on the Lincoln website IS outdated... They should 've changed it a while back! I have the older CD-based navigation system and it has worked fine for me.. I don't like the fact that the new system has the radio preset buttons integrated into the Nav screen instead of having separate dedicated buttons.. BUT I'd like the voice activated features of the new system as well as the CD changer behind the Nav screen instead of the passenger footwell.
I really do feel for you in losing your dealership. After being shabbily treated by Lincoln/Ford when our 2000 Lincoln Navigator broke down away from home (within warranty), my husband still wants the 2004 F-150, so we have been going to different dealerships to see if we can find one that would stand beside us when necessary.....this is a monster problem.....reinforces why car salesmen are not well thought of. So happy hunting to you.
To let you know, we have continued contacting Ford people with the same results--nothing they can do. But I do let people know, so maybe someday I will be rewarded for persistence.
I remember that disasterous trip you had. It leaves a bad taste, doesn't it?
Well, I decided this morning to go on the offensive, and drove into the Pontiac/GMC dealership that bought my Lincoln store, asked for the Sales Manager, and introduced myself as a potential retained customer. I was pleasantly surprised with the outcome. So we'll see.
If you really need room behind the third seat you should look at an EXCURSION - and the 6.0 Diesel has plenty of power with decent gas mileage. It also has the options you are looking for.
My navigator has the P275/65R18 tires have purchased chains that say they fit but don't then noticed that the manual says tire chains not recomended for these tires. Why and any idea on what to do?
I'm in the final stages of purchasing either a slightly used 2003 Navigator or a new 2004 Navigator. Has anyone had problems with the power running boards? Some dealerships are saying that they tend to break down frequently, freeze up in the snow, etc. Can anyone give me some insight into their likes/dislikes with the running boards. Many thanks.
work just fine.. granted, the closest thing I see to a snowflake in my town is in my freezer.. but they handle mud,heat, and humidity just fine. You can set them to stay "in" permanently if you don't like them and pull them out only when someone needs them. As far as them braking, you've got a 4/48 bumper to bumper warranty so you are covered just in case. Good luck!
I saw a monocromatic edition over the weekend. Not much different from a regular black Nav. Sure the front facia and side mouldings were now black and not dark grey but you had to look close to see much difference. If it was really important to you, a local body shop could hit your facia and mouldings with some paint for a lot less than what Lincoln charges for the "Monocromatic Edition" ($1200??).
I did see a Mercury Mountaineer "monocromatic edition" which had a much nicer treatment. I think that they used a glossy, wetter even, black paint and they also painted the running boards, rather than leave them coated in rubber. Whatever they did, it looked much more seamless than the Monocromatic Nav.
Interestingly, the Nav was a Lincoln buy back vehicle that had been repaired and then auctioned off at a Fomco dealers only auction in Livonia, MI. A Boston area Lincoln Mercury dealer now had this fully warranteed, ex-buy back vehicle. Anyone want to comment on buying one of these? I would imagine that Carfax would have a complex history that only Richard Nixon could explain with a straight face at resale time down the road.
Running Boards: I opted purposefully to not get the power running boards, not because I was afraid of them breaking, they seemed quite solid to me. I just thought they were an annoyance, and would do like gteach mostly, and keep them inoperative. So, why pay for them, was how I felt.
I'm surprised a buy back is being represented by a L/M dealer. And I would steer clear of that bad boy! It's possible the defect was repaired, but also possible you could be in for a long ride of bad road with that one.....
I also have an 04 Navigator w/Navigation system and rear DVD and wanted to get Sirius radio that could be controlled through the integrated sound system. My dealer said it could not be done so I called Lincoln after seeing a message on their website saying all 04 Navigators could get Sirius radio. They said the message on their website was incorrect and that I cannot get it with the navigation system. Let me know if you hear something different.
Hello all. I'm looking for a vehicle to: -comfortably haul family of 5 plus a bunch of gear with the 3rd seat down on looong vacation drives. -be a good 'soccer mom' vehicle. (3rd seat up) -tow about 5000 pounds occasionally, usually less than 200 miles, but sometimes more than 2000. -be useful off-road when I get the urge. I'm a photographer part time and spend a lot of time on dirt roads, fire roads and some "4x4 only" roads. In the past, I've used a Jeep Cherokee and a Chevy Tahoe for this. Both worked well, though the Jeep could go places the Tahoe couldn't, if only due to being smaller and more manueverable. I expect the Navigator will be at least as good as the Tahoe. They have similar 4x4 systems, electronically switchable 2WD/4HI/4LO although I seem to have read that the Navigator has on-demand (ie full-time) 4WD as well? -Ride comfortably, handle well (the Tahoe, a '97, had way too much body roll on turns) and, dare I say it, be reliable. (50,000 miles I put on Tahoe with almost 0 in maintanance.)
Over the weekend: I drove the F150 SuperCrew FX4 4x4. Nice. Lots of room in rear seat (front too). But, of course, no 3rd seat. Bed is only 5.5 feet with supercrew. Rides like a (smooth-riding) truck, if that makes sense. Overall, could work but w/o 3rd row is bit of a problem. Also, no $$$ dealing on the Supercrew - apparently they can't make enuf of em.
Next, I drove the Aviator and, while it fits 95% of what I want very well indeed, it felt a little cramped in the driver's seat and ride was a little bit choppy on rough roads. I loved the vehicle, but was a bit concerned that I would not be comfortable driving it for long periods.
I then drove an '03 Nav and was very impressed. Ride was better than the Avi, handling seemed near as good and was very comfy with gobs of space. I had not expected to like it (except for the gorgeous interior and the spoily features) based on my driving one of the first ones 5 or so years ago. I was not impressed with that. It felt like a truck, had body roll, felt ponderous on the road, just not up to snuff, for me. The 2003 I drove was like a totally different animal. I felt like I could drive it forever.
So, please comment if u have any on these aspects of the Navigator I mentioned. Also: -do you still love it after a year? -am I on-target with my favorable impressions of the ride and handling? (Can only tell so much on a 15 minute test drive). -anybody done any 4 wheeling? in 4LO? -reliability issues? -Gas mileage? (I know I shouldn't ask, but I need to know) -Does it really have full-time 4wd? Or was the reviewer out to lunch? (They often are, I find.) -Does the V8 'run out of steam' at highway speeds, as another reviewer wrote? -anyone have a young'un? Can u comment on the usefullness of the slide forward seat?
Allen, Please forward the email you sent George to me too! I'm currently in the market for either a Nav or Aviator, and have similar interests/concerns that George has . . . George and I have similar hobbies and needs!
What're you driving now that you'd be replacing with the SUV? I'd be replacing a Dodge RAM conversion van - you saw it when I was down at the Tempe show. So the Navigator would actually be a step down in size and (maybe?) a step up in gas mileage!
Here's hoping we can get some responses from some 2003 or 2004 Nav owners.
George
PS: Chris - They're really dealing right now on the 03s as you might guess. There's an Aviator I'd love to buy, but I'm thinking it just might be too small for my purposes. For you, it might be just right. Can't find an '03 Nav that is equipped like I want/need. They're almost all gone.
Chris - nothing earth shattering to my email. George thought I had both an Aviator and a Navigator but I only have the Aviator (and the LS). I love the Aviator but I think in George's situation the Navigator might fit him better (literally!). Email me if you have any specific questions. I love the Aviator but it's not perfect by any means.
As you both know, I REALLY, REALLY LOVE my LS, and there's no way I'd part with it now (unless, god forbid, it was totaled in an accident). However, if it were to be totaled, I'd get another LS in a heartbeat.
That said, my wife would like a replacement of her daily driver . . . a '00 Mazda MPV minivan. She insists on the higher seat placement, something that can seat more than 6 people on occasion, with the added benefit of added ground clearance . . . something minivans don't provide. Lots of opportunities for off-road adventures in Arizona, though we're not interested in serious rock crawling. Believe it or not, the Navigator has a tighter turning radius than the Aviator, plus it offers 4WD (w/LO) as opposed to AWD. The difference in drive type is not THAT important (to me), but worth mentioning.
and I'm actually more pleased with my 03 Gator than I was at the first. It has settled into a delightful driving experience. Has been very dependable, with just a couple of minor issues early on, easily fixed. It's quiet, tows great, handles extremely well. The IRS really helps with the body roll issue (there isn't any) and it feels sure footed off road as well. I have never run out of power, even towing 6,000 pounds. Have always been able to hold my speed. If I have a complaint, it's probably that it has had a few more squeaks and creaks than I had in my 99. Of course, it had none at all. It has the smoothest transmission I have ever experienced. Can't beat it for the ride, the room, and the power folding 3rd row seat absolutely takes it away from all the rest in my opinion. That's incredibly convenient. Some have had some problems with their early 03 Gators. But I haven't.
04 Navigators are now out with the THX sound system option. I know it is early, but I wonder if anyone out there has heard the new system and if they have any good/bad comments.
Also, the current Edmunds Navigator radio review is of the older system and here's hoping they can do a new radio review on the new THX system to hear what the pros think. Edmunds, how about doing a high-end radio square off (Levinson, THX, etc... are they just fancy names or do they actually blow your mind??)
Lincoln LS has had the THX system for about a year now and the reviews are very good. It won't shake the fillings out of the guy next to you but it's supposed to be a great sounding system. Whether or not you like it is an entirely subjective question only you can answer.
Basically they tailor the system to perfectly match the interior of the vehicle including adding structure or insulation and tuning the equalization. e.g. in the LS they had to strengthen the rear deck which holds the subwoofers.
I wonder what modifications they had to do to the Navi interior. I know they added a speaker on the front door pillars earlier this year. My only gripe with the current system is that the speaker on my door gets covered by my leg and produces muffled sounds. When I move my leg the difference is very noticeable.
I'd love to hear what that cool THX logo "sound" sounds like in a car. Some will remember that a few years back in THX equipped theaters that deep, rich, resonant "sound" would play before the movie with the caption.. "the audience is listening.." I'd love to test that out in a THX-certified Navi!!
Not sure about the Navigator system but I have a DVD with all of the THX demos and they sound fantastic in my new home theater!
Just to clarify - this is not a surround system. It doesn't do any 5.1 channel processing. It's only stereo (although it might have some DSP settings to simulate things). In the LS they kept the speaker positions the same (way too hard to change that) so don't look for any changes there.
I just purchased the 04 Navigator, traded in a 2001. Kinda sorry now!! It just doesn't feel as big inside. Husband is 6'1 and feels cramped driving, didn't in the 01, plus not sure I like the window controls, will take some getting used to. Biggest thing is no light under the hood, can't believe that. I thought all cars especially one this expensive would have that. I also miss the storage beside the seats too and can hardly get my hand between the seat and the middle piece. The drive is great though and very smooth, better than the 01 and my son loves the DVD player and auto. running boards.
I went from a 2000 into an 03 and I like the new one MUCH better. The pre 03's were just fancy expeditions.. IMO this one is way more differentiated and luxurious inside.
I've heard others comment on how the new ones feel smaller on the inside as well, but I'm 6'4 200lbs + and I feel great inside this beast.
Like you, I also had to get used to the new storage spaces but remember, there are folding pockets on the doors to hold stuff.
I didn't know about the hood light.. I open the hood once in a blue moon to add washer fluid and leave the rest to my complimentary "factory-trained quality care service representatives"
The window controls do take some getting used to (why they're not on the doors I'll never understand).. but mostly I just wish they were all "auto down" instead of just the driver's window.
Overall Lincoln's been making an effort to keep me interested in their products with better quality, more luxurious interiors, and enough toys and gadgets to keep me busy.
By the way, are the 2004's still coming with 3 years complimentary maintenance or did they bring it down to one year?
I went from a 99 Gator to an 03, and understand most of what you're saying. Indeed, it took a little while to get used to the difference, but shortly, it became very comfy, and the gives more than compensate for the takes, IMO. I am finally used to the window buttons, (agree with gteach, that a power up & down all around would be nice, if anybody's listening up there) and finally found the seat position I am used to. I have never noticed the hood light missing, for same reasons as gteach stated. What do you do under there, Navig? Checking your nails for dirt after cleaning the fuel injectors? (He He) The performance of the truck, ride, cornering, handling, steering and interior design more than make up for the lack of side pockets in the console, which while handy, and I do miss them, can be done without. I learned to. You'll like it, give it a week or two.
I think if you take the leap and get the Navi you will not regret it. I've had mine for just about a year and still love driving it. To answer some of the questions you had..
Gas mileage is horrible (I'm getting around 11 mpg) if gas is something you watch, you'll go crazy with this fella.
Ride and handling is luxury car-like. This is a quiet, refined beast. My only gripe is that at speeds over 70 my steering wheel jiggles a tiny bit. I haven't made a big deal to get this fixed - yet.
The slide-forward second row seat is a GREAT feature.. my two year old loves it because when pulled up fully she's basically sitting in between my wife and I. The only problem is that she tends to kick the center console. This is a GREAT truck for a growing family -- I have sat 6 adults and two car seats in this vehicle with plenty of comfort -- that third row is a modern marvel.
The V8 gives me PLENTY of power.. some say they want more, but when I hit the accelerator, she responds very crisply. As for 4x4 comments - I live in Flat Florida and admit to never climbing anything higher than the sidewalk curb on occasion. I bought this baby for the roominess and luxury features - not for its rock climbing ability. I'm sure someone else will chime in to give you feedback on the 4x4 abilities.
Reliability issues and misc. annoying things: So far I've only had the Navi for a year and it has given me ZERO problems AFTER a bumpy start. You see, a "check suspension" warning caused a three/four day dealer stay when I first got the vehicle. Also, the moldings on the outside of the doors have a tendency on some trucks to rattle a bit at high speeds -- the dealer fixed that quickly and I'm hoping it is not an issue on the '04's. Also, brake dust can be VERY annoying on this truck. I've got nice chrome wheels that have to be cleaned very often because the black soot builds up quickly on them. I also hear that a "fix" will be available for those who complain -- but no confirmation on that yet.
Overall though, I'd rate the truck an 8 out of ten. Also remember, you get a 4 year,48K mile bumper to bumper warranty so any problems that creep up will be corrected -- plus if you have a good dealership you'll get so pampered when you take the truck in you'll actually enjoy (sort of) getting service done.
I hope some of my ramblings have helped..Good luck on your search!!
you'll love this one..... Last service I went in for, I asked about the brake dust, just to get it on the record. The advisor gave me a bs answer about how the aerodynamics of the front wheels are different than the back wheels, driving the brake dust to the outside of the wheels!!! Good one, huh? I just shake my head......
what some service reps come up with sometimes! This has to be a design issue or a brake pad defect.. my 2000 gator never had this dust problem. I've also seen tons of 2003+ expy's with front wheels so black with soot you'd swear that it had lost a rim!
If they won't correct the problem I might take my service advisor up on his offer... If I buy the Kleenwheel brake covers and bring them in, they'll install them free during my next service visit and guarantee them for the duration of the factory warranty. I can't tell you how many times the rest of my truck is gleaming -- except those front chrome wheels!
"The advisor gave me a bs answer about how the aerodynamics of the front wheels are different than the back wheels, driving the brake dust to the outside of the wheels!!! Good one, huh? I just shake my head......"
WOW, that was a creative one on his part. I wouldn't have been able to control my laughter. Unfortunately on my part, I know aerodynamics doesn't play the part, and it would have let to a 10 minute preaching conference with any advisor saying such.
I went from a 2000 to a 2003 Gator and would also give it an 8 of 10. On the minus list I would have to add the mirror problems and a noisy clock. I hate that clock. They fixed my high speed vibration problem with a new tire. I still haven't gotten use to the window controls, (I rented an Expo for two weeks on vacation which set me back further) and I miss the old console with its storage. I do love the fold flat 3rd. row seat and probably would miss all the new power gadgets if they took them away. Still happy with my purchase and will get another in three years (if they can fix the clock).
It's not rocket science, folks. Brake dust only comes from one place - the brake pads. Some pads produce much more dust than others. The Lincoln LS sport pads are atrocious. Call Porterfield and see if they have R4S pads for the Navigator. That will get rid of 95% of your brake dust and take 15 feet off your stopping distances to boot.
Funny about the clock -- it got to me at first too with that "grrrr" sound it makes when the minute hand moves.. but now I NEVER hear it unless I'm paying close attention.
Also,
Did your truck come with Michelin Cross Terrains? Also, was your vibration clearly noticeable (at what speeds??) to the technicians? As I mentioned earlier, I have a very slight vibration at high speeds that while annoying, is probably what they'll call "normal for a big suv". It is most noticeable on long Interstate stretches going 70 mph +. The tires were balanced, aligned, etc. but my jiggle keeps on. Thanks!
? Well, I guess nothing's perfect. Navigator sure seems to look and drive like a 9.5/10 to me! :>)
Course, I didn't pay for the gas in the one I test drove. gteach - you said 11mpg. Can I assume that's around town and freeway driving will be around the 16 on the estimate? Also, I know from experience that after 5 to 10K miles, the gas mileage will probably improve.
Steve - thanks for the data. Guess they just don't build analog clocks like they used to! Out of practive probably.
I do mostly city driving with once-a-week weekend highway trips (20-30 miles) to visit parents, in-laws,etc. 11mpg is what the computer tells me most of the time --not sure how accurate it is anyways.
As for my 8 out of ten rating for the navi, that is actually quite good in my book... 10 would be my holy grail "perfection" vehicle that I have never found, probably never will, and I'm not even sure why it will be a ten.. it'll just "feel" like a 10!
A 9 would equal a vehicle that I loved so much I could never see myself parting with (never had that feeling either).. and an 8, well, is an exciting and pampering vehicle that has great features, is very functional for my needs, drives very nicely but after a few years I 'll more than likely dump it for a newer model or another brand.
Just wondering if anyone has had my elusive "10" experience with a car yet!!
Steve00: You gotta get over that clock man! Actually, I like the little grunt it makes. Sounds techy to me. I like it a lot better than the squeak from the middle seat, 2nd row.
Hey: I have 11,000 miles, and still get 12.5 in the city. 16 is about right for the highway, IMO.
gteach: A tire rotation took out my jiggle, so it was the tire.
By your scale, gteach, my 84 Thunderbird was a 10. Trouble free, and a joy to drive every day. I kept it 5 years, a record for me, and would have kept it longer, had my business partner not put his elbow through the console breaking it. (He's a big guy). I've had several 9's though, that were only 9's because I did dump them for a newer model in a couple of years.
Had some time to kill and just encountered the seemingly 1,000th problem with the Nav. Thought I would investigate and found others with gripes!
Some observations that may help:
Hear the 04 models have bumper to bumper scaled back to one year. I will tell you an 03 needs brakes at 17K and the list goes on. Buy the 03! Save the headache and money!
The plastic rattling is the side plastic door panels. Have glued to the side of the door.
Anybody loose their brakes? No? Ya better check your master cylinder. Leaks at the lines. Then fails ever so slowly.
How about your suspension? Failed yet? Type in "Lincoln suspension" on a browser. See what ya get. A whole cottage industry just dealing in air suspension parts! Kinda makes you wonder. At 80 MPH my system decided to do this kneeling thing. Going to the shop tommrow.
Having trouble with your Nav? In the shop over and over? Press for an extended warranty. Yes, the bumper to bumper type. They will give it and you should get it!
Check your oil lately? Newer engine will burn. Be sure to check.
If in your travels the truck starts to feel as if it is riding rough, it is not your imagination! The suspension is acting up! The dealer will call you a nut until the system fails. You will be cured at this point!
For you lease people. I do not suggest leasing for any longer than the bumper to bumper period. You will be sorry. Nothing hurts more than paying to fix a rental!
Everyone complains about the gas mileage. Strikes me as unusual. What did you expect? What I did not expect is the huge increase in insurance costs. I'll be the one walking away in many cases. Oh well.
Suggestion: If your driving this everday and the gas is killing you. Buy a second car. I did and it actually saved me money based on 30K per year! Not much less but my goal was remaining low key. An issue in my field.
I have endured at a minimum 60 days of "out of service" during my ownership and have found the lemon law would not be of much use. The truck would need to be dead for it to make sense. If you have problems and need another for advise. Ask me. Chances are I have been through it. Good luck...
eblair1 - the only issue I've had similar to you is the door rattling. Other than that, you seem to be a bitter man/woman who has buyer's remorse.
To all - do NOT take eblair's experience as gospel. I've been thrilled with the perfomance of my '03 (had it since April '03), have had absolutely NO issues (other than the rattling).
The change from 03 to 04 was for the free scheduled maintenance (03 - 3 years, 04 - 1 year). This was an across the board change for all Lincolns. The 4 yr/50K mile bumper to bumper warranty was not changed.
Well, despite the earlier message from eblair1 (Any relation to Linda Blair? - Call an exorcist for that Navigator!!) I'm just about to pick up an '04! Somebody please help me! (Send money for starters:>)
ANyway, bringing my trade vehicle in in the AM (a Dodge conversion van in good shape with 70K miles) and if they'll give me a decent trade for it, I'm gonna do it.
Found what I want at a dealer not too far far away: 2004 Ultimate w/HD Trailer, Chrome wheels and rear DVD. Merlot/Parchment. Sorta wish it had Nav, but that's another $3000. But if I do decide I gotta have it, they've got another Merlot Ultimate with the Nav. Though it's the grey interior. Haven't seen that yet, and I've already got grey in my Autumn Red LS, so I think Parchment is what I want this time. What say you?
Comments
http://www.boston.com/yourlife/home/articles/2003/11/06/with_tv_s- o_loud_no_ones_listening/
Leaving the TV on when nobody is watching is equivalent to second hand smoke?
Gimme a break.
To let you know, we have continued contacting Ford people with the same results--nothing they can do. But I do let people know, so maybe someday I will be rewarded for persistence.
Well, I decided this morning to go on the offensive, and drove into the Pontiac/GMC dealership that bought my Lincoln store, asked for the Sales Manager, and introduced myself as a potential retained customer. I was pleasantly surprised with the outcome. So we'll see.
I did see a Mercury Mountaineer "monocromatic edition" which had a much nicer treatment. I think that they used a glossy, wetter even, black paint and they also painted the running boards, rather than leave them coated in rubber. Whatever they did, it looked much more seamless than the Monocromatic Nav.
Interestingly, the Nav was a Lincoln buy back vehicle that had been repaired and then auctioned off at a Fomco dealers only auction in Livonia, MI. A Boston area Lincoln Mercury dealer now had this fully warranteed, ex-buy back vehicle. Anyone want to comment on buying one of these? I would imagine that Carfax would have a complex history that only Richard Nixon could explain with a straight face at resale time down the road.
I'm surprised a buy back is being represented by a L/M dealer. And I would steer clear of that bad boy! It's possible the defect was repaired, but also possible you could be in for a long ride of bad road with that one.....
Thanks
-comfortably haul family of 5 plus a bunch of gear with the 3rd seat down on looong vacation drives.
-be a good 'soccer mom' vehicle. (3rd seat up)
-tow about 5000 pounds occasionally, usually less than 200 miles, but sometimes more than 2000.
-be useful off-road when I get the urge. I'm a photographer part time and spend a lot of time on dirt roads, fire roads and some "4x4 only" roads. In the past, I've used a Jeep Cherokee and a Chevy Tahoe for this. Both worked well, though the Jeep could go places the Tahoe couldn't, if only due to being smaller and more manueverable. I expect the Navigator will be at least as good as the Tahoe. They have similar 4x4 systems, electronically switchable 2WD/4HI/4LO although I seem to have read that the Navigator has on-demand (ie full-time) 4WD as well?
-Ride comfortably, handle well (the Tahoe, a '97, had way too much body roll on turns) and, dare I say it, be reliable. (50,000 miles I put on Tahoe with almost 0 in maintanance.)
Over the weekend:
I drove the F150 SuperCrew FX4 4x4. Nice. Lots of room in rear seat (front too). But, of course, no 3rd seat. Bed is only 5.5 feet with supercrew. Rides like a (smooth-riding) truck, if that makes sense. Overall, could work but w/o 3rd row is bit of a problem. Also, no $$$ dealing on the Supercrew - apparently they can't make enuf of em.
Next, I drove the Aviator and, while it fits 95% of what I want very well indeed, it felt a little cramped in the driver's seat and ride was a little bit choppy on rough roads. I loved the vehicle, but was a bit concerned that I would not be comfortable driving it for long periods.
I then drove an '03 Nav and was very impressed. Ride was better than the Avi, handling seemed near as good and was very comfy with gobs of space. I had not expected to like it (except for the gorgeous interior and the spoily features) based on my driving one of the first ones 5 or so years ago. I was not impressed with that. It felt like a truck, had body roll, felt ponderous on the road, just not up to snuff, for me. The 2003 I drove was like a totally different animal. I felt like I could drive it forever.
So, please comment if u have any on these aspects of the Navigator I mentioned. Also:
-do you still love it after a year?
-am I on-target with my favorable impressions of the ride and handling? (Can only tell so much on a 15 minute test drive).
-anybody done any 4 wheeling? in 4LO?
-reliability issues?
-Gas mileage? (I know I shouldn't ask, but I need to know)
-Does it really have full-time 4wd? Or was the reviewer out to lunch? (They often are, I find.)
-Does the V8 'run out of steam' at highway speeds, as another reviewer wrote?
-anyone have a young'un? Can u comment on the usefullness of the slide forward seat?
TIA for any opinions/facts to come.
George
Need more info though! more more ...
What're you driving now that you'd be replacing with the SUV? I'd be replacing a Dodge RAM conversion van - you saw it when I was down at the Tempe show. So the Navigator would actually be a step down in size and (maybe?) a step up in gas mileage!
Here's hoping we can get some responses from some 2003 or 2004 Nav owners.
George
PS: Chris - They're really dealing right now on the 03s as you might guess. There's an Aviator I'd love to buy, but I'm thinking it just might be too small for my purposes. For you, it might be just right. Can't find an '03 Nav that is equipped like I want/need. They're almost all gone.
BTW, if specific questions do get answered re Aviator, I'd love to be copied. Or post here. Maybe here isn't right for Avi ?s though.
G
As you both know, I REALLY, REALLY LOVE my LS, and there's no way I'd part with it now (unless, god forbid, it was totaled in an accident). However, if it were to be totaled, I'd get another LS in a heartbeat.
That said, my wife would like a replacement of her daily driver . . . a '00 Mazda MPV minivan. She insists on the higher seat placement, something that can seat more than 6 people on occasion, with the added benefit of added ground clearance . . . something minivans don't provide. Lots of opportunities for off-road adventures in Arizona, though we're not interested in serious rock crawling. Believe it or not, the Navigator has a tighter turning radius than the Aviator, plus it offers 4WD (w/LO) as opposed to AWD. The difference in drive type is not THAT important (to me), but worth mentioning.
Also, the current Edmunds Navigator radio review is of the older system and here's hoping they can do a new radio review on the new THX system to hear what the pros think. Edmunds, how about doing a high-end radio square off (Levinson, THX, etc... are they just fancy names or do they actually blow your mind??)
Basically they tailor the system to perfectly match the interior of the vehicle including adding structure or insulation and tuning the equalization. e.g. in the LS they had to strengthen the rear deck which holds the subwoofers.
I'd love to hear what that cool THX logo "sound" sounds like in a car. Some will remember that a few years back in THX equipped theaters that deep, rich, resonant "sound" would play before the movie with the caption.. "the audience is listening.." I'd love to test that out in a THX-certified Navi!!
Just to clarify - this is not a surround system. It doesn't do any 5.1 channel processing. It's only stereo (although it might have some DSP settings to simulate things). In the LS they kept the speaker positions the same (way too hard to change that) so don't look for any changes there.
I've heard others comment on how the new ones feel smaller on the inside as well, but I'm 6'4 200lbs + and I feel great inside this beast.
Like you, I also had to get used to the new storage spaces but remember, there are folding pockets on the doors to hold stuff.
I didn't know about the hood light.. I open the hood once in a blue moon to add washer fluid and leave the rest to my complimentary "factory-trained quality care service representatives"
The window controls do take some getting used to (why they're not on the doors I'll never understand).. but mostly I just wish they were all "auto down" instead of just the driver's window.
Overall Lincoln's been making an effort to keep me interested in their products with better quality, more luxurious interiors, and enough toys and gadgets to keep me busy.
By the way, are the 2004's still coming with 3 years complimentary maintenance or did they bring it down to one year?
Happy driving and thanks!
Now, can u address any of my questions/comments in post 834?
I think if you take the leap and get the Navi you will not regret it. I've had mine for just about a year and still love driving it. To answer some of the questions you had..
Gas mileage is horrible (I'm getting around 11 mpg) if gas is something you watch, you'll go crazy with this fella.
Ride and handling is luxury car-like. This is a quiet, refined beast. My only gripe is that at speeds over 70 my steering wheel jiggles a tiny bit. I haven't made a big deal to get this fixed - yet.
The slide-forward second row seat is a GREAT feature.. my two year old loves it because when pulled up fully she's basically sitting in between my wife and I. The only problem is that she tends to kick the center console. This is a GREAT truck for a growing family -- I have sat 6 adults and two car seats in this vehicle with plenty of comfort -- that third row is a modern marvel.
The V8 gives me PLENTY of power.. some say they want more, but when I hit the accelerator, she responds very crisply. As for 4x4 comments - I live in Flat Florida and admit to never climbing anything higher than the sidewalk curb on occasion. I bought this baby for the roominess and luxury features - not for its rock climbing ability. I'm sure someone else will chime in to give you feedback on the 4x4 abilities.
Reliability issues and misc. annoying things:
So far I've only had the Navi for a year and it has given me ZERO problems AFTER a bumpy start. You see, a "check suspension" warning caused a three/four day dealer stay when I first got the vehicle. Also, the moldings on the outside of the doors have a tendency on some trucks to rattle a bit at high speeds -- the dealer fixed that quickly and I'm hoping it is not an issue on the '04's. Also, brake dust can be VERY annoying on this truck. I've got nice chrome wheels that have to be cleaned very often because the black soot builds up quickly on them. I also hear that a "fix" will be available for those who complain -- but no confirmation on that yet.
Overall though, I'd rate the truck an 8 out of ten. Also remember, you get a 4 year,48K mile bumper to bumper warranty so any problems that creep up will be corrected -- plus if you have a good dealership you'll get so pampered when you take the truck in you'll actually enjoy (sort of) getting service done.
I hope some of my ramblings have helped..Good luck on your search!!
If they won't correct the problem I might take my service advisor up on his offer... If I buy the Kleenwheel brake covers and bring them in, they'll install them free during my next service visit and guarantee them for the duration of the factory warranty. I can't tell you how many times the rest of my truck is gleaming -- except those front chrome wheels!
WOW, that was a creative one on his part. I wouldn't have been able to control my laughter. Unfortunately on my part, I know aerodynamics doesn't play the part, and it would have let to a 10 minute preaching conference with any advisor saying such.
Also,
Did your truck come with Michelin Cross Terrains? Also, was your vibration clearly noticeable (at what speeds??) to the technicians? As I mentioned earlier, I have a very slight vibration at high speeds that while annoying, is probably what they'll call "normal for a big suv". It is most noticeable on long Interstate stretches going 70 mph +. The tires were balanced, aligned, etc. but my jiggle keeps on. Thanks!
Course, I didn't pay for the gas in the one I test drove. gteach - you said 11mpg. Can I assume that's around town and freeway driving will be around the 16 on the estimate? Also, I know from experience that after 5 to 10K miles, the gas mileage will probably improve.
Steve - thanks for the data. Guess they just don't build analog clocks like they used to! Out of practive probably.
As for my 8 out of ten rating for the navi, that is actually quite good in my book... 10 would be my holy grail "perfection" vehicle that I have never found, probably never will, and I'm not even sure why it will be a ten.. it'll just "feel" like a 10!
A 9 would equal a vehicle that I loved so much I could never see myself parting with (never had that feeling either).. and an 8, well, is an exciting and pampering vehicle that has great features, is very functional for my needs, drives very nicely but after a few years I 'll more than likely dump it for a newer model or another brand.
Just wondering if anyone has had my elusive "10" experience with a car yet!!
Hey: I have 11,000 miles, and still get 12.5 in the city. 16 is about right for the highway, IMO.
gteach: A tire rotation took out my jiggle, so it was the tire.
http://www.porterfield-brakes.com/
They don't list every application on the web - call and ask if you don't see the Navigator. You want the R4S street pads.
Some observations that may help:
Hear the 04 models have bumper to bumper scaled back to one year. I will tell you an 03 needs brakes at 17K and the list goes on. Buy the 03! Save the headache and money!
The plastic rattling is the side plastic door panels. Have glued to the side of the door.
Anybody loose their brakes? No? Ya better check your master cylinder. Leaks at the lines. Then fails ever so slowly.
How about your suspension? Failed yet? Type in "Lincoln suspension" on a browser. See what ya get. A whole cottage industry just dealing in air suspension parts! Kinda makes you wonder. At 80 MPH my system decided to do this kneeling thing. Going to the shop tommrow.
Having trouble with your Nav? In the shop over and over? Press for an extended warranty. Yes, the bumper to bumper type. They will give it and you should get it!
Check your oil lately? Newer engine will burn. Be sure to check.
If in your travels the truck starts to feel as if it is riding rough, it is not your imagination! The suspension is acting up! The dealer will call you a nut until the system fails. You will be cured at this point!
For you lease people. I do not suggest leasing for any longer than the bumper to bumper period. You will be sorry. Nothing hurts more than paying to fix a rental!
Everyone complains about the gas mileage. Strikes me as unusual. What did you expect? What I did not expect is the huge increase in insurance costs. I'll be the one walking away in many cases. Oh well.
Suggestion: If your driving this everday and the gas is killing you. Buy a second car. I did and it actually saved me money based on 30K per year! Not much less but my goal was remaining low key. An issue in my field.
I have endured at a minimum 60 days of "out of service" during my ownership and have found the lemon law would not be of much use. The truck would need to be dead for it to make sense. If you have problems and need another for advise. Ask me. Chances are I have been through it. Good luck...
To all - do NOT take eblair's experience as gospel. I've been thrilled with the perfomance of my '03 (had it since April '03), have had absolutely NO issues (other than the rattling).
ANyway, bringing my trade vehicle in in the AM (a Dodge conversion van in good shape with 70K miles) and if they'll give me a decent trade for it, I'm gonna do it.
Found what I want at a dealer not too far far away: 2004 Ultimate w/HD Trailer, Chrome wheels and rear DVD. Merlot/Parchment. Sorta wish it had Nav, but that's another $3000. But if I do decide I gotta have it, they've got another Merlot Ultimate with the Nav. Though it's the grey interior. Haven't seen that yet, and I've already got grey in my Autumn Red LS, so I think Parchment is what I want this time. What say you?