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A roughly 3000 lb vehicle can't tow much more than, say, 2000 lbs or so, else the trailer would weigh as much as the vehicle pulling it. So a small upgrade would make sense, but big boat owners should look at the MDX.
The CR-V has sold well with the current formula, so Honda won't change that much. The Escape has eaten into that 35% figure, however.
Suzuki is pretty tiny in comparison. Not even a blip on the charts. Resale value on the Grand Viagras is pretty awful, too.
-juice
Drew
Host
Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
Scname - The XL7 is a neat idea, but really it's just a stretched GV. I haven't ridden in one, but most reviews have given me the impression that it suffers from the same quirks as the GV.
LadyK - The compact sedan market is a crowded place to do business, but that hasn't stopped Honda from charging high prices for the Civic. I suspect that the CR-V won't be too different. This is why I'm expecting the new model to be refined, rather than redesigned. Expect changes like LEV status, maybe rear disks brakes, added equipment, better NVH, crash safety, and other enhancements.
Honda is kind of odd about pricing. They charge quite a bit for their standard cars (CR-V, Civic, Accord,...), but they under-cut the competition in the luxury division (TL, CL, RL, and MDX).
It has some potential.
"Towing is not a factor in this class."
Bzzzt! Thanks for playing. Towing is important to potential SUV shoppers. If they had it, it would help sway ME in that direction BIG TIME!
Not as tall as 31X10.50R15 most 4X4 owners use as a starting point.
"... That's not going to be as nimble as CR-V owners would like."
Nimble? I thought we were talking SUV's here, not sports cars. If I want NIMBLE, I'll go with a Miata or 240Z.
"A roughly 3000 lb vehicle can't tow much more than, say, 2000 lbs or so, else the trailer would weigh as much as the vehicle pulling it. So a small upgrade would make sense, but big boat owners should look at the MDX."
I realize it is not going to tow a 24 foot boat or camper, but small ones are QUITE popular, you know, especially for small families (2 kids or less).
http://network54.com/Hide/Forum/6308
btw I've heard that a hybrid Honda SUV was coming down the line, a powerplant like the Toyota Prius would be economical [I've always felt the 22 mpg I get was low for a 4 cyl vehicle]... anyone heard such?
When did the topic change to power plants? I think we need more nukes.
:-)
Squatch - The reasons why the CR-V, RAV4, Tribape, and Forester are so popular are because they do not share the poor handling and ride of the truck-based utes. This is yet another reason why vehicles like the (Grand) Vitara, Tracker, and Sportage are selling so poorly. Most of the people buying these car-truck hybrids (I'll get into the name in a minute), are not looking to head off-road, tow a boat, or pull stumps out of their yard. So a smooth ride, good mpg, and sharp handling are more important than beefy looking tires. In fact, one of the most common complaints from GV owners is that the stock tires are too big (in this case they are too wide).
Mid-size and full-size SUV buyers do look for towing ability. However, the average buyer for the mini-ute class does not. There are exceptions like yourself, but there are not enough of you to make Honda sacrifice the other 99.9% who want a good handling vehicle.
The word "hybrid" was initially applied to describe hybrid SUVs (part car and part truck). It is also used to describe hybrid powerplants like the Prius and Insight.
Tallal - Honda is going to release a hybrid powered Civic within the next year. If it sells well, then a Hybrid CR-V will follow. Ford is going to beat Honda to the market with theirs in 2003. Here's an article on what the big three are up to. http://competitionpress.com/news/carnewstory.mv?story=na67369nb63771nc13069
oh, and on the powerplant thing, I put in a :-) for the humor impaired.
;-P
I will admit I was not impressed with the 01 Civic. I cancelled my EX order when I drove the car. I noticed the changes and decontenting. I bought a 99 Civic stick instead.
INKY
They are?
"Most of the people buying these car-truck hybrids (I'll get into the name in a minute), are not looking to head off-road, tow a boat, or pull stumps out of their yard."
I will give you the stump pulling. I would think most ARE heading off road, and would like to do some towing. I argue that if a smaller one was offered which did this, with Honda quality and style, people would buy it for sure. Many are so brainwashed that they need a huge vehicle to tow even if it is a small boat or trailer.
"So a smooth ride, good mpg, and sharp handling are more important than beefy looking tires. In fact, one of the most common complaints from GV owners is that the stock tires are too big (in this case they are too wide)."
I can't imagine that complaint. Who do they complain to? Where did you hear that? I want tires that ARE beefy, not just LOOK beefy. What happens when you hit a sharp rock in your street tires?
"Mid-size and full-size SUV buyers do look for towing ability. However, the average buyer for the mini-ute class does not. There are exceptions like yourself, but there are not enough of you to make Honda sacrifice the other 99.9% who want a good handling vehicle."
If only Sportage quality were nicer, and/or they had a diesel engine. The Liberty is nice, but too small a space in back. I think the Wrangler with a heavy duty, rugged trailer is looking better and better each day I am on these boards. Take out the back seat and put down some carpet remnants for the dog, and then the only complaint would be poor gas mileage.
The seats are all leather (not leather trimmed, and not leather seating surfaces only) and include things like map pockets on the back and armrest covers. I dunno if Mark will maintain this discount for long, but you can contact him through the web site. E-mail me if you have questions.
With regard to the GV's tires, I've read that comment over and over here at the Edmunds boards.
You make a good point about people buying a mid size SUV when they may only need a smaller one. But you can also apply that to the whole market. The facts are that only a tiny tiny percentage of SUV owners go off-road. Even less actually tow things. That's why the CR-V sells so well desite not being a pro in these categories.
http://www.geocities.com/RONS99CRV/Gadget.html
Look at this neat bit I dug up. If only they could do this with the Liberty platform...
http://scrambler.cj-8.com/
The Jeep®.....renowned for it's history. It has carried soldiers into war and brought them safely back. It has carried missionaries into the deepest jungles in the world. It has carried millions of civilians far down the road less traveled. So what do you get when you combine a heritage that rich with functionality of a present-day SUV?.....the Scrambler.
The Scrambler was a SUV before SUVs were cool. It had the go anywhere attitude of a Jeep with pickup truck usefulness. The many top configurations made it even more useful. Add a full hardtop and you have a modern day SUV. Add a full softop and you have an extended ragtop with space for the family and gear. Add a half hardtop and you have a pickup. Add a half softtop and you have a ragtop pickup. What other vehicle can compete with that?......none. It was produced from 1981-1986 with @27,000 units being rolled out. We can only assume that the Jeep "Scrambler" was a product of the marketing department whereas the Jeep engineers insisted on the CJ-8 denotation.
So if the Scrambler was so great, why did they only make @27,000? Well, quite simply, it was ahead of it's time. It came along as America was coming out of a gas crunch and the emphasis was on economy, not utility. Well, just like your bellbottoms, utility is now in style. With the new push towards utility and the desire to drive something that didn't come from today's cookie-cutter SUVs, the Scrambler has stormed back in popularity over the past few years. Naturally, the increased demand and already limited supply has driven the cost of the Scrambler up. So if you have one, you own a piece of automotive history. Where does that leave us? Why are you here? Both questions can be answered by saying that Scrambler owners are a dedicated bunch who love their vehicles and possess a desire to share our knowledge. We are here to help in that mission. If you are a Scrambler owner, you have found your campfire to sit around. This is your virtual garage with your fellow wrenchers/jeepers to share your knowledge and increase others. So grab a hold of the passenger grab bar and enjoy the ride.
How many CR-V drivers out there have put tires large than 205's on their CRVs? How large and any rubbing?
Just for fun, take a look at these.
http://www.ptcruiserusa.com/hondasuv/crvix/exteriormenu/superswamper/superswamper_markgreenwood.htm
http://www.ptcruiserusa.com/hondasuv/crvix/exteriormenu/hitch/andyreedtowboat1.jpg
http://www.ptcruiserusa.com/hondasuv/crvix/exteriormenu/wheels/tire_geolander.htm
Now, do you still think that Honda shouldn't address this market?
Ron
http://www.RONS99CR-V.com
Corynat - That's something that I can't answer for you. Everyone has different ideas of what is acceptable and what isn't. All I can say is that two owners (that I know of) felt that it wasn't worth it. I don't recall the details. I also know of a few others that have upgraded the tire size and find it okay.
Hey there Goonga-Ron! I just posted a link to Gadget's home page. Are you still running on the stock tires? I remember you talking about tires, but now I can't recall if you've actually made a change or if it was just something on your wish list.
Vmaturo - Honda doesn't need to. Companies like Kia and Hyundai can't sell their cars without one. Honda doesn't have that problem.
You have to remember that Honda doesn't sell cars to you and me. Honda sells cars to dealerships. A longer factory warrantee takes money out of the dealer's pockets. That is bad. Dealers will also find it harder to sell extended warrantees. Add to this the fact that the dealer has to service the cars under warrantee and make less of a profit on that end as well. It's bad business and car companies don't do it unless they have no other choice.
With that said, we can't really be sure. These are only rumors.
If you like the look of the SE model, you might consider waiting for the new model and have a bit of custom work done. I just had leather seats installed for less than the cost of the factory ones. I've also considered having my bumpers painted with the same pattern that is used on SE models. I like the look and, with the underside left unpainted, it's still functional. I've gotten one quote that was less than $600. I just spent that much on seats, so I can't run out and have the bumpers done now. She Who Cooks might have something to say about me spending that much money right now. :-)
http://just-auto.com/news_detail.asp?art=29472&dm=yes&c=1
C'mon! You mean to tell me the engine is that weak that it can't "overcome suction" from and open window? What do you think it is, a 747? I have never heard anything like that in my life.
The part I had never heard of was that it "has to be overcome" by an automobile engine. Our family alone had at least 3 or 4 station wagons since the early 60's and this was certainly not a consideration (they all had the rear window retract into the tailgate/door).
I want to add the Honda key less entry system, but I am not going to buy it from the dealer...$199..no way. I found other interned sites that sell it for $96 and it is the EM system. My question to you guys is... how hard is to install it? The dealer said it is already installed, I just need buy the remote and program the remote. The dealer said it takes about 5 minutes to program the whole thing. He said that the whole system works through the radio. Is this true? Is it that simple? I would hate to go into the electrical system .... thanks for your help
Mihai - The remote entry hardware is installed in the door. All you need to do is purchase the key fobs and program them.
I'm not sure if these instructions are for the remote entry or for different alarm hardware, but this should give you an idea of what would be involved.
http://www.ptcruiserusa.com/hondasuv/crvix/interiormenu/alarm/security_remoteprogram.htm
http://www.handa-accessories.com/crvelect.html
They list the Keyless Entry for only $66 (no tax, cheap shipping). You can download the instruction manual (complete w/images) from their website too.
I plan to buy the tweeter kit for my CRV and spash guards for my Accord. Way cheaper than the dealer.
P.S. I dont work for this site or have any other relation in them.
Squatch and LC. Did you read the write-up on trailering the boat. Andy Reed really did tow his 2125 lbs. Bayliner with his CR-V. Would I recommend doing this? No.
Suction? I thought that was what kept the car on the road.
You may be right about the airbags and color changes. What your dealer is telling you is consistent with everything that I've read or been told. The Honda Rep at our CR-V meet mentioned that the '02 model will probably have similar trim levels to the Civic. He mentioned airbags as an example (but still wouldn't promise anything).