Yes, you're right, I remember reading an article (Automobile Quarterly I think) about Mr Goertz. The BMW 507 is a lovely car, and worth a bundle!
Oh, I think a V-8 would muck up the car, IMO...all that noise and vibration...the OHC is lovely and revs pretty well...with a V-8 you're running at 2500 rpm most of the day. Why re-create the Sunbeam Tiger in a nose-heavy coupe, to say nothing of bringing the value down.
I ain't talkin about a 427, chief. The 283 was known for its compactness. And the Z chassis ain't no Alpine, either.
I think I recall an R&T article saying good things about the conversion. Needless to say, it has to be done right, and you wouldn't want to install an engine that's heavier than the original.
He turned a car that wasn't quite right *for him* into one that was. If he kept it, he had a special friend for ever. If he sold it, he paid dearly for the privilege.
If you have a car that doesn't suit you, your choices are: 1. sell it to someone who wants it as is (in which case, why'd you buy it in the first place?) or 2. turn it into the car you like, and forever more lose the ability to unload it to someone who values authenticity over usability.
I discover that I have a fetish for that boxy little MG Midget, but with 50-some hp? I think not. If there's something that will fit in there and work right, I could get interested. Plus there's the fun of doing it. Much cheaper than building a car from scratch, which would have even *less* resale value, but why would you ever want to sell a car that you had built from scratch, or even a Frankensteinmobile, unless one had unexpectedly fallen on hard times? It's your child, fer goodness' sake.
I wouldn't even want to drop a Yamaha RD350 engine on my foot. I'll bet the weight and cg of the 283 and the old Datsun 6 are close. The real problem is that you're much more likely to find a 240Z with a good drivetrain and bad body than the other way around.
Board criteria varies from one poster to the next. According to my criteria (which is all you really need anyway):
1. I know of some TVR's, but not the Grantura.What year was it made? What powers it? I'll try to look it up. 2. I've always had a kind of illogical fondness for them. Triumphs are notorious for having 2nd-rate (3rd rate?) bodywork. I think the GT6 had swing axles. Yuk. I'd take an MGB GT instead any day. 3. Cute, odd, silly machine. Good for taking your date to a Bergman festival. 4. Less cute. More reliable. Had a couple of friends who loved theirs. 5. Lots of fun. I'd take one in a minute. After all these years, I just found out 2 things about this car that shocked me: a.that the 'bug' eyes were originally intended to be retractable, and b.that the Sprite was also produced in a non-bugeye body style, which was the same as the MG Midget (which I, for one, prefer). 6. Now yer talkin. Ottima. Bellissima. Devo possederla.
I'm not talking about monetary value or commodities speculation. I'm thinking strictly in terms of emotional relationships.
I could comment in terms of future collectibility, if that helps:
TVR--too weird to guess, the Grantura III or IV are so rare...but with MGA or B powerplant (which most of them had, except a few with Ford and Climax engines)I can't imagine a high dollar value for them...but really, I don't know. I'd expect a Griffith with V-8 power would be more desirable.
GT6--no, generally spurned by collectors for awkward styling, poor build quality and mediocre performance for a 6...I mean, 79 horsepower...c'mon...the MGC of Triumph...
Saab 96--tough little bugger, no real value, unless it was an 850 Monte Carlo two-stroke perhaps...
Volvo 544--a personal favorite of mine,fun, tough as nails car, slowly gaining some collectible status, but still of no great value today. Better to have a Volvo P1800 ES. Best 544 would be a B18 engine with B20 fuel-injected cylinder head and IPD cam...yeah!
A-H frogeye--very collectible, a milestone car and way fun! Sure to gain in value. A true 'sports car' in the classic sense of the word.
Lancia Flaminia--unless it's a Zagato, it will have limited appeal, but certainly collectible, up to a point...now selling around $10K (about the same as the frogeye sprite!)
Oh, I see what means; criteria being "available under or around $5,000 in decent condition"
TVR---yes if you can find one. GT6--yes,easily, half that should do it! Saab 96---yes, half that also. Volvo 544--yes, about $4k_5K for a really nice one. A-H frogeye--no unless it's a rat Lancia Flaminia--no unless it's in poor shape.
I've always wanted a '70s 1800ES. I have to smile every time I see that ``grin'' front grille. And you could actually put something in the back of the car if you needed to. Apparently the engines are solid, but everybody complains about electrical. And I haven't seen too many with an interior I'd want to live with.
You have to admit, nothing else looks quite like it.
I think they're pretty good cars, overall...it's an early Bosch injection system (electrical) and it has that solid Volvo B20 engine...probably the worst thing you could say about the car is how low you sit in it...it's also nose-heavy and noisy, but that's sort of what old Volvos are like, and people kind of expect that.
The first ES was 1972.
Don't recall the last year of the Dauphine...not soon enough, if you ask me...the replacement was the R8, a better car, and then the R10, not so great.
I asked this once before and you convinced me it wasn't worth the trouble, but MAN those late-model Midgets with the rubber bumpers are cheap. B's are too, proportionately.
Seems you could unbolt the stupid bumpers pretty easily and drive around bumperless till you found replacements from an earlier car at a junkyard or swapmeet. Restore the engine to pre'73 specs,...A super cheap way to get yourself into a roadster, no?
At the other end of the used British roadster spectrum is the Lotus Sprint. Would that be your first choice if cost were no object? VMR lists 2's at about $15K. Are they any more troublesome than any other Brit?
Also, are you familiar with a periodical called "Old Cars Price Guide" published by Krause? Their prices are way different from VMR on some models. Their URL is www.collectit.net, if anybody's interested.
Neither of em lists Lancia, which I find quite frustrating. They leave out lots of other marques too.
I think Old Cars Price Guide is way out of line, way, way too high prices...the collectors call it "The Wish Book"...as in "I WISH I could get that price". I think for older cars that the CPI guide is good, and Kelley's Early Car Edition is also quite good. For the exotic car prices, you can't beat Sports Car Market Magazine.
No, you really can't economically convert a rubber-bumper Midget to pre 75 specs...you'd have to do more than change the bumpers, but re-engineer them, and then you'd have to change the entire suspension as well. Obviously not worth it, especially since the chrome-bumpered Midgets aren't very expensive either and far more worthy of restoration. I mean, if you take a nice little sports car, and a)ruin the looks with those bumpers and then b) ruin the handling by jacking it up a few inches, what have you got, really?
Hmm....a Lotus Elan Sprint for my first choice? No, I'd probably go for an early Alfa Spyder for $15K....just as much fun and far less trouble. But the Sprint is a kick to drive and for that it would be tempting.
Yep, it does sound quite reasonable...for that price, it should be a decent daily driver that looks really good from ten feet away. Good year, too, pre smog pump I think...
The ideal MGB roadster would have an overdrive, but I guess that's too much to hope for at that price...you can always put one in later..it really makes for a more enjoyable highway car.
I know that this one is going to be a classic: a '87 Cadillac Fleetwood d'elegance. Landau top, all power, leather, 96K, two owners only...me and the old lady before me.
How do I know? It is beautiful and drives like a dream and the size is perfect and most of all it gets picked on in a crowd. I've replaced more things on it because people just can't keep their hands off. New, I think they were jealous. Older, they just wanted the "stuff" on it. present, getting prettier all the time with all the chrome and the color.........garnet! or as the yuppies might describe it "Aubergine"(EGG PLANT) - That is the dark black/red.
I just bought a van and have a 83 El Camino. Can't keep this garnet jewel. What do you think? $4,500 too much? it has new tires and does not burn oil at all! let me know! Classic? It has power and gets 14mpg in town. New radiator.
Sure, $4,500 sounds reasonable if it's in nice shape. I'd forget about touting it too much as a "classic" though, as it doesn't really have the characteristic one would normally assign to a potential classic (high demand, limited production, outstanding performance and design), but it's certainly worth something just as a roomy and comfortable used car...personally, I'd market it just for what it is rather than it's "potential" as a collectible...let the buyer decide that for him/her self, rather than burdening yourself with having to prove that to someone.
Any interest in the big fins and chrome era cars? Out here in Colorado there are quite a few good rust free examples available for under $5,000. Could it be safe to say that Cadillac represented some of the best cars in the big American iron class of this time? ('49-'64) About seven years ago, I decided to sell my Honda Civic and roll the money into a few older cars, as my intention was to get in the old car hobby and also have a dependable, unique, and fun car to drive everyday. After a few false starts, I wound up with a very clean '55 Coupe de ville and a '59 four door 'flat top'. These cars are fantastic on the highway. People get excited when they see them, as they attract a lot of attention, especially with the younger crowd. Recently, I sold the '59 and picked up a '63 coupe from the original owner, and now use this car as my daily driver. (it is pretty thirsty, but my commute is not that long) The car is in fantastic shape and is all original. I can take it to car shows and also enjoy using it every day. It was cheap to buy, is easy and inexpensive to fix, and scores high in the nostalgia category. These cars are not 'classic', I guess. However, they were certainly interesting products of their time and can be used today as fun and functional transportation. There is also great club support for old Cadillacs and a great supply of cars and parts all over the country. The dump truck sounds interesting, but even my '55 can probably take the corners and stop a little better. Also, the smaller foreign cars mentioned look great and are probably fun to drive, but I'll feel a bit more secure with my old Cads while sharing the road with all the large SUVs and pickups out there these days - even on Sundays!
Hey Shiftright...I'll bet you recognized that your wayward nephew dropped over and used my computer to log in all that propaganda about the 1955 bulk shipment of iron ore he drives around in. I knew that he had joined some cool-aid cult or another, but I didn't realize it was this serious. I have advised him to get his own registration to the Town Hall...and maybe together we can extract him from this. He does make some good points though. Those Cadillacs can stare down the most aggressive SUV's at an intersection -- and do it in great style. My own vote for a great, low-cost classic is a 1965 or 1966 Covair Sprint (as put together by John Fitch). The ultimate would be a 1966 Corsa with the turbo, but I am not sure if Fitch did his Sprint version of the turbo. I owned a '65 Sprint with Fitch's four carbs and his factory authorized modifications to the steering, shift linkage and suspension. With the right rubber, nothing at the time (from Detroit) compared to it for handling ( OK..The Vette). They might be a little hard to find, but I'll bet that You can still find a decent Sprint around in the $5,000 range.
To think someone in my own family would drive a 1959 Cadillac. This is what a father must feel like when one of his sons goes to jail..."where did I fail?"
But, you know, whatever floats your boat is fine with me. He does have one good point (no, not the safety business...I'll take a new car with air bags and shoulder belts over any Detroit iron from the 50s in a collision with a bridge abutment, thank you very much...)---that you get a whole lot of attention for not a whole lot of money. People just love to see these flagrant idols to excess rolling down the road. American car from the 50s and 60s are a lot more accessible financially to people than say foreign sports cars of the same era. For that reason alone they make a nice hobby....and you can get most parts, too, so you don't end up frustrated by something that big that doesn't move.
Hey, maybe I could put some of my not-running-collection on the back of it, and haul them around a bit. At least I could tell my wife, "No, I can't get rid of them. They move don't they!"
did you drive your MG B-GT all year round? I am looking for a good classic car for when I go off to college. While I have looked at the Alfa GT Veloce, I found it to finicky and rust prone. Early 911's are wonderful except the parts are expensive. it sounds like you have had a good experience with the B cars. Tell some of their major problems. Does the car rust like crazy? I obviously would not drive it in snow or salty conditions (what person would?) but I would have to drive it in rain and it might (i repeat MIGHT) have to be parked outside sometimes...
what do you think...my closest British experience is my friend's father's 1967 Jaguar XK-E 4.2 (What a wonderful machine!!)
Oh, yeah, I think an MGB-GT could make a pretty decent all-year car, although I'm not willing to guarantee that the heater/defroster system could cope with really severe weather. But it's certainly basically weather-proof, and if properly cared for, can be a very reliable car. Best thing you can do is put in a strong modern battery and new cables, and then take a baseball bat to anyone who tries to mess with the SU carbs who doesn't know what they're doing(they are so simple and so reliable, why do people screw them up so much? Can't understand it...oh, well...).
While you're right about early Alfas, the later 1982 on up Alfa Sypders are all equipped with Bosch electrical systems and injectiion and are dead-reliable cars, pretty, fun to drive and priced now around $6,000 in fine shape. So for the price of a shaggy Miata you can drive in real style and get a heater that is prodigious (and electric windows and a/c if you wish)...also removable hardtops are available for around $600.
Both the MGB and Alfa Sypder have excellent resources available for parts, and prices are quite reasonable, too, so you won't go broke restoring or maintaining one, as long as you start with a good car in the first place.
where is a good place to look for MG B-GT's? Also, what is the price range for these cars (good ---> excellent condition)?
which model would you recommend the early 1965->1969 model or the 1969->1973 model?
"Thoroughbred and Classic Car" (a British publication) magazine recommend upgrading the old lever-arm shocks to the telescopic kind. saying that the suspension is most important to "sort out." They also meantioned that the big-bore 2.0 liter conversion is quite good...what do you think??
I think they're a bit potty over there...no, seriously, it's a GREAT magazine, but I think for all the trouble and expense you don't get much benefit from telescoping shocks. The lever type work great.
Better than a 2.0 liter conversion, I'd just be sure to have an overdrive unit installed, if it's not already there. The B will never be a stormer, so better to make it a pleasant cruiser.
The Internet is a great place to look (Classifieds2000, Traderonline)...or Hemmings Motor News is another good place. I like the 1967 on up because you get synchromesh first gear, up to 1974 which is the last of the chrome-bumpered cars. Under no circumstances would I recommend a rubber-bumpered 1975 on up car.
Mr Shiftright: Why not a rubber-bumper car? Is your objection strictly looks, lack of classic value, or perhaps other problems the "late" MG's have?
I'm asking because today I stumbled onto a '77 Midget for $2400 at a local garage sale...and am kind of interested in it. Believe it would be #4 condition, faded Tahiti Blue, no obvious rust, no puddles underneath, seats seemed good, etc. Looked OK under hood....had side-draft dual Weber and header on engine. Owned by older lady who said she loves to drives it every now and then. Should I go back and really check out? Would appreciate your advice as to value of this car.
BTW, first car was '56 MGA (in '66). Also had '67 XKE in '72/73. Midget isnt' quite same league, but thought it's a fun 3rd car to drive on nice days, and should cost a whole lot to keep running. Used to enjoy working on them.
Yeah, the rubber-bumpered MGs had to be raised up to meet US bumper height regulations, and it threw the handling way off....and yes, the aesthetics are also a problem. Putting a Weber carb on doesn't really do any good to a MG unless you also work the heads and exhaust, otherwise you only get a slight improvment at very high rpm...and they eat gas with a Weber,too.
Last of all, such a modification would be highly illegal in some states. And at $2400, the car should have been in pretty good condition, so it sounds overpriced for a /77 Midget, which are practically worthless right now.
I've seen people rework 'em, lowering the car, slipping in an older engine, stuff like that, and then you have a decent car again---but that kind of work is quite expensive, and the car is still ugly (not easy to change to chrome bumpers).
Mr SR: Thanks for your response on the rubber-bumper Midgets. I'll keep looking.
Have to talk about my 23 yr old son's recent experience...it's a real classic! He bought a '76 914 over the Internet for $3500, sight unseen (other than a website picture). He had it shipped from Texas to KC via truck. Naturally, he didn't ask his old man for advice until after he bought the car. Body in primer, no obvious rust, worn inside, poor wiring, no heater boxes, etc. It is driveable, but engine only runs on 3 cylinders....mechanic said no compression in #3 at all. Looks like a good $1500 car to me....based on what it would take to restore.
He was surprised, as the seller said the engine was fine, had just been "resealed" 6 months ago...whatever that means. He thought he had some legal right to sue for misrepresentation, but lawyer of course told him forget it; you bought the car "as is". After seeing the car, I advised him to sell "as is", take a loss rather than fix. Anyway, after about 20 callers and lookers, no one in KC seems to want a 914 with bad engine for $2500. He is now taking car to his friendly VW mechanic, who first advised he sell car also but now is willing to take on as a "side project" when he gets room in a corner of the shop.
My hope is that the engine has a burnt valve and can be fixed without total overhaul. Only two other problems driving: steering is slightly harder turning to the right; and shift lever is very stiff to move between gears.
Question: Worst case, if engine is total junk, what is best way to go on fixing....overhaul vs used or rebuilt replacement? Or at that point, should he just keep advertising and take the first offer over $1K?
Would appreciate your opinion on this car, as well as buying over the Internet in general. Are there options for the buyer other than traveling to inspect the car in person?
Please forgive me for being the bearer of bad tidings, but I'm be surprised if he even got $1,000 for the car (although I hope he does). Given your description, such a car is practically worthless. He was certainly defrauded, by your description of events, I mean, but legally it would be tricky--however, I see no harm in having the attorney send a letter to the previous owner, especially if there is some written proof of all these "claims" the seller made...maybe the letter and a threat would jar some money loose to make up for this catastrophe.
No, I woulnd't fix it or touch it, just dump it, take your lumps and move on! These cars are difficult to work on and expensive to fix, and there's no payoff. I personally feel it would be folly to continue.
If he likes the 914 (I do, actually), have him look for a nice 2.0 liter car that is in excellent condition throughout, which he should be able to find for $4,500-5,500...sadly, not much more than he paid for that wreck.
Tell him that's how I learned, by mistakes...and not to feel bad, he'll make it up by scoring a good deal further down the road. When it comes to cars, knowledge is (horse)power!
how about BMW 2002's. I have always heard and read good things about these cars. Surprisingly reliable for a classic BMW, a great handling coupe and peppy in tii trim.
i found a nice 1969 mgb-gt for sale. Here is the ad:
White exterior/white&black interior 1600cc motor four speed transmission The entire car has been rebuilt, including replacing the wiring. It has new paint, new seats and interior. All work was done by or through San Diego British cars/Britannia motors. $6,000 o.b.o
What do you think?
there are pictures of the car and it looks great...you can find them at www.highwayone.com
I would have to either ship the car, or drive it across the country...but it sounds good.
Well, for one thing it seems odd that after restoring the car, the owner doesn't even know what size engine he has (it's an 1.8 liter). If it's really a 1600 cc MGA engine, then, of course, it's wrong.
Also, I would much prefer an overdrive transmission in a coupe, since the car, without it, is awfully busy at 65mph, and this engine noise is amplified in a coupe.
But it IS the right idea and the price isn't bad if the car is as nice as the ad says. Too bad the car wasn't in San Francisco, I could go look at it for you.
In that case, I have some nice cars you might be interested in, all in excellent condition. Some could probably be made to start, given proper care. Most of them have wheels and tires.
Now, now, C13, be kind. He probably means the BODY is in good shape...anyway, boesknows, I can't tell you anything about value without a better description. Please refer to Topic 5, which tells you how to judge a car's condition by a numberical value, and then let me know what you've come up with by re-posting here. Here's the link to the Conditions Topic:
On another subject, do the rest of you guys ever have your whole mood changed by just seeing one ratty old faded beauty from yesteryear?
I saw a '63 Guilietta (or Guilia or whatever) today. We were in traffic, and I made sure I got stuck next to it, much to the consternation of the guy behind me who wanted me to proceed to the front of the gap ahead of me, thus enabling him to be 30 or 40 ft closer to home, even though still motionless.
Upon close examination, the Alfa was bondo'd, the engine sounded rough, it was painted a weird refrigerator-white, probably from spray cans. Still, it was like sitting next to some once-respected actress on the subway. Gave me a jolt of art and artisanship and the Italian 'miracle' of the early 60's, sorely needed after a day in my little place of business; the very antithesis of art and artisanship.
Probably a Giulia if a 1963. They were great little cars, lovely to look at and they could run up to 7000rpm+ no problem. The name "Giulia" is a little joke from the factory--the grown up Julia from the earlier young girl Juliet. Of course, the young Juliet loved Romeo, so it's all very appropriate for an Alfa-Romeo.
Dear Mr Shiftright for insurance purpose I had it's value estimated at 3500 in 91 by a classic car dealer. Since then it was involved in ab accident the trunk was completely quartered paneled and new sheet metal in the trunk floor no plastic was used to keep it orginal.
While in the shop one of the young kids they had working there must of jump started and reversrd the cables as the volt meter is stuck on discharge and the alternator is not charging,it also needs a fuel pump and right rear axle seal and bearing. The interoir with the exception of a small hole starting to rut through under the parking brake pedal.
I just had back surgery last year and have new interest in fast motorcycles as i just purchased a bike that runs 185 mph , I bought the car for my wife for her birthday now she has a mustang convertible pluse we have moved in to a rescricted neibhorhood and I hate to see the car just rust away when someone could be having some fun with it. thanks for your help,boesknows
Well, if it were me I think I would have kept the $4,700 instead of putting it in the car, since that really is probably more than the value of the automobile right now. I'd say the appraisal was close to right on, maybe even a bit generous on your behalf. Given that it now needs work, anywhere from $2,000-2,500 should be an actual selling price I would think.
I guess it depends how tolerant you are. The Alfa is way more fun than a 325, so that's hands down winner. But it might be a bit annoying until you got the GTV6 squared away. Like any car that is depressed on the used car market, they fall into the hands of people who can't or won't take care of them. So if you're buying a GTV6, don't shop price, buy the best one you can find and bargain mercilessly. It's a buyer's market. My Alfas are now very reliable, but it took some doing to get them up to speed. Just neglect and ignorance, the two things that shoot Alfas down in this country. They are really swell cars in the right hands.
Comments
Oh, I think a V-8 would muck up the car, IMO...all that noise and vibration...the OHC is lovely and revs pretty well...with a V-8 you're running at 2500 rpm most of the day. Why re-create the Sunbeam Tiger in a nose-heavy coupe, to say nothing of bringing the value down.
I think I recall an R&T article saying good things about the conversion. Needless to say, it has to be done right, and you wouldn't want to install an engine that's heavier than the original.
I drove in a very tidily done V-8 conversion of a Mercedes 280SL...the guy even changed the chrome script on the trunk to read "289 SL".
Fun to drive, and with a lot of ingenuity and hard work he turned a $25,000 car into an $7,500 one.
The whole process escapes me, but maybe if i keep trying I'll get the point....have patience with me.
He turned a car that wasn't quite right *for him* into one that was. If he kept it, he had a special friend for ever. If he sold it, he paid dearly for the privilege.
If you have a car that doesn't suit you, your choices are:
1. sell it to someone who wants it as is (in which case, why'd you buy it in the first place?) or
2. turn it into the car you like, and forever more lose the ability to unload it to someone who values authenticity over usability.
I discover that I have a fetish for that boxy little MG Midget, but with 50-some hp? I think not. If there's something that will fit in there and work right, I could get interested. Plus there's the fun of doing it. Much cheaper than building a car from scratch, which would have even *less* resale value, but why would you ever want to sell a car that you had built from scratch, or even a Frankensteinmobile, unless one had unexpectedly fallen on hard times? It's your child, fer goodness' sake.
I wouldn't even want to drop a Yamaha RD350 engine on my foot. I'll bet the weight and cg of the 283 and the old Datsun 6 are close. The real problem is that you're much more likely to find a 240Z with a good drivetrain and bad body than the other way around.
1.TVR Grantura Mk3 or Mk4
2.Triumph GT6
3.Saab 96
4.Volvo 544
5.Austin Healey 'Frogeye' Sprite
6.Lancia Flaminia Sport 1963
1. I know of some TVR's, but not the Grantura.What year was it made? What powers it? I'll try to look it up.
2. I've always had a kind of illogical fondness for them. Triumphs are notorious for having 2nd-rate (3rd rate?) bodywork. I think the GT6 had swing axles. Yuk. I'd take an MGB GT instead any day.
3. Cute, odd, silly machine. Good for taking your date to a Bergman festival.
4. Less cute. More reliable. Had a couple of friends who loved theirs.
5. Lots of fun. I'd take one in a minute. After all these years, I just found out 2 things about this car that shocked me: a.that the 'bug' eyes were originally intended to be retractable, and b.that the Sprite was also produced in a non-bugeye body style, which was the same as the MG Midget (which I, for one, prefer).
6. Now yer talkin. Ottima. Bellissima. Devo possederla.
I'm not talking about monetary value or commodities speculation. I'm thinking strictly in terms of emotional relationships.
I could comment in terms of future collectibility, if that helps:
TVR--too weird to guess, the Grantura III or IV are so rare...but with MGA or B powerplant (which most of them had, except a few with Ford and Climax engines)I can't imagine a high dollar value for them...but really, I don't know. I'd expect a Griffith with V-8 power would be more desirable.
GT6--no, generally spurned by collectors for awkward styling, poor build quality and mediocre performance for a 6...I mean, 79 horsepower...c'mon...the MGC of Triumph...
Saab 96--tough little bugger, no real value, unless it was an 850 Monte Carlo two-stroke perhaps...
Volvo 544--a personal favorite of mine,fun, tough as nails car, slowly gaining some collectible status, but still of no great value today. Better to have a Volvo P1800 ES. Best 544 would be a B18 engine with B20 fuel-injected cylinder head and IPD cam...yeah!
A-H frogeye--very collectible, a milestone car and way fun! Sure to gain in value. A true 'sports car' in the classic sense of the word.
Lancia Flaminia--unless it's a Zagato, it will have limited appeal, but certainly collectible, up to a point...now selling around $10K (about the same as the frogeye sprite!)
Nice and interesting list of cars!
TVR---yes if you can find one.
GT6--yes,easily, half that should do it!
Saab 96---yes, half that also.
Volvo 544--yes, about $4k_5K for a really nice one.
A-H frogeye--no unless it's a rat
Lancia Flaminia--no unless it's in poor shape.
You have to admit, nothing else looks quite like it.
The first ES was 1972.
Don't recall the last year of the Dauphine...not soon enough, if you ask me...the replacement was the R8, a better car, and then the R10, not so great.
I had an R8 Gordini, and it was a lot of fun.
Seems you could unbolt the stupid bumpers pretty easily and drive around bumperless till you found replacements from an earlier car at a junkyard or swapmeet. Restore the engine to pre'73 specs,...A super cheap way to get yourself into a roadster, no?
At the other end of the used British roadster spectrum is the Lotus Sprint. Would that be your first choice if cost were no object? VMR lists 2's at about $15K. Are they any more troublesome than any other Brit?
Also, are you familiar with a periodical called "Old Cars Price Guide" published by Krause? Their prices are way different from VMR on some models. Their URL is www.collectit.net, if anybody's interested.
Neither of em lists Lancia, which I find quite frustrating. They leave out lots of other marques too.
I think Old Cars Price Guide is way out of line, way, way too high prices...the collectors call it "The Wish Book"...as in "I WISH I could get that price". I think for older cars that the CPI guide is good, and Kelley's Early Car Edition is also quite good. For the exotic car prices, you can't beat Sports Car Market Magazine.
No, you really can't economically convert a rubber-bumper Midget to pre 75 specs...you'd have to do more than change the bumpers, but re-engineer them, and then you'd have to change the entire suspension as well. Obviously not worth it, especially since the chrome-bumpered Midgets aren't very expensive either and far more worthy of restoration. I mean, if you take a nice little sports car, and a)ruin the looks with those bumpers and then b) ruin the handling by jacking it up a few inches, what have you got, really?
Hmm....a Lotus Elan Sprint for my first choice? No, I'd probably go for an early Alfa Spyder for $15K....just as much fun and far less trouble. But the Sprint is a kick to drive and for that it would be tempting.
1969 MG Roadster, 4 spd, wire wheels, good tires, paint and top, fun car, must sell, $3500 o.b.o.
Does this sound reasonable?
The ideal MGB roadster would have an overdrive, but I guess that's too much to hope for at that price...you can always put one in later..it really makes for a more enjoyable highway car.
How do I know? It is beautiful and drives like a dream and the size is perfect and most of all it gets picked on in a crowd. I've replaced more things on it because people just can't keep their hands off. New, I think they were jealous. Older, they just wanted the "stuff" on it. present, getting prettier all the time with all the chrome and the color.........garnet! or as the yuppies might describe it "Aubergine"(EGG PLANT) - That is the dark black/red.
I just bought a van and have a 83 El Camino. Can't keep this garnet jewel. What do you think? $4,500 too much? it has new tires and does not burn oil at all! let me know! Classic? It has power and gets 14mpg in town. New radiator.
i wan't five thousand
He does make some good points though. Those Cadillacs can stare down the most aggressive SUV's at an intersection -- and do it in great style.
My own vote for a great, low-cost classic is a 1965 or 1966 Covair Sprint (as put together by John Fitch). The ultimate would be a 1966 Corsa with the turbo, but I am not sure if Fitch did his Sprint version of the turbo. I owned a '65 Sprint with Fitch's four carbs and his factory authorized modifications to the steering, shift linkage and suspension. With the right rubber, nothing at the time (from Detroit) compared to it for handling ( OK..The Vette). They might be a little hard to find, but I'll bet that You can still find a decent Sprint around in the $5,000 range.
But, you know, whatever floats your boat is fine with me. He does have one good point (no, not the safety business...I'll take a new car with air bags and shoulder belts over any Detroit iron from the 50s in a collision with a bridge abutment, thank you very much...)---that you get a whole lot of attention for not a whole lot of money. People just love to see these flagrant idols to excess rolling down the road. American car from the 50s and 60s are a lot more accessible financially to people than say foreign sports cars of the same era. For that reason alone they make a nice hobby....and you can get most parts, too, so you don't end up frustrated by something that big that doesn't move.
did you drive your MG B-GT all year round? I am looking for a good classic car for when I go off to college. While I have looked at the Alfa GT Veloce, I found it to finicky and rust prone. Early 911's are wonderful except the parts are expensive. it sounds like you have had a good experience with the B cars. Tell some of their major problems. Does the car rust like crazy? I obviously would not drive it in snow or salty conditions (what person would?) but I would have to drive it in rain and it might (i repeat MIGHT) have to be parked outside sometimes...
what do you think...my closest British experience is my friend's father's 1967 Jaguar XK-E 4.2 (What a wonderful machine!!)
Oh, yeah, I think an MGB-GT could make a pretty decent all-year car, although I'm not willing to guarantee that the heater/defroster system could cope with really severe weather. But it's certainly basically weather-proof, and if properly cared for, can be a very reliable car. Best thing you can do is put in a strong modern battery and new cables, and then take a baseball bat to anyone who tries to mess with the SU carbs who doesn't know what they're doing(they are so simple and so reliable, why do people screw them up so much? Can't understand it...oh, well...).
While you're right about early Alfas, the later 1982 on up Alfa Sypders are all equipped with Bosch electrical systems and injectiion and are dead-reliable cars, pretty, fun to drive and priced now around $6,000 in fine shape. So for the price of a shaggy Miata you can drive in real style and get a heater that is prodigious (and electric windows and a/c if you wish)...also removable hardtops are available for around $600.
Both the MGB and Alfa Sypder have excellent resources available for parts, and prices are quite reasonable, too, so you won't go broke restoring or maintaining one, as long as you start with a good car in the first place.
which model would you recommend the early 1965->1969 model or the 1969->1973 model?
"Thoroughbred and Classic Car" (a British publication) magazine recommend upgrading the old lever-arm shocks to the telescopic kind. saying that the suspension is most important to "sort out." They also meantioned that the big-bore 2.0 liter conversion is quite good...what do you think??
Better than a 2.0 liter conversion, I'd just be sure to have an overdrive unit installed, if it's not already there. The B will never be a stormer, so better to make it a pleasant cruiser.
The Internet is a great place to look (Classifieds2000, Traderonline)...or Hemmings Motor News is another good place. I like the 1967 on up because you get synchromesh first gear, up to 1974 which is the last of the chrome-bumpered cars. Under no circumstances would I recommend a rubber-bumpered 1975 on up car.
I'm asking because today I stumbled onto a '77 Midget for $2400 at a local garage sale...and am kind of interested in it. Believe it would be #4 condition, faded Tahiti Blue, no obvious rust, no puddles underneath, seats seemed good, etc. Looked OK under hood....had side-draft dual Weber and header on engine. Owned by older lady who said she loves to drives it every now and then. Should I go back and really check out? Would appreciate your advice as to value of this car.
BTW, first car was '56 MGA (in '66). Also had '67 XKE in '72/73. Midget isnt' quite same league, but thought it's a fun 3rd car to drive on nice days, and should cost a whole lot to keep running. Used to enjoy working on them.
Thanks...thought the car looked somehow narrower than I recalled the old ones; must be the height increase! Glad I wasn't impulsive today.
Last of all, such a modification would be highly illegal in some states. And at $2400, the car should have been in pretty good condition, so it sounds overpriced for a /77 Midget, which are practically worthless right now.
I've seen people rework 'em, lowering the car, slipping in an older engine, stuff like that, and then you have a decent car again---but that kind of work is quite expensive, and the car is still ugly (not easy to change to chrome bumpers).
Have to talk about my 23 yr old son's recent experience...it's a real classic! He bought a '76 914 over the Internet for $3500, sight unseen (other than a website picture). He had it shipped from Texas to KC via truck. Naturally, he didn't ask his old man for advice until after he bought the car. Body in primer, no obvious rust, worn inside, poor wiring, no heater boxes, etc. It is driveable, but engine only runs on 3 cylinders....mechanic said no compression in #3 at all. Looks like a good $1500 car to me....based on what it would take to restore.
He was surprised, as the seller said the engine was fine, had just been "resealed" 6 months ago...whatever that means. He thought he had some legal right to sue for misrepresentation, but lawyer of course told him forget it; you bought the car "as is". After seeing the car, I advised him to sell "as is", take a loss rather than fix. Anyway, after about 20 callers and lookers, no one in KC seems to want a 914 with bad engine for $2500. He is now taking car to his friendly VW mechanic, who first advised he sell car also but now is willing to take on as a "side project" when he gets room in a corner of the shop.
My hope is that the engine has a burnt valve and can be fixed without total overhaul. Only two other problems driving: steering is slightly harder turning to the right; and shift lever is very stiff to move between gears.
Question: Worst case, if engine is total junk, what is best way to go on fixing....overhaul vs used or rebuilt replacement? Or at that point, should he just keep advertising and take the first offer over $1K?
Would appreciate your opinion on this car, as well as buying over the Internet in general. Are there options for the buyer other than traveling to inspect the car in person?
No, I woulnd't fix it or touch it, just dump it, take your lumps and move on! These cars are difficult to work on and expensive to fix, and there's no payoff. I personally feel it would be folly to continue.
If he likes the 914 (I do, actually), have him look for a nice 2.0 liter car that is in excellent condition throughout, which he should be able to find for $4,500-5,500...sadly, not much more than he paid for that wreck.
Too bad, I'm really sorry for him!
Thanks for your fine response; I'll pass it on to him....and hope he takes the advice.
What do you think?
White exterior/white&black interior
1600cc motor
four speed transmission
The entire car has been rebuilt, including replacing the wiring. It has new paint, new seats and interior. All work was done by or through San Diego British cars/Britannia motors.
$6,000 o.b.o
What do you think?
there are pictures of the car and it looks great...you can find them at www.highwayone.com
I would have to either ship the car, or drive it across the country...but it sounds good.
Also, I would much prefer an overdrive transmission in a coupe, since the car, without it, is awfully busy at 65mph, and this engine noise is amplified in a coupe.
But it IS the right idea and the price isn't bad if the car is as nice as the ad says. Too bad the car wasn't in San Francisco, I could go look at it for you.
In that case, I have some nice cars you might be interested in, all in excellent condition. Some could probably be made to start, given proper care. Most of them have wheels and tires.
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On another subject, do the rest of you guys ever have your whole mood changed by just seeing one ratty old faded beauty from yesteryear?
I saw a '63 Guilietta (or Guilia or whatever) today. We were in traffic, and I made sure I got stuck next to it, much to the consternation of the guy behind me who wanted me to proceed to the front of the gap ahead of me, thus enabling him to be 30 or 40 ft closer to home, even though still motionless.
Upon close examination, the Alfa was bondo'd, the engine sounded rough, it was painted a weird refrigerator-white, probably from spray cans. Still, it was like sitting next to some once-respected actress on the subway. Gave me a jolt of art and artisanship and the Italian 'miracle' of the early 60's, sorely needed after a day in my little place of business; the very antithesis of art and artisanship.
While in the shop one of the young kids they had working there must of jump started and reversrd the cables as the volt meter is stuck on discharge and the alternator is not charging,it also needs a fuel pump and right rear axle seal and bearing. The interoir with the exception of a small hole starting to rut through under the parking brake pedal.
I just had back surgery last year and have new interest in fast motorcycles as i just purchased a bike that runs 185 mph , I bought the car for my wife for her birthday now she has a mustang convertible pluse we have moved in to a rescricted neibhorhood and I hate to see the car just rust away when someone could be having some fun with it. thanks for your help,boesknows
PS the insuranc paid 4700 to redue the trunk.
Well, if it were me I think I would have kept the $4,700 instead of putting it in the car, since that really is probably more than the value of the automobile right now. I'd say the appraisal was close to right on, maybe even a bit generous on your behalf. Given that it now needs work, anywhere from $2,000-2,500 should be an actual selling price I would think.
good luck with it.
Boesknows
Yes, this would be a more appropriate topic for the News & Views conference, not Classic Cars....here's your link:
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I'm not saying "(duh) which is best?", but what are your thoughts?
How does handling compare? Both should be pretty sweet, no?
How about in other regards. Which would you rather buy? Which would you rather own? Which would you rather drive?
Let's say that this is to be a long-term affair; resale value is not much of a factor at all.
PS What about the Alfetta Sedan?
PPS Your 164 is nice, but they ain't cheap.