Questions About Private Sale Transactions

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  • eyedocbaileyeyedocbailey Member Posts: 4
    OK,
    Thanks for the advice
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    Have her call DMV. They'll advise her what's what. Or you can call DMV anonymously and inquire about the problem and advise her. In that way, you can push it along.
  • eyedocbaileyeyedocbailey Member Posts: 4
    Good idea.Thanks
  • smithsongasmithsonga Member Posts: 123
    I am about to sell our vehicle that has a GMAC lien on it. GMAC is NOT helpful in this regard. They do not release title or even a copy of title with a lien on it until the vehicle is paid off.

    What is the best procedure between two private individuals? The buyer cannot drive off in the vehicle until they have it registered and insured to them, which requires a title. They will not want to give me any money until they get a title of the vehicle, but I need the money to pay off the vehicle.

    How is this done and why is it so difficult? GMAC is a huge bank and I cannot find local offices to make this transaction, which would be the easiest answer.

    Georgia DMV says they cannot do anything without a title.

    Anyone?!?!?!?!?

    Thx
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    What you do is get a form from DMV that is a transfer of ownership form--it includes a bill of sale, mileage declaration and names of seller and buyer. So you fill this out together.

    Your buyer takes this to DMV to START the registration process and pay the fees---they won't get a registration or a title but they will get a print out from DMV that they have started the reg process. This should tide them over and allow them to drive the car (presuming they have their own insurance---they don't need to register the car to get insurance).

    You can move things along smartly by WIRING the loan payoff to GMAC, and paying them to EXPEDITE the title to you overnight.

    So really the whole thing can be done in a couple of days. It's a PITA, but it's the only way. GMAC doesn't actually have a real paper title on your car, only an electronic one. They have to generate a paper title and send it off, and they sure as hell won't do that without a pay-off.

    Your buyer has to understand this, and do their part at DMV to get their side of the ball rolling. With the signed Bill of Sale and reg transfer form you give them, they can prove ownership to a cop, DMV, etc.
  • smithsongasmithsonga Member Posts: 123
    thanks for the comments.

    When I talked to DMV, they were amazingly no help. I asked about taking a bill of sale document to them, and they said they needed a title to do anything. I think I talked to someone not that knowledgable.

    I found a Georgia Title/Tag application and a Bill of Sale document. The bill of sale doc says that it is not accepted to transfer ownership without a title, but it must be enough to get the ball rolling. This document and the DMV work should satisfy them that they own the car as we get the document moving.

    However, I would not expect to allow them to drive the car away until we sign title, correct?
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 194,238
    ..in our area.. FWIW..

    1) Buyer provides check for payoff amount of loan.. Buyer takes car.

    2) When title comes back.. seller provides title in exchange for buyer providing the balance of the agreed amount to seller.

    A little trust is involved. This way, both parties have something the other still needs.. You really can't expect a buyer to give you thousands of dollars for the payoff without any security.

    Another way to do it, is to meet the buyer at his local bank (assuming he is borrowing money). That way, you put a 3rd party in charge, who is intent on clear title being delivered, and monies being disbursed properly.

    Hope that helps a little,
    kyfdx
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  • smithsongasmithsonga Member Posts: 123
    thanks.

    If they drive away the vehicle, they of course must have the insurance, but what about registration/plates? They cannot get either without a title. Just get my plates back when we transfer title?

    I assume they want to meet me to give me the remainder of the $ because *I* have the title..and they cannot register the truck without it.

    if we go to their bank, I assume they can faciliate the transfer of funds to GMAC etc..etc..?
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 194,238
    Yes to all of those things...

    They just need the VIN number of the car to get covered by their insurance.

    If they are getting financing through a local bank, then meeting them there... signing papers (most banks have notarys on staff), having the funds wired to GMAC.... those are all easy things to accomplish with an experienced loan officer.

    Plus, at that point, both you and the buyer are obviously intent on completing the deal... It makes things a lot easier..

    regards,
    kyfdx

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  • cccompsoncccompson Member Posts: 2,388
    If the buyer is getting a loan on the vehicle - yes, it can go pretty smooth utilizing a bank.

    However, in the absence of third party, the buyer's best security is to make the check jointly payable to the seller and the lien holder (here GMAC). Not that there can't still be headaches. I bought a car a couple of years ago and it took the lender almost 3 weeks to deliver the title to the seller. And the buyer was kicking the lender as hard as he could (I saw the fax correspondence).

    I would not let any buyer drive off in a car that's still in my name.
  • steine13steine13 Member Posts: 2,833
    Can't one get a loan for the balance? I could dig it out of my HELOC, or even my credit union's credit card; it'd be something like 12% interest but no fee. 12% is 1% for one month, and a quarter of that for a week.

    For that, I could have the title in hand, making it a much easier car to sell.

    Since nobody else has suggested it, I figured I would...

    -Mathias
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    You can file a form with DMV (usually online) for "release of liability" so that the buyer CAN drive off with your plates.

    If the buyer gives you the money, you have to give them the car. Who would give you a cashier's check for X thousands of dollars and then walk away?

    Yes---The bank could perform an escrow of sorts (most banks hate doing this) but that only means they would hold the buyer's money and only put it in your account when the bank gets the title. This sounds more complicated than it's worth.

    I just did a deal like this. Got a check from the buyer, gave them the car, bill of sale, mileage statement, transfer of ownership form, and send Release of Liability to DMV with their name and driver's license # on it). . Then I wired the money to my finance company (E-Loan), and I got the title in 3 days----Fedexed it to new buyer.
    They in turn, started the registration process (they paid the sales tax and reg fees) and got a print out (receipt). Now they can take my title and complete the registration.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 194,238
    That's a great idea.... and, I've done that myself...

    I always figure if someone can't figure out what to do... then, they don't have this option..

    The other drawback, of course.. is if you aren't sure you can sell your car.. or, may not be willing to take the market price... then, you've lost your car loan..

    regards,
    kyfdx

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  • smithsongasmithsonga Member Posts: 123
    So they gave you 100% of the money and not just the amount for the payoff?

    I am not too happy with a check to be honest. A wire from their bank to either GMAC or my acct, which would then go to GMAC. Then I get the remainder with title transfer.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    I got a cashier's check for the loan amount and a personal check for the balance, the later of which I verified at the bank prior to turning over the car. Then I deposited both checks, (cashier check clears immediately) and wired the loan amount to the finance company.

    I never did a sale where I was upside down on a car but that would just require you adding money to the wire transfer.

    You know, every situation is different. If you are suspicious of the buyer in any way, you have to play your cards tighter than I did.

    By the way, I got a printed title in a couple of days.

    In any event, they don't make it easy, neither the bank or the finance company. Having a local credit union to deal with would have been a lot easier for me, but E-Loan gave me a great rate and a fast decision.
  • cccompsoncccompson Member Posts: 2,388
    Title law varies by state and it sounds as though California has figured out a way to facilitate matters.

    No such luck here in Ohio where the plates don't go with the car and the old owner remains liable until a title issued in the new owner's name.

    As far as your question about who would give a check to a seller, I've done it successfully but, hey, you've got to have some idea that you're dealing with a responsbile individual.
  • title2008title2008 Member Posts: 1
    Quick question

    I just bought a car from a friend for the sole purpose of reselling it. They wanted to sell it private party as dealerships weren't offering much as a trade-in, but can't sell it themselves for various reasons. So I bought it and we will share the proceeds when it sells. They'll end up with more for their car and I will make a little money for my efforts.

    I paid them, they paid off the lien on the car and had the bank send me the title. I have the title but it is still in my friend's name. In order to sell this car do I need go to the DMV and get it titled in my name (and deal with the fees and hassles and possible taxes involved?)

    or can my friend just sign it over to me right on the title, and I sign it over to the final buyer?

    State is florida

    Thanks for your help.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 29,491
    well, i don't know your state laws, but how it would work here in NJ and how I would do it is have the friend sign the title, but you don't sign it. If you sign it, then you bought it and you'd have to pay taxes and register it. Right now, your friend is the owner and you should leave it that way until someone buys it and they become the new owner.

    '07 ML63, '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c, '14 Town&Country Limited. 54-car history and counting!

  • cccompsoncccompson Member Posts: 2,388
    I'd be more inclined to have the titled owner sign it directly over to whomever you broker it to.
  • jahidjahid Member Posts: 5
    I have never bought from private party. i have tested the car, have come up with the price, now how would I pay and get the car? how would I know he/she is selling his/her car? not a case of fraud? tips? what are the common red flags in a car sale. for his part i do not have any problem to pay by vashier check/cash?
  • kiawahkiawah Member Posts: 3,666
    We meet at the buyers bank, who usually have a teller with a notary stamp to notarize the signatures on the title, and have his bank issue a bank check to the seller.
  • jahidjahid Member Posts: 5
    thanks. So, in the bank, he gives me the title and the keys? and I tell my insurance company to provide the insurance, right? After I give him the check I do want to get the position of the car.
    how the title will be transfered. for a new car, I would have 30 days to apply. is there a reciept? or bank tellers notary stamp is the reciept? so i can prove i bought this car.
    my next question would be, if I have a kelly's blue book value (let us assume I can give the exact description of the car as an input for the car), is it the maximum I should pay? any rule of thumb?
  • kiawahkiawah Member Posts: 3,666
    Well you are confusing the DMV registration items, with the financial transaction. If you have not done this before, by all means get assistance by someone knowledgeable with autos and financial transactions of this type.

    Buyer looks at vehicle, drives it, has it inspected by mechanic if he wants, checks carfax for prior damage if he wants, has aunt/uncle/father look at it if he wants, goes get 2nd opinion if he wants...but at some point decides he wants it. Begins negotiation w/seller as to the price they are willing to agree on. This price is the market price, and it will be whatever the buyer and seller agree to....irregardless of what any books or websites might say.

    Seller brings the 'clear' title (no lien) and the keys to the buyers bank. Buyer brings a check, or just his account information. If you want to write a bill of sale just write up that buyer A, buys VIN#123234526345 wiggiewhat from seller B, on date 1/23/2008 for 12,000.
    You go to the notary bank teller, who witnesses seller signing the title, and notarizes it. Teller withdraws the money from buyers account, and issues a bank check to the seller. Buyer and seller sign the bill of sale, notarize it if you want.

    Seller goes home with check, deposits in his own bank.

    Buyer takes the title, keys, copy of bill of sale to state DMV. Fills out application for registration, title, and plates, provides proof of insurance. Buyer pays dmv the sales tax, registeration fees, plate fees, etc. You get perm or temp plates, based upon however your state handles it. You go home w/plates, bolt them on your back, and go driving. Some period of time later, you get new title in the mail. If your state originally issues paper temp plates, you get the real ones in the mail. This process at DMV will all vary state to state, but you get the picture.
  • cccompsoncccompson Member Posts: 2,388
    Before you go anywhere, examine the title and compare its information with the VIN. This does two things - avoids problems down the line and establishes the present owner. Write the VIN down so you can call your insurance agent at whatever point s/he needs the information.

    Wherever it happens, the seller should hand you the keys, remotes, any service records available, owner's manual, radio code, and the title properly assigned to you. At this time, you will hand the seller the money in whatever form as been agreed upon. Depending upon your state (and/or the parties' inclinations), one or both of you may want to execute a bill of sale.

    As for price, KBB and the like are just guides (and not usually good ones) - see the Real World Trade-in Value topic. It's your responsiblity to do your homework ahead of time to have a clear idea of current market conditions.
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    That is a really good summary - thanks!

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  • middleageguymiddleageguy Chicago areaMember Posts: 42
    I am selling a 1989 Jeep Wrangler and is co-titled son and father.

    My son received a reply on facebook offering to pay more than the asking price and send a tow truck and cash for the jeep. Is this legal? Scam?
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H EdmundsAdministrator Posts: 11,132
    Probably a scam, and by "cash" he probably means a bogus cashier's check.

    Think about it... why would someone offer more than asking price? Are there no Jeep Wrangler's in this person's area? As far as I know, it's not a rare vehicle. Would a reasonable person likely buy a vehicle sight unseen?

    What would probably happen is that he would send you more than the amount and his "client" or "friend" would come & take your car away. Days later, your bank would tell you the check was a fake. So now you're out the money and the car is long gone.

    If someone will not show up in person to look at and pay for the vehicle, there's a good chance it's a scam. Maybe not, but it's probably not worth taking the chance when you can likely unload the vehicle locally using safer, traditional payment arrangements.

    Check out places like Craigslist for their warnings on the many variations of this scam.

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  • middleageguymiddleageguy Chicago areaMember Posts: 42
    Yes, I agree. Facebook is not a good place to sell something.

    I am putting an add in the local paper. Thanks.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    Total scam.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H EdmundsAdministrator Posts: 11,132
    You can always put an ad on Craigslist. It's free, and a friend of mine sold her used vehicle within 4 hours of placing the ad - of course she lives near a college, but still... might be worth a shot if you live in a reasonably-sized metro area.

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  • cccompsoncccompson Member Posts: 2,388
    I sold two cars via craigslist over the Christmas holidays. Surprisingly, both went to out of town buyers. Plus, had a potential back-up buyer for each one. Each was advertised for less than $5000.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H EdmundsAdministrator Posts: 11,132
    Yeah, my friend was asking $4700 and had people waiting in her driveway in case buyer #1 balked. It was a '99 Mazda 626, I believe, with 67K miles on it... a dream car for a college student or new grad.

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  • middleageguymiddleageguy Chicago areaMember Posts: 42
    Yes, I will try Craig's List. Has anyone tried eBay motors. Hundreds of Jeep Wranglers listed.
  • cheesynoodlescheesynoodles Member Posts: 1
    Hi,

    I am in process of buying a 2005 Scion TC from a private seller. When I ran the vin through carfax and autocheck, everything was clear except I noticed a couple of things missing. Normally any other cars show the manufacturer, body style, where or when it was built, etc info but this vehicle only shows that the make is Scion. And the very first part of record says that it was registered at 13,996 miles in 2006. Now I asked the seller about it and he said he bought the car from carmax in 2006 with 13,996 miles on it. But how come neither carfax nor autocheck show any history before that? Has anyone had similar experience or know if this sounds fishy?

    Thank you for your time
  • cccompsoncccompson Member Posts: 2,388
    I've never seen such an omission on a Carfax record. Since both sources match, I can't help but wonder whether the vehicle was imported after it's first sale (don't know if either source taps foreign records).

    In any event, my two cents would be to steer clear of any three year old car that's had two (or more) owners.
  • kiawahkiawah Member Posts: 3,666
    Rental? Very long term Demo for someone??
  • mankumanku Member Posts: 76
    Well, maybe not so weird but a little unusual. I have a 2004 A4 listed in AutoTrader...a 19 year old from OC came to see it (seems like a real, good, trustworthy kid).

    Loves car, however the problem is that he totaled his old A4 and has about 8K in aftermarket parts on old car (which is sitting, wrecked, in his driveway)...insurance won't pay him until he turns over old car, but he needs my car to swap out parts. for example, he has a short shifter. he wants to swap out mine for his, so that when the insurance company picks it up, the car won't be missing any parts.

    So, basically, I have to give him the car which he'll then take to his aftermarket shop...they swap out parts, then gets check from farmers insurance and gives me check.

    How, if possible, do i protect myself? A letter or agreement signed by both of us? A decent deposit?

    BTW, I'm not dying to get rid of the car...but he's the first offer i've gotten in 7 months!

    Thanks in advance.
  • cccompsoncccompson Member Posts: 2,388
    I don't see any realistic way that you can really protect yourself. Sure, he might be a good kid and all that, but installing these parts is NOT going to increase the value of your ride. If something goes wrong (all too easy to have happen), you've stuck holding the bag.

    The kid should settle with the insurance company and buy his car back from them if he wants to take stuff off of it.
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    How, if possible, do i protect myself?

    Even if the young man is a real good and trustworthy kid, he is putting you into the position of lender and you're taking a risk. Neither you nor he have any guarantee that he will get the necessary funds from his insurance company. I would not lend money to a perfect stranger. He needs to borrow the funds from a third party and settle with you for cash.

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  • kiawahkiawah Member Posts: 3,666
    You don't give the whole list of stuff besides the shifter, so hard to say how 'way out' this stuff is. Lets say he has upgraded rims and tires. If you would be happy with the parts, then let the switch happen. You still own the car, and you have all the extra parts. If he doesn't show up with the check, he's 'given' you the parts.
  • zbest855zbest855 Member Posts: 13
    I'm selling my Infiniti to a person in another state, they want to pay me with a bank check when they come to pick up the car tomorrow, which I won't be able to verify until Monday.
    Can I/should I hold the title until the check clears?
    If the check is fake, would I report the car as stolen?
  • zekeman1zekeman1 Member Posts: 422
    I would hold the title until the check cleared. Too bad you didn't have the person make an electronic transfer to your bank account - that's what I did in the last car I sold and it was zero hassle.
    Z
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 29,491
    this is weird.

    But, other than wheels/tires, what parts would he take off of it that would be missed? I mean, the car is totalled. I assume its not driveable. So would anyone really miss a short shifter or CAI?

    I would tell him to bring over his wheels and tires and you'll give him your stock ones. Everything else he should just pull off the car and hold onto it. No need to mention anything to the insurance company. Heck, even if by some chance they say something, my response would be "gee. must have been knocked off in the accident. maybe its out there on I95."

    If he doesn't come through with the purchase, you could either sell your car with those aftermarket wheels or sell them separately and buy new stock wheels for yourself and possibly come out ahead (assuming the aftermarket wheels are more expensive).

    '07 ML63, '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c, '14 Town&Country Limited. 54-car history and counting!

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    NO WAY! Don't do this :cry:

    Besides, the insurance company doesn't want his car. He could easily buy it back from them for 10-13% of the total compensation. Then he could strip off the parts at leisure and junk the car--perhaps not for what he paid, but not too much less.

    So he's not being entirely up front with you here.

    I wouldn't let anyone lay a finger on your car until it's paid for.
  • mankumanku Member Posts: 76
    Ok...a little more detail. He has shown me a picture of old car before accident with rims, shifter and a 400hp engine. That is what needs to be swapped.

    He calls me today and I tell him I need to be protected - $1000 deposit, and copy of drivers license, pink slip and all his insurance contact information (farmers). He is going to scan and email tomorrow morning. He wants to swap out parts, farmers picks up car, then sends me check.

    He says farmers is settling for 22k+, and will pick up car later this week.

    What is my financial risk? If he disappears, can't I just say the car has been stolen (which it has). I'd like to dump the car - it needs new tires and brakes (that $1K), and buy a new one. I won't get close to this price on a trade in.

    Thanks again.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 29,491
    Suggest he get a loan elsewhere and pay that with the check he gets from insurance. Essentially, he is borrowing the money from you. Not something I would do with a stranger, that's for sure.

    '07 ML63, '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c, '14 Town&Country Limited. 54-car history and counting!

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaMember Posts: 64,482
    I think you are letting your attachment to the selling price cloud your vision, is all I'm saying. He is pressurizing you into something that needs no pressure. He's already doing something dishonest, so why do you trust him? If he settled for $22K, that car is not his property, anymore than you settling on a price with him and then swapping the tires and removing the sound system before you deliver it to him.

    And what if someone screws up your car removing parts and then says "oh we don't want it, it doesn't run right?"
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    Another thing you may not want to get in the middle of here is if there is a salvage bid on the wrecked car then that salvage bid is based off what is on it. If he strips the car and that causes the salvage bidder to back out on the insurance company you are no an accessory to the crime.

    This is not the insurance companies first rodeo, they know how the car is equipped. They people good money to make professional evaluations of these cars, along with pictures.

    I think you are asking for trouble myself.
  • middleageguymiddleageguy Chicago areaMember Posts: 42
    Sold my Jeep Wrangler in less than a week on Craigs List.
  • thejax2006thejax2006 Member Posts: 3
    Hello,

    I need to sell my car. My question is this...my car is financed, so I don't have the title. I need the money from the sale of the car to pay off the loan to get the title. Can someone please tell me what the process should be in a private sale? I mean...will a buyer give me the money without me giving him/her the title right away? Can I even do that legally?

    This is my first car so I'm very new to all of this..thanks for anyone who can help.

    Thanks
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