Subaru Forester (up to 2005)

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Comments

  • mpgmanmpgman Member Posts: 723
    Thanks for the advice.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Welcome.

    One other thought, if you can wait, the 05s will drop in price, my guess is around April or May next year. The 06 is supposed to carry a face-lift, and who knows what kind of improvements (or cost cutting) will come with it.

    Timing is right for a 2004 right now, though.

    -juice
  • njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
    and saw tons of foresters on the lot. a few bajas, one sti and zero legacy/outbacks
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Legacys must be selling. We know Outbacks always do.

    -juice
  • fredm1fredm1 Member Posts: 2
    I change my own oil & filter on my 2002 Forester. One real pain is the plastic pan under the oil pan. I remove four bolts (two in front, spaced widely apart, two in the back, spaced closely), which allows me to move the thing around enough so I can change the filter. Still a pain, though. It is not obvious to me how to remove the thing entirely. Any easy way to remove the thing temporarily to make it easier to change the oil?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    My 1998 also had two retaining clips in the wheel well.

    To be honest I removed mine and it hasn't made any difference. The engine doesn't even look dirty.

    The cover is cosmetic, note that a lot of other Subies with the same engine do not have it.

    -juice
  • njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
    drove by again today. legacy sedans now out front. must have seen my post.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Maybe they were re-arranging their parking lot, and had moved them out temporarily.

    Or maybe they all sold and they got a new allocation. :o)

    -juice
  • edunnettedunnett Member Posts: 553
    Ditto on what Juice said. On my '01 I had the same annoying 'skid plate' that interfered with oil changes. Pop out the plastic retaining clips by pushing out from the inside at each wheel well. I left mine off for months to a year at a time because I was too lazy. The car was never the worse for the wear - even after driving on bunches of remote dirt roads. On the newer models they have made an access "port" through the skid plate that we can get at the filter and drain bolt through w/o removing the skid plate entirely. Whew.
    Elissa
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Forester and Outback have it, but I think other Subies don't. It's cosmetic, how many subie owners are tossing up mud like in those commercials?

    Tread lightly. ;-)

    -juice
  • edunnettedunnett Member Posts: 553
    moi! my whole undercarriage is colored brown/orange from a strange colored mud that even the power washer didn't completely wash off. oddly though, the mud flaps worked so well, that there was no mud or even rock chips on the paint.
    elissa
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I should talk, I had to wash the sand off my undercarriage after a week in the Outer Banks.

    -juice
  • once_for_allonce_for_all Member Posts: 1,640
    interesting how sand/mud collect on TOP of the skid plate, so much so that I have to clean it off in order to get the plastic screw locks to seat again when I do an oil change.
    John
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    So stuff is getting on the engine anyway, maybe from the grille or other openings, then probably dripping down.

    -juice
  • rochcomrochcom Member Posts: 247
    Probably a heavy iron/clay soil. A local town uses sand that is contaminated with the stuff to cover icy roads during the winter. Stepping in and out of the Forester got it on the carpet mats and it won't come off, PERIOD.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    The rallyarmor skidplates only have 5 bolts to take it off. I believe BlueSubie has one....

    -mike
  • kmurpkmurp Member Posts: 21
    Does anyone have any idea why Subaru does not offer this feature except in its' most expensive model ( VTD AWD)? Is there an engineering problem with implementation of a stability control system in the other two types of AWD systems which are found on the Forester. I only ask because the RAV4 and supposedly the 2005 CRV will offer this safty feature. Perhaps these vehicles are more prone to rollover and need it more that the Forester but it still seems to me to be a worthwhile safety item.
  • mpgmanmpgman Member Posts: 723
    Wonder if the 06s will get the side curtain air bags?
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Does anyone have any idea why Subaru does not offer this feature except in its' most expensive model ( VTD AWD)? Is there an engineering problem with implementation of a stability control system in the other two types of AWD systems which are found on the Forester. I only ask because the RAV4 and supposedly the 2005 CRV will offer this safty feature. Perhaps these vehicles are more prone to rollover and need it more that the Forester but it still seems to me to be a worthwhile safety item.

    My guess would be that because the CRV doesn't offer full-time AWD, they have opted for the stability control. Also the subies are a bit more setup for spirited driving and VDC can interfere with this, as well as causing problems offroad.

    -mike
  • bhanna261bhanna261 Member Posts: 11
    From USA Today:

    Honda, which has reports of 60 fires from oil-filter leaks in some CR-V sport-utility vehicles, plans to step up communication with its dealers and remind all oil-change shops of proper service procedures.

    The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (news - web sites) closed a preliminary investigation July 1 despite 22 reports of fires after oil changes in 2003 CR-Vs. Honda said then that it was notifying dealers that oil filters could stick and oil drips could cause fires if the work wasn't done properly.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Let's take the comparisons over to Subaru Forester vs Honda CR-V please. Thanks,

    Steve, Host
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    Yes, love the RallyArmor skidplate I bought from azpinstalls.com. If you do your own oil changes and don't do any off-roading/rough-roading, I would remove the plastic cover and leave it off. If you do go off the beaten path or want peace of mind, check out a RallyArmor skidplate!

    -Dennis
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Subaru's VDC is integrated with VTD AWD, so first we'd need to see VTD make it to the Forester line.

    Basically Subaru designed VDC to work in combination with that AWD system, a very sophisticated approach.

    Toyota takes a basic AWD system and adds VSC to it. It's less effective, though, in fact I think they even revised the system for 2005.

    So I guess Subaru has not gone "half way", and only builds the more sophisticated system (not unlike German AWD systems). Perhaps they should, though, now that Toyota (2004) and Honda (2005) will have it.

    -juice
  • cleeclee Member Posts: 3
    Any tips on replacing the fuel filter? I'm doing this as part of the 30k mile maintenance service.
  • joseph50joseph50 Member Posts: 235
    I'm going to go with the Goodrich Traction T/A's for my 2001 Forester S. I have the choice of either H or V speed rating.
    Same tread design, same price.
    Are there any advantages, given the Forester suspension setup and nature of the tire construction, in choosing one speed rating over the other?
    Thank you.
  • gmginsfogmginsfo Member Posts: 116
    Most of the earlier posts sum up my decision to go with the Forester XS I bought in May '03. I looked at and liked the Vibe but ultimately it just wasn't substantial enough for my taste. I liked the extra room in the Forester and the extra feeling of strength it gave. The Vibe just looked and souned a bit too "tinny" to me, so I went with the Forester and have been pretty pleased with it ever since. Next time, though, the XT gets a more serious look, as will the Escape Hybrid - especially if its safety ratings improve substantially, as this Ford stockholder feels they need to.
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    Fuel filter replacement is a pain on the 03. To depressurize the fuel line, you need to unplug the fuel pump relay, which is under the passenger side kick panel (to the lower right of the glove box). There are a couple relays there, I think the fuel pump relay is the one closest to the front of the car. Once it is disconnected, crank the engine and let it run dry. At that point you can safely change the fuel filter. Transfer hoses from the old filter to the new filter one by one so you don't get them mixed up, and make sure all the hoses and clamps are snug.

    Then reconnect the relay, and crank the engine until it starts. Go back to the filter and make sure there are no leaks while the engine is running.

    Here's the page out of the service manual that shows the location of the fuel pump relay.

    http://members.cox.net/craig.hunter/Fuel_Pump_Relay.pdf

    Craig

    ps: on my 02 Outback, you could pull a fuse to cut power to teh fuel pump rather than messing with the relay. Much simpler.
  • mpgmanmpgman Member Posts: 723
    Thanks for the post. Coming to the same conclusion. I was attracted by the Vibe's fuel economy and Toyota reliability, including a timing chain I believe vs a belt. The Subaru does feel a lot more substantial and has much more of a greenhouse effect. Just wish they offered side head curtains to round out the great safety package.
  • lfdallfdal Member Posts: 679
    If possible let it set overnight - 12 hours or so. At that point the fuel line pressure should be down to zip. Then just disconnect the hoses and drop in the new unit. This technique has worked on my wife's 03 OBW and my 04 XT.

    Of course, YMMV.

    Also remember to have disposable towels or cloths under the fuel lines so if any drips occur the fuel won't spill into the engine.
    Someone else on the boards here posted that tip quite a while ago. Please do remember to disconnect the battery.

    HTH

    Larry
  • speterson1speterson1 Member Posts: 228
    Here's something that hasn't worked in our Forester until shortly after we bought it, but since we never use the rear cupholders, we've just kind of ignored it. The rear cupholders that fold out of the back of the center console open up, and then the *slightest* (and I do mean slight, you can do this with one finger) force or tug will pull the whole thing right out of the center console! There seems to be no locking slot or any other means to keep it in there. Now what really puzzles me is I took a closer look this afternoon and to my eyes there is no damage whatsoever; no broken slots or pieces that I can see. Here's a picture of the console:
    http://img79.exs.cx/img79/1187/cupholderslots.jpg and here's a shot of the cupholder section removed so you can see the side slots:
    http://img79.exs.cx/img79/6882/cupholderside.jpg
    As you can see, the slots on the sides of the console show a little wear, but they seem ok and still functional. Anyone have this happen and have any suggestions before I have to take it to the dealer and have them look at it?

    Steve
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    My guess is that it's never been snapped in all the way. I would stick it in and give it a good firm push until you hear the fasteners engage.

    Craig
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    You guys are a riot!

    Fuel filter takes about 3 minutes tops.

    If the car is cool, just open the gas cap, let it sit for about 20 min.

    Then pop off the hoses, pull off the old one (under the hood) and then put it back on.

    close gas cap, and bam done.

    However in '04/05+ cars it's in the gas tank. Not looking forward to that change.

    -mike
  • speterson1speterson1 Member Posts: 228
    Tried that, it fits snugly like it's supposed to and won't go in any farther. At this point I don't really think there's a fix that I can do; I just want to see if any other Forester owners have encountered this before.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Fuel filter is right on top of the engine, on the driver's side. Careful with spilled fuel, have the new one in position. Also, open the gas cap to relieve any residual pressure in the fuel system.

    I've done it twice and it only spilled a couple of drops.

    V-rated tires are generally more heat resistant and offer more grip but don't last as long and they cost more. If you drive hard, it's worth the upgrade.

    -juice
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    PS My Miata has its filter near the gas tank, under the car, and it is a PITA!
  • cleeclee Member Posts: 3
    Joseph,

    I got the H rated tires from Costco as they stated the V rated tires are against the manufacturer's spec. and wouldn't sell it to me. Also, the H rated tires are rated for higher speeds. I love the tires so far.

    Clee
  • tazerelitazereli Member Posts: 241
    As has been stated before V rated tires are rated for a highter speed that H (149 vs 130 respectivly) The tire salesperson at Costco is a bit tire illiterate in my book. I could understand not allowing to go from H to S or T ratings, but a H to V is an upgrade, not downgrade. I'm not sure why the salesman wouldn't sell it as he was misinformed about the speed rating. Perhaps the V rated tire was of a different size that could cause rubbing on the forester? THat would be my guess as I've run across that before when I was a tire guy. Speed ratings are as follows.

    P - 93 MPH
    Q - 99 MPH
    S - 112 MPH
    T - 118 MPH
    U - 124 MPH (havent seen this one before)
    H - 130 MPH
    V - 149 MPH
    W - 168 MPH (a new rating from when I sold and installed tires)
    Y - 186 MPH (ditto the Y rating)
    Z - 149+ MPH

    I hope this helps a little.

    Regards,
    Kyle
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    The higher the speed rating, usually the less tire life you will get. Higher speed ratings often mean soft stickier rubber is used, and that wears faster than hard, less sticky rubber. For most owners, an H-rated tire is sufficient IMO.

    Bob
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    The higher the speed rating, usually the less tire life you will get. Higher speed ratings often mean soft stickier rubber is used, and that wears faster than hard, less sticky rubber. For most owners, an H-rated tire is sufficient IMO.

    Are you sure of that? I know that higher rated rubber will not stick as well at cooler/lower speeds. As for tread life, not sure how that goes, but just thinking back, and my higher-speed rated tires generally wear out in the same time as regulars however I have driven them much harder or on the track along the way.

    -mike
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    No, I have nothing to back that up other than a gut feeling. As a rule I think it's probably true, but I'm sure there are exceptions. My gut tells me that the average "S-rated" tire will outlast the average "V-rated" tire, but again, I have no proof.

    Don't all tires have "wear ratings" on them such as 93, 89, etc.? I'm not sure if they are rated "within" a given speed rating (H for example), or are rated against all car tires available?

    Anybody know for sure?

    Bob
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Wear ratings.

    60 is the bare min of a street tire
    180 is a low wear rating
    300 is a good wear rating
    400+ is excellent

    I've seen wear ratings on all different speed ratings varing from 60-400. For instance...

    Faulken Azenis have a rating of 60.
    Yokahama AVS Intermediates have a rating of 180.

    I think Tirerack lists the wear ratings on their site.

    -mike
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    You guys are a riot!

    Fuel filter takes about 3 minutes tops.

    If the car is cool, just open the gas cap, let it sit for about 20 min.

    Then pop off the hoses, pull off the old one (under the hood) and then put it back on.


    I'm a bit confused -- the gas tank is more or less vented to atmosphere. It may get sucked down a tiny bit, but it should never see greater than atmospheric pressure. It's not a pressure vessel by a long shot.

    The fuel lines downstream of the pump are boosted to high pressure, and that's what needs to be purged before you change the filter. The only thing that will purge the pressure in those lines is time (ie, waiting), running the engine dry, or activating a fuel injector to bleed the line down (on some cars, they actually tell you to run 12V across an injector for a few seconds).

    Removing the gas cap should have zero effect on the pressure in the fuel line. About the only thing it does is let fumes out (which would normally be trapped by a filter in the tank's vent system).

    Craig
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    What you tend to see with really high speed ratings are summer tires that indeed are lousy in the snow. They are designed to operate under high temps (on the track) and don't do so well in extreme cold (snow).

    Bob's talking about the UTGQ ratings, Uniform Tire Grade Quality. Those are determined by the manufacturer, though, against a "baseline" tire, whatever that means.

    The 93, 89 numbers are actually the max payload for the tire. 225/60R16 89H are on mine, for instance.

    The heat performance indicator is the 2nd letter in the UTGQ, 460 A A on mine for instance. 460 is tread wear ratings (vs. 100 for the baseline tire), then the first A rates wet braking traction, the second A rates the heat resistance.

    My H-rated tire therefore has the highest rating for heat resistance. 460 is a very long tread life, too.

    My original tires, Duelers, were 180 A B, and S-rated. So they were rated for lower speeds and had a B rating for heat resistance. In fact they're probably S rated because they scored poorly in heat resistance.

    -juice
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/testing/UTQG/pages/TireRatTreadwear- .htm

    I guess all the tires are compared to 'a' controlled model.
    They didn't say if each speed rating has their own controlled model though.

    -Dave
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I think that's two different things. The speed ratings are probably DOT territory, and must be proven/tested.

    UTQG is determined by the tire manufacturer. So ABS Tires could say their Generic Special is 800 AA A and stamp that on there, even if it's not.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    The 93, 89 numbers are actually the max payload for the tire. 225/60R16 89H are on mine, for instance.

    The heat performance indicator is the 2nd letter in the UTGQ, 460 A A on mine for instance. 460 is tread wear ratings (vs. 100 for the baseline tire), then the first A rates wet braking traction, the second A rates the heat resistance.

    I think you're right about that. My numbers were for payload, or something like that.

    Bob
  • joseph50joseph50 Member Posts: 235
    Some more tire info:

    http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/general/speed.jsp

    Both the Goodrich H and V come with the same "60,000 miles" connected with them. (This from the guy on the phone at Tirerack.) Both, as I said, are the same price.

    What mike suggested about the speed tire not doing as well at lower temps strikes me as a bankable thought.
    So I wait for the H's to become available again.
    That it might take a few weeks is no big concern; my Geo's (43K) will certainly hold out that long.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Some tires I've shopped had lower tread wear for the V-rated vs. the H-rated equivalent. Same tire, same model.

    Depends on the application, I guess. But I think it's fair to say that higher performance tires tend not to last as long.

    -juice
  • KCRamKCRam Member Posts: 3,516
    be sure to stop by the various tires discussions over at the Maintenance and Repair Board

    kcram
    Host
    Smart Shopper and Wagons Message Boards
  • tazerelitazereli Member Posts: 241
    In the four years that I sold/installed tires I never knew what UTQG stood for. I did know what the numbers and letters meant or at least were supposed to mean. I've also found that cheaper lesser quality tires a lot of the time would wear faster or more unevenly that a better quality tire with a supposedly worse treadwear rating.

    On another note, I take it youve been to fitzmall down there in maryland a few times. How are their stock of WRX wagons? Do they tend to keep more than one or two on the lot? I'll be in the market for a new car next fall and its not too far from my homebase here in philly. I have been considering them a lot as the two local subie dealerships seem to sell mostly at MSRP or a bit below with little want to negotiate. Fitzmall's internet pricing seems most reasonable. Next year it will come down to if they have a WRX wagon in WR blue of either 05 leftover or new 06 vintage.

    Regards,
    Kyle
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