Whenever I make a compelling argument, you end up calling it "spin". I think that sucks. I'm not spinning anything. I'm keeping a perspective that agrees with many others, including industry critics as well.
Sure, there is credit to give the RX, but I'm not about to say it's a big winner just because it gets 30 MPG. It's still expensive, and ugly, and frankly, it handles poorly... worse than some of the other SUVs, so it's not an excuse to say its just an SUV and it therefore doesn't matter. It does matter.
If all the credit that it gets is that it is functional and reliable... then I'm not impressed. Sorry. But that's no spin.
It all reminds me of the big deal some gave the GS hybrid... and I'm not impressed with that vehicle either.
Are you right when you say I hate it? Well... in that regard you are going overboard, but I must admit you are pretty close.
I'd wager if Dewey tested a CR-V, He might be pleasantly surprised at the driving dynamics of this great little CUV. Road feel is fantastic and the suspension is top notch AFAIC.
Do not interpret this to mean that the CR-V comes up short in the competence department. Renewed from top to bottom last year, Honda's cute ute is tightly wrapped, handsomely appointed, versatile, stylish, and by the standards of this popular class, exceptionally nimble.
Consistent with Honda design code, the CR-V is a model of ergonomic efficiency—controls are well marked, well placed, easy to locate, and easy to use. There are numerous nooks and small bins for stowing stuff, another Honda hallmark.
Perhaps not an RX450, but it's a new luxury environment, right? I know its a strectch...
As you know, I have raved about this cool little SUV from the beginning. That article is dead on.
However, if Dewey is suddenly going for the Lexus fluff that he formerly dissed, so be it. I could understand it if it were an LS, but in an RX, I think it's all a total waste.
If there is any "spin" being placed on this vehicle, it's spinning it to be better than it really is. It's really not that much more than a poor-handling strange-looking SUV with a comfortable Lexus interior. Heck, it's not any real technological wonder, either. Nor has it broken any real ground in the styling department, and it's handling isn't even average. In fact, it's looks are essentially the same old thing, but with a little twist.
How can anyone sensationalize this vehicle without putting loads of spin on it? :confuse:
I promised Charlie I will check it out, and I will TRY (honest) to keep an open mind, although it will be hard regarding this RX. I have done well in being open-minded this past year or two, so who knows... maybe I'll bring one home for the wife. :surprise:
That is damning with faint praise, IMHO. I think the CRV has gotten progressively less attractive with each generation. Not that the RAV4 is a winner, nor the Escape or Equinox. Come to think of it, I don't find any of the "sport-cutes" attractive.
I am much happier with the Legacy wagon, with its manual transmission, AWD, decent power and decent fuel economy. It has room in the back for a long weekend with a spouse, baby, and dog, it can tote 2700 lbs of trailer (great for antiques or CL finds).
I have no need for a high center of gravity, poorer handling, less fun to drive glorified station wagon or psuedo truck to compensate for manhood driving a wagon. Its likely the next family truxster will have *gasp* sliding doors. I can't wait...no more door dings from parking in the garage, no more bending around the door with an infant seat or loading the toddler seat, and room in the back for a weekend of gear.
I've driven it, my Uncle owns it, to me it feels like an Elephant!
Lexus is surprisingly behind the times on this issue. Saab - desperate, dying Saab - is going to have a compact SUV before they will (assuming Lexus ever offers one). Their only three-row offerings are dinosaurs, no match for a GL or Q7.
We buy SUVs because we need them - not because we like them. So of what earthly use is an unreliable SUV?
If there was a well executed Japanese compact lux ute, I'd buy it. There isn't one. The EX35 comes close, but they blew it with the rear seats. The Q5 seems like the most complete product in the class, and I'm willing to take the reliability risk because of that. If it turns out to be a lemon, then we wont buy another.
Let's not forget that buying Japanese isn't a guarantee that you're going to get a perfect car that will be trouble free for 200K miles. Early RL buyers were probably very surprised when their fancy new AWD systems locked up, and the electronics fizzled out. GS300 AWD owners were also in for a rude awakening that Lexus can and does occasionally drop the ball in quality. I won't even get into Acura's grenading transmissions from a few years back.
I am much happier with the Legacy wagon, with its manual transmission, AWD, decent power and decent fuel economy.
Well said. A wagon can handle just about anything that a mid-sized SUV might be asked to do while providing more driving pleasure & better fuel economy. The only compelling reason to buy an SUV instead of a wagon is to get that high seating position that's so important to 30-something mothers.
One of my friends has an '08 BMW 535xi wagon with, God bless him, a stick. I've driven it several times & would much rather have it than any SUV in that price range. (Come to think of it, is any mid-luxe SUV available with a stick?) I'm even playing with the idea of buying it as a CPO when he turns it in at the end of next year.
If there was a well executed Japanese compact lux ute, I'd buy it. There isn't one. The EX35 comes close, but they blew it with the rear seats.
Apparently Infiniti mistakenly assumed that the EX would appeal to empty nester baby boomers for whom rear leg room wouldn't be an issue. I guess that Infiniti figured that the rear seats would be folded down most of the time.
Supposedly this problem will be fixed somehow in the 2010 EX, but I'll believe that when I see it. Another problem with the EX is its rather poor fuel economy, for which the 5-speed transmission is partly to blame. If Infiniti can squeeze the 7-speed into the G, it should be able to do the same with the EX. That might help.
The Q5 seems like the most complete product in the class, and I'm willing to take the reliability risk because of that.
Good luck. For your sake, I hope the the Q5 is better than the Q7.
Let's not forget that buying Japanese isn't a guarantee that you're going to get a perfect car that will be trouble free for 200K miles.
Agreed, but if you've convinced yourself that you simply must have an SUV, then buying Japanese stacks the odds in your favor.
Wow! I don't know where to start Tag. Tell us how you really feel about the new RX. At least you are being honest and not hiding behind the bush.
We obviously disagree wholeheartedly in this case. I love just about everything about the new RX as I stated before, and the last time I checked, I am a man . Some of you folks think it is the ugliest vehicle in the history of the auto industry. I think that cannot be further from the truth in my opinion. I guess the old saying "beauty is in the eye of the beholder", has never been so true as it is with the posters on this forum. Until this evening when I read all this stuff about the RX, I didn't really care whether or not Dewey went with the Prius or the RX450h. But now, I really do hope that he goes with the RX450h just to make all you RX haters sick .
Tag, you promised me that you will test drive the new RX so I will hold you to it.
Now I have to read again some of the "good" posts from Lou about the new RX450h. BTW, where did Lou get these revised EPA numbers? Did he indicate so on his post? Anyway, that is exciting news.
Another problem with the EX is its rather poor fuel economy, for which the 5-speed transmission is partly to blame. If Infiniti can squeeze the 7-speed into the G, it should be able to do the same with the EX. That might help.
Indeed, although the EX certainly isn't alone in that regard. Nearly all of the compact lux utes seem to get the same pathetic 16mpg. The exceptions are the X3 and the Q5. A RAV4 based Lexus would probably be the most efficient in class, but for some reason Toyota can't seem to figure out whether they should build it. Seems like a complete no-brainer to me.
I'm not too worried about the Q5. The Q7 shares a lot with the Toureg and Cayenne - not paragons of reliability and quality. The Q5 borrows heavily from the A4, which has been pretty good lately.
And, whatever the RX is or isn't in our collective eye, it certainly has been one thing consistently: A sales success. For this, Toyota thanks you.
Looking forward to my free wash, wrap sandwich and cookie on Saturday! I only wish it wasn't at the Lexus dealer as there are just no truly interesting new cars to play with after I dine! :shades:
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
Changing the subject laurasdada, what do you think about the Patriots trade of Cassel and Vrabel for pick #33 (I think it's 33) on this years draft? I think the Pats had no other choice. In Belichick I trust, no matter what. I really hated to see Vrabel go though. I wonder if it was a salary cap issue. Now they have all kinds of room to improve the defense.
I am glad you like the RX. Really. I think everyone should feel good about their vehicles.
I know you don't take any of it personal... because it hasn't been directed as such. I openly admit I've never liked the RX, and yes, I will check out the new one... one of these days.
I think there is nothing wrong with liking and disliking certain vehicles more emphatically than others. Thanks for keeping a level head and staying cool while I unloaded on the RX.
I hope Dewey avoids it like the plague... LOL... but I can understand how the capability in the snow can appeal to him, as well as get the hybrid value in Canada that we don't get here. I will wish him well with any vehicle he acquires, and I also hope you enjoy your new RX when it arrives.
Lou, where are you? Where did you get this new information? This is good news for some of us. We will very likely take the RX450h on some long trips now that it is so much more fuel efficient than the RX400h. In very cold weather (zero to 20 degrees), the 400h averages about 18-19 mpg. That really stinks for a hybrid.
As matter of fact, I will be driving the RX400h for the next couple days since my IS is at the dealership for the recall. The FE for my commute today between home and work is 24 mpg with 80% local and 20% highway.
I looked all over Edmunds, but I could not find it on my own. I am willing to bet that if one uses the ECO drive option on the RX450h in city driving, it will get more than 36 mpg. When we first got the RX400h in the spring of 2005, I was able to get 40 mpg driving for about 28 miles (without turning off the engine) in the city and going about 30-35 mph most of the time. I was pretty excited about that at that time, but as I quickly learned that was not at all realistic. In reality, one usually makes stops and turns off the engine in the city after usually driving for a few miles. That absolutely kills the gas mileage. In the new RX450h that will not be the case any more (at least not much) since it re-circulates the exhaust gases and keeps to engine warm (just like the Prius). If I was able to get 40mpg on the RX400h, I wonder what I will get taking the same route under the same (atmospheric conditions (temperatures in the 70s) with the RX450h? It will certainly be interesting and fun to test.
I also never read that review, which is fairly positive, with exception that the vehicle is largely similar looking to the 400h, bloated in weight, and only handles very well when going straight line.
Charlie... Interesting vehicle, but, other than the good MPGs, what's the point? What am I missing?
This sounds like a winner. Certainly enough power and some economy to boot!
Earlier today at the Geneva Motor Show, Infiniti officially unveiled its new hybrid-powertrain concept car, the Essence. Embodying what Infiniti says is the essence of its brand, the rear-wheel-drive sports coupe is designed to celebrate Infiniti’s past, while show off some new technologies.
Under its svelte bodywork, the Essence is home to Infiniti’s first-ever hybrid powertrain, a 434-horsepower twin-turbo 3.7-liter V6 that teams up with a slim, disc-shaped “3D” 158-horsepower electric engine for a combined 592-horsepower.
The electric assist motor has about twice the torque of a conventional motor thanks to a layout that Infiniti says optimizes the electromagnetic coils and permanent magnets.
Inside, the Essence features custom luggage by Louis Vuitton, and a driver-focused asymmetrical cabin layout. The driver’s side of the cabin features a black “theme,” while the passenger’s side features an “earthy red theme.”
The Essence’s exterior features some familiar design cues, but it also debuts the automaker’s new “Dynamic Adekaka” design language based on Japanese traditions. A long hood and short rear deck make the Essence look more like a sports car of the past, at least proportionally, while sharp lines and complex surfacing feature details based on Japanese cultural pieces, like the “kanzashi” hairpin worn by women wearing kimonos.
First of all the handling for the RX350 was very good ac,cording to the review, but for some reason, they did not like the handling of the RX450h when changing direction (curves). I don't understand why there would be such a big difference, but whatever. I have never been one who really cares much about handling as long as it is not awful. Evidently the reason for the greater weight is because they built this version with added safety in mind according the the Lexus rep who was quoted on the RX350 review.
I disagree about its looks somewhat from the review. I really think that the new RX is better looking than the old RX. The review basically liked everything about it except for the handling when turning. I agree with the reviewer that the Remote Touch controlling the navigation is very easy and fun to use.
I wonder what the tone of the review would be if it were written now with the revised and improved EPA figures.
As far as your question "what am I missing" is concerned, you need to test drive it and then come back to us and report your honest assessment. I really think you will be pleasantly surprised just as Dewey was. The car is quiet, comfortable, full of useful high tech features, and in my opinion, good looking.
Thanks Charlie. I really do need to check it out closely... and I will. Obviously there is something to it, or else you and Dewey wouldn't have the positive impression that you do.
Handling is important to me, but I don't expect more than is reasonable from an SUV. The MDX's handling has been praised. I will drive the new MDX as a comparison to the RX. And, I will compare them overall... as I think the MDX is a far superior vehicle, but I want to discover the truth first hand.
I know the driving dynamics will be better in any smaller or lighter vehicle than a Lexus RX450h. I got enough driving dynamics in our garage in the form of the BMW 530xi Touring . This BMW makes a MDX or in fact any SUV look pathetic in terms of driving dynamics.
But a Lexus RX450 is not about driving dynamic and it never was. Not every vehicle I own has to have driving dynamic pretensions in the form of an SUV.
If my criteria was driving dynamics I would keep my BMW 335i and say the heck with its aggravations. But unfortuantely I am not that desperate for a performance car.
I am picking such a vehicle for my own personal reasons. Great on mileage, great on snow, large and comfortable enough for my certain needs.
A Honda CR-V is a great vehicle. But I want something larger because I need something larger.
A CR-V is based on a Civic platform and is priced almost double of a Civic. A Lexus RX is based on a Camry platformand is priced almost double of a Camry. This is not about price.
The MDX's handling has been praised. I will drive the new MDX as a comparison to the RX. And, I will compare them overall... as I think the MDX is a far superior vehicle, but I want to discover the truth first hand.
Your overweight and bulbous MDX has been praised for its handling?
Well that's nice to know.
The Lexus RX never was about great handling but hey if your criteria for SUVs is handling well then yes your MDX is definitely superior to any RX.
I dont know if many of you folks are getting what I am hinting at but let me spell it out:
SUVs are great vehicles for many reason but for driving dynamics? C'mon let's get real here.
The bright side is that one would presume this to mean that Tom Bundchen will be ready to go in '09. And Cassel will be a starting QB, just hopefully he'll be dreadful if/when the Pats play the Chiefs... I always had a feeling that Cassel could play if given the chance. But now, he'll have a truer test, KC ain't (yet) no Patriots.
It's a tough game and business, football in the NFL. I'd have to guess if Vrable had a choice, he'd remain in NE. He was just a very good football player, with an enviable record as a tight end/receiver! Defense wins championships (not to mention ridiculous "Helmet Catches"... ), and the Pats have had a good one, especially the line and backers for quite some time. Hopefully, they can maintain the front seven and shore up the secondary with, as you note, the $ they save by (really having to) move Cassel. And to a lesser extent, Vrabel.
Yeah, probably mostly a $ cap issue. In his tenure with the Pats, Belichick (and company) have done so well with talent, taking in so called "malcontents" (see Corey Dillon and Randy Moss) and castoffs and "undersized" players (Vrabel, Burschi) and just winning, baby, winning! So, yes, in Bill I trust.
While the Red Sox are on our doorstep, I am looking forward to the Pats returning to form and righting the wrong of February 2008!
And maybe buying a Luxury Car with my newfound wealth thanks to the new, "Making Work Pay" tax credit! Unless, of course, our fine Governor gets his .19/gallon tax increase. "Reform before taxation!" Good slogan, never seems to happen in Massachusetts... :sick:
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
I am very much looking forward to the Red Sox this season. Wouldn't it be great if the Sox meet the Dodgers and that jerk "Mannywood" for the World Series?
By the way, have you test driven the new RX yet? I think your EW will "fall in love" with it and leave you alone .
I think your EW will "fall in love" with it and leave you alone
Almost everyone's wife here drives an RX. Well here's a shocker: My spouse is going to be driving the BMW and I am going to drive an RX and I am not even the evil wife.
Coincidentally my physician and a freind of mine who is a neurologist both happen to drive Lexus RX vehicles. And here's the BIG shocker: They are both males and their wives drive different vehicles.
Wow I just felt like I just confessed the awful truth that I drive a Mary Kay Pink Lexus. :P
Your overweight and bulbous MDX has been praised for its handling?
SUVs are great vehicles for many reason but for driving dynamics? C'mon let's get real here.
YES! I agree. Let's get real here!!
Sure it's rare. But facts are facts. The current generation MDX is a terrific handling vehicle, and it's an SUV!
Suddenly, you give up your appreciation for handling if you are driving an SUV? That's because it is unexpected... due to the history of poor handling SUVs like the RX and most others.
That's fine. And I do understand that handling isn't as important in an SUV, but... given the choice... I'll take the handling.
Here is an original Road & Track review of the '07 MDX, which represents it's debut of it's latest generation...
If you want to experience something amazing, test drive Acura's newest version of its full-size SUV, the MDX.
Forget sleight-of-hand or levitating acts. If you want to experience something amazing, test drive Acura's newest version of its full-size SUV, the MDX. Powered by a VTEC-equipped 3.7-liter, 300-bhp V-6, mated to a 5-speed sequential-shift automatic, the MDX's inability to frighten small children or break the sound barrier like its über German rivals is forgotten once you reach twisty roads and its considerable engineering genius shines through.
Acura's decision to arm the MDX with its Super Handling All Wheel Drive system (SH-AWD) produces an offensive lineman with the agility of a wide receiver. With every steering input you dial in, you can literally feel your line tighten up as the system induces yaw by overdriving the outside rear wheel. The MacPherson-strut front and multilink rear suspensions provide the foundation of the MDX's handling prowess but our Sport-optioned model was further complemented with semi-active magneto-rheological dampers — the same variable damping technology used in Ferrari's new 599 GTB Fiorano and Cadillac's XLR.
Packed with six standard airbags, a host of electronic stability logarithms including Trailer Stability Assist accompanying a new maximum towing capacity of 5000 lb., the MDX effortlessly blends safe travel with capability in a big package that's easy to swallow.
I don't expect it to influence your decision, but at least it answers your doubts and your question that you asked... and puts to rest the idea that an SUV can't handle well... VERY well in fact.
Gosh... I guess maybe I should pack my bags and leave this forum... afterall, I am not impressed with the RX's appearance or handlling. Nice vehicle, but let's not get carried away.
Oh, c'mon Charlie. Who was attacking your manhood? Certainly not me. If pointing out that most RX's are driven by women in this area of the country is an attack on your manhood, then excuse me.
I think I am now sorry I ever posted my opinions about the RX. It's gotten way out of hand and too personal.
Gosh... I guess maybe I should pack my bags and leave this forum... afterall, I am not impressed with the RX's appearance or handlling. Nice vehicle, but let's not get carried away.
Tag, even though you despise the new RX (at least so far) we still love you. We can't agree on everything but hopefully you will see the light after you test drive it.
Oh, c'mon Charlie. Who was attacking your manhood? Certainly not me. If pointing out that most RX's are driven by women in this area of the country is an attack on your manhood, then excuse me.
I think I am now sorry I ever posted my opinions about the RX. It's gotten way out of hand and too personal.
Tag, you know I was just joking as evidenced by the winking face I placed at the end. No way have I taken anything you stated as a personal attack. Don't let the small stuff bother you. Please keep posting you opinions. That's what makes it fun.
Believe it or not I joke around a lot with people I know and sometimes people I don't know.
V6, 3.7L, TT direct injection plus ion-lithium batteries. 441 Kw, almost 600 hp. Interesting. But it seems Infinity Essence is not going into production; it's only going to be an essay concept for the European market. The dashboard and steering wheel ensemble is sort of gloomy, IMO, as different from the exterior design.
I don't want to get into a heated discussion, but bland steering and a pillowy ride is not my idea of luxury. The RX just happens to err on the side of what I would call old US luxury.
I'll take a CX-9 or MDX over an RX in a heartbeat. I agree it's not about price. But if anyone is willing to accept lower driving dynamics over what's available on the market, fine. Not in my world, however. Regards, OW
I'm with you on that one...knew it going in. Nice talk, no action.
Take a look at gas prices now. considering all the current economic metrics, well over $2.00/gallon gas going into the Springtime spells a longer road to recovery...let alone high job loss rate.
Oh wow! You know I hate to hear that Len. I had and still have high hopes for Obama. But I respect your opinion SO much that you scare me with this statement.
He's got a very serious political problem on his hands. He got elected on principles, that if enacted, are some of the worst measures you can put in place in an economy like this. When I see a policy that wants to enact a limitation of a mortgage deduction on a housing market that is in freefall I am left to wonder if there were any lights on in the room where they had the discussion. That's like giving a person who needs a shot of penicillin a dose of poison. Then you have a mortgage program put in place that helps folks that should never have bought a house in the first place and encourages others to stop paying their mortgages so that they can qualify. I like the man but he's pushing the country to socialism and he and his team look like they are in way over their head.
I agree with Charlie. I had high hopes for B.O... but I think he is missing crucial timing. Way too fast with some of his ideas. Too many viamins can kill a person, too.
Bottom line... there now will be a terrible shakeout before a recovery. So, hold on to your seats. But, there WILL be a recovery... and the landscape will be very different when it finally happens.
After having the worst credit excesses in global history you do not solve the problem with trillions and trillions of new government credits. The only solution is massive bankruptcies for mortgage borrowers and corporations who have existed beyond their means. Capitalism involves booms and busts. Booms are always nice but busts are always nasty and necessary to wipe out the excesses in the economy. Unfortunately Obama is trying to preserve those excesses just like the Japanese tried to do with their economy during the 1990s and as a result Japan has been in stagnation for the last 15 years.
Real reform will happen when there are no alternatives and the very worst has already happened. When the US $ drops like an anchor. When Stagflation and depression is ferociusly destroying the economy then maybe just maybe a new Ronald Reagan who believes in free enterprise will be in the White House by 2013 and refrom the economy the way it should be. But hopefully by then it wont be too late.
I guess maybe I should pack my bags and leave this forum... afterall, I am not impressed with the RX's appearance or handlling.. Nice vehicle, but let's not get carried away
Tag,
we are here to debate and sometimes agree. I despise many vehicles. I hope you find nothing wrong with that?
You say you dont despise the RX. Well that's nice to know but despite your claim I have never ever met anybody who has such a passionate view of the RX as you do. In fact I never even knew an RX can provoke any kind of passion whatsoever. There is honestly nothing wrong with that. Honestly there isn't
Comments
"I hate the RX."
Sure the Prius and Insight are more fuel efficient than the RX but for a MIDSIZE LUXURY SUV, 30 mpg has got everyone beat, by a wide margin.
Spin it however you like but kudos to Lexus and congratulations to whoever that's getting this sweet new RX.
Whenever I make a compelling argument, you end up calling it "spin". I think that sucks. I'm not spinning anything. I'm keeping a perspective that agrees with many others, including industry critics as well.
Sure, there is credit to give the RX, but I'm not about to say it's a big winner just because it gets 30 MPG. It's still expensive, and ugly, and frankly, it handles poorly... worse than some of the other SUVs, so it's not an excuse to say its just an SUV and it therefore doesn't matter. It does matter.
If all the credit that it gets is that it is functional and reliable... then I'm not impressed. Sorry. But that's no spin.
It all reminds me of the big deal some gave the GS hybrid... and I'm not impressed with that vehicle either.
Are you right when you say I hate it? Well... in that regard you are going overboard, but I must admit you are pretty close.
TM
Here is a rag review:
CR-V EX-L
Specifically:
But Can't We Have a Little Fun?
Do not interpret this to mean that the CR-V comes up short in the competence department. Renewed from top to bottom last year, Honda's cute ute is tightly wrapped, handsomely appointed, versatile, stylish, and by the standards of this popular class, exceptionally nimble.
Consistent with Honda design code, the CR-V is a model of ergonomic efficiency—controls are well marked, well placed, easy to locate, and easy to use. There are numerous nooks and small bins for stowing stuff, another Honda hallmark.
Perhaps not an RX450, but it's a new luxury environment, right? I know its a strectch...
Regards,
OW
However, if Dewey is suddenly going for the Lexus fluff that he formerly dissed, so be it. I could understand it if it were an LS, but in an RX, I think it's all a total waste.
If there is any "spin" being placed on this vehicle, it's spinning it to be better than it really is. It's really not that much more than a poor-handling strange-looking SUV with a comfortable Lexus interior. Heck, it's not any real technological wonder, either. Nor has it broken any real ground in the styling department, and it's handling isn't even average. In fact, it's looks are essentially the same old thing, but with a little twist.
How can anyone sensationalize this vehicle without putting loads of spin on it? :confuse:
I promised Charlie I will check it out, and I will TRY (honest) to keep an open mind, although it will be hard regarding this RX. I have done well in being open-minded this past year or two, so who knows... maybe I'll bring one home for the wife. :surprise:
TM
That is damning with faint praise, IMHO. I think the CRV has gotten progressively less attractive with each generation. Not that the RAV4 is a winner, nor the Escape or Equinox. Come to think of it, I don't find any of the "sport-cutes" attractive.
I am much happier with the Legacy wagon, with its manual transmission, AWD, decent power and decent fuel economy. It has room in the back for a long weekend with a spouse, baby, and dog, it can tote 2700 lbs of trailer (great for antiques or CL finds).
I have no need for a high center of gravity, poorer handling, less fun to drive glorified station wagon or psuedo truck to compensate for manhood driving a wagon. Its likely the next family truxster will have *gasp* sliding doors. I can't wait...no more door dings from parking in the garage, no more bending around the door with an infant seat or loading the toddler seat, and room in the back for a weekend of gear.
Lexus is surprisingly behind the times on this issue. Saab - desperate, dying Saab - is going to have a compact SUV before they will (assuming Lexus ever offers one). Their only three-row offerings are dinosaurs, no match for a GL or Q7.
If there was a well executed Japanese compact lux ute, I'd buy it. There isn't one. The EX35 comes close, but they blew it with the rear seats. The Q5 seems like the most complete product in the class, and I'm willing to take the reliability risk because of that. If it turns out to be a lemon, then we wont buy another.
Let's not forget that buying Japanese isn't a guarantee that you're going to get a perfect car that will be trouble free for 200K miles. Early RL buyers were probably very surprised when their fancy new AWD systems locked up, and the electronics fizzled out. GS300 AWD owners were also in for a rude awakening that Lexus can and does occasionally drop the ball in quality. I won't even get into Acura's grenading transmissions from a few years back.
Well said. A wagon can handle just about anything that a mid-sized SUV might be asked to do while providing more driving pleasure & better fuel economy. The only compelling reason to buy an SUV instead of a wagon is to get that high seating position that's so important to 30-something mothers.
One of my friends has an '08 BMW 535xi wagon with, God bless him, a stick. I've driven it several times & would much rather have it than any SUV in that price range. (Come to think of it, is any mid-luxe SUV available with a stick?) I'm even playing with the idea of buying it as a CPO when he turns it in at the end of next year.
Apparently Infiniti mistakenly assumed that the EX would appeal to empty nester baby boomers for whom rear leg room wouldn't be an issue. I guess that Infiniti figured that the rear seats would be folded down most of the time.
Supposedly this problem will be fixed somehow in the 2010 EX, but I'll believe that when I see it. Another problem with the EX is its rather poor fuel economy, for which the 5-speed transmission is partly to blame. If Infiniti can squeeze the 7-speed into the G, it should be able to do the same with the EX. That might help.
The Q5 seems like the most complete product in the class, and I'm willing to take the reliability risk because of that.
Good luck. For your sake, I hope the the Q5 is better than the Q7.
Let's not forget that buying Japanese isn't a guarantee that you're going to get a perfect car that will be trouble free for 200K miles.
Agreed, but if you've convinced yourself that you simply must have an SUV, then buying Japanese stacks the odds in your favor.
We obviously disagree wholeheartedly in this case. I love just about everything about the new RX as I stated before, and the last time I checked, I am a man
Tag, you promised me that you will test drive the new RX so I will hold you to it.
Now I have to read again some of the "good" posts from Lou about the new RX450h. BTW, where did Lou get these revised EPA numbers? Did he indicate so on his post? Anyway, that is exciting news.
Indeed, although the EX certainly isn't alone in that regard. Nearly all of the compact lux utes seem to get the same pathetic 16mpg. The exceptions are the X3 and the Q5. A RAV4 based Lexus would probably be the most efficient in class, but for some reason Toyota can't seem to figure out whether they should build it. Seems like a complete no-brainer to me.
I'm not too worried about the Q5. The Q7 shares a lot with the Toureg and Cayenne - not paragons of reliability and quality. The Q5 borrows heavily from the A4, which has been pretty good lately.
Looking forward to my free wash, wrap sandwich and cookie on Saturday! I only wish it wasn't at the Lexus dealer as there are just no truly interesting new cars to play with after I dine! :shades:
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
I am glad you like the RX. Really. I think everyone should feel good about their vehicles.
I know you don't take any of it personal... because it hasn't been directed as such. I openly admit I've never liked the RX, and yes, I will check out the new one... one of these days.
I think there is nothing wrong with liking and disliking certain vehicles more emphatically than others. Thanks for keeping a level head and staying cool while I unloaded on the RX.
I hope Dewey avoids it like the plague... LOL... but I can understand how the capability in the snow can appeal to him, as well as get the hybrid value in Canada that we don't get here. I will wish him well with any vehicle he acquires, and I also hope you enjoy your new RX when it arrives.
TM
http://blogs.edmunds.com/straightline/2009/03/2010-lexus-rx-450h-makes-30-mpg-co- - mbined.html
As matter of fact, I will be driving the RX400h for the next couple days since my IS is at the dealership for the recall. The FE for my commute today between home and work is 24 mpg with 80% local and 20% highway.
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FirstDrives/articleId=140186
I looked all over Edmunds, but I could not find it on my own. I am willing to bet that if one uses the ECO drive option on the RX450h in city driving, it will get more than 36 mpg. When we first got the RX400h in the spring of 2005, I was able to get 40 mpg driving for about 28 miles (without turning off the engine) in the city and going about 30-35 mph most of the time. I was pretty excited about that at that time, but as I quickly learned that was not at all realistic. In reality, one usually makes stops and turns off the engine in the city after usually driving for a few miles. That absolutely kills the gas mileage. In the new RX450h that will not be the case any more (at least not much) since it re-circulates the exhaust gases and keeps to engine warm (just like the Prius). If I was able to get 40mpg on the RX400h, I wonder what I will get taking the same route under the same (atmospheric conditions (temperatures in the 70s) with the RX450h? It will certainly be interesting and fun to test.
Charlie... Interesting vehicle, but, other than the good MPGs, what's the point? What am I missing?
TM
Cayenne.
Earlier today at the Geneva Motor Show, Infiniti officially unveiled its new hybrid-powertrain concept car, the Essence. Embodying what Infiniti says is the essence of its brand, the rear-wheel-drive sports coupe is designed to celebrate Infiniti’s past, while show off some new technologies.
Under its svelte bodywork, the Essence is home to Infiniti’s first-ever hybrid powertrain, a 434-horsepower twin-turbo 3.7-liter V6 that teams up with a slim, disc-shaped “3D” 158-horsepower electric engine for a combined 592-horsepower.
The electric assist motor has about twice the torque of a conventional motor thanks to a layout that Infiniti says optimizes the electromagnetic coils and permanent magnets.
Inside, the Essence features custom luggage by Louis Vuitton, and a driver-focused asymmetrical cabin layout. The driver’s side of the cabin features a black “theme,” while the passenger’s side features an “earthy red theme.”
The Essence’s exterior features some familiar design cues, but it also debuts the automaker’s new “Dynamic Adekaka” design language based on Japanese traditions. A long hood and short rear deck make the Essence look more like a sports car of the past, at least proportionally, while sharp lines and complex surfacing feature details based on Japanese cultural pieces, like the “kanzashi” hairpin worn by women wearing kimonos.
No pix that I could find. Soon!
REgards,
OW
Regards,
OW
I disagree about its looks somewhat from the review. I really think that the new RX is better looking than the old RX. The review basically liked everything about it except for the handling when turning. I agree with the reviewer that the Remote Touch controlling the navigation is very easy and fun to use.
I wonder what the tone of the review would be if it were written now with the revised and improved EPA figures.
As far as your question "what am I missing" is concerned, you need to test drive it and then come back to us and report your honest assessment. I really think you will be pleasantly surprised just as Dewey was. The car is quiet, comfortable, full of useful high tech features, and in my opinion, good looking.
Handling is important to me, but I don't expect more than is reasonable from an SUV. The MDX's handling has been praised. I will drive the new MDX as a comparison to the RX. And, I will compare them overall... as I think the MDX is a far superior vehicle, but I want to discover the truth first hand.
TM
thanks for the information.
This big heavy beast called the RX450h will get 60 percent better mileage than a puny Toyota AWD Matrix or a so called fuel efficient i4 Honda CRV.
This vehicle is an engineering marvel.
Thanks again.
I know the driving dynamics will be better in any smaller or lighter vehicle than a Lexus RX450h. I got enough driving dynamics in our garage in the form of the BMW 530xi Touring . This BMW makes a MDX or in fact any SUV look pathetic in terms of driving dynamics.
But a Lexus RX450 is not about driving dynamic and it never was. Not every vehicle I own has to have driving dynamic pretensions in the form of an SUV.
If my criteria was driving dynamics I would keep my BMW 335i and say the heck with its aggravations. But unfortuantely I am not that desperate for a performance car.
I am picking such a vehicle for my own personal reasons. Great on mileage, great on snow, large and comfortable enough for my certain needs.
A Honda CR-V is a great vehicle. But I want something larger because I need something larger.
A CR-V is based on a Civic platform and is priced almost double of a Civic. A Lexus RX is based on a Camry platformand is priced almost double of a Camry. This is not about price.
Your overweight and bulbous MDX has been praised for its handling?
Well that's nice to know.
The Lexus RX never was about great handling but hey if your criteria for SUVs is handling well then yes your MDX is definitely superior to any RX.
I dont know if many of you folks are getting what I am hinting at but let me spell it out:
SUVs are great vehicles for many reason but for driving dynamics? C'mon let's get real here.
I
wish you luck with your RX order. Please let me know any news about when they are arriving.
I am very interested but I dont want to appear too interest by pre-ordering one since I want to at least attempt to try to strike a good deal.
The bright side is that one would presume this to mean that Tom Bundchen will be ready to go in '09. And Cassel will be a starting QB, just hopefully he'll be dreadful if/when the Pats play the Chiefs... I always had a feeling that Cassel could play if given the chance. But now, he'll have a truer test, KC ain't (yet) no Patriots.
It's a tough game and business, football in the NFL. I'd have to guess if Vrable had a choice, he'd remain in NE. He was just a very good football player, with an enviable record as a tight end/receiver! Defense wins championships (not to mention ridiculous "Helmet Catches"...
Yeah, probably mostly a $ cap issue. In his tenure with the Pats, Belichick (and company) have done so well with talent, taking in so called "malcontents" (see Corey Dillon and Randy Moss) and castoffs and "undersized" players (Vrabel, Burschi) and just winning, baby, winning! So, yes, in Bill I trust.
While the Red Sox are on our doorstep, I am looking forward to the Pats returning to form and righting the wrong of February 2008!
And maybe buying a Luxury Car with my newfound wealth thanks to the new, "Making Work Pay" tax credit! Unless, of course, our fine Governor gets his .19/gallon tax increase. "Reform before taxation!" Good slogan, never seems to happen in Massachusetts... :sick:
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
I am very much looking forward to the Red Sox this season. Wouldn't it be great if the Sox meet the Dodgers and that jerk "Mannywood" for the World Series?
By the way, have you test driven the new RX yet? I think your EW will "fall in love" with it and leave you alone
Almost everyone's wife here drives an RX. Well here's a shocker: My spouse is going to be driving the BMW and I am going to drive an RX and I am not even the evil wife.
Coincidentally my physician and a freind of mine who is a neurologist both happen to drive Lexus RX vehicles. And here's the BIG shocker: They are both males and their wives drive different vehicles.
Wow I just felt like I just confessed the awful truth that I drive a Mary Kay Pink Lexus. :P
Have you read the posts from yesterday afternoon and evening yet? I was defending our "manhood"
SUVs are great vehicles for many reason but for driving dynamics? C'mon let's get real here.
YES! I agree. Let's get real here!!
Sure it's rare. But facts are facts. The current generation MDX is a terrific handling vehicle, and it's an SUV!
Suddenly, you give up your appreciation for handling if you are driving an SUV? That's because it is unexpected... due to the history of poor handling SUVs like the RX and most others.
That's fine. And I do understand that handling isn't as important in an SUV, but... given the choice... I'll take the handling.
Here is an original Road & Track review of the '07 MDX, which represents it's debut of it's latest generation...
If you want to experience something amazing, test drive Acura's newest version of its full-size SUV, the MDX.
Forget sleight-of-hand or levitating acts. If you want to experience something amazing, test drive Acura's newest version of its full-size SUV, the MDX. Powered by a VTEC-equipped 3.7-liter, 300-bhp V-6, mated to a 5-speed sequential-shift automatic, the MDX's inability to frighten small children or break the sound barrier like its über German rivals is forgotten once you reach twisty roads and its considerable engineering genius shines through.
Acura's decision to arm the MDX with its Super Handling All Wheel Drive system (SH-AWD) produces an offensive lineman with the agility of a wide receiver. With every steering input you dial in, you can literally feel your line tighten up as the system induces yaw by overdriving the outside rear wheel. The MacPherson-strut front and multilink rear suspensions provide the foundation of the MDX's handling prowess but our Sport-optioned model was further complemented with semi-active magneto-rheological dampers — the same variable damping technology used in Ferrari's new 599 GTB Fiorano and Cadillac's XLR.
Packed with six standard airbags, a host of electronic stability logarithms including Trailer Stability Assist accompanying a new maximum towing capacity of 5000 lb., the MDX effortlessly blends safe travel with capability in a big package that's easy to swallow.
I don't expect it to influence your decision, but at least it answers your doubts and your question that you asked... and puts to rest the idea that an SUV can't handle well... VERY well in fact.
Gosh... I guess maybe I should pack my bags and leave this forum... afterall, I am not impressed with the RX's appearance or handlling. Nice vehicle, but let's not get carried away.
TM
Oh, c'mon Charlie. Who was attacking your manhood? Certainly not me. If pointing out that most RX's are driven by women in this area of the country is an attack on your manhood, then excuse me.
I think I am now sorry I ever posted my opinions about the RX. It's gotten way out of hand and too personal.
TM
Tag, even though you despise the new RX (at least so far) we still love you. We can't agree on everything but hopefully you will see the light after you test drive it.
Without you this forum would die :sick:
I think I am now sorry I ever posted my opinions about the RX. It's gotten way out of hand and too personal.
Tag, you know I was just joking as evidenced by the winking face I placed at the end. No way have I taken anything you stated as a personal attack. Don't let the small stuff bother you. Please keep posting you opinions. That's what makes it fun.
Believe it or not I joke around a lot with people I know and sometimes people I don't know.
TM
V6, 3.7L, TT direct injection plus ion-lithium batteries. 441 Kw, almost 600 hp. Interesting. But it seems Infinity Essence is not going into production; it's only going to be an essay concept for the European market. The dashboard and steering wheel ensemble is sort of gloomy, IMO, as different from the exterior design.
Regards,
Jose
I'll take a CX-9 or MDX over an RX in a heartbeat. I agree it's not about price. But if anyone is willing to accept lower driving dynamics over what's available on the market, fine. Not in my world, however.
Regards,
OW
Take a look at gas prices now. considering all the current economic metrics, well over $2.00/gallon gas going into the Springtime spells a longer road to recovery...let alone high job loss rate.
Regards,
OW
Anyway, thanks, Jose. I like the idea of not compromising the power and at the same time as gaining efficiency.
Do you have any idea over on your side of the pond of using in-wheel electric motor technology? I know Mitsu was working on that concept.
Regards,
OW
Citroën C-Métisse Diesel Hybrid
Michelin is trying to do something too
link title
Time will tell, but all of them seem to be too much green ("to be still green" "estar verde todavía" means to be very much premature in Spanish).
Regards,
Jose
Bottom line... there now will be a terrible shakeout before a recovery. So, hold on to your seats. But, there WILL be a recovery... and the landscape will be very different when it finally happens.
TM
Real reform will happen when there are no alternatives and the very worst has already happened. When the US $ drops like an anchor. When Stagflation and depression is ferociusly destroying the economy then maybe just maybe a new Ronald Reagan who believes in free enterprise will be in the White House by 2013 and refrom the economy the way it should be. But hopefully by then it wont be too late.
Tag,
we are here to debate and sometimes agree. I despise many vehicles. I hope you find nothing wrong with that?
You say you dont despise the RX. Well that's nice to know but despite your claim I have never ever met anybody who has such a passionate view of the RX as you do. In fact I never even knew an RX can provoke any kind of passion whatsoever. There is honestly nothing wrong with that. Honestly there isn't
No hard feelings at least I hope not.
Regards,
OW