It may simply get to the point where the automakers may have plnats in multiple countries making the same car or components...if the plant in Brazil gets rowdy, shut it down and move to Singapore...if Singapore gets rowdy, then move the production to Mexico...when each plant loses jobs, they may think twice of doing it again in the future...if they pay $5/hour in Mexico, and suddenly they lose their jobs and go back to ZERO, they may get the idea that striking and violence just do not make it easy to get along with your employer...
Workers MUST stop thinking/believing they have the RIGHT to a job and a paycheck...they have neither...only by the grace of their employer do they receive a paycheck, and that can/will be taken away at a moment's notice...as it should be...
Many countries have labor unrest. To say the UAW and CAW are a peaceful bunch of workers is pretty funny. The only reason there is any peace with that bunch is because for decades they have been paid at least double their true value. I am speaking of the non skilled workforce that makes up the bulk of the UAW workers. It is the same in most Unions. The non skilled are paid much higher wages riding on the Skilled labors coat tails. I know our Teamster contract paid warehouse men nearly as much as the technicians on the same contract. It was always a point of contention. The Union felt the small numbers justified the higher than deserved pay. With the UAW it is just the opposite. Non skilled far out number the skilled in a factory. Up until recently the broom pushers rode on the coat tails making about triple their true value on the open market.
"Or ... you could work with the UAW and CAW and enjoy relative labor peace and productivity. That's stability you can take to the bank."...
I do find it hard to believe that you actually that about "labor peace" without adding about a hundred smiley faces...:):):)...labor peace my a**...
gagrice: "Up until recently the broom pushers rode on the coat tails making about triple their true value on the open market."...you be careful about insulting broom pushers...that's MY favorite group to pick on for unskilled labor...find your own group...
Ford has always had a closer relationship with its workers than other UAW plants. Its almost paternal in some respects. In the past that has reaped benefits. Unfortunately, just like a lot of yuppie parents, the kids have become spoiled brats. Ford needs to get some backbone. If plants like Kansas City heavily vote against company interest, they need to dry up new programs there down the road and get rid of it. China and some other Asian and Latin America countries tie their currency to the dollar and may be better locations for Ford in a global economy. Cars don't have to be made in the US to be sold here. There are also some domestic Ford plants that have supported the contract modifications and they should be rewarded down the line. Sometimes a swift kick in the [non-permissible content removed] is the only thing that makes people wake up.
"Fisker Automotive plans to welcome the United Auto Workers Union with open arms if its deal to acquire a former GM plant in Delaware goes through as planned."
They'll be sorry when they wake up from the liquor buzz...how anyone can welcome the most destructive force in the automotive world is simply beyond me...
Oh, I forgot...they have the most highly skilled broompushers...
"Well, there's an empty GM factory - and a bunch of idle workers with auto experience."...I appreciate your eternal optimism, esp when it comes to the UAW...
You hit that one right on the head. Just mention hybrid plug in to that bunch in DC and they will open the bank vault and give out some of that $25 billion that is just sitting there. Why not use local UAW workers that helped elect Barry. They can start with a new contract. Pay $14 per hour. Go with a 401K that is not going to cost them much. Let Barry cover the HC and they rake in millions without ever selling a car.
They are another Tesla motor car company. Why are we subsidizing the wealthy car buyers?
Fisker Automotive strives to be a serious environmental alternative to other premium performance luxury cars on the road today. Fisker Automotive will be the first company in the world to have this type of a car on the road - a beautiful fast car that makes environmental sense.
Initial production is anticipated to be 15,000 vehicles annually with pricing to start at $87,900.
Just about as much as the Volt and Tesla. It may provide a few jobs for the UAW for a couple years. Figure about $45k for 2000 UAW workers with benefits. That is $90 million per year in labor. The production does not start until 2012. Fisker is sitting on $millions in tax dollars without a single sale to date. At least Tesla had a car even though they are built in England so far. My question is how much does Fisker and associates get per year from our till? Will any UAW worker ever be hired. My guess is NO. We are going to pay to outsource the first 15,000 high end vehicles. If they do not sell, will they even try to build there cheapo $48k family sedan?
Fisker Automotive searched for a U.S. plant to assemble the Karma, but none were willing or able to build the 15,000 of these advanced vehicles per year Fisker required -- The low-volume Karma will therefore be assembled in Finland by Valmet Automotive, one of the most respected contract auto builders in the world -- The next generation Karma will be built entirely in the U.S
Unions served the purpose of providing general laborers with better pay, safer work environments, 8 hour days, and a 5 day work week during the latter part of the 19th century, and up until the 1930's. Corporations were corrupt and abusing their workers. They needed to be stopped and unions provided accountability. Unions established a lot of the labor laws that we Americans take for granted today. Countries like China and India, who now do the bulk of our manufacturing, don't enjoy the same rights that we enjoy in this country.
Unfortunately, companies like Wal~Mart have replaced our manufacturing job market. Workers can't organize because of the massive amount of manipulative power that corporations possess. We're actually reversing a lot of the progress that we made in the last century by not giving workers basic rights. Wonder what people are going to say when we go back to pre 1920s six - seven day work weeks, no benefits, no holidays, no sick time, etc.
Wal~Mart-type jobs can be done by just about anyone. But ask yourself, is it good that Wal~Mart is the largest private employer in the country? Do you really believe that everyone who gets a degree or learns a "skill" will be able to find a job where they will be able to put their skills to use? The problem is, not everyone will be able to find a job that pays for their basic needs, even if they retrain and obtain a skill.
Eventually, workers in China and India are going to demand basic rights that we enjoy as their countries become more advanced. Then, to where will all of those jobs be shipped? There are no easy answers to our labor issues.
I think of it more as a pendulum swinging back and forth. Where is it written that everyone should live the high life with a McMansion and a new Buick in the garage. We are spoiled by over paid jobs in this country. With little reality involved we have paid a UAW line worker more than a college degreed teacher in the same locale. When the line worker is replaced by someone in Mexico the screams are heard in Washington DC. Those jobs paying a high school drop out $100k + per year are history. This recession has brought US to a new awareness of just how easy it is to lose everything in the blink of an eye. All the stimulus and HC programs in the World are not going to replace production of something for profit. No profit, no taxes, no taxes, no government programs. The UAW has done good for the working man in the past. And they have been a major part of the demise of the American auto worker. I would say most of them shop at WalMart so they have little to complain about there.
Where's Rocky, The Libs are shooting real bullets at his main man Lou Dobbs?
"But ask yourself, is it good that Wal~Mart is the largest private employer in the country?"...what is wrong with it, lemko???...W-M grew because its founder had a vision, and they provide goods that people want and are willing to pay for...I would go so far as to state that, thanks to W-M, many people who may not be able to afford to shop at fancy mall stores, can now shop and buy things more frequently, like clothing or sporting goods or sewing supplies, etc.
What if W-M had stayed regional, like Coors used to be years ago (not sold east of the Mississippi River) and did not go national, so that 2/3 of the country never knew who Sam Walton was...would that really change anything???...what if KMart had 50% of the market and Sam had the other 50%, what would that change???
Kmart and Sears would be just as unskilled as W-M, but the market would be shared...but from the worker standpoint, so what???
You want to bring WalMart to its knees???...stop shopping there...
Should they have Union Worker protection???...for what, shelf stockers???...floor sweepers???...(yeah, I got this "thing" for floorsweepers)...thanks to unions of the 40s and 40s, when they were NEEDED, we now have worker protections built into the law, and we ARE better for it, no question in my mind...
But does everyone who works 10-25 hours weekly deserve benefits???...health insurance costs as much for a 2-hour weekly worker as a 40-hour weekly worker...why should a company incur that massive expense for a part-time worker???...why do people think that just because someone "shows up" for work that suddenly they should have fully paid health insurance???...now, an $8/hour shelf stocker may cost the company $15-18/hour, and a shelf stocker simply is not worth that...
We have become so spoiled with tax-free benefits that we forget that we are lucky that someone may actually hire us to do a job...
That welfare mentality is becoming more pervasive by the day..."you owe me..."...no, we owe you NOTHING except a day's pay for a day's work...and if you sweep the floor, you are lucky that we have this minimum wage, because floorsweeping is barely worth $5.00/hour...
".....Should they have Union Worker protection???...for what, shelf stockers???...floor sweepers???...(yeah, I got this "thing" for floorsweepers)...thanks to unions of the 40s and 40s, when they were NEEDED, we now have worker protections built into the law, and we ARE better for it, no question in my mind..."
But, like Gary said, it is a pendulum effect. right now, the pendulum is swinging away from the union. Soooo........what happens when these companies get the clout (if they don't already) to "convince" Congress to recind some of those laws for their benefit???
"......That welfare mentality is becoming more pervasive by the day..."you owe me..."...no, we owe you NOTHING except a day's pay for a day's work...and if you sweep the floor, you are lucky that we have this minimum wage, because floorsweeping is barely worth $5.00/hour.."
As I write this, the stock price of Wal-Mart is $50.40. Sears/Kmart is $70.66. If Warren Buffet bought 1 million shares of each, it would cost him $121,040,000.
Yet, at $5/hr, the floorsweeper who works 1 hour is entitled to $5 MORE than he is as a ROI.
Yet somehow, because of the sheer number ( $121+MILLION vs. $5 ) the mentality seems to be backwards on this. While the employee is entitled to ACTUAL CASH for a service provided, all an investor is "Entitled" to is due diligence on the part of the company he invests in.
apparently The Boeing Company is displaying that they still have sufficient stonage to make a gavel-pounding decision. To get away from the IAM and their prone-to-strike-the-Big Boys tendency, Boeing is moving the 787 Dreamliner production line to South Carolina. Although not directly related to the UAW's, this story is huge Union/Company news!
Boeing actions are probably related to the continously contentious relations with unions out there. They moved the HQ, next the plants. Ford should take a lesson from them if the union screws them over. SC is not a union supporter state and has access to ports and rail. I'm surprised Caterpillar didn't go there when they had all the UAW trouble a few years ago...lock the UAW out and move away!
You know, when I think about it, if the UAW workers don't support Ford, why should the consumer? I think their actions at Ford against unified Big 3 contract terms, when they usually push that the contracts need to be the same during their contract negotiations, should clearly indicate NO MORE TAX DOLLARS FOR UAW. I can no longer support $ supporting the UAW when they show this total disregard to the industry problems, but expect taxpayers should support them. Ford didn't take direct monies, but they did get some quick grants and the like from Uncle during all of this. I'm afraid the Ford UAW workers have become pigs at the trough.
I think that is what GM tried with Saturn and failed to get rid of the Bulldog UAW hanging onto their britches. Ford should move all production South of the border. Then when all UAW contracts are gone. Rebuild in a right to work state sometime down the road. Maybe when the tax structure and regulations become favorable for business again. I am looking at it from the standpoint of a stock holder.
"what happens when these companies get the clout (if they don't already) to "convince" Congress to recind some of those laws for their benefit???"
I doubt Congress would rescind any of the worker protection laws of the last 50 years...remember, Hussein Obama actually wants to use federal power to eliminate the concept of the "right to work" state, because he wants to force unions on every little and big employer...
When he tries this, it will possibly be the showdown of the century, as states, en masse, will simply not abide by the federal mandate, and tell the Supreme Court to stick it...the ultimate assertion of states rights, as it should be...
On a mass scale, I believe that employment in right to work states is not suffereing as much as unionized states, altho I do not remember where I read that...there is no question about this race...the feds are racing to make every state unionized, while the employers are either leaving the country or moving to non-union states where they can control labor costs and, fortunately CONTROL LABOR (i.e fire the deadwood in 2 minutes with no union grievance appeals)...
Once the unions like UAW are gone, this country has a chance to come back to normal, where the employer controls his/her business, not the employees...
Gagrice's idea for Ford is great...move to Mexico, destroy the UAW, and move back into a right to work state, offer $7/hour to floorsweepers (they are still only worth $5/hour, but min wage laws make them cost more but do not add value) and double that for people with skills...
No, cooter, no matter what, floorsweeping just ain't worth much...just because they live and breathe adds no value to a task that is easily performed by someone in a coma...the UAW proved that...:)
if the UAW workers don't support Ford, why should the consumer? I
Funny you mention that. We're going to be buying a new car in the near future. On the top of our list were the Fusion/Milan until I read the nonsense with the Unions.
I will not support a company whose unions are not looking out for the health of the company (note that I didn't say health of the owners). The workers are being short sighted. Ford (and economy in general) is not out the woods yet, and rejecting this deal will put it at a disadvantage compared to all its competitors (including GM and Chrysler/Fiat).
I think the Fusion is now made in Mexico. The UAW already ran them out of the USA. Read about the HUGE new plant in Brazil that Ford tried building in the USA until the UAW made it impossible with ignorant work rules. I think you are safe with the Fusion/Milan not being UAW built. Sad that we have to feel that way. However the UAW has brought this on themselves.
Catching up on the posts here, one word kept leaping into my head - parasites. So I did a little research, and this is what I found.
Taken from Wikipedia: "A parasitoid is an organism that spends a significant portion of its life history attached to or within a single host organism which it ultimately kills (and often consumes) in the process. Thus they are similar to typical parasites except in the certain fate of the host. In a typical parasitic relationship, the parasite and host live side by side without lethal damage to the host. Typically, the parasite takes enough nutrients to thrive without preventing the host from reproducing. In a parasitoid relationship, the host is killed, normally before it can produce offspring."
where: Parasitoid/parasite=UAW Host=domestic automaker (GM/Ford/Chrysler) Parasitic relationship=old automaker/UAW relationship (early years to 2007) Parasitoid relationship=new automaker/UAW relationship (2008+) Nutrients=money/benefits Reproduce=make a profit
Which gives us: "The UAW is an organism that spends a significant portion of its life history attached to a single automaker which it ultimately kills (and often consumes) in the process. Thus they are similar to the old UAW/automaker relationship except in the certain fate of the host. In old UAW/automaker relationship, the UAW and automaker live side by side without lethal damage to the host. Typically, the UAW takes enough money/benefits to thrive without preventing the host from making a profit. In the last couple of years, the host is killed (or nearly-bankrupcy), normally before it can making a profit."
I double-checked my work, and everything looks correct.
Can someone else review this before I turn in my extra credit?
If the UAW was willing to have a symbiotic relationship with the auto makers, all would be healthy at this point.
Will never happen. The greedy union leadership knows that the selfish UAW workers would stop paying dues if there weren't problems, so they play up anything that they can make into an issue. I'd suggest that we should start boycotting UAW products except too many innocent people would be harmed collaterally.
I must agree...the UAW is simply a parasitic cancer that must be killed, destroyed, nullified, and its roots must be demolished down to the last atomic particle, as they have ruined the Big 3 auto industry...we still HAVE an auto industry, as cars are built by Americans for Honda, Toyota, Nissan, BMW, Mercedes, Hyundai and probably a few others...stop worrying about the "collateral damage" as that will occur anyway as folks avoid GM & C cars, and also eventually Ford cars...just like chemo kills good cells with bad cells, in order to kill tha cancer of the UAW, then some decent workers will be hurt in the process, but then the organism may survive (no more UAW cancer) and the collateral might heal...
berri: " I'd suggest that we should start boycotting UAW products except too many innocent people would be harmed collaterally.'...see above...
When the UAW rah-rah group wakes up and realizes they killed the golden goose, they might feel like someone waking up after a 50 year drunken stupor...
They were needed in the 30s and 40s, maybe the 50s...but that was half a century ago, and the are now as useful as buggy whip makers...we made no effort to keep unneeded buggy whip makers and we should make no effort to keep a union that has been outdated for 50 years, and such a destructive force it has been...
Maybe if the 2010 elections bring a change, then Congress will (hopefully) allow GM & C to compete in the marketplace or die...I am amzed that people are simply afraid to let capitalism kill the weak...it is time for Reality to set in, and with Hussein Obama it will not...so now GM & C are 100% Jobs Bank companies, which is worse than before, when only a few thousand were in the Welfate Jobs Bank...now they all are...
"Another historic UAW "victory" as workers at the Sterling Heights axle plant vote down the concessions Ford needs to stay competetive.
Under the terms of the agreement, Sterling Axle was supposed to get new rear-wheel drive work that would have added about 100 jobs. Now, union sources fear that work will be given to Getrag Corp., a German supplier with a nonunion factory in North Carolina. Local union leaders also were told Ford is considering outsourcing other components made at the plant, where 80 percent of workers voted against ratification."
Granted, the unions were necessary in some job fields during the 1800's and early 1900's, but they are pricing themselves and many companies out of existence. Wal-Mart has nothing to do with this, except that they sell reasonable quality stuff at reasonable prices and offer reasonable customer service One can probably tell from this that I refuse to be one of the anti-Wal-Mart "snobs". Wally's has survived the onslaught of Internet rumors (that we have all been graced with) by proving they know how to do business.
Back to the unions; if the unions need massive government support to remain in business, then they should be out of business. The same goes for companies that claim to need massive government (or tax dollars again) support; they should also be forced to carry on the best they can, or go away. When GM and Chrysler became (even more) enslaved to the US government, they gave up their chances of selling cars to many Americans, mostly because many Americans are fed up with the government anyway.
Who wins because of this? India, China, Japan, and Korea are making and selling cars, and Americans are buying them. Cars from those countries are not any better than the Ford, GM, and Chrysler products being offered today and recently, but they are cheaper and seem to hold up well enough to get past the sales manager's desk.
Who suffers because of this? The car companies, their dealerships, and those who worked for them.
Pretty sad that all but 20% of that UAW local are brain dead. Then they would expect the Teamsters to honor the picket lines when they are hauling the machinery out of the plant. Some UAW workers will probably not "get it" until the factory is empty and their strike fund is depleted.
"......I doubt Congress would rescind any of the worker protection laws of the last 50 years...remember, Hussein Obama actually wants to use federal power to eliminate the concept of the "right to work" state, because he wants to force unions on every little and big employer..."
That's now. What about 5 years from now? Or 10?? We can't predict what the Administration will look like, or Congress.
".....When he tries this, it will possibly be the showdown of the century, as states, en masse, will simply not abide by the federal mandate, and tell the Supreme Court to stick it...the ultimate assertion of states rights, as it should be... "
Well, I suppose it should be no surprise that I'm not all that fond of "states rights". Labor aside, the country is a lot different from 200 years ago. I think that the states sometimes forget that we are supposed to be "United" for the common good of the country.
I doubt you will feel that way when some wonk in CA pushes a law that impacts your state adversely. Why would you think that we are United for the common good? That removes all chance of being free individuals. Sadly CARB the CA equivalent of the EPA dictates what they want for the whole Nation. Those in the Northern tier states may freeze to death when CA mandates that all power will be solar. It is already happening here in CA. My electric rates are now 34 cents a KWH because of the fines levied on companies that do not meet the alternative energy mandates set by the State. When they say how goes California so goes the country, you may not like it.
I don't see how destroying states rights would be good for the UAW. If a Right to Work Congress decides to make the whole country Right to work the Unions including the UAW will be impacted in a negative fashion. I am strongly opposed to more central government. We have too much currently for my liking.
"The United Auto Workers union has no plans to seek a new vote if workers reject a tentative agreement with Ford Motor Co (F.N), or to resume talks with the automaker, UAW President Ron Gettelfinger said on Friday.
The tightening of tensions over the labor contract in the United States came as leaders of the Canadian Auto Workers union announced a tentative pact with Ford that gives workers production commitments in exchange for concessions.
The CAW agreement, which is up for ratification this weekend, would freeze wages for some 7,000 Canadian workers into September 2012 in exchange for protecting some factory jobs in Canada."
I see every rejection by the UAW against Ford as a big plus for the automaker. If I was CEO it would be easier to pull the plug on a factory filled with ungrateful UAW workers. From the tone that Gettlefinger has set, He does not want to waste anymore UAW funds on negotiations for a bunch of members that still think it is 1997. They don't ratify the company can do what they like. Ford has negotiated in good faith, UAW leadership accepts the contract and the members say No. Gettlefinger is saying you people are on your own now. If they walk out Ford starts hiring replacements or shuts down the factory and moves to a warmer climate.
I see every rejection by the UAW against Ford as a big plus for the automaker. If I was CEO it would be easier to pull the plug on a factory filled with ungrateful UAW workers.
Mulally is no dummy. The difference between F and GM/C is that F still has the family name on it. Mulally and the Ford family will save the company at all costs. I suspect the UAW days at F in the US are on a quick decline at this point. Even the CAW was apparently smarter than the UAW to at least give some concessions and save some jobs.
I'm thinking since the Kansas City facility started this when they hugely voted down the contract "parity", down the road they will not see new product in their plant as it gets starved out of business. Kind of ironic since I believe both GM and Chrysler shut plants in St. Louis.
It will be interesting in 2011 when the UAW reverts to its normal demand for contract parity. The spoiled kids at Ford need to be taught a lesson by their parents in management. Besides, I believe the highest rated product Ford has is the Fusion built in Mexico.
Mulally and Ford need to take a lesson from old time baseball manager Leo Durocher and "know when its time to back up the truck"!
From the article, " "I don't think people here really understood that the work we had been promised was contingent on ratification," said Sterling Axle UAW member Brian Pannebecker"...
Does this not PROVE their genetic stupidity/ignorance/suicide tendencies beyond ANY reasonable doubt???
Can anyone here in the UAW rah-rah group try and tell me how the UAW is helping workers in ANY way???...would anybody here not pick up and move TOTAL Ford production somewhere else???
Can any UAW rah-rah tell me they they would tell Ford to sign any contract the union wants???
The rest of the nation must be laughing as they watch ignorant, overpaid, totally unskilled workers, with no productive talent whatsoever, vote themselves out of jobs, and the rank and file probably think they are standing up for progress and worker's rights...yeah, the right to screw yourself out of the best job your unskilled a** ever had...
This UAW used to be a serious problem, now they are simply laughingstock caricatures of working people...
Now I know why some of the UAW rah-rah crowd has deserted this topic, because they knew this was coming, and no person with an IQ over 60 would have any self-respect left trying to defend their unskilled, ignorant brethren...
But I am happy about this, because now we can hope that the UAW makes itself look so ridiculous that average America will realize just how stupid rank and file UAW people are...self respect, my a**...
I do believe in giving credit where due. The 20% are probably high school graduates that have some idea of just how lucky they were to have a high paying job without college. Maybe they can lead the charge to de-certify the UAW like they workers did at Conn instrument company. I honestly feel bad for the ones that voted common sense. The problem is too many years of brainwashing by the old timers in the UAW. They were powerful and would bring Ford to their knees. I would bet the UAW leaders do not give them strike authority which means no strike pay and NO unemployment if they walk off the job.
I think. What a zoo...and the Scorpions rock band from Germany wrote a song about 42nd St. in NYC called The Zoo. Boeing is a zoo-I have strong feelings that if I had spent 20 years at Ford or GM instead of Boeing I would feel that they were Zoo's, too.
Hey, someone check me on that production line for the 787 moving to South Carolina. That is truth, but it seems to me I read something about a 2nd production line going there. At any rate, the zany pseudo-threats of the IAM monkees apparently backfired on them. Look out, I kid you not, hate to spread hyper-hysteria but now that this has happened the Union in them will force them to leave monkey wrenches in tight spaces, tight spaces with just enough wiggle room in them to drive future mechanics and passengers nuts. :sick:
Working in the healthcare field does have it's own zaniness, I am learning these things. But Ford is going to work to save themselves, and the UAW's will not be able to stop them.
I suspect the UAW days at F in the US are on a quick decline at this point. Even the CAW was apparently smarter than the UAW to at least give some concessions and save some jobs.
This is rejection of the Ford contract by UAW rank and file is shocking. I give credit to the UAW leaders for keeping US manufacturing competitive, and keep the work here in the states. Almost appears UAW members are not reading the newspaper...or are very, very selfish. I am a salary worker at a [predominantly union wage group] Fortune 100 company and I will get no pay raise next year, and the pressure is intense to do more with less.
In one article I read: "Union dissidents say Ford already is doing better than GM and Chrysler and does not warrant the same treatment." YET Ford has not turned a profit since 2005 (lost more than $14.6 billion in 2008)...wow...so is the motive to get all you can prior to bankruptcy then give concessions when restructuring and shutting down plants and losing tons of jobs?
What will the UAW say when the promised work at the Ford Sterling Heights axle factory goes to the non-union Getrag factory in North Carolina? I'm sure they'll say it's not their fault.
UAW Rank and File Members--You are making your bed, are you prepared to sleep in it?
The CAW was smart to split with the UAW years ago. They still have a fighting chance at survival. They also have some of the best production ratings in the auto industry. Something the UAW always likes to point out, like they were somehow brothers with the CAW workers. It looks from the reports that GM Oshawa is the benchmark for auto factories. With Ford in Mexico right on their tail. That leaves the UAW factories below average for production. Production and QC should be the basis for wages. Not thug power that has been the norm.
I have a hard time believe if someone wanted a car because they liked it that they would not purchase it because of where or by whom it was built.
No so surprising. After all, since Rocky would not buy a car that *wasn't* UAW made, why not the opposite? A lot of people don't believe failed companies should be bailed out. They also don't want to support a bunch of overpaid and spoiled workers when more "average" Americans are having such a tough time.
They also don't want to support a bunch of overpaid and spoiled workers when more "average" Americans are having such a tough time.
Exactly. The same old Detroit story REALLY sticks in the craw in today's economy.
Sure there were concessions made but as I keep stating, the failed business plan that forced bankruptcy and taxpayer bailouts can not continue....even in stealth mode under new management. Even Ford can't shake the 'ole UAW system. Perhaps the UAW should buy out the Ford family and get it over with.
UAW built = NO SALE in my world. :shades: Regards, OW
"As for union labor- I’m not anti-union by any means but my time at Ford left me with the impression that the UAW is comprised largely of honest, hardworking folks whose biggest enemy are the people within their ranks who abuse their benefits."
Comments
Workers MUST stop thinking/believing they have the RIGHT to a job and a paycheck...they have neither...only by the grace of their employer do they receive a paycheck, and that can/will be taken away at a moment's notice...as it should be...
I misspoke about Honda - meant to say they have threatened to shut the factory down and leave India entirely.
I do find it hard to believe that you actually that about "labor peace" without adding about a hundred smiley faces...:):):)...labor peace my a**...
gagrice: "Up until recently the broom pushers rode on the coat tails making about triple their true value on the open market."...you be careful about insulting broom pushers...that's MY favorite group to pick on for unskilled labor...find your own group...
Fisker Plug-In Plant Will Be Union, UAW 'Essential' Says Company (Green Car Advisor)
Oh, I forgot...they have the most highly skilled broompushers...
Plus they got the feds to buy most of the factory for them, and you know who helped vote the current "ins" in.
They are another Tesla motor car company. Why are we subsidizing the wealthy car buyers?
Fisker Automotive strives to be a serious environmental alternative to other premium performance luxury cars on the road today. Fisker Automotive will be the first company in the world to have this type of a car on the road - a beautiful fast car that makes environmental sense.
Initial production is anticipated to be 15,000 vehicles annually with pricing to start at $87,900.
http://karma.fiskerautomotive.com/
Boy, that will sure help out the middle class!
Fisker Automotive searched for a U.S. plant to assemble the Karma, but none were willing or able to build the 15,000 of these advanced vehicles per year Fisker required -- The low-volume Karma will therefore be assembled in Finland by Valmet Automotive, one of the most respected contract auto builders in the world -- The next generation Karma will be built entirely in the U.S
Unfortunately, companies like Wal~Mart have replaced our manufacturing job market. Workers can't organize because of the massive amount of manipulative power that corporations possess. We're actually reversing a lot of the progress that we made in the last century by not giving workers basic rights. Wonder what people are going to say when we go back to pre 1920s six - seven day work weeks, no benefits, no holidays, no sick time, etc.
Wal~Mart-type jobs can be done by just about anyone. But ask yourself, is it good that Wal~Mart is the largest private employer in the country? Do you really believe that everyone who gets a degree or learns a "skill" will be able to find a job where they will be able to put their skills to use? The problem is, not everyone will be able to find a job that pays for their basic needs, even if they retrain and obtain a skill.
Eventually, workers in China and India are going to demand basic rights that we enjoy as their countries become more advanced. Then, to where will all of those jobs be shipped? There are no easy answers to our labor issues.
Where's Rocky, The Libs are shooting real bullets at his main man Lou Dobbs?
Lou Dobbs home hit by drive by shooters
What if W-M had stayed regional, like Coors used to be years ago (not sold east of the Mississippi River) and did not go national, so that 2/3 of the country never knew who Sam Walton was...would that really change anything???...what if KMart had 50% of the market and Sam had the other 50%, what would that change???
Kmart and Sears would be just as unskilled as W-M, but the market would be shared...but from the worker standpoint, so what???
You want to bring WalMart to its knees???...stop shopping there...
Should they have Union Worker protection???...for what, shelf stockers???...floor sweepers???...(yeah, I got this "thing" for floorsweepers)...thanks to unions of the 40s and 40s, when they were NEEDED, we now have worker protections built into the law, and we ARE better for it, no question in my mind...
But does everyone who works 10-25 hours weekly deserve benefits???...health insurance costs as much for a 2-hour weekly worker as a 40-hour weekly worker...why should a company incur that massive expense for a part-time worker???...why do people think that just because someone "shows up" for work that suddenly they should have fully paid health insurance???...now, an $8/hour shelf stocker may cost the company $15-18/hour, and a shelf stocker simply is not worth that...
We have become so spoiled with tax-free benefits that we forget that we are lucky that someone may actually hire us to do a job...
That welfare mentality is becoming more pervasive by the day..."you owe me..."...no, we owe you NOTHING except a day's pay for a day's work...and if you sweep the floor, you are lucky that we have this minimum wage, because floorsweeping is barely worth $5.00/hour...
But, like Gary said, it is a pendulum effect. right now, the pendulum is swinging away from the union. Soooo........what happens when these companies get the clout (if they don't already) to "convince" Congress to recind some of those laws for their benefit???
"......That welfare mentality is becoming more pervasive by the day..."you owe me..."...no, we owe you NOTHING except a day's pay for a day's work...and if you sweep the floor, you are lucky that we have this minimum wage, because floorsweeping is barely worth $5.00/hour.."
As I write this, the stock price of Wal-Mart is $50.40. Sears/Kmart is $70.66. If Warren Buffet bought 1 million shares of each, it would cost him $121,040,000.
Yet, at $5/hr, the floorsweeper who works 1 hour is entitled to $5 MORE than he is as a ROI.
Yet somehow, because of the sheer number ( $121+MILLION vs. $5 ) the mentality seems to be backwards on this. While the employee is entitled to ACTUAL CASH for a service provided, all an investor is "Entitled" to is due diligence on the part of the company he invests in.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
I doubt Congress would rescind any of the worker protection laws of the last 50 years...remember, Hussein Obama actually wants to use federal power to eliminate the concept of the "right to work" state, because he wants to force unions on every little and big employer...
When he tries this, it will possibly be the showdown of the century, as states, en masse, will simply not abide by the federal mandate, and tell the Supreme Court to stick it...the ultimate assertion of states rights, as it should be...
On a mass scale, I believe that employment in right to work states is not suffereing as much as unionized states, altho I do not remember where I read that...there is no question about this race...the feds are racing to make every state unionized, while the employers are either leaving the country or moving to non-union states where they can control labor costs and, fortunately CONTROL LABOR (i.e fire the deadwood in 2 minutes with no union grievance appeals)...
Once the unions like UAW are gone, this country has a chance to come back to normal, where the employer controls his/her business, not the employees...
Gagrice's idea for Ford is great...move to Mexico, destroy the UAW, and move back into a right to work state, offer $7/hour to floorsweepers (they are still only worth $5/hour, but min wage laws make them cost more but do not add value) and double that for people with skills...
No, cooter, no matter what, floorsweeping just ain't worth much...just because they live and breathe adds no value to a task that is easily performed by someone in a coma...the UAW proved that...:)
Funny you mention that. We're going to be buying a new car in the near future. On the top of our list were the Fusion/Milan until I read the nonsense with the Unions.
I will not support a company whose unions are not looking out for the health of the company (note that I didn't say health of the owners). The workers are being short sighted. Ford (and economy in general) is not out the woods yet, and rejecting this deal will put it at a disadvantage compared to all its competitors (including GM and Chrysler/Fiat).
Ok, getting off soapbox now.
Taken from Wikipedia:
"A parasitoid is an organism that spends a significant portion of its life history attached to or within a single host organism which it ultimately kills (and often consumes) in the process. Thus they are similar to typical parasites except in the certain fate of the host. In a typical parasitic relationship, the parasite and host live side by side without lethal damage to the host. Typically, the parasite takes enough nutrients to thrive without preventing the host from reproducing. In a parasitoid relationship, the host is killed, normally before it can produce offspring."
where:
Parasitoid/parasite=UAW
Host=domestic automaker (GM/Ford/Chrysler)
Parasitic relationship=old automaker/UAW relationship (early years to 2007)
Parasitoid relationship=new automaker/UAW relationship (2008+)
Nutrients=money/benefits
Reproduce=make a profit
Which gives us:
"The UAW is an organism that spends a significant portion of its life history attached to a single automaker which it ultimately kills (and often consumes) in the process. Thus they are similar to the old UAW/automaker relationship except in the certain fate of the host. In old UAW/automaker relationship, the UAW and automaker live side by side without lethal damage to the host. Typically, the UAW takes enough money/benefits to thrive without preventing the host from making a profit. In the last couple of years, the host is killed (or nearly-bankrupcy), normally before it can making a profit."
I double-checked my work, and everything looks correct.
Can someone else review this before I turn in my extra credit?
If the UAW was willing to have a symbiotic relationship with the auto makers, all would be healthy at this point.
Will never happen. The greedy union leadership knows that the selfish UAW workers would stop paying dues if there weren't problems, so they play up anything that they can make into an issue. I'd suggest that we should start boycotting UAW products except too many innocent people would be harmed collaterally.
berri: " I'd suggest that we should start boycotting UAW products except too many innocent people would be harmed collaterally.'...see above...
When the UAW rah-rah group wakes up and realizes they killed the golden goose, they might feel like someone waking up after a 50 year drunken stupor...
They were needed in the 30s and 40s, maybe the 50s...but that was half a century ago, and the are now as useful as buggy whip makers...we made no effort to keep unneeded buggy whip makers and we should make no effort to keep a union that has been outdated for 50 years, and such a destructive force it has been...
Maybe if the 2010 elections bring a change, then Congress will (hopefully) allow GM & C to compete in the marketplace or die...I am amzed that people are simply afraid to let capitalism kill the weak...it is time for Reality to set in, and with Hussein Obama it will not...so now GM & C are 100% Jobs Bank companies, which is worse than before, when only a few thousand were in the Welfate Jobs Bank...now they all are...
Under the terms of the agreement, Sterling Axle was supposed to get new rear-wheel drive work that would have added about 100 jobs. Now, union sources fear that work will be given to Getrag Corp., a German supplier with a nonunion factory in North Carolina. Local union leaders also were told Ford is considering outsourcing other components made at the plant, where 80 percent of workers voted against ratification."
Let The Celebration Begin (Alternate Route)
Back to the unions; if the unions need massive government support to remain in business, then they should be out of business. The same goes for companies that claim to need massive government (or tax dollars again) support; they should also be forced to carry on the best they can, or go away. When GM and Chrysler became (even more) enslaved to the US government, they gave up their chances of selling cars to many Americans, mostly because many Americans are fed up with the government anyway.
Who wins because of this? India, China, Japan, and Korea are making and selling cars, and Americans are buying them. Cars from those countries are not any better than the Ford, GM, and Chrysler products being offered today and recently, but they are cheaper and seem to hold up well enough to get past the sales manager's desk.
Who suffers because of this? The car companies, their dealerships, and those who worked for them.
That's now. What about 5 years from now? Or 10?? We can't predict what the Administration will look like, or Congress.
".....When he tries this, it will possibly be the showdown of the century, as states, en masse, will simply not abide by the federal mandate, and tell the Supreme Court to stick it...the ultimate assertion of states rights, as it should be... "
Well, I suppose it should be no surprise that I'm not all that fond of "states rights". Labor aside, the country is a lot different from 200 years ago. I think that the states sometimes forget that we are supposed to be "United" for the common good of the country.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72cHfOKoA1c&feature=player_embedded
I don't see how destroying states rights would be good for the UAW. If a Right to Work Congress decides to make the whole country Right to work the Unions including the UAW will be impacted in a negative fashion. I am strongly opposed to more central government. We have too much currently for my liking.
Well said. Let's hope they don't turn down the deal and shoot themselves in the foot.
The tightening of tensions over the labor contract in the United States came as leaders of the Canadian Auto Workers union announced a tentative pact with Ford that gives workers production commitments in exchange for concessions.
The CAW agreement, which is up for ratification this weekend, would freeze wages for some 7,000 Canadian workers into September 2012 in exchange for protecting some factory jobs in Canada."
UAW says no new Ford deal if contract fails (Reuters)
Mulally is no dummy. The difference between F and GM/C is that F still has the family name on it. Mulally and the Ford family will save the company at all costs. I suspect the UAW days at F in the US are on a quick decline at this point. Even the CAW was apparently smarter than the UAW to at least give some concessions and save some jobs.
It will be interesting in 2011 when the UAW reverts to its normal demand for contract parity. The spoiled kids at Ford need to be taught a lesson by their parents in management. Besides, I believe the highest rated product Ford has is the Fusion built in Mexico.
Mulally and Ford need to take a lesson from old time baseball manager Leo Durocher and "know when its time to back up the truck"!
Does this not PROVE their genetic stupidity/ignorance/suicide tendencies beyond ANY reasonable doubt???
Can anyone here in the UAW rah-rah group try and tell me how the UAW is helping workers in ANY way???...would anybody here not pick up and move TOTAL Ford production somewhere else???
Can any UAW rah-rah tell me they they would tell Ford to sign any contract the union wants???
The rest of the nation must be laughing as they watch ignorant, overpaid, totally unskilled workers, with no productive talent whatsoever, vote themselves out of jobs, and the rank and file probably think they are standing up for progress and worker's rights...yeah, the right to screw yourself out of the best job your unskilled a** ever had...
This UAW used to be a serious problem, now they are simply laughingstock caricatures of working people...
Now I know why some of the UAW rah-rah crowd has deserted this topic, because they knew this was coming, and no person with an IQ over 60 would have any self-respect left trying to defend their unskilled, ignorant brethren...
But I am happy about this, because now we can hope that the UAW makes itself look so ridiculous that average America will realize just how stupid rank and file UAW people are...self respect, my a**...
It's a bit like saying all lawyers are sharks, you know?
Hey, someone check me on that production line for the 787 moving to South Carolina. That is truth, but it seems to me I read something about a 2nd production line going there. At any rate, the zany pseudo-threats of the IAM monkees apparently backfired on them. Look out, I kid you not, hate to spread hyper-hysteria but now that this has happened the Union in them will force them to leave monkey wrenches in tight spaces, tight spaces with just enough wiggle room in them to drive future mechanics and passengers nuts. :sick:
Working in the healthcare field does have it's own zaniness, I am learning these things. But Ford is going to work to save themselves, and the UAW's will not be able to stop them.
I suspect the UAW days at F in the US are on a quick decline at this point. Even the CAW was apparently smarter than the UAW to at least give some concessions and save some jobs.
Amen, bra.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
In one article I read: "Union dissidents say Ford already is doing better than GM and Chrysler and does not warrant the same treatment." YET Ford has not turned a profit since 2005 (lost more than $14.6 billion in 2008)...wow...so is the motive to get all you can prior to bankruptcy then give concessions when restructuring and shutting down plants and losing tons of jobs?
What will the UAW say when the promised work at the Ford Sterling Heights axle factory goes to the non-union Getrag factory in North Carolina? I'm sure they'll say it's not their fault.
UAW Rank and File Members--You are making your bed, are you prepared to sleep in it?
If it was made by the UAW, I will not buy it.
No Union = Better Built at the end of the day.
Regards,
OW
I have a hard time believe if someone wanted a car because they liked it that they would not purchase it because of where or by whom it was built.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
No so surprising. After all, since Rocky would not buy a car that *wasn't* UAW made, why not the opposite? A lot of people don't believe failed companies should be bailed out. They also don't want to support a bunch of overpaid and spoiled workers when more "average" Americans are having such a tough time.
Exactly. The same old Detroit story REALLY sticks in the craw in today's economy.
Sure there were concessions made but as I keep stating, the failed business plan that forced bankruptcy and taxpayer bailouts can not continue....even in stealth mode under new management. Even Ford can't shake the 'ole UAW system. Perhaps the UAW should buy out the Ford family and get it over with.
UAW built = NO SALE in my world. :shades:
Regards,
OW
"As for union labor- I’m not anti-union by any means but my time at Ford left me with the impression that the UAW is comprised largely of honest, hardworking folks whose biggest enemy are the people within their ranks who abuse their benefits."
Life after the auto industry (Osunick.com)