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Pontiac used to build cars like that, with creases, fins, ribs, body cladding, extra line here and there, and everywhere. I think they called it "surface excitement", to which Car & Driver quipped, "If they build houses that exciting, it would depress property values for blocks".
Don't confuse different with better.
I still have to see the new TL up close and personal, but someone posted a link to a bunch of pix. You know, from some angles it looked pretty good... Not the beak of Acura, however, but in profile not bad.
I think the new TSX looks a lot better in person than in pix, I'm hoping TL too. We shall see when we actually see!
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
Have you seen the car in person?
I don't see how the car in person would be smaller (numbers don't lie), or less over-styled. It may look somewhat more attractive in person, but it won't eliminate my 2 main concerns.
XM NavWeather Pricing
Tischer has tons of 2008 TLs in stock, I'll bet they can be had for $7K off MSRP at least.
Also numbers do lie-because several times I have seen stats on interior dimensions of a car and when you actually sit in the car its a different story.
If the car had killer looks, maybe, just maybe it would sway me to overlook the size. But the TL does not have killer looks. Modern, futuristic, key-edge, keen-edge, yada, yada, whatever term you want to use. It may look different, but it ain't no classic styling job. If anything, it looks bigger than the numbers suggest. It has a heavy, bulbous look to it. Much like the wayward Maxima. Badge snobbery aside, the Hyundai Genesis, a sedan similar in size to the TL, blows it away in terms of styling.
I thought the new TSX was so-so under the dealer gave me one as a loaner. In person IMO it looks really good, nice interior and a nice ride.
I also want to see the TL in person. Surprisingly, the dealer sent me a mailer today announcing the arrival of the car and offer top trade-in on my current car. I was surprised. Maybe Acura doesn't expect the new style to sell itself.
It looked like the back and front didnt belong together.
You sit low in the car even at the highest seat setting and there is no power steering wheel adjustment or cooled seats on a 40k car
With the Maxima being cheaper ,much more attractive and with both of the items missing on TL I think the Max is a better deal given they both might first year problems.
What's the different exhaust?
Also, how does the driving experience of the '09 differ from your friend's '07?
Dont even mention the TL in the same breathe as a Hyundai-Honda engineers and "that" company are in totally different leagues.I have never seen Hyundai introduced a car that is original in style, they are always knocking off designs from others.
Please let us not get into a Hyundai/Acura debate because if they were giving the Genesis away I wouldnt want one.
While talking about these cars, I must admit the new trademark Acura grille is starting to grow on me. I mean it makes sense for Acura to finally get their own unique grille. If you think about it most luxury cars have them. For instance, look at Mercedes, BMW, Audi, even most recently Infiniti. Once again I hat to mention Saturn of all brands, but my brother (who is not really even a car enthusiast) pointed out to me how similar the new Acura grilles look to current Saturn grilles. I immediately denied the observation, but looking closer there are striking similarities. The main thing that sets the Acura's apart is that it gives a floating appearance.
To wrap this post up, I have had the pleasure of driving a fully loaded Acura RDX for over a week while my TL was in the shop. I was very impressed by the new technology layout versus previous generation Acura's but I still missed the interaction one got with having the touch screen. Sometimes it got annoying having to use the dial/joystick for simple functions. But unlike BMW's ridiculous i-drive system, Acura still littered the dash with the most used HVAC controls. But the only thing that felt ergonomically wrong is that the big dial/joystick was not the volume knob for the 10 speaker stereo. That was given a tiny knob at the very bottom of the control panel just above the start of the center console. One can also find this same thing done on new Honda models with technology package. And the large dial/joystick looks at certain angles aesthetically odd. I think if Acura is going to keep this unique dial they should locate it where all the other makers put it, on the center console so it is always within reach.
You obviously have not been paying any attention to what the Koreans have been doing lately. I predict in another 5 years, Hyundai will surpass Honda in quality, value, styling and performance. Did you hear that? I said SURPASS ... meaning it'll be better. How does that grab you? I hope you didn't spill your coffee, or choke on your Big Mac. :P By the way, did I say surpass?!! Time to update your mindset to the 21st Century.
Absolutely. I don't think anyone will disagree. The question is did they have to make it ugly! And what was wrong with the previous grill? It was also uniquely identifiable as Acura's.
(BTW, I don't watch crap shows like American Idol, because as you said most of those idiots are delusional. I can't stand reality shows in general)
But I would suggest you broaden your automotive horizon a bit. You know, it wasn't that long ago that the American Big Three didn't think the Japanese were much of a threat.
As I said, the Koreans are coming, the Koreans are coming ..... hard and fast!
Interior: doesn't feel that much bigger, but the rear leg room is much improved (headroom cramped by the sloping roof line). The front feels tighter without being cramped (probably due to the big NAV screen and hood). Very ergonomics overall, the seats don't feel very soft but probably needs to be broken into. Somebody mentioned the driving position is low but I think it is better than BMW 3.
Stereo: The new ELS is very nice, wow. I'll have to test out the Audi and Infiniti systems but this is pretty nice for a 40k car. The dealer loaded some tunes onto the HDD and playback was very smooth.
NAV: very nice screen, the new interface knob is very easy to use. I prefer the location to BMW or Infiniti's, have not tested the Audi's. Voice command works well.
Drive: much quieter than 08 TL as advertised but not Lexus/mercedes-silent perhaps by design? Road and engine sounds are nicely muted so nothing is intrusive, conversations is easily heard, and the stereo can be left at low volumes.
Handling: I actually like the EPS for normal in town driving, there was a lot of traffic out so couldn't really push the car. Overall a very balanced chassis but again I did not push it hard. The feel is somewhere between the 08TL and 08TL-S to the best of my recollection.
Performance: I will need to go back on a weekend to push it harder on more open roads but acceleration feels just a tad under the 08TL-S (slightly detuned engine by numbers, extra weight and a heavier salesman compared to last time). I really think Acura's 1st two gears in the 5spd is too tall compared to the competition so acceleration feels a bit soft....I mean it is adequate but feels solidly in the mid 6's or higher for 0-60.
Based on this initial short test drive I'll definitely wait to see the SH-AWD with the slightly bigger engine and shorter final drive. I'm already sold on the interior stuff. It's missing the adaptive headlights and blindspot warning system compared to the Audi and Infiniti but the overall package may seal the deal for me......
I do like the rear, quite a bit. The "snout" front end? Not sure whether I like it or not. But, as you mentioned, it's neither better, nor worse than what you see on the Audi.
But, these do look a lot better in person than they do in pictures. Side profile is very sharp. From the side, the front end gives a "hunkered down" look.
They actually had the '08s side-by-side with the '09s. I got the impression that the '08s, while still handsome, look a bit dated by comparison.
I liked the interior much better on the '09 over the '08. Again, much better in person than in pictures. Seats are better on the '09, too.
I got to drive a "basque red pearl with taupe leather tech" version. Very, very sharp!
By my Butt-meter, it feels about as fast as a TL-S. Handles about the same. Seemed smoother all the way around....much easier to drive fast. Rides better.
Much better back seat, as you say.
It is quieter than the TL-S. As quiet as a Lexus? Nope. But it makes nice muted sounds under the hood.
Did a quick "pairing" to my I-Phone. Went off without a hitch. Made a couple of calls while I was test driving. Everyone said they could hear me fine using blue-tooth.
I couldn't discern any torque steer, which was surprising, given it's a nearly 300 HP (280 HP, IIRC) motor driving the front wheels. I pushed it pretty hard, too. Seemed to beg for more. I don't think the brakes were "brembos", but they sure felt like it.
My overall impression....very nice update to a very nice car. Is it as fast as a G or BMW 335i? No! But, it's close enough that only a stop watch could tell the difference. Does it handle as well as the BMW? No. But again, not far off the mark. It's certainly smoother than the G, though. I prefer the ride/handling trade-off of the '09 TL over either the BMW or G.
As always, the stereo is superb. Happened to have a Diana Krall DVD-A with me. Plugged it in and I'd say the '09 ELS trumps the '08 ELS by a good margin. Don't know if that's a result of a quieter cabin, or they made substantial improvements in the stereo itself.
Overall, it doesn't stand out in any one category, but does everything well.....better than the outgoing model.
The one I drove stickered at $39K and change. That's easily $10K less than a BMW 3 series similarly equipped. Plus, the NAV is worlds better in the TL than the one in the BMW.
With the current discounts on the G, I would imagine that's the closest competitor. But, back seat room in the TL is better. Interior is better than the G, too. It also drives smoother than the G.
Talked to one of the salesman at the event. He was quite honest. He said the first ones sold will go for MSRP. I think he took a deposit on two of them in the 90 minutes I was at the event. One deposit was for the one I test drove....by the person who drove it right after I did. I hope he didn't see my test drive because I did wring it out pretty good. That's just one of about 4 sales people who were there. I'd guess the others had the same experience.
I told him I wasn't in the market. He said give it a couple of months for the initial run to sell down. He said to visit after that if I were looking for less than MSRP. He also said he had one new '08 TL-S left that he'd sell for $32,500. Pretty big jump to nearly $40K for an '09.
But, if you let the "buzz" die down a little bit, and could score an '09 tech next year for $36K-$37K, I think Acura will have another "hit" on their hands.
The issue with the design is that Acura really took a huge risk with it! BIG! I really feel this is where the design trend is going to go, since they have used and beaten every design on car now. The New Audi's are looking quite techy. I actually really appreciate them going with the design and taking a chance. Most cars look better in person, the Accord certainly does. I feel the Accord could have used a little more Accord Coupe inspiration, and it would not have hurt anything. They want that car to be conservative. The Acura is not so conservative anymore. To each there own.
In pix, I've not been impressed by the new TL, I do look forward to the real thing. But, as I've never bought the same car, or brand, twice in a row in my life, I doubt I'll TL next. Depending on any number of factors, I'm leaning toward Europe. Although the upcoming G37 and IS Convertibles may throw a monkey wrench into that plan. STill, the Audi A5 is just so lovely (as is the Jag XK, another usual suspect)...
Rainy day ramblings...
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
The handling and steering control were great for the TL as well as the braking. The braking was head and shoulders above the others as far as the confidence that it gave me without shuddering, most noticeably on the Infinit.
The one thing I regret about the Ride and Drive (since I can't trash the ones at our dealership for kicks) is that I did not turn off the traction control on the TLs that we drove. The traction controls on the TL when you want performance really hampers the acceleration of its strong VTEC engine and gives you less response when you really want to get up and go. Turning it off makes it a lot more exciting than it already is.
I am way more confident in this vehicle in terms of positives and negatives than before I had the opportunity drive it.
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
Your occupational bias aside, how much performance gain should I expect from the SH-AWD? The fuel economy hit and the smaller trunk are going against it, but I do want that occassional AWD capability. Personally I am trying to hold out until Spring to be in the market....right now I am hoping the "beak" turn away enough buyers so I won't be paying MSRP by then.
I think the new TL is really positioned between the BMW 3 and 5, and also outsizes the G35/7. I also think the new Audi A4 with purported growth in interior/trunk size poses serious competition as well. Obviously no single car stands out as each has its strength and weakness and it all depends on each buyer's priority. For me being a new parent the increased interior room is important and performance can take a backseat (no pun intended) to a certain degree. The run-flats and low value of BMW is prohibitive for me. G35 will be close and the new Audi A4 warrants a look for me.
In the end, I think the 09TL will win out. My only fear is that I shell out for the 09TL only to have Acura come out with a 6spd auto by 2011......
I bought a 1998 Audi A4, a car that inspired real passion. It was a wonderful car, but not as reliable as a Honda. When the family got bigger I got rid of it and got a 2005 Acura TL.
My '05 TL has been very reliable. It's comfortable, it has a lot of great goodies, it gets great gas mileage. But I'd say that it's almost too big, it's suspension is floaty. The auto transmission has about a half second of hesitation when you need to punch it fast in an urgent situation. I've had loaner TSX's (previous model) and I LOVE the size and handling of the TSX.
So recently at a service I got a *brand new model* TSX loaner. It's bigger and IMHO it's lost some of its charm. I don't find it any more appealing than the previous model - it's gotten too big.
Now look at the new TL. I haven't driven it or even seen one, but my TL is already borderline boat status. The last thing I want is a bigger car.
Look at the new Accord. Vs. the previous model it is HUGE. And my 1992 Accord handled great, had great steering and suspension. My TL is more of a boat and floatier than the '92 Accord.
It just seems that Honda is moving more toward Toyota all the time - bigger, softer. It's got me looking more at Mazda instead. We have a Mazda 5, which is a micro minivan based upon the Mazda 3. The Mazda 5 is *shorter* than my TL, but even though it has much less power it handles better! That Mazda suspension is awesome!
So while I admire Honda I hope they quit straying so far from their roots.
Has anyone put together a lease yet on the new TL. The Acura website has offered this featured lease and I was looking for input on either it or any other leases out there. I am looking for a lease with the tech package specifically.
Thanks
2009 TL Featured Standard Lease
$419.00 per month for 36 months. $3,699.00 total due at signing.
FEATURED LEASE: Closed-end lease for 2009 TL with Automatic Transmission (Model UA8629JW) for $419.00 per month for 36 months with a $2,685.00 capitalized cost reduction available to customers who qualify for the AHFC Super Preferred credit tier. Other rates/tiers are available under this offer. $3,699.00 total due at lease signing (includes first month's payment, AHFC upfront acquisition fee, capitalized cost reduction, with no security deposit. Security deposit waived in featured lease example. Total net capitalized cost and base monthly payment does not include tax, license, title, registration, documentation fees, options, insurance and the like). Not all buyers may qualify.
Subject to limited availability. From 9/24/2008 through 10/8/2008, to approved lessees by American Honda Finance Corp. Closed end lease for 2009 TL with Automatic Transmission (Model UA8629JW), for well qualified lessees. Not all lessees will qualify. Higher lease rates apply for lessees with lower credit ratings. MSRP $35,715.00 (includes destination) less the suggested dealer contribution resulting in actual net capitalized cost $32,957.93. Dealer contribution may vary and could affect actual lease payment. Taxes, license, title fees, options and insurance extra. Total monthly payments $15,084.00. Option to purchase at lease end $23,571.90. Lessee responsible for maintenance, excessive wear/tear and 15 cents/mi. over 10,000 miles/year for vehicles with MSRP less than $30,000, but for vehicles with MSRP of $30,000 or more, mileage cost is 20 cents/mi. over 10,000 miles/year. See dealer for complete details.
But, I can probably say that about any car I've ever bought.
One thing's for certain, you won't mistake the new TL with anything else on the road....even other Honda/Acura products.
IMHO....as I stated before, the performance is in the ballpark of both the BMW 3 and the Infiniti G. TL trumps the BMW on features, space and price. There are some pretty crazy deals I've seen on the G. Based on the deals I've seen, there could be as much as a $4K-$5K swing in the Gs favor on price. Even more of a swing to the Gx's favor compared to the TL-SH- AWD version. That is, until they start discounting the TL (maybe next year....maybe sooner, depending on whether the new TL gets off to a slow or fast start in sales).
But, the TL trumps the G on interior room and interior style/quality of materials.
Strange....I didn't see one RL on the dealer's lot....NOT ONE! I can't imagine they're selling that well. I would imagine that the SH-AWD of the RL isn't going to be the big differentiator any more with the TL getting the same running gear when its SH-AWD version hits the showroom.
While, I'm not going to be in the market for awhile, if prices ever recover on my Tahoe (not likely), then the TL and G will be on my shopping list to replace it.
If the TL is being discounted by then, I'd probably lean towards it. If not, then the G may get the nod and I'll pocket the extra $5K.
laurasdada....I almost pulled the trigger on an A6 a few years ago. Lovely interiors. But, the room in the TL would almost match the A6. I've only seen the new A4s a couple of times. But, I agree the A5 is quite the looker....at least from the pictures I've seen. But, either perception or reality, I'm a little skittish about VW/Audi reliability. I've heard some owners say their Audis have been bulletproof. I've heard as many say that their ownership experience has been problematic. Then again, I hear the same thing from Benz owners, too.
The overall impression from my seat time in the new TL, is that Acura has taken it a step upmarket (kind of like what Honda's done with the Accord) from the previous version.
The last TL I had ('04) I think I paid around $33K for, with Nav. 5 years later, the new one is better in every way. But, is it $7K better? I'd have to spend more time in the car to determine that. I could probably swallow a $3K difference and feel good about it.
What's most tempting would be any of the '08 TL-Ss that are left I could pick up for $32.5K. Those are almost all gone, though.
At $34K-$35K, the '09 TL/tech would be a great buy. Whether they get to that level during their run remains to be seen. At $40K? Not so much....particularly since you can get a totally loaded Gx for much less than that.
aj.....I've never known Acura to have any great lease deals....at least not like BMW offers. My opinion is you lease a BMW. You BUY an Acura.