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This reminds me of the purists on the BMW forum when I started a vicious discussion on the benefits of AWD vs. RWD. It's hard to let go of the past but the advances in technology will not be stopped.
Nothing personal. Luxury does not have to be mutually exclusive to engaged driving. IMVHO, of course!
Regards,
OW
It's fine. I'm a fixture.
TM
Yeah... as far as the economy is concerned, we are in for some serious SH_T to hit the fan before it finally turns the corner.
I continue to hope B.O. is the finest POTUS we've had in many an administration. Unfortunately, he is fulfilling his campaign promises of taxing/spending and socializing... I'm no politico, but I just wasn't sure he was the right man at the right time. But, I continue to hope that (as usual) I was wrong.
It is truly annoying to do everything right and watch those that did not appear to get "rewarded." Let's hear it for the Nanny State!
Oh, yeah. The EW test drove the '09 RX but was not moved enough to want to trade in the '02 and assume more debt. She hasn't noted any desire to test the '10, either. Yay.
I have no use, personally, for an SUV. But, it is nice to have one in the family. Especially if it keeps the EW happy! If I needed such utility, I would be more inclined to look at true station wagons, a la Dewey and his 530xiT.
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
Agree it is "estar verde todavía" at the present moment.
Here is an additional resource if interested.
Daily Hybrid
Regards,
OW
I strongly recommend, in fact I insist on driving a black RX with black interior.
Regards,
Jose
Buying a hybrid right now this year may be premature with what may be introduced next year.
The battery venture with Matsushita Electric Industrial Co currently produces nickel-metal hydride batteries used in Toyota’s hybrid vehicles. It is building two new factories to bring annual output capacity to 1 million batteries around 2010.
Full-scale production of lithium-ion batteries would start in 2010, Toyota said on Wednesday, declining to disclose planned output capacity.
link title
Regards,
OW
The X5 has superior handling to the MDX, but not by much.
In both, the suspension setups are rather harsh and provide punishing feedback.
The X5 had BMW's best interior and a lot of front legroom. The MDX had more rear cargo space.
Neither one took turns like a graceful athlete.
I would pick the MDX over the X5 because of the former's superior rear cargo space-around 83.5 cubic feet.
My BMW 335i is like the economy today. Every pothole bump with my sport suspension is like a market rupture. Almost everyday I pray that the software modules in my car does not meltdown like the markets. There is a great degree of uncertainty when I drive my car on variables I cannot even understand (car malfunction, weather hindrance, police ticketeing) . No Financial Risk model can capture the uncertainty involved with my BMW335i.
While the Lexus RX450h islike the Great Moderation of the 90s where I will be cocooned from all uncertainties. Not too cold, not too hot just right. Where my daily journeys with my RX will be as dependable and consistent as the positve portfolio returns I achieved before this meltdown. Mush you say mush. I will take that RX mush anyday. :shades:
Well, that would make you less aware of the real world, I'm afraid! JK, JK!!
Regards,
OW
Who would you equate the new RX hybrid to? A comfortable pick you expect reliability from, but not so much flash & dash?
Just curious, & remember, contract terms apply. 3 year contract, long term?
Getting Cup fever, sorry. ;-)
The interior material isn't any better than the previous gen RX but the design has improved TREMENDOUSLY. With the higher center console now and better bolstered seats I got a more car-like feel than sitting in the old RX. The gray metallic panel on the center stack might look cheap from the pictures but in person, it is high quality, especially if you touch it.
Overall I have to say from the outside it is a better looking crossover than the old one (although not by much) but a huge improvement overall if taken the interior into consideration.
I could not see/feel any perceptible difference in performance.
X5 has better finish and material quality
In the end I bought MDX here are my thoughts:
1) Best drivers SUV for the money
2) Stealth luxury... IMHO a good idea in this economy
3) I like the interior.. You might have heard about sea of buttons but they are logically arranged and adds good redundancy to the center knob/voice command.
4) Dont really care for "plastic wood"
5) Interior materials could be better X5 has better leather and X5 cabin is cleaner.
6) Not knowing service manager and his kids and gardener by first name: PRICELESS #6 was/is my perception
7) Decent 3 row seat...
Six month and 6000 miles I am still happy with the purchase.
What will be the $$ for your RX?
TM
The 2009 Geneva motor Show has seen the Nissan luxury brand making waves all over Europe there are not signs that the Japanese automaker is slowing down. It all started with the unwrapping of the stunning Infiniti Essence Concept, a 2-seater rear-wheel-drive coupe with a turbocharged V6 gasoline hybrid system generating 600hp to match its show-stealing sheet metal.
Then the bombshell was revealed: Infiniti intends to shift its entire lineup to the hybrid system beginning with the new M sedan in September of 2010. There are also reports going around that a model derived from the Essence concept will be coming out next year in the European market. Further reports say that Infiniti will give up its gas-electric hybrid setup in the Essence in favor of the diesel-electric hybrid system. Although details about pricing have not yet been released for the model but Nissan said that customers willing to purchase a diesel hybrid would be in the luxury class. Of course, in theory, a diesel-electric setup would be more economical than its gasoline-electric counterpart. There are plans already by Nissan to open a V6 diesel powerplant in its European crossovers in 2010, this could point to the powerplant we can expect in the Essence version. The diesel hybrid in the Infiniti would be unprecedented. Nissan is entering into new territory with its brand new commitment to hybrids and ultimately distinguishing itself from its rivals.
http://www.4wheelsnews.com/infiniti-essence-coming-in-2010/
This should be intresting.
Indeed, especially considering Carlos Ghosn at least initially showed little interest in hybrids. I'm excited to see how the next M turns out, I think it's going to be a very well executed car. It certainly wouldn't be difficult for them to do a better job than Lexus did with the GS450h.
Lou, I think you had better read this other article which states the situation a little clearer. I have made the key words a little larger and bolder for you.
A styling experiment called the Infiniti Essence could very well be exhibiting the future shape of performance hybrids from carmaker from Japan. The car was made intentionally to mark the Infiniti’s 20th anniversary.
It comes with a gasoline hybrid system which mixes a twin-turbo variant of the 3.7-liter gasoline V6 familiar to the Infiniti with a potent electric motor to generate a maximum of 600hp. The RWD Infiniti is propelled via a 7-speed paddle-shift auto transmission already found in the FX luxury SUV which is powered by the V8 unit. Plans for a production model of a performance hybrid have already been revealed by Infiniti. Company insiders have provided information that the setup of the Essence is nearing actuality. Diesel models that will come with a Renault-based 3.0-liter V6 will be Infiniti’s top priority for Europe, but the hybrid could still make an appearance in the impending large saloon which is set for 2010.
With this brand, Nissan would be on the level of older and more established luxury brands in making available both diesel and hybrid versions. The inspiration for the external styling of the hybrid comes from the sea in keeping with Japanese proclivity toward nature. The hybrid’s three-dimensional grill and excessive L-shaped headlights are near existing Infiniti production forms although they push them beyond the limits. Although these designs will not be actualized, the boldness and lavishness of the design of Essence show that Nissan has the potential to attain its plans to expand its model range into new spheres.
The lavishness is also found in the interior, which is divided by a large and high central console and differing trim into two sections. The instruments on the dash panel are evocative of bright production dials of which Infiniti is well-known; however, the control arrangement brings a ‘hidden technology’ scheme. Infiniti says that this will house all modern equipment but will provide them in a layout which suits most drivers and utilize only the most essential of these.
link title
Now that I have posted this other article which supports the idea that the Essence is planned to be released in Europe potentially as early as 2010... if it actually happens (by 2010 or 2011, as you have wagered), I will remind you that you have lost your IS350.
TM
The pricing for the RX450h has not yet been officially released, but it will most likely be about $5-6K more than the RX350. The cost of the 350 has either remained unchanged or actually dropped a few hundred dollars from last year's model. I imagine that based on what we have ordered, (everything except the rear seat entertainment), the MSRP will be in the upper $50'sK. I do know one thing for certain, however. I will not pay MSRP. I have already been promised a sizable discount (whatever that means) since I have been a loyal customer for many years.
We have been thinking that we will go with the one payment lease option for 3 years. However, I am now wondering if I should just go with a straight lease with $zero down. It is very likely that we will go through the process again in 3 years and order a model that will probably be getting 45-50 mpg with the new battery technology. I will gladly take suggestions on financing from you or anyone else here.
I hope you won't let us wait very long for your review.
Looking forward to it.
Interesting information.
Regards,
OW
I agree with you. The interior is very nice,much better feel then the previous RX.
From the press release:
This concept embodies Infiniti's core values as an inspiration for the future as much a celebration of the past. Essence showcases many of the technologies, including hybrid, and design cues that will distinguish Infiniti production cars of the coming years. And by steering Infiniti's guiding principle of "Inspired Performance" into the super-performance, super-luxury coupe market for the first time, it reaffirms Infiniti's place among the world's most exclusive and vibrant car brands.
Full press release can be found here
Also let me remind you, until someone is willing to wage one of his/her cars for the bet even if the Essence becomes a reality in 2010 or 2011 I will still have the right to my IS350. So... Want to wage you 135i?
Actually, I'll prove you wrong even with the article you just posted...
Company insiders have provided information that the setup of the Essence is nearing actuality. Diesel models that will come with a Renault-based 3.0-liter V6 will be Infiniti’s top priority for Europe, but the hybrid could still make an appearance in the impending large saloon which is set for 2010.
The keywords are "the setup", which means the hybrid setup.
You don't have to believe me, I'll just show you my I-told-you-so dance when 2010 and 2011 passed and gone without the Essence...
My guess is around $50k ~ $52k
If one is willing to give up many luxury items on your list and just want a fuel efficient luxury SUV with the navigation I think around $50k to $52k is very do-able for the RX450h.
Aren't there boards for SUVs, Luxury SUVs, Hybrids, and possibly Luxury Hybrid SUVs?? :confuse: (If not, please go create some.)
:sick: of all the SUV/hybrid talk in here.
No thanks...the idea of wagering your car is your idea, not mine. And, this isn't a topic I'd wager on anyway.
I don't think it matters which powertrain shows up initially... the real question now is whether or not the car itself will show up or not by 2011. I have no idea... just the article to go by. I'll look forward to your I-told-you-so dance.
Besides, you still owe me from the last time when I won our last bet... hahaha
TM
Last I checked this forum is called "Luxury Lounge", which I determine it as anything related to luxury vehicles, luxury brands and/or luxury auto industry goes here...
Is Lexus a luxury brand? Checked.
Is the RX made by Lexus? Checked.
So what's the problem here?
If you don't like the topic you are always welcome to start a another one or just ignore it. Come on tayl0rd, you are not new here, you know better...
Here you go...
MB is an established luxury car comany and continue to be among the leaders in brand prestige, quality and sales around the world. The success of such company can be served as great examples to the new comers such as Lexus, Infiniti or even Hyundai. Even with my passion about Lexus I have to say that if one is looking for the standard of luxury cars one should look no further pass the tri-star.
By the way, if you ever come across something that clearly states that Essence the car is coming in 2010 let me know, I am curious about this car as well.
And it's not like I'm the only one to notice, if you go back just a few posts.
Those topics have obviously sparked a lot of interest recently, given the timing and unique conditions in the marketplace, members current vehicle needs, and trends in the industry... all interesting and relevant, IMHO. And, given the participation level, I'd say it's pretty obvious that most members here have had opinions and were interested.
My suggestion:
1. Chill out, and go with the flow. The tide always changes.
2. Post an interesting topic yourself that everyone will be interested in discussing.
That said, hybrid and alternate powertrains are a hot topic for this forum, as those powertrains increasingly show up in vehicles other than the conventional economy cars... migrating to luxury vehicles, whether they are SUVs, coupes, or sedans... (or the upcoming Essence (hahaha, Lou.)
TM
For our money and driving pleasure, we choose the 2009 Volkswagen Jetta TDI over the 2009 Toyota Prius Touring. Of course, all that could change in a month or so once we get our hands on a 2010 Toyota Prius which is said to be more powerful, more efficient and up-to-date in terms of infotainment.
Comparison Test: 2009 Toyota Prius vs. 2009 Volkswagen Jetta TDI
And
As such, the 335d feels like a muscle-bound monster in real-world driving, whether accelerating from stoplights or darting around slow-lane dawdlers.
Just know that the 2009 BMW 335d won't burn fuel like a sports car. Against EPA estimates of 23 mpg city/36 highway and 27 combined, we averaged 29.6 miles per gallon over 1,517 miles. Our best tank — 33.9 mpg — was recorded during rapid highway transit with three adults in the car. These are remarkable numbers for such a powerful sedan.
Who Should Buy This Vehicle. Those who like the sound of muscle-car acceleration, sports-car handling and economy-car fuel-efficiency in a refined and stylish package.
2009 BMW 3 Series Road Test Review
:shades: (I know, I know; I've told you this before.
Regards,
Jose
Excellent articles. Uh oh... you might have just rekindled my passionate support for modern clean diesels once again.
TM
Now we're talking, and here's why. Using the EPA's fuel-economy figures for both cars (27 mpg combined for the 335d and 20 mpg combined for the 335i) and a rate of 15,000 miles driven annually, we find that the 335d will burn 195 gallons of fuel fewer than a 335i. In our own testing, we achieved 29.6 mpg with the 335d while covering 1,517 miles, about 70 percent of which were highway miles. Using the current average U.S. fuel prices for diesel and gasoline, the annual fuel cost at this rate is virtually the same — $1,273/year for the 335d and $1,263/year for the 335i.
0 - 30 (sec): 2.3
0 - 45 (sec): 3.8
0 - 60 (sec): 5.9
0 - 75 (sec): 8.4
1/4 Mile (sec @ mph): 14.1 @ 99.1
0-60 with 1-ft Rollout (sec): 5.6
Source: 2009 BMW 335d Full Test
0 - 30 (sec): 1.8
0 - 45 (sec): 3.3
0 - 60 (sec): 5.0
0 - 75 (sec): 7.6
1/4 Mile (sec @ mph): 13.6 @ 102.5
Source: Follow-Up Test: 2007 BMW 335i Sedan
335i sedan: starting at $40,300
335d sedan: starting at $43,900
Source: BMW
So let me see... the 335d is slower, more expensive and doesn't really save you money on gas over the 335i...
What's the point of this car again (In USA at least)?
Whoa!!! That's only based on these current low fuel prices. IOW, bottom line costs to fuel both vehicles are currently about the same because of the low price of fuel. As soon as fuel prices start to climb again, then the diesel immediately starts saving on fuel.
Besides, given some of the arguments about the RX, I guess some of you guys don't think fuel saving is what matters anyway. There is no way that the huge hybrid premium for the RX450h would be recovered anytime soon after purchasing it, yet you were a strong advocate of the car.
What's different about the BMW situation? Is it a more expensive alternative that doesn't pay for itself just like the RX?
Be consistent.
TM
In tracks and tests.
Not in streets / roads / highways on everyday use. That is, not in the full range of revs. All this meaning one can easily drive her in an agile sporty way, with instantly full and tremendous acceleration power, without being worried by having to shift to high revs. This is what 335d is so rewarding.
and doesn't really save you money on gas over the 335i.. (in USA at least)
I am not sure if those cost-fuel numbers were calculated by using premium or regular gas vs. diesel. Anyway, here in Spain premium and diesel prices are even.
Most important (to me), I complete my dayly driving pleasure having a d that is like a real sports car without burning fuel — no matter if diesel or gas — like a sports car. (A bit loosey but never a fool. :shades: )
Anyway, I am being such a nuisance in pushing all of you, or as many as possible, to test-drive the 335d (preferably with sport package) only for the experience itself. For you to buy or not to buy her it is beyond my intention.
Regards,
Jose
Edit: I cannot remember the source, but I remember having read that, disregarding fuel price, 335d burns an important number of gallons less than a 335i per year of driving. Not trying to be ecologist to the extreme by saying this, but just thinking on the limited existences of fossil fuel. Driving diesels equals burning less fuel globally.
Look at the 0-30 and 0-45 numbers for both cars. Even though the 335d has much higher torque, it did not translate to the actual performance numbers.
I am not sure if those cost-fuel numbers were calculated by using premium or regular gas vs. diesel.
Premium of course, all gasoline BMWs require premium gas. In US, diesel price is consistently higher than premium regardless how high/low the gas price is.
Unfortunately BMW wanted one engine that they could use in both the 3 series and X5 over here, so it had to be the 335d. All of BMW's smaller diesels are substantially more fuel efficient, and would allow you to achieve real savings. A 320d M Sport like the Brits get can still outrun a Prius or Insight, and of course in the corners it's a BMW. It's rated at 59mpg in their combined cycle, vs. 42 for the 335d.
Regards,
Jose
Also keep in mind those are full throttle test numbers. The real advantage of a diesel is that you can achieve significant, enjoyable acceleration without the need to go full throttle. In full throttle conditions, I'd also wager the mpg delta between the two would be even greater.
Regards,
Jose
Ding, ding, ding.... Very unfortunate, IMO.
TM