2001 - 2006 Honda CR-Vs

theracoon · August 2004

My ears were burning

The Honda Service Manual for the 1st Gen CR-V says that under "normal" conditions the trans fluid should be changed every 90,000 miles; under "severe" conditions it's 30,000 miles. Brake Fluid change interval is 45,000 miles for both schedules.

I'd also suggest that you have the rear differential fluid changed at 30,000 mile intervals, and also have the valves checked and adjusted. There have been problems reported with both on the 1st Gens.

silver_bullet · August 2004

Everything your dealer listed is correct for a 2001. The A/C filter can be purchased from H&A for about $18, but changing it requires some patience as the glovebox and a few trim panels must be removed. It took me about 45 minutes start to finish. I did most of the 30K items myself, and let my dealer do the fluids - they just charged me for what they did. If you live in a hot climate and/or do lots of traffic crawling, I'd stick with the "severe" service schedule for the automatic and the rear diff.

mikefm58 · August 2004

13209 silver_bullet: Right on. I'm in Florida and follow the owner's manual for sever maint. I've got a '99 CRV LX with 97K miles and have changed my A/C filter twice. The first time, it took me about an hour total, second time half that. The filter cost me about $30 at the honda dealer. They want an hour labor to change it.

13208 the_racoon: In regards to the rear diff. fluid, I take it that's for the 4wd models? My manual says the same thing, but for the life of me, I can't find any plug.

I'm approaching the big maint. item, the timing belt. I plan to also have the dealer change the water pump, accessory belts, and adjust the valves. Anyone have an idea what that should cost me?

maxhonda99 · August 2004

Thanks everyone for all your help!!!!

The info. helps alot!

theracoon · August 2004

In regards to the rear diff. fluid, I take it that's for the 4wd models? My manual says the same thing, but for the life of me, I can't find any plug.

Yes, only the CR-Vs with RT4WD have a rear differential. It's a little larger than a football and sits between the rear wheels. It's connected to the front of the CR-V by a "propeller" drive shaft. There are two plug bolts on the left side (driver's side in the US) just in front of the left drive shaft. The bottom plug is the drain plug, the top is the fill plug. There are crush washers for each plug that Honda recommends you replace each time you remove the plugs.

drive62 · August 2004

Technically isn't the current Accord engine CR-V based rather than the other way around. Or really RS-X based. Or whichever was the first 2.4L. The way I remember it; RS-X, CR-V, Accord, Element.

kyfdx · August 2004

Is the 2.4l in the RSX?.. That is a 2.0, isn't it? But, you are right, the CR-V was first, before the Accord....

edunnett · August 2004

When/if you go to change your rear diff fluid, remove your fill plug first!!!! Imagine how dreadful it would be to find the fill plug impossible to remove AFTER you've removed the drain plug! YIKES! :-) -elissa

theracoon · August 2004

When/if you go to change your rear diff fluid, remove your fill plug first!!!! Imagine how dreadful it would be to find the fill plug impossible to remove AFTER you've removed the drain plug!

Excellent point! And the fluid may drain faster if both plugs have been removed.

drive62 · August 2004

Yeah you're right. I know the RS-X engine had something to do with the CR-V. I knew more about this two years ago.

mikefm58 · August 2004

<<When/if you go to change your rear diff fluid, remove your fill plug first!!!! Imagine how dreadful it would be to find the fill plug impossible to remove AFTER you've removed the drain plug! YIKES! :-) -elissa>>

That almost happened to me years ago when I decided vehicle maint. was a piece of cake after buying my first shop manual. It took the longest breaker bar with an extension to get the fill plug loose.

ateixeira · August 2004

Maybe you meant TSX instead of RSX. The TSX does share the 2.4l, though in a different state of tune.

Mike: I've heard of people that had to use a 2nd floor jack with a long-shaft 1/2" drive to break rear diffy plugs loose!

-juice

suvtime · August 2004

Surely by now Honda is very well aware that people are very dissatisfied with the stock tires that come on the CR-V. My question is why do they keep using these tires?

Do they have some kind of unbreakable agreement with Bridgestone that prevents them from changing to something else?

ateixeira · August 2004

There are two choices - some of them come with BFGoodrich tires.

-juice

tomk17 · August 2004

A timing belt change on a 98 Odyssey (2.3L engine) cost me $625 at the dealer last year to give you an idea Mike. That included the belts, water pump, coolant, gaskets, etc. That all should be done while they are "in there". I imagine the CRV is similar but I would call around to several dealers. Pricing varied by as much as $50 as I recall.

varmint · August 2004

Engines:

The first of the K series was the 2.0 in the RSX. This engine is actually quite a bit similar (not the same) to the 2.0 found in the S2000. They have it tuned with two forms of VTEC. One is good for 160 hp and the other other is rated at 200 hp.

The 160 hp version uses a valve technology that closes one of the intake valves during low rpms operation (below something like 2,200 rpms). This allows for decent low end torque, improved efficiency, and less vibration. In other engines, Honda has called this VTEC-E (E is for economy). It also adds VTC to control the "phase" of the intake valves, allowing the engine to adjust when the valves open in relation to the top dead center position of the piston.

The 200 hp version uses the VTEC that most people associate with Honda. It controls both lift and duration of the intake and exhaust valves. With the addition of VTC, this engine is quite feisty.

The CR-V's 2.4 is essentially a version of the 160 hp 2.0 in the base RSX. Honda enlarged the cylinders to boost the displacement to 2.4 liters. I *think* the cylinders are both wider and deeper. The head uses the same VTEC-E and VTC as the base RSX engine. Obviously, the computer controls and hardware had to be retuned for this application, but it's the same basic design.

Both the Element and Accord use a another variant on the CR-V's 2.4L block. It's the same VTEC, just tuned differently for a slightly different power curve.

The TSX takes the CR-V block and adds the VTEC head from the RSX Type S. It's the best of both worlds in terms of specific power output.

ateixeira · August 2004

Got all that? We're having a quiz tomorrow. ;-)

TSX still requires premium fuel, though, right?

-juice

varmint · August 2004

Yep. So does the RSX Type S.

wildbill · August 2004

I believe that this is the first automotive
engine that Honda has used a timing chain.

kizhe · August 2004

While the timing belt might be a bit less noisy then the chain, but the belt decreases average reliability (so to speak) of the car as a whole. If belt fails by some reason then Honda (destructive) engine is "kaput". I head so many scary stories of destroyed Honda engines near or little after the time to change belt. So, because of the belt (replacement cost about $600) the whole car should be trashed or engine replaced, which is far more expensive then that cost. So, long live the CHAIN!

varmint · August 2004

Honda uses "interference valves". The valves open up by pushing into the cylinder, rather than lifting out of the cylinder. When the belt breaks, the valves stop moving in concert with the pistons. That leaves the valve in the path of the piston (crunch).

Hence the big trouble with a broken belt. I'm having mine changed with the next service.

ateixeira · August 2004

There are some other trade-offs. Belts are cheaper to begin with and have less reciprocating mass.

Although mine is a non-interference engine, plus the service interval for Subaru's belt is a very long 105k miles.

Still, I'd prefer chains for the lower maintenance.

-juice

lorto · August 2004

Just so everyone is aware, interference engines are very common and not unique to Honda. Most car manufacturers have interference engines in their line-up. This is true regardless if they use a timing belt or timing chain. Because manufacturers are aware of the consequences of using a timing belt on an interference engine, they keep the service intervals very conservative. If you follow the service interval you shouldn’t have any problems. For those of you that have chain driven camshafts, don’t be lulled into a false sense of security. I once had a high mileage engine with a chain driven dual overhead cam design and one of the camshaft sprockets cracked and broke. The service interval for the chain had not been followed and yes, it was an interference engine. 5000 RPM to 0 RPM in a thousandth of a second. Boom!

Bruce

ateixeira · August 2004

Is there a service interval for the timing chain? Often it'll outlive the engine, or the rest of the car, won't it?

-juice

isellhondas · August 2004

First of all, it is extremely rare for a timing belt to break before the reccomended interval. Thy usually last MUCH longer than that.

There is a poster in one of the Odyssey boards here who hasn't changed the belt on his 300,000 mile Odyssey and has no intension to do so.

And, when they do break, engine damage ***can*** occur. Many times, nothing happens.

Timing chains stretch and cause trouble too along with tensioniers that go bad.

I guess, on balance, I would rather have a chain than a belt, I suppose but there are advantages to both.

lorto · August 2004

Yes, on the engine I had it was 85,000 miles. Unfortunately it let go at 115,000 miles. Even in the “old days” of Chevy and Ford V-8’s it was common for a timing chain or cam sprocket to fail around 90,000 miles. Manufacturers went to using nylon cam sprockets in the ‘70’s because they were lighter and quieter. The trade-off was that they didn’t last as long as steel and we started seeing problems with them as early as 75,000 miles.

kyfdx · August 2004

My first car.. a '70 Galaxie, also lost the timing chain at... 115K miles.

lorto · August 2004

I don’t think anyone’s overreacting. The important message here is to stick with the maintenance interval. If anything the Odyssey owner is asking for trouble. I wish him the best of luck. ;-) I changed the timing belt on my 1998 CR-V at 65,000 miles. The belt looked good but it was way too loose, almost to the point of jumping a cog on the sprocket. It wasn't a fun job but I'm glad it's done. After seeing this, I'll check the tensioner every 20,000 miles or so.

Bruce

ateixeira · August 2004

That Ody owner is nuts, imagine getting stranded with your family in the middle of nowhere.

Vans tend to be used for long distance trips so you might be hundres of miles from home, or even the nearest dealer.

Being stranded is a bigger problem, IMO.

-juice

lorto · August 2004

I found this list on the Gates Belts web site. It lists manufacturer, engine, and the recommended service interval.

http://www.gates.com/downloads/download_common.cfm?file=GatesTBR.- - pdf&folder=brochure

NOTE: For your convenience, interference engines have been footnoted with a star (*), in the engine column, in the application tables.

Bruce

isellhondas · August 2004

Juice,

I didn't go as far as calling him "nuts" but I and a couple of others tried to point out what could happen. On a dark, rainy night with his wife driving etc...he didn't care.

He said he had talked to the guys at his Honda dealer and they had told him they had NEVER seen one break on an Odyssey.

To each his own...

ateixeira · August 2004

Well, they are spot-on with my Subie's engine. Non-interference, 105k interval.

Good reference, thanks for the link.

-juice

ateixeira · August 2004

None break but most are likely changed on schedule. I say he's just been flat out lucky.

Although...usually belts show some sort of symptom, squeeling or slipping, before they fail. I just hope he notices it first.

Of course even with a timing chain, you have to change the other accessory belts. Isn't there one driving the water pump? So there's still some maintenance, it's just much easier to do those belts vs. the timing belt.

-juice

stever · August 2004

Gates is wrong (depending on who you ask) on my van's engine.

"If it's got 300K on it and is really shabby, I wouldn't do much to it aside from the basic safety requirements of good brakes, tires and a front-end check."

Mr_Shiftright "Maintenance & Repair Costs" Jul 19, 2004 12:56pm

Steve, Host

silver_bullet · August 2004

For those of you who've never seen one, a timing belt is not "smooth" like an accessory drive belt - they have "teeth" which engage with drive sprockets on the cam(s), crankshaft, waterpump, etc. They have to be precisely aligned in order for your engine to have proper cam timing, i.e., so the valves will open and close when they are supposed to. Timing belts may not break very often, but they do stretch, and frequently delaminate (lose one or more teeth) - then your cam timing slips, and the engine runs poorly or not at all, and pistons can touch valves. An oil leak in the vicinity of the timing belt is not uncommon, and oil and timing belts don't mix. Between oil leaks, heat, and normal stretching, you need to service the belt as recommended, or more often. Sorry, that Odyssey owner is a fool.

stever · August 2004

I don't think there's a need to call people names - he knows the risks and figures the cost of the replacement belt ($600 to $800 iirc) isn't worth it since the van isn't worth much anyway with that many miles on it.

And someone pointed out that he could be stranded just as easily by a flat tire as a busted belt.

Steve, Host

ateixeira · August 2004

The new Odyssey vans will have the Michelin PAX run-flat system.

So I'm not sure a flat would strand you.

)

-juice

stever · August 2004

lol, I didn't think that rumor had been confirmed!

Steve, Host

froozoo · August 2004

planning to buy 2004 CR-V. great all around mini-SUV. wanted EX model which has ABS but it also comes with rear "privacy glass" a.k.a. tinted windows. i hate the tinted windows - it's like being forced to where sunglasses if sitting in the back. why do they force this on EX purchases in order to also get ABS?? can this tint be removed after market?

froozoo · August 2004

sorry, didn't understand. which rumor?

stever · August 2004

The Michelin PAX run-flat system - some Sienna owners are dubious about their runflats - availability, replacement costs, etc. The Michelins supposedly require an even more difficult mounting process.

Runflats would get the spare off the CR-V tailgate though. And that would help the bumper test scores.

Steve, Host

ateixeira · August 2004

I think you can get an LX with ABS, can't you? That's not tinted.

-juice

theracoon · August 2004

can this tint be removed after market?

Only by replacing all of the windows with non-tinted pieces. The tint is built into the glass, not an applied coating or film like aftermarket tints.

theracoon · August 2004

I think you can get an LX with ABS, can't you?

Not in the US. The LX can be equipped with optional side airbags, but ABS is only on the EX model.

ateixeira · August 2004

I mixed up SAB and ABS!

)

Sorry.

-juice

kyfdx · August 2004

In general, I dislike tinted windows, but SUVs really need them, because of all the glass area.. My '98 non-tinted got about ten degrees warmer inside than my '02 tinted (and black!).

In my experience, you can see out of the "built-in" tint as well as the non-tinted.

regards,
kyfdx

kizhe · August 2004

Funny, I really like tinted windows in my EX, but I hate ABS brakes. In general (theoretically) ABS may be a good option, which MAY save lives. BTW, do we have REAL evidence of ABS saving lives or just speculations? I would rather do NOT have ABS - if I could only choose the options.

ateixeira · August 2004

Just remember to Stomp, Stay, and Steer.

ABS is the only way you can safely brake around a turn.

When you turn left, for instance, the right front wheel does a lot more braking then the left rear tire.

Also, ABS modulates the brakes independently, in the CR-V's case there are 3 channels, one for each front tire and one for both rears (together).

That means that even with Michael Schumacher behind the wheel, he would need 3 brake pedals to be able to match what ABS can do. He'd also need a few extra limbs.

So unless I sprout as many limbs as a spider, I'll happily accept ABS.

-juice

kizhe · August 2004

And I do not participate in races.

edunnett · August 2004

I have had two experiences where ABS has saved the life of someone in front of me. Where gut-reactions (mine anyway) in emergency situations are slamming on the brakes (heck, there's not always time to pump the brakes as you need to in a non-abs car), my non-abs cars have always lost control and gone off the road or spun less-than-gracefully into oncoming traffic. My Subaru, with ABS, stopped in control with a slight purposeful turn to the left to avoid the guy on the bike in the rain and the oncoming traffic. We were all relieved. I wouldn't buy another new car without it.

2001 - 2006 Honda CR-Vs

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