I didn't special order my car. They have exactly three standard versions of the 460L here in Southern California: Two at around 80K and the "everything" at 86K. Only the "everything" had the two features that I wanted, and that does include the park-o-matic. So far I've only tried it once in a big parking lot with lots of room. I found it is a little tricky (if I may use that Nixonian adjective) to set it up, but once I figured that out it worked perfectly; i.e. it backed into the exact space that I had selected. The challenge is to move the parking frame on the nav screen to the exact position in the rear camera view where you want to end up. Of course that is assuming that there is nothing wrong with the car.
Didn't know you are a SOCAL person...where did you get it?
I'm not interested in price; rather would like to hear your take on dealers in this area re service, etc. I would rate Vista #1 (bought 2 there), Cerritos #2 (1 purchase), South Bay (My 460 was from them), and Keyes Van Nuys a DISTANT last place, unless one can start with the salesman who sold me my first 430. Comments?
Re park-o-matic...my mishap occurred when the system did not recognize a high curb and alert me to the presence of an obstacle which would clearly impact the fender skirt. Screen resolution is not adequate for my tired eyeballs to pick out details like curb height; dammit that is what sensors, servos, and warning chimes are for! I assume they understand the dynamics of trigonometry. However, in fairness to Lexus, they refunded my $700 when even they could not make it obey. Based on numerous comments with chat rooms, a New York Times automotive editor called me and we talked for a while about my experiences, and he included a snippet in his article regarding this feature.
I got my LS460L at Lexus Mission Viejo, now Park Place Lexus Mission Viejo. I understand they got bought out by Park Place Lexus from Texas. I had been taking my LS430's (2001 and 2004) to them for service, because I found them more competent that Tustin (where I bought the 2001), and about 30% less expensive than Newport. The 2004 I bought through Autoland, and it came from Riverside, but I never dealt with them.
What soured me on Tustin was that when I said to the service writer, "I read on the Internet that when you rotate the tires you should include the spare tire in order to get more wear out of your tires. Did you do that?" he said, "Oh yes, absolutely. We always do that." A month later I called back and said, "I just heard that you should not include the spare when rotating tires." That guy said, "That's right. With radial tires you have to keep them on the same side of the car. We know that."
But in fairness it is probably true that you can have good and bad experiences everywhere.
I'm in a coin toss over the Smoky Granite/Grey and Verdigris/Cashmere color combination. Can anyone who has either and give feedback on how they stand up re: showing dirt on inside or outside? Any regrets after a few weeks or months?
I just bought a 2008 LS 460 with regular (not air) suspension. It seems to register every small bump in the road. Is there any way of adjusting it to float more? Thanks for your responses.
I also had that idea and discovered that the dealer had inflated them to 38psi cold. I reduced them to 33psi cold, which unfortunately resulted in no noticeable difference in the ride.
I also own an '07 LS 460L with very significant wind noise. In fact if the wind is strong enough, 30mph+, I have wind noise at 10 to 20 mph. The dealer preformed the work in the TSB, as to wind noise and I believe the problem is now worse. As Sierra7 stated it is an issue of cross wind, and the dealer can hear this, however he says it is not wind noise, but rather wind rush, a distinction without a difference! Between my wife and I, this is our ninth Lexus, and the only one that I have any real issue with. Perhaps I should have not bought the first model year, but frankly, I didn't think that this would be the case with Lexus. Because of this my next car decision will not automatically be Lexus and I will look at other products.
Yes, 33 is what is written on the door. Does anyone know how the air suspension option works? Does it allow for a "floatier" suspension than the normal one? All that Lexus says, as far as I can determine, is that it changes the level of the car. I am used to a 2003 Avalon which simply floats over nicks and cracks and holes in the road. Incidentally, this is a different problem from going over speed bumps (or speed humps as they are called here) which the shocks tolerate beautifully.
The height increase/decrease is a separate adjustment. The car rides very smooth in all 3 and floats the best in comfort. Sport tightens everything up and improves handling but the ride is still luxuriously smooth and perfect. My car, which is a LWB, handles bumps beautifully and the bump has to be a pretty good sized one to even feel it in the car.
Just an FYI, there is a recall campaign 8LA that replaces drive belt pulleys due to a manufacturing defect that can cause pulleys to shatter. 27,000 vehicles are affected, but only 2007 models as far as I know.
Is the Levinson stereo really worth $1,900? I like the NAV, even though you can't use it while driving. Are other options worth the price? Comfort package? $1,092 comfort plus $3,000.
I don't understand what is so worth the money in those items.
The most worthwhile options on my 460L (which has been replaced) was the pneumatic suspension and larger brakes...both of which are part of the touring package. Without question the least useful gadget was the automatic parking feature; that option is a fraud in my opinion. To be fair, Lexus did refund the $700 cost after some squawking. The ML stereo is really a judgment call...I never listened to the non-ML package...I do know that is one of the first questions asked when getting rid of a Lexus L-series automobile.
Having moved into a GM product I am pleasantly surprised to find several options that work better than any of the 5 Lexi I have owned. Standard equipment on my new Buick is heated steering wheel, laminated glass all around, tilt mirrors that actually allow curb visibility for parking, logical seat deployment upon exit, and great seat heaters that allow a choice between seatback only or seatback and cushion. They cool the driver and passenger also, just like the Lexus.
I would give the advantage to Lexus for the NAV system and the ML stereo except the MP-3 port on the GM machine is much handier than the Lexus, which is placed in the rear of the center console in a black hole requiring a flashlight to find. Fit and finish is comparable and there is no need to look for those blasted fasteners Lexus uses on the engine covers which pop out and disappear whenever one must remove a cover to check what is underneath. Note also that Lexus techs are not too diligent in replacing those that are lost...holes are left empty, since most owners never raise the hood?
Finally, I cannot detect wind noise with the Buick...a frequent topic of complaint on this link.
I have the '08 LS460. I have had the alarm go off twice for no apparant reason. Once in the middle of the night. I have also returned to my car after shopping and had all the windows down and the moonroof open. It also is noisy, I cant really tell whether it is wind or road noise, but whatever it is I did not have it in the car {LS430} that I foolishly sold to Carmax in order to buy this one. Carmax gave me $7000 more for my car than Lexus would, which made it cheaper even after paying sales tax on the total price. This treatment after being a loyal customer since they came out in '89. This is my 10th Lexus. I wish to hell I had kept my LS430. I think this will be my last Lexus.
My '04 LS430 was the best car I ever owned. As I said, I wish I still had it. The '08 LS460 that I have now I am disapointed with. Little nitpicking things go wrong with the 460s that you never had to worry about a few years ago. I feel that they are just not putting the quality control in the cars that they used to. A person never had problems of any kind with the 430s. Therefore, I think I will look at something else next year. I have no idea what. This is the first time I have even thought about something besides a Lexus since my first one in '89.
I am really sorry to hear your annoyances with the 460. My experience has been just the opposite. The 430 keyless entry system worked somewhat erratically. Sometimes it wouldn't unlock the door until I pressed a little harder. Same thing for locking. Also, the dynamic cruise control switch would occasionally fail to resume the previously set speed, instead setting the current speed. The 460 has all these little things resolved flawlessly.
My 08 LS460 is the LWB. I do get the impression that the SWB version is less perfect. I gather yours is the SWB?
Why the surprise... Lexus does build bad cars... had one also
I wouldn't say they build bad cars some problems nothing very big or maybe the exceptional of the GS recall, still they do build better reliability than the european cars.
Not sure what glitches you refer to but my 2007 LS460 has been the car from hell, and I have been driving them since 1990. It is difficult to know where to start with my complaints on this car but here are some:
1. Sometimes driving this car is so sweet, I think I am dreaming. It can be smooth in acceleration through all gears and tons of power. At other times, usually at slower speeds, the care can rev a little between shifts, seems sluggish, and noisier than the time I drove it before. I call it my Jekel & Hyde car. 2. Of course there is the wind noise on the driver side window. 3. The brakes are hard to make a smooth stops. 4. The command center is too complex to work and is a joke. My new top of the line Chevy pickup truck shames this Lexus in its simplicity. 5. The car tends to catch groves in the street, pulling the car left or right, especially noticeable when braking. 6. It is difficult to hold the car precisely in curves. 7. Some time the high pressure injectors make alot of noise. Sometimes they make none.
When I take the car to the dealer complaining about any of this, they don't know what to do. My conclusion is that if you want a car that has exquisite fit and finish, goes fast in a straight line, and is smooth as glass doing it (most of the time), then buy an LS 460. If you want a car that goes pretty fast, can do just about anything the Lexus can do with more simplicity, and costs a lot less, buy a Buick or something else. Lexus has screwed this car up. I will not buy another.
P.S. - I drove both the big BMW and Mercedes before I bought the LS. All three of these cars have gone off the deep end on gadgets. It seems to be a battle of the whistles and bells instead of the ease of operation. I would say the Lexus still has a ways to go on everything but fit and finish when comparing to the other two. Of course, it is a little cheaper, for what that is worth.
Is it available on the LS 460 (base model)? How does it work? How does it compare with the old Euro-tuned suspension on the LS 430 (without which I would not have acquired this car, which I still drive with joy)? Is the Euro-tuned suspension still available on the LS 460?
what color package have /did you decide on ? I am looking at the Smoky Granite & black leather combination ...did you get any response good or bad on this color combo ?
According to specs, they are essentially the same car except of course the LWB (Long Wheel Base) is about 5 or 6 inches longer, most of which is in extra rear seat legroom. But there were reports that the SWB (Short Wheel Base) had more wind noise than the LWB because the latter had better window glass, or something. So that made me think that there may be other areas in which they made the LWB better than the SWB. The other important difference is that some options are only available on the LWB.
South Florida.. an ad for "the world's largest Lexus dealer" has over 75 2008 LS460's on sale for $8000 off MSRP. There seems to be no fine print... just pick your 460, take off 8 grand and go home.
No mention on the "L" having the same deal.
It looks like the 460's are finally coming down in price. That is GREAT news.
Lexus has spoiled me into thinking of the LS as being "fairly priced" in the high 50's, low 60's. Dealers have been trying to take advantage of the "ALL NEW LS!!" to "mercederize" their prices but I think that party is now coming to a close.
Aside from the greater HP, the difference between the 430 (selling at near invoice its last few years here in South Fla.) and the 460 just doesn't seem like enough to justify the price jumps dealers have been trying to sustain. The LS went from mid to high 50K "real world" sale prices to 70K on the 460. Lease prices jumped from 700 to 800 per month for 36 months to well over $1000 per month.
That's one of the problems with achieving near perfection -- what else can they do or add to these cars to make them pricier yet still appear to be a good value? The self parking gimmick was cute, but who really wants that and is willing to pay a premium for it?
I know this is totally subjective, but in my mind the LS has always been, and always should be, the nicer looking, more reliable, and much less expensive S class alternative.
Now that the newness is wearing off the 460 and the early adopters have had their fun, perhaps the car will now become more accessible to us regular folks.
In other words, perhaps my wife will let me get one now!
Did you have any luck with the duck tape? I have the same car/same problem.The dealer did the TSB fix and it did not help. It is a crosswind problem I think. I added some masking tape to a few suspect areas today to see if I get any relief. Let me know what you found out. Thanks
I'm in the final stages of leasing a LS460 but am having a problem finding the color I want (Obsidian w/black) in a car with the ML system. There are a couple cars out there with Nav, but not the ML, plus they are about $4k cheaper since they also opt for the comfort pkg instead of the comfort plus, which has no value for me. I've always had the ML system in my previous cars and it's been fine, but in the car I either use the radio or home made CD's and I wonder if the difference is that big a deal. I'd appreciate any feedback from those that have experience with both.
I've been exposed to three Lexus radio systems -- Mark Levinson, Lexus Premium Sound System (I think this is their basic radio) and Nackamichi (spelled wrong, I know).
I am not an audiophile by any means. I generally listen to contemporary, jazz, and 80,90's pop with the volume at around 30-40% of full strength.
Without the Levinson, you cannot watch DVD's. I purchased an 07 LS460 with Nav, but no Levinson. Then installed a Nav bypass kit so I could use the Nav even when driving. This kit would also allow use of the DVD while in motion, but I don't have Levinson, so I can't watch movies while I drive.
That nav bypass kit will come in handy -- don't know why Lexus lawyers don't allow full access even if it senses a person in the passenger seat.
Jim 9921... your best bet is to try out the stereos at the dealer and let your ears decide. Under normal listening conditions I really think that unless you have an affinity for pristine audiophonics you won't be able to tell much difference, if any. Perhaps if you load up a cd with lots of orchestral strings, guitars, etc. you might be able to hear a richer, crisper sound on the ML.
The ML is definitely better in sound quality and amentities but the base unit is pretty good imho. Let YOUR ears decide if it's worth the price differential..
Self destructive Lexus/Mark Levinson amplifier I am a longtime Lexus LS400 & LS430 owner ever since Toyota made the Lexus brand. I bought my second Lexus because of the Mark Levinson system. It is supposed to be the top of the line audio equipment. However, I just had a very scary experience recently. When I started my LS430 (with the Mark Levinson system), there were a lot of loud popping sounds like gun shots. The radio came on very loud in between the popping sound. I tried to lower the volume and turn off the radio but neither one worked. I had to roll down the windows to avoid hurting my ears and stop the car. I started and stopped the car several times and finally the popping sound was gone. The Mark Levinson radio/CD system was completely dead. My car has only 52,000 miles driven when this thing happened. I took the car to the Lexus dealer for inspection. The technician wrote on the inspection report: 'Mark Levinson amplifier malfunctioning internally'. To get my radio back to work, I paid $500.00 for a new Mark Levinson amplifier and $148.00 to install. Needless to say, I am very, very disappointed. I have been very proud of owning the top of the line Mark Levinson system but not any more.
Can anyone share an analysis of the advantages of buying the Long wheel base version of the LS460? I have seen a couple of posts that there are certain standard features on the long wheel base that offset much of the increase in price.
Is the 2013 LS460 going to be a semi-upgrade like the 2004 LS430 was? Or is it more like a routine touch-up like most ordinary years? I gather the price is definitely going up. Is it worth it?
Hi rennybosch, I remember your name from when I bought my 2001 LS 430 EuroSport. Hopefully by now you've seen what "Lexus Enthusiast" says: "..the 2013 Lexus LS is a modern reinterpretation of the fourth generation LS, with significant upgrades in design, handling, and technology. All told, 3,000 parts have been modified in the new model, including an all-new interior,.." See: http://lexusenthusiast.com/2012/08/11/2013-lexus-ls-preview/
By the way, I've started a new Discussion Title Thread called "2013 Lexus LS" with some questions of my own, but have not gotten a response yet, probably because, very little info about technical specifications and option packages have come out yet. http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/WebX/.f261cfc/0
Havent posted in ages on here but the 2013 LS looks to be an upgrade rather than a redesign and it may last only 2-3 years. This is per Automobile mag. The fact that the car name goes unchanged seems to bear that out. The true re-design may be based on the LF-CC or LF-LC designs and will likely debut as a 2016 model. My bet is if that's the case than it may come out as early as Spring 2015. Both the CC and LC have gotten rave reviews and it makes sense that Lexus may want to take a wait and see attitude about new S (2014) and new 7 series (2015) before committing on revolutionary change to the LS. The new S is supposed to be a revolutionary change for Mercedes, especially on the interior, with both a different style interior and different technology. So this 2013 LS may only be a "buying time car" and in the Automobile article Lexus seems to confirm this based on the last 2 paragraphs in the link below. Both of the future designs are spectacular but I especially like the CC.
Comments
I didn't special order my car. They have exactly three standard versions of the 460L here in Southern California: Two at around 80K and the "everything" at 86K. Only the "everything" had the two features that I wanted, and that does include the park-o-matic. So far I've only tried it once in a big parking lot with lots of room. I found it is a little tricky (if I may use that Nixonian adjective) to set it up, but once I figured that out it worked perfectly; i.e. it backed into the exact space that I had selected. The challenge is to move the parking frame on the nav screen to the exact position in the rear camera view where you want to end up. Of course that is assuming that there is nothing wrong with the car.
Good luck with the 450h.
Renny
Didn't know you are a SOCAL person...where did you get it?
I'm not interested in price; rather would like to hear your take on dealers in this area re service, etc. I would rate Vista #1 (bought 2 there), Cerritos #2 (1 purchase), South Bay (My 460 was from them), and Keyes Van Nuys a DISTANT last place, unless one can start with the salesman who sold me my first 430. Comments?
Re park-o-matic...my mishap occurred when the system did not recognize a high curb and alert me to the presence of an obstacle which would clearly impact the fender skirt. Screen resolution is not adequate for my tired eyeballs to pick out details like curb height; dammit that is what sensors, servos, and warning chimes are for! I assume they understand the dynamics of trigonometry. However, in fairness to Lexus, they refunded my $700 when even they could not make it obey. Based on numerous comments with chat rooms, a New York Times automotive editor called me and we talked for a while about my experiences, and he included a snippet in his article regarding this feature.
What soured me on Tustin was that when I said to the service writer, "I read on the Internet that when you rotate the tires you should include the spare tire in order to get more wear out of your tires. Did you do that?" he said, "Oh yes, absolutely. We always do that." A month later I called back and said, "I just heard that you should not include the spare when rotating tires." That guy said, "That's right. With radial tires you have to keep them on the same side of the car. We know that."
But in fairness it is probably true that you can have good and bad experiences everywhere.
Any regrets after a few weeks or months?
Perhaps someone else here has a thought for you.
Normal
Comfort
Sport
The height increase/decrease is a separate adjustment. The car rides very smooth in all 3 and floats the best in comfort. Sport tightens everything up and improves handling but the ride is still luxuriously smooth and perfect. My car, which is a LWB, handles bumps beautifully and the bump has to be a pretty good sized one to even feel it in the car.
I don't understand what is so worth the money in those items.
Having moved into a GM product I am pleasantly surprised to find several options that work better than any of the 5 Lexi I have owned. Standard equipment on my new Buick is heated steering wheel, laminated glass all around, tilt mirrors that actually allow curb visibility for parking, logical seat deployment upon exit, and great seat heaters that allow a choice between seatback only or seatback and cushion. They cool the driver and passenger also, just like the Lexus.
I would give the advantage to Lexus for the NAV system and the ML stereo except the MP-3 port on the GM machine is much handier than the Lexus, which is placed in the rear of the center console in a black hole requiring a flashlight to find. Fit and finish is comparable and there is no need to look for those blasted fasteners Lexus uses on the engine covers which pop out and disappear whenever one must remove a cover to check what is underneath. Note also that Lexus techs are not too diligent in replacing those that are lost...holes are left empty, since most owners never raise the hood?
Finally, I cannot detect wind noise with the Buick...a frequent topic of complaint on this link.
This is my 10th Lexus. I wish to hell I had kept my LS430. I think this will be my last Lexus.
Now I am really :confuse:
I am thinking of getting a x5 as my future and next car but for reliability i am thinking getting a lexus as my next future car
but ur review is surprising
My 08 LS460 is the LWB. I do get the impression that the SWB version is less perfect. I gather yours is the SWB?
Renny
I wouldn't say they build bad cars some problems nothing very big or maybe the exceptional of the GS recall, still they do build better reliability than the european cars.
1. Sometimes driving this car is so sweet, I think I am dreaming. It can be smooth in acceleration through all gears and tons of power. At other times, usually at slower speeds, the care can rev a little between shifts, seems sluggish, and noisier than the time I drove it before. I call it my Jekel & Hyde car.
2. Of course there is the wind noise on the driver side window.
3. The brakes are hard to make a smooth stops.
4. The command center is too complex to work and is a joke. My new top of the line Chevy pickup truck shames this Lexus in its simplicity.
5. The car tends to catch groves in the street, pulling the car left or right, especially noticeable when braking.
6. It is difficult to hold the car precisely in curves.
7. Some time the high pressure injectors make alot of noise. Sometimes they make none.
When I take the car to the dealer complaining about any of this, they don't know what to do. My conclusion is that if you want a car that has exquisite fit and finish, goes fast in a straight line, and is smooth as glass doing it (most of the time), then buy an LS 460. If you want a car that goes pretty fast, can do just about anything the Lexus can do with more simplicity, and costs a lot less, buy a Buick or something else. Lexus has screwed this car up. I will not buy another.
P.S. - I drove both the big BMW and Mercedes before I bought the LS. All three of these cars have gone off the deep end on gadgets. It seems to be a battle of the whistles and bells instead of the ease of operation. I would say the Lexus still has a ways to go on everything but fit and finish when comparing to the other two. Of course, it is a little cheaper, for what that is worth.
I am looking at the Smoky Granite & black leather combination ...did you get any response good or bad on this color combo ?
That's really all I know about the matter.
No mention on the "L" having the same deal.
It looks like the 460's are finally coming down in price. That is GREAT news.
Now the LX570 needs to follow suit......
Lexus has spoiled me into thinking of the LS as being "fairly priced" in the high 50's, low 60's. Dealers have been trying to take advantage of the "ALL NEW LS!!" to "mercederize" their prices but I think that party is now coming to a close.
Aside from the greater HP, the difference between the 430 (selling at near invoice its last few years here in South Fla.) and the 460 just doesn't seem like enough to justify the price jumps dealers have been trying to sustain. The LS went from mid to high 50K "real world" sale prices to 70K on the 460. Lease prices jumped from 700 to 800 per month for 36 months to well over $1000 per month.
That's one of the problems with achieving near perfection -- what else can they do or add to these cars to make them pricier yet still appear to be a good value? The self parking gimmick was cute, but who really wants that and is willing to pay a premium for it?
I know this is totally subjective, but in my mind the LS has always been, and always should be, the nicer looking, more reliable, and much less expensive S class alternative.
Now that the newness is wearing off the 460 and the early adopters have had their fun, perhaps the car will now become more accessible to us regular folks.
In other words, perhaps my wife will let me get one now!
Thanks
I'd appreciate any feedback from those that have experience with both.
I am not an audiophile by any means. I generally listen to contemporary, jazz, and 80,90's pop with the volume at around 30-40% of full strength.
To me, all three systems sound the same.
Better trained ears will beg to differ, I'm sure.
That nav bypass kit will come in handy -- don't know why Lexus lawyers don't allow full access even if it senses a person in the passenger seat.
Jim 9921... your best bet is to try out the stereos at the dealer and let your ears decide. Under normal listening conditions I really think that unless you have an affinity for pristine audiophonics you won't be able to tell much difference, if any. Perhaps if you load up a cd with lots of orchestral strings, guitars, etc. you might be able to hear a richer, crisper sound on the ML.
Let us know what you decide....
I am a longtime Lexus LS400 & LS430 owner ever since Toyota made the Lexus brand. I bought my second Lexus because of the Mark Levinson system. It is supposed to be the top of the line audio equipment.
However, I just had a very scary experience recently. When I started my LS430 (with the Mark Levinson system), there were a lot of loud popping sounds like gun shots. The radio came on very loud in between the popping sound. I tried to lower the volume and turn off the radio but neither one worked. I had to roll down the windows to avoid hurting my ears and stop the car. I started and stopped the car several times and finally the popping sound was gone. The Mark Levinson radio/CD system was completely dead.
My car has only 52,000 miles driven when this thing happened.
I took the car to the Lexus dealer for inspection. The technician wrote on the inspection report: 'Mark Levinson amplifier malfunctioning internally'.
To get my radio back to work, I paid $500.00 for a new Mark Levinson amplifier and $148.00 to install. Needless to say, I am very, very disappointed. I have been very proud of owning the top of the line Mark Levinson system but not any more.
2007 460 SWB
Fuel economy city 18-19 miles
Fuel economy Highway 27 miles
2008 460 SWB
Fuel economy city 16 miles
Fuel economy Highway 24 miles
Is this true? Any reason for this drop in fuel economy?
Wabends :surprise:
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=352398
blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2008/09/lexus-ls-460-ge.html
Nothing new except AWD option.
Trade-In Private
Party Dealer
Retail
$38,935 $41,537 $43,500
for Albuquerque, NM
These days there is problem in everything, nothing is perfect.
Would welcome any insight.
By the way, I've started a new Discussion Title Thread called "2013 Lexus LS" with some questions of my own, but have not gotten a response yet, probably because, very little info about technical specifications and option packages have come out yet.
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/WebX/.f261cfc/0
I still have the '01 LS430, as well as an '04 LS430 (that was a nice upgrade), and an '08 LS460L, at least in the family. Everybody loves them.
Renny
http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/driven/1208_2013_lexus_ls_460/
LF-CC:
http://www.lexus.com/concept/lfcc/index.html
LF-LC:
http://www.lexus.com/concept/