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I saw a preliminary report that showed the output of 270hp, and 268tq with fuel economy being 21/27. Also, Mazda said in their statement that the "engine is sourced directly from the CX-9". I also read that Mazda will be building it themselves. The Ohio engine plant is a Ford plant, not a Mazda plant.
The 4 cylinder models out sell the V6 by a factor of 5 to 1.
Many true sports car drivers don't want the increased weight of a V6, which adversely affects handling. Now with gasoline selling for nearly $4 per gallon, the 4 cylinder becomes even more attractive.
I am going back to a manual transmission for my next sedan. My current Subaru Legacy with the 4EAT auto trans is a dog. By contrast, the 5 speed Legacy I had before it, felt zippy and got 3 more MPG.
Eh, yeah, I do think they were making a mistake by not building one.
Even if it could not be manufactured and sold profitably, due to the very limited number of buyers?
The Mazda6 is sporty as were my Contours, but to me "sports sedan" overstates it. Sporty to me relates most to handling.
No, I am sure they wouldn't. But now that bland transport pod has been covered in the marketplace, how are you going to differentiate your offering from the others? If bland transportation pod will work, why would I buy a Mazda or VW?
As far as people buying midsizers because they're cheap, I read on the Honda Accord forum all the time where people are spending $27-28000 on new Accords. That isn't exactly cheap in my mind.
I certainly concur and wouldn't consider that cheap at all (and at ~20k for an Accord, I wouldn't consider it at all).
If Mazda was selling tons of the V6 "6" with stick I'm sure they would (or will as we aren't totally sure they won't) continue to offer it.
Ford has been limiting a lot of their offerings as they pair down their product line to save some economy of scale. I am not holding my breath for them to do anything that could be considered "fun" for some time yet. They still need to figure out DX/LX/EX and its okay to say if you want the auto-dim mirror you have to get a compass too.
As far as BMW offering a real sports sedan and what the enthusiust want, try their new BMW 1 which is now thier entry vehicle and which when totally optioned out can MSRP for about $50k. Just saw a review on it in the Chicago Tribune and was shocked at the price.
BMW was just an example, Chrysler was another example a few years ago. But your point about BMW being obnoxiously expensive for the 1-series (which is partially because they loaded it up in a way few would, and they dollar isn't doing so hot against the Euro right now...) is countered by the fact that people pay that, there is little haggling, and little money on the hood.
We love our Legacy wagon 5spd. I think with the boxer motor and the tuning, you have to drive it a bit in anger to get the thing going, but driven gently it gets great mileage.
Even if it could not be manufactured and sold profitably, due to the very limited number of buyers?
That is my point, they need to find profitability in low volume high mix vehicles. The economy of scale thing only helps so much. Look at the '07 Taurus (which you can still buy new for ~10k). Very high volume, very low mix (really cheap to make) and you don't make a cent on them because you dump them to fleet sales or are still trying to dispose of them 2 years later.
The E36 went away in 1998 with the introduction of the E46. If the Mazda 6 is a sports sedan, what does that make the M5? The Mazda is a sporty car along with the rest of them. The Contour and the E36 3 series in the same sentence. Yeah they have a lot in common, in the same way a GT-R and Pinto have a lot in common.
In my neck of the woods, I see a lot of interest in the manual trannys.
Tell that to Scion. Alas, I have found that youth then to prefer MP3 players, but I hope you are right.
Scion is Toyota's attempt to attract the young buyer, since the average age buyer of Toyota is 55. The TC is the only Scion that really sells.
I am not so sure about that, but my point was even with those youth oriented underpowered boxes, manual transmissions are relatively hard to come by.
I have no idea why the tC sells. For the bloated Carmy powered understeering obese vehicle that it is, I just can't help but think for the enthusiast there are better options available. I think the Focus cut into their sales, since both the Scions and the Focii are glorified MP3 players on wheels.
That's correct, but that doesn't mean it's built in Japan. It could be buile in Yemen for all we know.
I also read that Mazda will be building it themselves. The Ohio engine plant is a Ford plant, not a Mazda plant.
Link? Are you sure it didn't say developed by Mazda?
I'm not saying it won't be built in Japan. But it makes financial sense for them to build it here I would think. Either way, both the Japan and Ohio plants churn out high quality engines so I don't see it being an issue. Building an engine that is exclusive to the NA market for a car exclusive to the NA market and built in NA does seem like an issue. But maybe the do this all the time and I'm just mis-understanding the logisitcs of overseas shipping and all that goes with it. :shades:
If the demand is there can you tell me why Mazda ignores it. Are they that out of touch with their dealers?
The Tc attracted the high school/college crowd because it is a "sporty coupe", not because of driving dynamics, or enthusiast attraction. Maybe that is why you don't see many manuals. Trust me, Mazdas are desired in manuals. The RX-8, MX-5, Mazda3 and Mazda6 all have extremely high manual tranny sales figures.
Scion is Toyota's attempt to attract the youthful buyer, not the enthusiast. Also, Toyotas plan is to upgrade their Scion customers to Toyotas and then their Toyota customers into Lexus. Mazda's goal is to attract the enthusiast and youthful at heart, that is what the "zoom-zoom" philosophy is all about.
Why do you think Mazda is not going to offer a manual in the V6 then? This does not seem to compute!
Currently, they don't. Mazda offers plenty of manuals. Obviously, there is higher demand for autos, however, as a brand, Mazdas are more desired in manuals then most other brands, because of the sport oriented design.
Why the 09 Mazda6 V6 is not offered in a manual is beyond me. Until Mazda answers that question, all we can do is speculate.
Maybe that is why I have no interest in a Mazda, the "zoom-zoom" philosophy is a turn off. Nissans "shift" philosophy is the same turn off, and I've owned 3 in the past.
In addition, I just don't see either Mazda or Nissan being particular better at the task of being a generally all-around competent mid-size family type sedan than my favorite.
I can better relate to a "car that sells itself".
"Oh what a feeling!" (Uh, exactly what kind of feeling are you talking about?)
"See how much car your money will buy!" (Actually it was a very small car and the most expensive in its class at the time, so...)
"We are driven!" (What, driven to make profits?)
"Zoom zoom!" (In a minivan. Right.)
"Driving is believing!" (Actually this one turned out to be pretty accurate, but it's not clear just what it is you will be believing--a hidden invitation to cult worship perhaps?)
Also, quite a large portion of that revolution just happens to be happening in other countries...Look at the North American (includes Mexico and Canada) content on the vehicle's window sticker...
IMO "Driving is Believing" is much more an enticement, and invitation, to test-drive a car than "The Ultimate Driving Machine." But I'll bet that first slogan didn't get you into any Hyundai dealership to drive a Sonata, did it?
Yes. I have found that when I can relate to the advertising the product usually fits also. At least with products in this price range. When commericials annoy me I don't buy the product. Of course I don't have a choice with electric, water and sewer. :shades
Example: When, in the 1960's, VW humorously displayed every Beetle model year (almost indistinguishable) side-by-side from 1948 to 1966, they were showing the consumer that if you're willing to give up yearly styling fripperies, you can buy a car that ENGINEERS had updated, not STYLISTS & HUCKSTERS. :P
They will later in the year when both Lima plants are at full speed again. One and a half of the two plants were undergoing heavy re-tooling which is a big reason for the low capacity to produce the D35 until recently. Hence my speculation as to the Mazda 3.7L possibly being produced here.
I also just read the 2009 Lincoln MKS order guide and the Duratec37 for that car is rated at 270 HP and 265 ft-lbs of torque. Sound familiar? Might it make financial sense to build that motor for 2 cars rather than one low volume car?
So, you would not buy a Mazda because it is sporty? If that's your cup of tea, that's fine. "zoom-zoom" expresses how Mazda build cars. Ultimately, it is a combination of marketing and brand definition. "shift" by Nissan is more along the line of marketing only.
Not buying a car due to a manufacturers marketing theme is just silly. Not buying a car because you don't like it actually holds weight. If I said I would not buy a Honda because Kevin Spacy is the voice is all of there commercials, and I am not a fan of him, would be just dumb, right?
Bottom line, buy the car you like, and don't pass judgment on the car because of how it is marketed.
Well, all of Mazdas trannys come from Japan. Maybe they would send the v6 engine attached w/ the tranny to save shipping costs? In reality, we will have to wait and see.
I wouldn't buy a Mazda because the adverts don't appeal to me and I don't find the attributes of the car appealing either.
If I said I would not buy a Honda because Kevin Spacy is the voice is all of there commercials, and I am not a fan of him, would be just dumb, right?
If you are spending $25 large or so on a car, who am I to judge your rational. This is your hard earned money, not mine. If you asked my opinion I might give it to you, but judge you on it. Never!
Good point. That would make more sense. But the trannies they use aren't built by Mazda so bolting them together in Japan and shipping them here could end up costing even more because you would then be shipping one of the parts twice to get it here.
I guess we will have to wait and see. Like I said, I don't really care where the engine is built because both the Ohio and Japan Duratec plants are very good now. I'm more curious about what else FMC is going to drop the D37 into because I seriously doubt the Lima plant is going to produce a handful of them for the MKS only. They have been very good about keeping costs at bay lately and doing that would be a step backwards IMO. Making the D37 for 2 cars makes a load of sense however.
I will never judge, however, I am inclined to disagree, which is fair game. I think we can agree on that.
The styling is one of the best features of the car.
Could you elaborate on this "internet" thing please?
Sorry, couldn't resist. :shades:
Give me AWD and a V6 with a 5 or 6-speed MTX and I would consider trading my Mustang in for one.
In case anyone has been living in a black hole...
You really think the front end looks like an Accord? I don't see it. I do see a little Infiniti G in the front. Overall, still looks like a Mazda to me. The rear does scream Lexus a bit. I will agree there.
As for a Mazdaspeed version, don't count on it. I read from a press release from Mazda's main web site in Japan, and there are no plans for another Mazdaspeed6. With the 09 Mazda6 having the most powerful V6 in its class (270hp+ according to Mazda announced at the dealer meetings), a Mazdaspeed version will have to have well over 300hp to really make people buy one over a V6.
Yeah, I think I mentioned that before. Then someone pointed out that the Mazda press release did not state that the MTX would not be an option either. It really didn't even say that the manu-shift ATX was the ONLY tranny for the V6. Just that it would be paired with the V6.
If I were a betting man I'd say there is no MTX for 2009 with the V6 base on the press release and what others say. But I'm holding out hope. If they don't offer it then I'll just keep my Mustang and still be extremely happy with it.
You can go all the way back to later 80s and the Probes/MX6s - the V6s were all Ford 'Vulcan' engines while the (preferred) 4 bangers were Mazda. Not too many folks know that the Probe was originally intended to replace the Mustang or that the MX6 was a simple rebadge of the Probe which then in turn begat the 626 and the 6 - and the (unfortunately) close relationship that has existed there ever since.Those that believe that anything with more than 4 cylinders (or rotors) are 'Mazda' engines are deluding themselves IMO. This was true 20 years ago and it is still true today
Kind of ironic that Ford should take a good 6 platform then and 'stretch' it into a Fusion. Ford may indeed have 'saved' a financially struggling Mazda many years ago but now it appears the roles should be reversed.
And for those who like the current 6... a local dealer is offering $5000 off MSRP on any 6. And this is April. Wait 'til it's closeout time on the 2008 Mazda6, there'll be really big deals to be had!