Subaru Forester (up to 2005)

kens · January 2003

A puff of smoke on startup is not a common occurance. While the layout of the boxer engine does keep more oil by the piston seals, the seals themselves should prevent significant amounts of oil from getting by.

I'd keep an eye on it. If it persists, you should take it into the dealer to have it documented and looked at.

Ken

lowellk · January 2003

Love wind through my hair
But open moonroof too much
Balding turbulence

speterson1 · January 2003

Frank, watch your Haiku
Five-seven-five is the way
You're a little off

Not here to chew out
Simply trying out new role
The Haiku Police

sartie · January 2003

Hello, all!

I'm building trouble-free miles rapidly on my '03 XS. I plan on keeping the car for 7 to 8 years and maybe accumulating 160,000 miles total. Can anyone suggest a Subaru dealer--anywhere in the US--who might offer the best price on the Subaru Exended Warranty?

burnsmr4 · January 2003

Folks,

I've noticed a questionable "whine" or "hum" coming from the transmission that can be felt as a buzzing through the accelerator on my foot. Started 1-2 months ago, although I thought it was just road noise at first. It is not.

The noise/feeling comes through when the car is pulling/accelerating at around 30-45mph around 2000-2200rpm. I cannot tell what "gear" it's in, since it's an auto tranny. The whining noise is audible in the cabin as well.

Has anyone experienced this? Sign of transmission trouble or need to have the tranny checked? I'm at 16K miles and about 2-3 weeks overdue on a service which will be handled next week.

Thanks,
burnsmr4

kens · January 2003

sartie: Where are you located? Have you tried shopping around your local dealers for the Extended Warranty?

burnsmr4: Hard to tell what it might be based on your description, but be sure to have your dealer document the concern and look at it. Since it occurs at a particular speed and engine RPM, it seems like it could be tranny related. Have you tried replicating the problem with the gear selector in other than "D"?

Ken

ddunbar · January 2003

We bought our 2003 X in late August. My wife found it discharge a big puff of smoke one morning the first month and then it really sputtered for her until she turned it off and restarted. That seemed to clear it up for that day. We've had a few other times when it has stalled or sputtered, but the dealer has not found anything in their tests. The poor performance is so occasional that it's doubtful we'll get it to repeat for them. Also, our gas mileage has been as low as 17 on one tank in November; I'm not sure is the fuel is now oxegynated here in the Bay Area but our mileage has been a definite disappointment. Suggestions?

Don

harkey1 · January 2003

Have had my new Forester about a week now. I really like my new Subie (first one I've had). But there's one thing that has me scratching my head. This new auto climate control thing is freaky. It wants to run the A/C much more often that I think is appropriate. Here it is January in the midwest, and it keeps turning the A/C on. Also, does pushing the "recirc" button supposed to turn on the A/C? Mine does.

rsay777 · January 2003

Just a few further notes on firing up the 03. I picked mine up in Aug 02 and noticed right away that it took more cranks than the old Legacy to start the engine. I count 5 every time. I thought it might be the new engine but now with 6k it is still the same. One other oddity is a few times during the first month it would start and then immediately die. It hasn't had this problem recently however. I've never seen a puff of smoke during start up. FYI, Bob L.

kens · January 2003

Don: Our gas in the Bay Area is still oxygenated. I believe gas companies now use ethanol instead of MTBE. Oxygenates definetly reduce gas milage, but 17 does sound pretty low. What brand of gas do you use? I've found that 76 or Chevron gas typically gives good results.

As for the puff of smoke -- what color was it? White usually indicates some type of coolant leak, whereas blue indicates oil. Which dealer do you use? Santa Cruz Subaru is awesome and Carlsen Subaru is pretty good. Take you vehicle in and have your concerns documented thoroughly.

harkey1: I think all auto climate control systems make more use of the A/C. Not only is it set to kick in when the cabin goes above a certain temperature, but it also will kick in based on the the vent direction (ie. defrost).

Ken

Ken

burnsmr4 · January 2003

Thanks for the feedback kens. I am going to have the dealer test it. It's inconsistent, but hopefully the service guys won't tell me that is doesn't exist just because they didn't hear it. If that was how things went about existing, I'd be single, seeing as I don't listen to hardly anything my wife says. ;-)

burnsmr4

ddunbar · January 2003

Ken: I had been using 76 or Valero gas depending on when I needed to fill the tank. I've tried Shell for the last couple of tanks and it's been a bit better - 24 on the last tank with almost all highway miles. This tank is back to the surface roads so I'll be interested to see how it turns out.

Our neighbor saw the puff of smoke as my wife was driving but did not tell us the color. I'll need to ask her.

We bought the car at Albany Ford Subaru and have had them do the service. They are very convenient to where we live. Anyone else have experience with them?

Don

joseph50 · January 2003

Type One post on a gas-related topic: A certain one or certain few brands are recommended (e.g., "76 or Chevron is best for my vehicle.")

Type Two post: "All fuels in a specified octane rating - no matter what the brand - are the same," and this is backed up by testimonies by retired station owners who purchase the stuff. "Pricing and highly subjective popular perception drive the bottom line" is the line.

So, what is the consumer to believe?

eps105 · January 2003

harkey1, I also find the climate control to be quirky, but I am sure there are design purposes for them. I found that whenever the cabin reaches the set temperature, even if it is 25 degrees outside, the A/C will turn on to help maintain the temperature and "condition" the air.

This is annoying when it is cold out, and wastes fuel and power. So I simply press the A/C button to override that when it turns on. Even though the AUTO light also turns off, the climate control stays in automatic mode with the A/C simply overridden. This has worked out pretty well for me.

What the controls are lacking, and which I have seen in other Auto climate systems, in an ECON mode which minimizes the use of A/C. (I think the LL Bean and VDC Outback have the Economy mode.)

As far as the A/C turning on when you press RECIRC, mine does not do that, but A/C will turn on when you press the Defog button, by design. Are you sure you're not getting your buttons mixed up?

Elliot

gened1 · January 2003

I was just informed via letter today that the parts are in for the transmission recall.I was informed to call the dealer which I did and have an appointment next Friday. They say it will take about 2-21/2 hours. Has anyone had it done yet?
Did you notice any difference in the performance of the transmission?
Gene

kens · January 2003

burnsmr4: My wife's VW Jetta had a whining sound at a particular speed and it turned out to be a too-tight pinion ring in the transmission (or something like that).

Don: Albany Subaru doesn't have a very good reputation for both sales and service (how was your experience?). In fact, I used to live just minutes away in El Cerrito, but I went to Broadway Subaru (Oakland) to buy my Forester.

You can bring your Subaru into any dealer to have it looked at. My experience has been that it is well worth the effort of going to a better dealer for service. Again, Carlsen Subaru and Santa Cruz Subaru have both been good. I believe Diablo out in Walnut Creek and Marin Subaru are good also, but I don't have any personal experience with them. Broadway Subaru is quite small and not worth going to.

Joe: As you see from my post, I am of the first camp. I honestly believe that you get what you pay for in gas. While octane is one measure of the product's characteristics, there are other things that affect the gas like the detergent package and most importantly, quality control. Although I have no empirical evidence, I wouldn't be surprised if gas from a generic brand had more variation in octane readings, for example, than a major brand.

Now, whether the difference is perceptible in your particular vehicle is a different question. Some vehicles will run fine on the cheap stuff while others are very sensitive to it -- even within the same make and model. I think that's why you'll always hear the opposite argument that gas is gas. It really comes down to what works for you.

In my experience with other Subaru owners, it seems that changing the brand of gas sometimes alleviates a certain problem. Assuming that no other variable has changed, my guess is that there has to be some differences between brands of gas.

Ken

jimbob17 · January 2003

I bought a Forester
The Forester owns me
I'd have owned the Forester
If I'd have paid
CASH

kens · January 2003

Had too Google "Burma Shave" to kind of understand that one.

http://www.mc.cc.md.us/Departments/hpolscrv/mthomas.htm

Ken

ironsides1 · January 2003

Our '02 Legacy SE wagon had the repair done recently with "no side affects". Subaru Canada is allowing 1.4 hrs as paid time for the technican to complete the task which the tech felt was tight.

Jon

lfdal · January 2003

Re: Harkey1's comments: My auto climate control is "different" to say the least. I've had auto climate control on my last two merc sables and it was wonderfully consistent. This one seems to be all over the place as regards fan speed and the A/C cycling on and off. I agree with Elliot that overiding the A/C button doesn't degrade the temperature control. Also, I've found the easiest way to get the fan to quiet down is to raise the temperature set point above where I want it then as the cabin gets warm, back down the temperature. Seems to work well, and lets the fan still cycle up and down a bit, but overall I'd have to give Uncle Henry (Ford) the points on climate control. Also to Harkey1's comments my recirc button turns the A/C on - sometimes.

I've also recieved the transmission recall but plan on letting the dealer get plenty of practice before I take mine in.

As to gas mileage I get 19-21 in purely city driving, on 87 octane Mobil but when I drove back from the White Mountains in New Hampshire to Peabody MA, I got 27.1 mpg.

Thanks to everyone for making time spent on this group so rewarding.

Larry

lfdal · January 2003

Thought I'd ask this in the Forester group.... Does anyone have the rear air deflector installed? The feedback I've got on the Outback group is that they're worthwhile. I was thinking about one for my Forester. All opinions welcome.
Thanks
Larry

xccoachlou · January 2003

Have reviewed the 2003 Subaru Forester and includes the following "gem" from those witmeisters -

Subaru has a reputation for finding the tackiest fabrics available anywhere in the world and pouncing on them as seat cover materials. In one previous Subaru, we thought a dog had eaten multicolored dog biscuits, and then thrown up all over the interior. But the Forrester we drove was distinctly not bad....which is an improvement.

gened1 · January 2003

My rear air deflector does seem to keep the rear window pretty clean. I would have to say it is worth the money.
Gene

rsay777 · January 2003

I notice that the deflector does keep weather droppings moving down and off the window. This is a good thing. Bob L.

joybell · January 2003

Stars and moonshine and night air feel fine
Moonroof glory for nighttime!
See the Subaru cluster glowing up high
But watch those daytime birds when they let fly

stever · January 2003

If you can't get enough, visit Auto-Haiku 2003.

Steve, Host

jerrys2 · January 2003

Two more votes for the deflectors ...(most effective on my 2000 Outback Ltd and 2002 Forester S+)

rsunico · January 2003

Is anyone going next weekend (18/Jan-19/Jan) to the Detroit Auto Show? I found a cheap fare from La Guardia (140 R/t) so decided to mosy on over. If anyone has already gone and can recommend must see sights (aside from the new STI) please advise. Thanks.

johnennis · January 2003

hi seriously looking for the forester xs. what would be a good price, especially in the state of florida ?

jimbob17 · January 2003

Ken
Thanks for the link I enjoyed it.
We traveled a lot when we were kids. We would always look for the signs to read a new jingle.

joseph50 · January 2003

Thanks for the Car Talk review reference. I enjoy the program.

xccoachlou · January 2003

I am fairly certain that even the base 2.5X Forester comes with side airbags. Even the Subaru Forester brochure mentions this. Why, then, does Daniel Heraud mention in his review, "The Forester got good grades in crash tests given its relatively rigid structure and numerous body reinforcements. However, only the high-end version gets 4 front airbags." He also may be using the definition of "good" that I normally assign to excellent.

There are other things in his review, like the mention of a poor power to weight ratio that make me wonder just what he was testing, or what he considers a good power to weight ratio.

dcab · January 2003

You're right Lou, Mr. Heraud is mistaken. All 03 Foresters come with front side airbags that provide head protection. Perhaps he was thinking of the base Outback, which does not have side airbags. Limited and H-6 Outbacks do, but their airbags are smaller and don't provide the head protection for the front occupants like the Foresters.

Personally, I was disappointed that Subaru put upgrades like the cold weather package and a CD player into the 03 base Outback as standard features, when you can't even get side airbags as an option. This is one of the reasons that we bought a Forester rather than an Outback this summer.

I'd like to see Subaru put both side front airbags and side curtain airbags on all their cars as standard equipment, as Volkswagen seems to be doing.

joseph50 · January 2003

I regret that when reviewers praise the constant 4-wheel drive for its security factor on snowy and wet roads, there is no reference to what I respect most about this feature -- avoiding suddenly come upon objects in the middle of the road when travelling at speed.

rochcom · January 2003

I think a certain reviewer was relying on outdated information. His statement was true with respect to the 2002 model, when the side bags were offered only as part of the Premium package.

mjsnd80 · January 2003

I picked up my '03 Forester XS 5-speed on New Year's Eve. Great car! I'm in Maine, and we've had about three major snowstorms since then - and this car handles the sloppy stuff just great!

I purchased the Tweeter Kit and Compass/Auto-Dimming Mirror online, and installed them myself. The Tweeter Kit was SO EASY to do, it makes me angry to think a dealer charges about $40 to do something that took a non-mechanic like me less than five minutes, to do both sides! (Great sound upgrade too!!)

The Compass mirror required a screwdriver and took about ten minutes to install. Another very easy job for a non-mechanic.

So in fifteen minutes, I saved approximately $100! Nice work if you can get it!!!

By the way, if you're interested in pricing, my '03 XS 5-speed was $21,198 - a very good, end-of-calendar year price.

xccoachlou · January 2003

Dan Heraud writes, in his review of the 2003 Toyota RAV4, Performance: The 4-cylinder engine cranks out honest performance levels, thanks to a good weight-to-power ratio, especially when mated to the manual transmission despite the latters noticeable gap between second and third gears.

According to Edmunds, the 2003 4WD RAV4 with 5 Speed Manual weighs in at 2,877 lbs, and produces 148 HP at 6000RPM and 142 ft-lbs of Torque at 4000 RPM.

In his review of the 2003 Subaru Forester, Dan Heraud writes, "Performance: Acceleration especially pick-up is very average given the poor weight-to-power ratio. This mediocrity is emphasized when driving uphill or carrying a full load."

According to Edmunds, the heaviest Forester, the XS with Premium, Automatic Transmission, Moon Roof, and Leather weighs in at 3,175 lbs. The lightest Forester, the X with 5 Speed Manual weighs in at 3,090 lbs. All Foresters produce 165 HP at 5600 RPM and 166 ft-lbs of Torque at 4000 RPM.

The Power to Weight ratios are:

Toyota RAV 4 4WD, 5Spd = 19.44 HP/lb
Toyota RAV 4 2WD, 5Spd = 19.09 HP/lb
Forester XS Premium, Auto, Leather = 19.24 HP/lb
Forester XS Premium, Auto = 18.96 HP/lb
Forester X, 5 Spd = 18.72 HP/lb

As should be fairly evident, the numbers are fairly close, so it is absurd to claim the Forester with better power to weight ratios has "poor" numbers while the RAV4 has "good" ones.

Previously, he was wrong when he wrote, "However, only the high-end version gets 4 front airbags. " and he concludes his review with another stunner. "The automatic Forester is easier to sell on the used-car market than the manual-transmission version, given its longer list of amenities."

As far as I know, the only amenity available with an automatic on the '03 Forester line is leather.

kajko · January 2003

Coach, i noticed you reversed the units.

Forester X is the BEST out the bunch with only 18.72lbs per HP!!

Obviously the guy "reviewing" the RAV4 and the Forester is giving a lot of people wrong information. We should all chip in to buy him a calculator.
It's sad to see that there are "reviewers" out there that don't know how to do their job or can't be objective. It's bad enough sales people are not in tune with what they sell...

tidester · January 2003

FYI - the tags for bold are <b> and </b>.

tidester, host

xccoachlou · January 2003

Kajko,

Thanks, I should have double checked. I have it right on my spreadsheet.

Before all the blame goes on M. Heraud, I have to say it sounds like he was reviewing the 2002 Forester.

He claims in the Overview that the Forester comes in either the L or S trims. Yet that was just underneath where he talks about 2003 re-design.

Even though elsewhere on the web he is referred to as a noted Canadian auto reviewer, there is nothing in his review on a mainly US site that says it is applicable only to Canadian vehicles.
Heck, even the Subaru Canada site lists the same trims, X and XS, as we get.

I wonder what kind of report card we should give him?

cbmorton · January 2003

It's amazing how many whoppers you can find in car reviews that make you wonder whether the reviewer actually even sat in the vehicle, let alone drove it.

Re the Canadian Forester, I think the only difference in our line-up vs that of the US is that you CAN get the XS with leather and a five-speed up here.

p0926 · January 2003

Lou- Good finds! I used your RAV4 post as the basis of an Email to MSN's Feedback address to complaining about Heraud either not checking his facts or having a pro-Toyota bias.

Re Car Talks comment: "In one previous Subaru, we thought a dog had eaten multicolored dog biscuits, and then thrown up all over the interior." I think the fabric they were referring to was that of the 98-00 Forester S. I must confess that IMO they're description was fairly accurate!

-Frank P.

subkid · January 2003

I'm under impression that Canadian Forester X model comes equiped with heated mirrors. Is that the difference form US model?

ken_from_nj · January 2003

i don't have one on my 03 forester xs. i find if the window gets a weather buildup (water or snow) it is quickly removed with a twist of the wrist to engage the rear window wiper. thus no deflecter on my vehicle (plus i don't really like the way they look - just my personal pref.)
- ken

p0926 · January 2003

Well who'd have thought that MSN's customer service would be so responsive? Not only did they bother to read my Email but they even sent a personal (vs form letter) response!

-------------------------------------------------

Hello Frank,

Thank you for writing to MSN Autos regarding your feedback on Mr. Daniel Heraud's 2003 Toyota RAV4 and 2003 Subaru Forester auto reviews. We do apologize if your expectations were not met and if there were incorrect or misleading information presented on the review. We appreciate the time you took to send us your thoughts about the said review and we will forward it to MSN Autos Editorial team specifically to Mr. Heraud for further evaluation and research.

For future reference, instructions and other helpful information pertaining to MSN Autos go to the Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) located at http://autos.msn.com/help/FAQ.aspx

We hope you are enjoying MSN Autos and we do look forward in meeting all of your future service needs.

Thank you for using MSN Autos.

Sincerely,

Sheryl

MSN Autos Customer Support

xccoachlou · January 2003

Keep us posted, Frank. Maybe Daniel Heraud would like some recipes for crow?

- Lou

kate5000 · January 2003

Just brought my Forester 2001 S+ from 60K service. It's a very extensive service or so the dealership says. However, they did a good job on my Forester prior to that, and they do have a very good reputation in the area (Santa Cruz).

They replaced timing belt, spark plugs and did a bunch of other things. They charge $754+tax for this. During the service, they also found my brake pads worn out (10% left), small leak in water pump and in the radiator.

Radiator and water pump was replaced free of charge, under warranty.

Total for service+brakes+rental+tax came to about $1200. I paid with SubaruBucks coupons accumulated from my old MBNA and current CHASE Subaru cards. That was sweet: not to have to use "real" money. I also bought a ski rack with remaining SubaruBucks.

Forester drives pretty much the same (btw feels louder inside than my Baja loaner) as before. Brakes feel better now but still much mushier than Baja's. Steering somehow feels a bit lighter now. Baja's steering was light too but very precise.

The only bad thing is that I'm now totally out of SubaruBucks! Time for another shopping spree!

kens · January 2003

Ah, nothing like a good 60K tune up to brighten the day! Glad to hear everything went well including the proactive water pump swap. Did you have them change the t-belt while there were in there? It's probably a bit early for the t-belt (I'd do it at 90K) but it saves the labor to get into that area.

The steering might feel lighter due to new power steering fluid or tire rotation/air pressure. Did they touch any of those?

Ken

tpasub · January 2003

2000 Forester power switches for Cruise Control and Fog lights located lower left of dash board. These switches have two (2) light bulbs (Very Small), one each white and amber. Dealer would like to sell me the whole switch., but I know there are numbers for these bulbs, there is also a green one in the A/C switch. Numbers I've seen. 83426AA051, 72351FA120 but which is which. Thanks

sartie · January 2003

Hello to all!

I posted a while back, but perhaps wasn't clear about what I'm looking for. Can anyone recommend a dealer with a heck of a good price on Subaru Extended Warranties? I'm especially interested in the Subaru Gold. Since dealers can set their own resale prices on Subaru warranties, who's selling them cheapest?

Subaru Forester (up to 2005)

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