California does have a Lemon Law, the Song-Beverly Consumer Warranty Act, which on the surface appears to be very consumer friendly. I have been considering filing for arbitration for some time, and am now moving forward with it.
As Kallop stated, the directions for filling for arbitration are at the back of the owner's manual. Here are the basics on the CA Lemon Law. And here is more information on the Arbitration Certification Program. I intend to file for arbitration on the grounds that my vehicle has been out of service for more than 30 days in the first 18 months. Those that are interested should read the Lemon Aid brochure.
So sorry about the repeat problems, Serrdon and others. I will let you know what I learn by going through the arbitration process.
I previously posted message #64. Since then, I've also had the battery harness replaced after the battery light came on. The dealership lost no time in getting me in the same day and getting it fixed. They had four harnesses in stock, so obviously were anticipating the problem. Your comments about the rough downshifting caught my attention. I've also experienced the same thing. Immediately after I bought the car, I told the salesman about it. Wanted him to ride with me so I could show him, but he basically patted me on the head and said, "Haven't you ever owned a car with ABS?" How insulting..... Well, I let it go, but the wobbly, clunky feeling continued for some time. Have to say it has smoothed out, and doesn't feel as bad as it used to. I've got over 6,000 miles on my car. Don't understand the callibration thing, and if someone wouldn't mind elaborating a bit on it, I would appreciate it. Also, someone else mentioned the airbag light coming on. Yep, mine too. It's been in the shop twice for that particular problem. I've been told when the light comes on, airbags will not inflate, so it's unsafe to drive. It came on once more after being "fixed" last time, but hasn't happened again for a few weeks. Thing is, I really like how this little SUV drives. Really a shame it's got so many problems. Oh, and my mileage improves dramatically when I leave the air condition off. Still not the sticker mileage, but better than it was. So, if I want hybrid mileage performance, I have to put up with sweating...
Thanks to all who have added their input to this form. I have learned more about the Vue Hybrid here than in the service lane where the mood is secretive. Like most, I bought the Green Line for the technology and the thought that I was doing somthing good for the environment. Mileage was somewhat secondary as the car is a five pasanger SUV. My mistake was going cheap with GM and not buying the Lexus.
I am in the process of filing a Lemon Law for my Green Line. Fifth trip to the dealer with the check engine light on; two times on the hook. Two freeway shut-offs. Pre-recall wire harness modification was doneafter the second time towed in. The cpu's have been program "upgraded" three times. Still, the rough idle persists as does rough shifting and numerous rattles and groans when going around corners. Dispite how well the little SUV drives and how good the mileage (post wire harness) is, I have lost confidence in the saftey and reliability of the vehicle.
The Florida Lemon Law is specific and will offer Saturn ample opportunity to try to solve the problem. The result will be that with 4000 current miles and five engine check incidents on the books, in the six months it will take see the Lemon Law Process through, the car could be at the dealership six more times. Should the Lemon Law claim result in not being changed out of the vehicle, I will still get out of the Green Line in favor of another hybrid.
This is great. Wait until you guys get a load of this. So two days ago the engine light came on (to recap, i've already had the battery harness replaced after losing all power on the expressway)...so the engine light comes on and I drive directly to the dealer, get a loaner and I'm on my way. I call them later that day and they say it is telling them the battery is now overheating. So they need more time. Okay. Two days go by and I call them again. The poor service tech is all embarassed and says "I don't even know how to say this, but we've been working with corporate and they tell me that the battery isn't getting proper air ventilation and you need to not put so much stuff in the back"
uh...what? I bought an SUV and can't put stuff in the back? Just so you know, all this "stuff" I had back there was one stroller, one small umbrella stroller and a diaper bag. That's it.
So I called corporate and started the dance again. After 2 days of avoiding me, they call back to tell me to drive with less stuff in the back. And that's their answer.
I will NEVER NEVER buy Saturn again as long as I live and I will tell everyone I meet not to buy them either. I feel sorry for my dealership guys because they've been great but they can't make the decisions.
My favorite part of talking to corporate was when "Kiana" told me there was no one else to talk to, this is the end of the line unless I want to write a letter to the GM who doesn't take phone calls. I asked "Kiana" for a supervisor and she said there isn't one. I hung up, called back and told the next brainstem my predicament he said he would put in a request for a supervisor (oh so now there IS a supervisor?) and he assured me yes, there is one above "Kiana" and he/she will call me tomorrow.
"So I called corporate and started the dance again. After 2 days of avoiding me, they call back to tell me to drive with less stuff in the back. And that's their answer."
Unless their advertising specifically limited the amount of "stuff" you could carry back there, I suggest you hire a lawyer and persue a lemon law or other action. They advertise a certain Cu. Ft. of capacity, and they have to match that capacity, or they sold the vehicle dishonestly. Fraud is illegal and the courts (and Saturn) know this.
I'm sure you're right, I just think it's a shame that Saturn won't make it right. I don't want to have to get a lawyer and go through all this nonsense! They should replace the car! If any of you out there are having battery problems, make them check the ventilation.
I think the Saturn Vue Greenline is turning out to be a stinker!
Well hello Kyle, since I wrote this I was able to beg, cry and sneak my way onto the voicemail of someone who appears to give a damn. Saturn has now reopened my case, says I've been misinformed (no kidding) and they are making me be the guinea pig to see what's wrong with it so I'm driving around with a monitoring device. I'm not really happy with this situation either. But it's apparently the best they can do at the moment. What bothers me is that I bought a brand new car. I put $5000 down on it and if it turns out to be a $27,000 piece of $@!?, I'm going to end up eating it and I don't think it's right. Saturn should take more responsibility for their design. The hybrid is obviously having MULTIPLE problems for MULTIPLE people and the customer service I have been getting is totally unacceptable. Do you realize that two "Area Managers" I spoke with regarding this overheating problem told me there was no one else to speak to and the case was closed with Saturn offering me the solution of "drive with less stuff in the back". What kind of customer service is that? And furthermore, the person with whom I am dealing presently (Danielle) says they did nothing wrong! I personally think your "Area Managers" should be automatically demoted if they ever tell a customer they can't speak to a supervisor! I'm very angry at the treatment I've received from Saturn. I don't appreciate being defrauded and then treated badly on top of it!
Here's the open case number on my problem 1-24949106 i don't have the vehicle id number
but we could certainly use all the help we can get. just for the record, my husband has owned 8 GM vehicles in his life and he's only 31. He will never buy another one again after the way we've been treated. One customer might not hurt GM, but what about one customer who very likely could have bought on an average a car a year for the rest of his life? That's 70, possibly 80 vehicles. At 30k a car, that's over $2 million!!! I would think GM would want to keep a customer like that.
"Saturn has now reopened my case, says I've been misinformed (no kidding) and they are making me be the guinea pig to see what's wrong with it so I'm driving around with a monitoring device. I'm not really happy with this situation either."
Unless the compensate you for the inconvenience, my opinion is that they should buy the car back from you and test it themselves. Of course, they SHOULD have tested it BEFORE they sold the hybrid Vue.
Initial gas mileage was 20-22 MPG. I called dealer, he said "try another tank or two." By the time I became insistent, it was past the 30-day/3,000 trade-in by one day.
My mileage has not risen. Dealership has been very responsive, and has made numerous modifications, i.e., nitrogen in tires, etc. Service manager has test-driven car three times: twice for 75-80 miles, once for a full tank. They say they're getting 30-31 MPG.
I drive carefully. Don't gun the engine from stoplights. I'd be thrilled to get 30-31 MPG.
Very frustrated. Love the car otherwise, but at this rate, the mileage I'd expected (30), or the mileage I'd ACCEPT (less), and the difference in what I'm getting, is going to cost me $800-$1,000 a year.
Do I have any remedies/ I asked to drive another Vue, and dealer did not agree. I have always been able to "milk" more miles out of a car than the industry standard. I think I got a lemon.
Help, anyone? Car now has 15,000 miles, and I'm consistently getting 21 MPG. Mixed city and highway about 50-50. Green eco lite on a lot...
Do you excellerate over 2000 rpms? My mileage wasn't so great either until i started babysitting the rpms. i was getting 21 and i am now getting about 28 mpg and I'm getting about 400 miles to a tank. it feels like you're crawling, but if you consistently keep the needle under 2000 rpms you'll get a lot more out of a tank. In fact, I got 100 more miles out of my tank by just watching the rpms. and the truth is, you get where you're going in the same amount of time. all the idiots that go around me all mad end up at the same red light further down the road. If you haven't done so, try that.
You're right, megfox, but isn't it a bit suspect that you have to try so hard to get good mileage from your new hybrid? I get about 29mph from mine in mixed driving and don't have to be nearly as creative, although I do drive a little slower now. It seems to me you're not getting what you should from the hybrid mechanism, though this forum seems to indicate none of us are really sure what that ought to be. Don't be happy with 28 if you have to "milk" it - hypermilers will tell you that strategy will get the same results from a standard 4 cylinder.
i agree with you about the gas mileage, i am getting about 23 mpg city, 28 freeway. my friends all tell me that i drive like a little old lady (which i am) I really thought that i would be getting the high end of the mileage estimate. i don't drive around with stuff in the back of the car unless i have been grocery shopping or something like that & rarely is anyone else in the car with me. I am happy with the vehicle on the whole, but still think that i should have gone for the ford escape hybrid.
but your going to get more mpg on any vehicle if you keep the rpms at 2000 or under. that's true for any car. it's wise driving AND if you notice, you will always get less mileage on a car than what is advertised if you don't drive it conservatively. the dealer estimates are based on easy acceleration and driving the speed limit. anyone who speeds or accelerates quickly is going to burn more gas than someone who doesn't.
Keep in mind what's effecting your mileage. This car has an automatically shifted manual transmission. It's going to get similar mileage to what you see from the stick version with the exception of the following factors: 1) It's a lot heavier due to all of those batteries and the electric motor (lowers mileage) 2) It recaptures a portion of the kinetic energy of the vehicle when slowing or breaking 3) That energy is then recycled as an additional power boost when accelerating or going up hill 4) The engine shuts off when stopped
So you notice that when going up hill or down-shifting for additional power (when using cruise control) there is a large amount of wiggle-room for your actual speed. I've seen it going around +/-5mph around the current cruising speed. If you're not using cruise and "power through" that lag, you're eliminating much of that benefit.
Also, it's summer. If you have the AC switched to "yellow mode", you're loosing all of the benefit of the shut-off when stopped.
For what it's worth, our overall mileage has improved since getting the wiring harness and it seems that the car performs better. I think we've been seeing around 25-27 mpg, but haven't been tracking religiously.
We have owned a Vue Hybrid since Dec. 2006. Loved the car at first. By late March, I was starting to have check engine lights come on. Each trip into the dealership I was told it was fixed and safe to drive. By the end of May it died while I was driving the car. We must have been on the early end of the harness problem because it took over 10 days to ship the part straight from the factory. I was starting to regain confidence in the car when in early September it started acting up again. It would jump out of auto stop at lights with such a jolt that I was jamming my foot on the brake because it felt like it would surge forward. This happened several times. Another time I was waiting to make a left in traffic. The car was in auto stop, when I put my foot on the gas I had the same lurching sensation but the car wouldn't accelerate. It eventually responded. Talk about getting your adrenaline pumping. By mid September, I had the check engine light on. The car wasn't going into auto stop on most trips. Took it to the dealer, they said it was fixed and safe to drive. Two days later the light is back on. The car is behaving the same way by not going into auto stop. Return to the dealer. Now they feel it is a battery problem. Only problem, a new battery will not be available until Oct. 8. Each time the dealership is very nice. However it doesn't change the fact that our primary family car is unreliable, and I am afraid to put my children in it. My husband and I decide forgo the cost and just get into a reliable car. We told the dealer we would like to trade it in and buy a new Vue. The dealer offers us $16000 for a car we paid $26,000 to buy 10 months ago. They cited that the car wasn't very desirable so they wasn't much market value for it. I am just sitting here trying to figure out our next step.
As previously posted, I had my harness battery problem fixed in August. Guess what? It's back in today for the same darn problem. Now of course, it's "fixed" again. But the car died over an hour from my house so I get to load the kids up and drive for half the day to get a car I'd rather see blown up. I'm getting really sick of this. I will never buy a Saturn again.
I have made it my personal mission in life to share my Saturn horror story with every person I ever meet. It may not help me with this piece of crap, but it may save someone else from making the same mistake.
In contrast to the persons who post here who have problems (why would you post a message if you did not have problems), my Saturn Vue Hybrid seems to be working fine (after getting the new harness). "Knock on wood" to bless the car, and prevent any further issues. I have a theory that persons who continue to have problems, have had their RECHARGING HYBRID BATTERY damaged by the failure of the WIRING HARNESS and so it does not hold a charge and work correctly. Until the battery gets replaced the vehicle will have problems. In states that have NO LEMON LAW I think that people will have problems getting the vehicle replaced, but Saturn folks seem to be reading the stories here, thus you might get some help.
The wife and I did get the FULL COVERAGE warrentee for the term of the loan (five years) so we have less concern and worries about what happens, down the road. We also have a Saturn dealership in our town.
Every person who buys a FIRST OF ITS KIND model in a new model year will have these hard stories of vehicle failures. I often wonder why this is unexpected. The new model is an EXPERIMENT until all the small issues are worked out. My question now is, will Saturn keep making this vehicle in a Hybrid model?
I suggest you persue lemon law action. If you have had the vehicle out of service for a combined 30 days, or in the shop for the same issue three times, in the first year, you can make the dealer take the vehicle back (at least under CA laws - other states may be different).
If you are successful you won't have to pay a penny - they will take the vehicle back and you will be free to buy another (presumably ICE) Vue, or any other brand or vehicle.
I picked up my car today. It made it half way home before it broke again. I have a lemon law attorney so hopefully I won't have to deal with this car for much longer.
Also, wanted to give an FYI, my airbag check light came on and off for a few days before it went off for good a couple weeks back. When I took it in, they checked it and found the airbag was not working. So if you have had the light go on and think it's ok because it went off, I'd recommend having it checked.
And for the PP, your response came off a bit condesending. I may have just read it wrong as I'm a bit testy about this car. Yes, it's a first year car. I expect glitches. I don't expect perfection. But I DO expect to be able to drive it. In the 6 months I have had it, I've had the pleasure to be on first name basis with the tow truck driver (by some fluke, the same driver gets me every time!), rental car business, and now 3 different dealers. It becomes inoperable at least once a month. I don't see how you can justify that.
"I picked up my car today. It made it half way home before it broke again. I have a lemon law attorney so hopefully I won't have to deal with this car for much longer."
Just out of curiosity, who pays for the lemon law attorney?
Kyle I sent the vehicle identification number to your attention in an email to email@saturn.com. I sent it yesterday. Hopefully it will make its way to you.
I don't think "Kyle" exists. I think it's a scam. He never did contact me either. Saturn is really not interested in helping us. They're interested in selling NEW people their faulty vehicles. Those of us who are stuck with them are not important anymore, now that they have us by the cohones. I'm totally disgusted with Saturn and I refuse to talk to them anymore without a lawyer. If any of you are in IL, I could recommend Consumer Legal Services, P.C. 630-834-4100 The same day I contacted them with my story I heard from them. I have a case and so do all of you. Going up against Saturn (with all the lawyers in the world at their disposal) without representation for your interests could be devestating. I'm not willing to risk it. I think Saturn is looking out for Saturn. Bottom line. The idea that they could let me drive off their lot with a baby in the back of a vehicle they KNEW could die at any moment makes me sick. Be careful. Saturn doesn't care about you.
If you check my profile, you'll see that my e-mail address is public. Do a quick Google search on Kyle Johnson Saturn and it will be confirmed that I am the Saturn Communications Director.
I helped get your case reopened. As of last Friday, you'd had no further trouble with the vehicle and someone is to contact you tomorrow and if anything happened in the interim you were to contact Danyell, correct?
Hello Kyle, I have had further trouble with the vehicle. They installed a monitoring device in it last week. The engine light came on on Sunday. Now it's back at the dealer. The battery pack now has to be replaced due to a "bad sensor" or something. However, I don't think that's it! There are too many people having the same difficulties. Are all the sensors bad? Or just a handful? or more likely, is the Greenline defective? So far, all evidence points to yes. Thank you for any help you gave in helping reopen the case. Danyell did not tell me to contact her if I had a problem. I was supposed to bring it back to the dealer. Frankly, I'm tired of talking to Saturn. They are offering me nothing which makes me believe I need better representation than just myself. Obviously, Saturn doesn't care about one little person. The way we've been treated through this whole ordeal is outrageous. Saturn has not once offered me anything for my trouble which has been CONSIDERABLE. No extended warranty, no trade in...nothing. I would settle for a 2007 COMPRABLE Vue with the same mileage and the same upgrades. My vehicle is fully loaded with leather and a sun roof. I would not settle for less. But Saturn isn't even offering me an extended warranty let alone another car. I am not comfortable driving the Greenline. It is unsafe! I have a small child. I don't want to be driving a death trap. And if something should happen to us while I'm in that car, Saturn will be VERY sorry considering all the prior knowledge it has had regarding the Greenline and it's multitudinous problems. All we want is to get what we paid for. Right now I have a $27000 piece of CRAP that I'm scared to drive. I want a $27,000 working vehicle. Is that too much to ask? Until Saturn makes this right, I will be shouting from the rooftops to anyone who will listen to STAY AWAY FROM SATURN. So now I'm serious and I've retained representation. Saturn will be hearing from my lawyer. And it's a shame it had to go this far. It is Saturn's fault for not testing this vehicle before putting it on the market. I should not have to pay for Saturn's mistakes and my child should certainly not have to be injured or killed by being a guinea pig for Saturn. I wonder what the local paper would think about this? That's my next move. It makes a great story, don't you think? And just think, if Saturn had done what they should and offered me (and these other people) some kind of compensation or trade-in, I wouldn't be on the verge of calling ABC! Too late. Sorry.
Everybody here with problems, send me your email addresses. Let's get together and out Saturn on the news. We need a bigger bully pulpit.
"Are all the sensors bad? Or just a handful? or more likely, is the Greenline defective? So far, all evidence points to yes. "
The concept behind the hybridization (belt alternator) in the Vue is not new, but this is a new design. I think they are having both production and design issues. Toyota went through a lot of work before their software was right, and even the Gen 2 had a major software problem in the first year (2004-2005).
It seems to me that Saturn wanted to get a Hybrid out the door and didn't fully test the prototypes. But that is just my opinion.
I say this because so far as I can tell the concepts behind the hybridization are sound.
Good luck on your efforts for justice, and I hope you can keep your cool.
"Do a quick Google search on Kyle Johnson Saturn and it will be confirmed that I am the Saturn Communications Director. "
If you have any pull, advise Saturn to buy back that hybrid Vue and take it apart to see what is wrong. Then fix the design issues or make your suppliers fix the parts. Take a look at the CR-V A/C Compressor forum to see how Honda is handling a difficult series of parts failures; it is a good example of dedication to quality.
Supply megfox with an ICE VUE. You've lost her as a satisfied Greenline customer.
Since my first posting I have had continuous problems. I have had the BCM replaced and the battery harness added but I am still having problems with the battery light & check engine light coming on. When I brought the car in for service & they couldn't duplicate the problem they said it was corrected. So when the lights came on I immediately brought it to the dealer (2nd dealer since the one I bought the car from went out of business)and they got a hybrid battery code. Now they had to contact the area rep & see if they could order me a new hybrid battery. They finally got the OK & when it came in I got a call to bring the car in for service. They ordered the wrong battery & now they have had my car in the dealership for 16 days & the right part still hasn't come in. I also had no satisifaction from customer service (Danielle) who was no help at all. My car has now been out of service for 31 days & they still have it. I have started a claim with Better Business and I hope to get out of the car altogether. Saturn's customer service has been terrible. They have done nothing to solve the problems and from what I'm reading here they don't care & the problem doesn't exist either.
you're absolutely right. they DON'T care about you which is why you should get a lawyer. whatever saturn offers you (if anything) is going to be the least they can get away with. protect your interests and retain counsel. there are plenty of lemon law lawyers who won't charge you a penny if you have a case and you do have a case.
I'm way beyond keeping my cool. I lost my cool the moment I lost power steering going around a clover leaf on an expressway at 40 mph. Saturn is just lucky I'm a competent driver or they could be facing a wrongful death suit right now. It is one thing if lights just come on and off. no big deal. but when the problems in the car cause it to shut down while you're driving....that's unnaceptable! And for them to tell me...nevermind. my head is starting to throb just thinking about it. i need an advil.
Despite having lived the GM nightmares before ('96 Jimmy multi-problems) and having had good success with a Toyota product since (reliable and fuel efficient), I'd actually considered purchasing a Saturn hybrid (bargain hunting and hoping GM had improved quality) but am very much convinced I'll continue staying as far away from GM products as I can ... Would suggest Kyle pass this up to corporate, but it is evident their business model precludes customer satisfaction, else there'd have been a recall months ago. Anecdotal, perhaps, but it sure seems Japanese automakers don't hesitate to initiate recalls whereas it seems U.S automakers are ordered by courts, only then comply, dragging their nails all the while. They seem to never get it, that quality is what makes automobiles successful (Toyota, Honda clearly understand) ... I will now go to the Escape hybrid thread to see if Ford has also ignored their equally dismal quality record.
before you spit out anymore hogwash on how great Toyota is on their recalls etc. I suggest you wander over to the 2007 Toyota Camry problems and repairs section and you will see yourself in the many, many faces of unhappy Camry owners. Just goes to show you that no car is perfect.
Mine is still in the shop. Now they are replacing the battery pack and the alternator. I am so disgusted by this whole situation.
I have been in contact with the area manager and when I expressed my fear of putting my three kids in the car, including the fact that when it breaks the tow truck can't take me with 3 kids and car seats so we are stranded on the freeway as my husband is overseas, his reply was that they weren't concerned with the safety of the car, there concern is that they get it out of the service department.
I also have been suffering with my poor choice in buying a Saturn Vue Hybrid. I purchased the vehicle last spring and have been subject to problems since then. My first event was a lunging and jerking that scared the heck out of me. If a car or pedestrian were in front of me I would have hit them. The car lost total power and I felt totally out of control. All engine lights were on and I could not restart the car. I had it towed into Saturn Service where they said it was a frayed wire. I had a few more similar events over the summer but the car was still driveable. During all this time my mpg was only 22 - pretty poor for a hybrid. I took the car in again for service and they replaced the electrical harness. At this time I let them know how angry I was, not to mention how scared I was to drive the car. I really don't want to drive my grandchildren around in some car that is this unpredictable. They said they "understood" how I felt even though the car was now "fixed". They offered to get me into a car I would feel more comfortable with, but when it came down to it they wanted to give me $6,500 less than what I paid for my car just months before. This offer was to move me into another Vue (non-hybrid) without leather, sunroof, and some other extra's my hybrid did possess. I couldn't believe they wanted to take advantage of my concerns about a car they sold me. I told them no, of course. About 10 days later I had another clunking and lunging episode at a stop sign in which the car seems to want to jump into a high speed all by itself. It really is frightening. I took it to service and they said all hybrids do this. I really am so stressed out about this car. I need to find some remedy, legal or other wise. Does anyone have any suggestions?
fairfield1- look into your state's lemon law. For example, in Ca you need to offer them 3 attempts to fix the problem or 30 days in service. If you satisfy your state's requirements I would recommend contacting an attorney. Obviously, by everyone's experiences here Saturn could care less about our situations and the only option you have is legal. Good luck.
Keep all your service receipts and contact a lawyer. The sooner the better. There is a magic mileage number where you won't get anything. No one knows what it is but the lower the miles the better your chances of getting something from saturn.
"It is one thing if lights just come on and off. no big deal. but when the problems in the car cause it to shut down while you're driving....that's unnaceptable! And for them to tell me...nevermind. my head is starting to throb just thinking about it. i need an advil."
Klingon proverb: "Revenge is a dish best served cold". Don't get angry with Saturn - get even.
I'm glad to hear that you got out of that situation with the power steering. That is trouble with these modern cars - everything is electrical, and if the power has problems, zap! you can lose a lot of functionality...
I found this forum today after looking for some info, any info, on line about how to contact an actual person with a real name at Saturn. We too have a Vue hybrid which has developed the "check engine/battery" problem, we also had the "wiring harness" repair done and it hasn't helped. So far, the car has been in the shop 12 days this time, with no end in sight. Saturn "customer service" (sic) is a bad joke.
I tried sending an e-mail to this Kyle Johnson guy - Of course he hasn't replied. Also, I was promised a call today from a "supervisor". Can you guess ? No call.
Saturn have absolutely no right to sell a car that doesn't work and that they cannot fix. I will never, ever buy a Saturn again.
My question now is, does anybody know an attorney who can help us in New York - We're covered under the state lemon law up to 18,000 miles - The car has 14 and change on it now. I do not trust this vehicle, and I want an exchange or a refund. Any help or referrals anybody could give I would appreciate.
I post with trepidation after reading 8 (!) pages of posts about a questionable vehicle. Do any of you own a 2008? Were problems fixed in the new model?
Comments
As Kallop stated, the directions for filling for arbitration are at the back of the owner's manual. Here are the basics on the CA Lemon Law. And here is more information on the Arbitration Certification Program. I intend to file for arbitration on the grounds that my vehicle has been out of service for more than 30 days in the first 18 months. Those that are interested should read the Lemon Aid brochure.
So sorry about the repeat problems, Serrdon and others. I will let you know what I learn by going through the arbitration process.
Your comments about the rough downshifting caught my attention. I've also experienced the same thing. Immediately after I bought the car, I told the salesman about it. Wanted him to ride with me so I could show him, but he basically patted me on the head and said, "Haven't you ever owned a car with ABS?" How insulting.....
Well, I let it go, but the wobbly, clunky feeling continued for some time. Have to say it has smoothed out, and doesn't feel as bad as it used to. I've got over 6,000 miles on my car. Don't understand the callibration thing, and if someone wouldn't mind elaborating a bit on it, I would appreciate it.
Also, someone else mentioned the airbag light coming on. Yep, mine too. It's been in the shop twice for that particular problem. I've been told when the light comes on, airbags will not inflate, so it's unsafe to drive. It came on once more after being "fixed" last time, but hasn't happened again for a few weeks.
Thing is, I really like how this little SUV drives. Really a shame it's got so many problems. Oh, and my mileage improves dramatically when I leave the air condition off. Still not the sticker mileage, but better than it was. So, if I want hybrid mileage performance, I have to put up with sweating...
I am in the process of filing a Lemon Law for my Green Line. Fifth trip to the dealer with the check engine light on; two times on the hook. Two freeway shut-offs. Pre-recall wire harness modification was doneafter the second time towed in. The cpu's have been program "upgraded" three times. Still, the rough idle persists as does rough shifting and numerous rattles and groans when going around corners. Dispite how well the little SUV drives and how good the mileage (post wire harness) is, I have lost confidence in the saftey and reliability of the vehicle.
The Florida Lemon Law is specific and will offer Saturn ample opportunity to try to solve the problem. The result will be that with 4000 current miles and five engine check incidents on the books, in the six months it will take see the Lemon Law Process through, the car could be at the dealership six more times. Should the Lemon Law claim result in not being changed out of the vehicle, I will still get out of the Green Line in favor of another hybrid.
uh...what? I bought an SUV and can't put stuff in the back? Just so you know, all this "stuff" I had back there was one stroller, one small umbrella stroller and a diaper bag. That's it.
So I called corporate and started the dance again. After 2 days of avoiding me, they call back to tell me to drive with less stuff in the back. And that's their answer.
I will NEVER NEVER buy Saturn again as long as I live and I will tell everyone I meet not to buy them either. I feel sorry for my dealership guys because they've been great but they can't make the decisions.
My favorite part of talking to corporate was when "Kiana" told me there was no one else to talk to, this is the end of the line unless I want to write a letter to the GM who doesn't take phone calls. I asked "Kiana" for a supervisor and she said there isn't one. I hung up, called back and told the next brainstem my predicament he said he would put in a request for a supervisor (oh so now there IS a supervisor?) and he assured me yes, there is one above "Kiana" and he/she will call me tomorrow.
Re-think Saturn. Buy Japanese!
Unless their advertising specifically limited the amount of "stuff" you could carry back there, I suggest you hire a lawyer and persue a lemon law or other action. They advertise a certain Cu. Ft. of capacity, and they have to match that capacity, or they sold the vehicle dishonestly. Fraud is illegal and the courts (and Saturn) know this.
I think the Saturn Vue Greenline is turning out to be a stinker!
Best regards,
Kyle Johnson
Saturn Communications Director
Here's the open case number on my problem 1-24949106
i don't have the vehicle id number
but we could certainly use all the help we can get. just for the record, my husband has owned 8 GM vehicles in his life and he's only 31. He will never buy another one again after the way we've been treated. One customer might not hurt GM, but what about one customer who very likely could have bought on an average a car a year for the rest of his life? That's 70, possibly 80 vehicles. At 30k a car, that's over $2 million!!! I would think GM would want to keep a customer like that.
You can read the VIN from the outside of the vehicle - it is displayed at the base of the windshield where the driver looks out.
However, I'm not sure about posting the VIN on the Internet. You might want to contact the person privately rather than post to this forum.
Unless the compensate you for the inconvenience, my opinion is that they should buy the car back from you and test it themselves. Of course, they SHOULD have tested it BEFORE they sold the hybrid Vue.
Initial gas mileage was 20-22 MPG. I called dealer, he said "try another tank or two." By the time I became insistent, it was past the 30-day/3,000 trade-in by one day.
My mileage has not risen. Dealership has been very responsive, and has made numerous modifications, i.e., nitrogen in tires, etc. Service manager has test-driven car three times: twice for 75-80 miles, once for a full tank. They say they're getting 30-31 MPG.
I drive carefully. Don't gun the engine from stoplights. I'd be thrilled to get 30-31 MPG.
Very frustrated. Love the car otherwise, but at this rate, the mileage I'd expected (30), or the mileage I'd ACCEPT (less), and the difference in what I'm getting, is going to cost me $800-$1,000 a year.
Do I have any remedies/ I asked to drive another Vue, and dealer did not agree. I have always been able to "milk" more miles out of a car than the industry standard. I think I got a lemon.
Help, anyone? Car now has 15,000 miles, and I'm consistently getting 21 MPG. Mixed city and highway about 50-50. Green eco lite on a lot...
1) It's a lot heavier due to all of those batteries and the electric motor (lowers mileage)
2) It recaptures a portion of the kinetic energy of the vehicle when slowing or breaking
3) That energy is then recycled as an additional power boost when accelerating or going up hill
4) The engine shuts off when stopped
So you notice that when going up hill or down-shifting for additional power (when using cruise control) there is a large amount of wiggle-room for your actual speed. I've seen it going around +/-5mph around the current cruising speed. If you're not using cruise and "power through" that lag, you're eliminating much of that benefit.
Also, it's summer. If you have the AC switched to "yellow mode", you're loosing all of the benefit of the shut-off when stopped.
For what it's worth, our overall mileage has improved since getting the wiring harness and it seems that the car performs better. I think we've been seeing around 25-27 mpg, but haven't been tracking religiously.
Kyle Johnson
Saturn Communications
I have made it my personal mission in life to share my Saturn horror story with every person I ever meet. It may not help me with this piece of crap, but it may save someone else from making the same mistake.
The wife and I did get the FULL COVERAGE warrentee for the term of the loan (five years) so we have less concern and worries about what happens, down the road. We also have a Saturn dealership in our town.
Every person who buys a FIRST OF ITS KIND model in a new model year will have these hard stories of vehicle failures. I often wonder why this is unexpected. The new model is an EXPERIMENT until all the small issues are worked out. My question now is, will Saturn keep making this vehicle in a Hybrid model?
If you are successful you won't have to pay a penny - they will take the vehicle back and you will be free to buy another (presumably ICE) Vue, or any other brand or vehicle.
Also, wanted to give an FYI, my airbag check light came on and off for a few days before it went off for good a couple weeks back. When I took it in, they checked it and found the airbag was not working. So if you have had the light go on and think it's ok because it went off, I'd recommend having it checked.
And for the PP, your response came off a bit condesending. I may have just read it wrong as I'm a bit testy about this car. Yes, it's a first year car. I expect glitches. I don't expect perfection. But I DO expect to be able to drive it. In the 6 months I have had it, I've had the pleasure to be on first name basis with the tow truck driver (by some fluke, the same driver gets me every time!), rental car business, and now 3 different dealers. It becomes inoperable at least once a month. I don't see how you can justify that.
Just out of curiosity, who pays for the lemon law attorney?
I sent the vehicle identification number to your attention in an email to email@saturn.com. I sent it yesterday. Hopefully it will make its way to you.
Thanks.
I helped get your case reopened. As of last Friday, you'd had no further trouble with the vehicle and someone is to contact you tomorrow and if anything happened in the interim you were to contact Danyell, correct?
I have had further trouble with the vehicle. They installed a monitoring device in it last week. The engine light came on on Sunday. Now it's back at the dealer. The battery pack now has to be replaced due to a "bad sensor" or something. However, I don't think that's it! There are too many people having the same difficulties. Are all the sensors bad? Or just a handful? or more likely, is the Greenline defective? So far, all evidence points to yes. Thank you for any help you gave in helping reopen the case. Danyell did not tell me to contact her if I had a problem. I was supposed to bring it back to the dealer. Frankly, I'm tired of talking to Saturn. They are offering me nothing which makes me believe I need better representation than just myself. Obviously, Saturn doesn't care about one little person. The way we've been treated through this whole ordeal is outrageous. Saturn has not once offered me anything for my trouble which has been CONSIDERABLE. No extended warranty, no trade in...nothing. I would settle for a 2007 COMPRABLE Vue with the same mileage and the same upgrades. My vehicle is fully loaded with leather and a sun roof. I would not settle for less. But Saturn isn't even offering me an extended warranty let alone another car. I am not comfortable driving the Greenline. It is unsafe! I have a small child. I don't want to be driving a death trap. And if something should happen to us while I'm in that car, Saturn will be VERY sorry considering all the prior knowledge it has had regarding the Greenline and it's multitudinous problems. All we want is to get what we paid for. Right now I have a $27000 piece of CRAP that I'm scared to drive. I want a $27,000 working vehicle. Is that too much to ask? Until Saturn makes this right, I will be shouting from the rooftops to anyone who will listen to STAY AWAY FROM SATURN. So now I'm serious and I've retained representation. Saturn will be hearing from my lawyer. And it's a shame it had to go this far. It is Saturn's fault for not testing this vehicle before putting it on the market. I should not have to pay for Saturn's mistakes and my child should certainly not have to be injured or killed by being a guinea pig for Saturn. I wonder what the local paper would think about this? That's my next move. It makes a great story, don't you think? And just think, if Saturn had done what they should and offered me (and these other people) some kind of compensation or trade-in, I wouldn't be on the verge of calling ABC! Too late. Sorry.
Everybody here with problems, send me your email addresses. Let's get together and out Saturn on the news. We need a bigger bully pulpit.
The concept behind the hybridization (belt alternator) in the Vue is not new, but this is a new design. I think they are having both production and design issues. Toyota went through a lot of work before their software was right, and even the Gen 2 had a major software problem in the first year (2004-2005).
It seems to me that Saturn wanted to get a Hybrid out the door and didn't fully test the prototypes. But that is just my opinion.
I say this because so far as I can tell the concepts behind the hybridization are sound.
Good luck on your efforts for justice, and I hope you can keep your cool.
If you have any pull, advise Saturn to buy back that hybrid Vue and take it apart to see what is wrong. Then fix the design issues or make your suppliers fix the parts. Take a look at the CR-V A/C Compressor forum to see how Honda is handling a difficult series of parts failures; it is a good example of dedication to quality.
Supply megfox with an ICE VUE. You've lost her as a satisfied Greenline customer.
I have been in contact with the area manager and when I expressed my fear of putting my three kids in the car, including the fact that when it breaks the tow truck can't take me with 3 kids and car seats so we are stranded on the freeway as my husband is overseas, his reply was that they weren't concerned with the safety of the car, there concern is that they get it out of the service department.
I guess that says it all.
Klingon proverb: "Revenge is a dish best served cold". Don't get angry with Saturn - get even.
I'm glad to hear that you got out of that situation with the power steering. That is trouble with these modern cars - everything is electrical, and if the power has problems, zap! you can lose a lot of functionality...
Just to clarify, that is 30 days out of service - in other words, at the dealer's repair shop instead of in your possession.
I found this forum today after looking for some info, any info, on line about how to contact an actual person with a real name at Saturn. We too have a Vue hybrid which has developed the "check engine/battery" problem, we also had the "wiring harness" repair done and it hasn't helped. So far, the car has been in the shop 12 days this time, with no end in sight. Saturn "customer service" (sic) is a bad joke.
I tried sending an e-mail to this Kyle Johnson guy - Of course he hasn't replied. Also, I was promised a call today from a "supervisor". Can you guess ? No call.
Saturn have absolutely no right to sell a car that doesn't work and that they cannot fix. I will never, ever buy a Saturn again.
My question now is, does anybody know an attorney who can help us in New York - We're covered under the state lemon law up to 18,000 miles - The car has 14 and change on it now. I do not trust this vehicle, and I want an exchange or a refund. Any help or referrals anybody could give I would appreciate.
thanks.
:lemon: :lemon: :lemon:
janet