varmit, i like the idea, save for the ride height reduction....that would be counter-productive, don't you think? that sort of package should be standard on the new Si hatch (SiR in Canada) but I've seen the pix & stats....went with the plain British 3 dr on the outside (no ground effects or anything) and 195/15's for the wheel/tire combo ....sort of disappointing compared to the Type R hatch that's available in England/Japan (with 200 hp no less!)
I am personally not a fan of lowering an SUV, but since there are people who do, I figured I'd post the info here. The tires and rims make the pachage rather expensive, though.
Dealer is in Bartlesville, OK. I live in Tulsa. I found them in 1994 and was amazed. Local Honda dealers hate them especially when new models come out. Be warned this dealer sells its allocation fast on new body styles since other dealers sell at MSRP initially or close to the first year. I bought my first car from them over the phone with a $500 deposit. I was faxed a buyers order with price clearly shown. Only add is $49 doc fee which is reasonable. Deals generally take 15 minutes in and out if you have financing elsewhere. You could arrange financing anywhere for that matter. I was able to get a 99 Odyssey for $316 over invoice in 1998. They no longer sell the Odyssey for that price. I do not blame them. However, they are honest. I recommend ordering one soon (if you want one) before they come out and we end up with a 6 month wait. I can tell you I have sent about 25 people there in my best guess over the years and no one was ever disappointed. I recently had to cancel an order for a 2002 Odyssey due to my involvement with military but will order one as soon as my life gets back to normal. Just tell John Page that INKY sent you. As for out of state. In OK you do not pay tax or anything like that until you register. So you simply take Honda title and buyers paperwork to you DMV and pay your states taxes. You can check on that by calling your DMV. Hope this helps. INKY
Ouch, $4 grand for a handling package? You could build one yourself for half as much less. Let's see:
$800 manual adjustable ground control coil overs $240 front and rear adjustable no-sway bars $643 16"x7" rims with tires
Total $1683.
With the coilovers you can set your own ride height. Lift it for off road trips, then lower it for the track. The sways will keep her level at no expense in comfort. The tire package is what I paid to have mine delivered to my doorstep.
You could still get a short shift lever, urethane bushings for the sway bars and gearbox, and still only spend about half as much.
It's cool that OE manufacturers are getting into the customizing game, but pricing has to be more realistic.
$500 over invoice I asked? My honda dealer said doubtful and laughed. They should go for at least list if not more. This was Honda of Lisle in Chicagoland. Bummer. An earlier post said it was possible. Looks like internet deal time. Any thoughts?
I am just curious if anyone compared the two vehicles. I am curious about the AWD systems on both vehicles. If both vehicles are only meant for dirt roads then I think that the CRV is a better buy???
I contacted the Bartlesville dealer Inky spoke of due to reading them mentioned on a previous post. I'll share my initial impressions. I went back and forth with John Page over a week deciding on color and trim level of a 2002 CR-V. He was very patient, answered e-mails within in a day and usually just a few hours, and now I have a deposit on one of his allocation. I purchased a Toyota Tundra the same way from a California dealer and was amazed how easy and simple it was. This is definately the new way to buy a car. I would not wait too long if you really are interested in a soon to be delivered CR-V from this dealer. I lost out on one and John Page is working diligently on swapping one of his incoming for the color I wanted.
Kinda strange putting a deposit on a vehicle I haven't seen, driven or even know the price of but I feel comfortable with my decision. John Page seems like a very nice person and thorough. And yes, Inky, I did let John know you were the reason I called them. Good luck! Joe
mybenje: the CR-V has a part-time system that employs the rear wheels when the fronts slip. Most of the time it operates like FWD. It's simple and fuel efficient. Both axles are open and unmanaged, which means it cannot shift power from side-to-side.
The Highlander's system is more sophisticated. They employ a truly full-time AWD system, using a center viscous coupling. That means both axles get power all the time, so it doesn't really feel like FWD, and it may have a slight edge in terms of traction available.
The Highlander also offers an optional rear limited-slip differential (LSD) on the rear axle. So it can also shift power from side-to-side on the rear axle.
Beyond and instead of that LSD, Toyota offers stability control coupled with 4 wheel traction control. That effectively manages slip on both front and rear axle, really the ideal setup. It can also correct some understeer and oversteer situations.
The CR-V has a similar option in Japan, but Honda has chosen to not offer it here, which is a shame IMO. In practice, the CR-V offers an extra margin of traction for rain and light snow, which is probably fine for most people, but the Highlander's system is above and beyond.
Actually I emailed John Page too a few weeks back, and indeed it was $316 over invoice for a 2002 CR-V. Also talked to him over the phone. I did not put down a deposit because I could not figure out how to tell my wife I put down a deposit on a car I have not seen, have not driven, do not know the price, and would have to drive back from Oklahoma while she watched the kids. I at least want a price. Last email sounded like at least February for the color I wanted.
If anyone cares, Grand Honda in Elmhurst Illinois is now selling 2001 SE for $20400, which according to the ad includes destination. I figure that to be $873 below invoice. Similar pricing on other models. They better watch out - if it goes any lower I just might buy a 2001.
juice consistently provides interesting information. I did not know that stability control was an option on the CR-V in Japan. I agree that this should be offered here. On the other hand, it is expensive on the Highlander, because as far as I can tell you have to buy a Highlander with most all of the options in order to get stability control. The dealers have told me that it is almost impossible to find a bare bones model with stability control and side airbags.
It does seem to me that Honda would sell even more CR-Vs if it added additional safety options: side curtain airbags and stability control would be at the top of the list. I'll probably buy a new CR-V anyway, but I'd be willing to pay more for those two options.
Is VSC available on 2 WD 4 cylinders in the real world? Are the dealers misleading me by suggesting that it is mostly the $30,000+ models that have this option? I certainly haven't found any 2 WD 4s with VSC in a dealer's stock. Thanks.
Yep, the Highlander does have a great bag of tricks. However, with all those options, it costs anywhere from $8-14K more than a CR-V. In comparable trim levels, the only difference is the AWD. When these are compared at similar cost, you have the traction advantages of a fulltime system vs. the reliability and fuel efficiency of an on demand system.
Sandhurst - The JDM CR-V is competition for a vehicle that is based on the Lexus RX300 in Japan and the price shows it. To make VSC work with the CR-V, it also has four channel ABS instead of the 3 channel that we get here. The shower kit is a nice attachment as well. :-)
You can custom order one if you're willing to wait a couple of months.
Toyota has been doing AWD for a long time, in the Celica All-Trac, for example. Reliability should be quite good.
It certainly costs more, though.
You joke about the shower kit but one car at the Tokyo show actually had a shower head attachment! Honda even had two scooters in the front doors of its concept. Talk about wild stuff!
No joke. Honda sells a shower kit for the CR-V. They also offer an umbrella for the center of the picnic table. You can get the umbrella here in the states. In Canada there is a roof console with extra map lights, a sunglass holder, and compartment for a garage remote. There have also been packages that include a mountain bike, much like the Trek edition of the Jetta.
On the CR-V? Hilarious. I saw it on a concept car at Tokyo, didn't even realize it had made production. Haven't you always wanted a shower head sprouting from your car? :-)
BTW, an AWD Highlander 2.4l starts at $25,790, and really only lacks a couple of items the CR-V EX comes with (alloys, side bags). Add those and you hit $26,560.
The 2001 CR-V EX auto costs $22k, but the 2002 EX 2.4l is expected to cost $23-24k. That's certainly getting mighty close, and the Toy has a longer warranty and 0% financing right now that could make the payment similar.
Add VSC for $650 more, but Toyota shouldn't be penalized for offering that (or a V6) as an option while Honda doesn't.
I like the Highlander, much more so than the RAV4. It feels substantive, like the RX300 without the fluff (as it is).
The shower kit isn't integrated. Really, it's just like a "sun shower" that you might buy in most camping stores.
I'm fan of the Highlander, as well. It's just that getting one with AWD and either LSD or VSC costs quite a bit more (according to Edmunds, you can't get both LSD and VSC). And no, the Highlander shouldn't be penalized for offering a V-6. It just puts it into a different class. The '02 CR-V is almost a competitor with the 2.4 version, but not quite.
The Toyota website says that the 0% financing in on Corollas, 4Runners and Tundras, so you probably don't get the break on the Highlander.
I do think a lot of people will cross-shop the CR-V, stripped down Highlander, and the VUE. Toyota has mastered packaging options so that adding even a few things you want quickly kicks the price up to $30k. But if you can keep the options under control you can get one for $26 or $27.
Never seen one. Toyota love to pack'em with goodies. Special orders take months to come in and even then Toyota or the distributor may put the kibosh on it.
You may be right. The stripped down Highlanders certainly aren't on dealers lots. Others here have said that you can order one with the items you want, but I admit that I don't know how accommodating Toyota would be about that. The way Toyota packages options is very annoying.
Perhaps I should have said that people will cross-shop CR-V, VUE and Highlander until they find out that the Highlander they want will cost over $30k!
Thanks for the info! jheil, which state do you live in? You buy car/truck from CA and OK, do you fly there and drive home? And for inky, thanks for serving our country!!!
Glad you guys followed up. Putting the $500 down with no real relationship or knowledge of the dealer practises is intimidating and was a big step for me a few years back. I have simply heard no complaints about them. The airport shuttle thing is cool. Keep in mind all this in on the web site www.autoinvoice.com. Good luck with your orders and decisions. I am a new car fanatic so you may have guessed. I like getting the new ones a close to invoice. Keep us posted on how it all turns out for you. INKY
There is an Auto Show this weekend in my area. I went to it this afternoon hoping they would have a 2002 CRV showing. Nope. It'll be in November 12th...would I like them to call me? As I wandered through the show several vehicles caught me eye. A 112K Humvee..why would any person want one? Several Hyndai models looked real fine with prices that make you think twice. The Highlander does look nice at 34K. The RAV 4 just looks small. The Saturn Vue is interesting; however, what's with the 1980's truck looking headlights and nose? Triscapes too...nice space and looks...but are the recalls over? What a great way to "shop". All are in the same area for comparison without running all over. I'm still sold on the CR-V. Just wish I could have seen one without a salesman breathing down my neck.
I really doubt it. First of all NO dealers know what invoice actually is, much less the MSRP. So, HOW can you be quoted a price?
I DROVE the 2002 yesterday and can tell you that it is an incredible vehicle. Honda has change almost EVERYTHING with the CR-V. You might ewant to compare the changes to the Odyssey from 1998 to the new change of 1999.
Whats changed?
Engine, the 160 hp 162 ft lbs torque actually powers up and continues further than the 200 hp Escape, 210 Liberty...and FORGET the RAV-4. Yes we drove those too.
Suspension. They are now going to the 'modified' Macpherson strut, similar to the Civic change. I personally believe it has to do with the 5 star saftey rating.
Interior...very cool and user friendly. New shift knob placemnent, e brake placement, and the EX now comes standard with moon roof, 6 disc cd changer and more.
we were told yesterday that the 'rollout' ride and drive for the "Honda MDX" will be in March/April. So it looks like this will be a Spring car for 2002.
Fitting 9 would require a 3-person bench on all 3 rows.
I think Honda would rather have that walk-thru space between the two front buckets because the Honda MDX will most likely have a flat floor.
The Acura MDX itself already has a rather wide track, and yet it can only fit 7 (barely)...how is Honda going to fit an extra person in without making it super-wide?
If it is true that the Honda "MDX" will be going after the Tahoe market, I'm wondering if that would be a tactical mistake on Honda's part. If they want a maximum people mover, they've already got the Odyssey. IMHO, they would do better with a mid-sized V6 AWD SUV to replace the Passport. I think there are alot of folks who like the CR-V but just need/want something a little more upscaled, a little bigger, and with V6 power. diploid is correct in that I already find the Acura MDX's width somewhat intimidating. And if the Honda version is even bigger, whew...!
I can't wait to see this truck! I doubt they will make it any wider - the 7" probably refers to added length.
I think Honda is being smart with the sizing. The new CRV is pretty big by "mini" SUV standards, so it will be attractive to those looking for what has classically been considered a "mid-size" SUV. The new Explorer is pretty large for a "mid-size" SUV. So Honda is probably aiming a liitle in front of the curve with the Honda MDX's size - by the time it hits the market "mid-size" might have a new meaning.
Besides, Honda learned a valuable lesson with the Odyssey. The last generation was conservative in size and didn't sell well. The current Ody is (or was) the largest minivan on the market and enjoys a huge demand. Honda knows America thinks "bigger is better" when it comes to family vehicles. Those who want a more upscale vehicle than the CRV will probably embrace the Honda MDX, regardless of it's larger size.
If not, they can buy an Envoy or Trailblazer...let them eat cake!!
Hey guys I'm just going by what we were told by the Factory Product Development Mgr...if he says that they are going for 9 people, then I take him at his word. If he tells us (and there were about 100 of us) that it will be 9" longer in order to accomplish this...then again I am taking him at his word.
I guess that we will all find out this Spring wont we?
About pricing. Honda has always been pretty secretive regarding pricing. They dont put the Monroni labels on the side windows til they hit the port. So at this point NOBODY has MSRP or invoice info.
After speaking with some dealers on the 2002 I take it that we will be again in the supply/demand pricing situation.
On a slightly different topic, what do you hear from the Factory Product Development Manager on the '03 Accord? 240 Hp V6? 5-speed auto, as some rumours have it? Will it have an early intro date?Thanks.
Since we're talking new features, here are a couple for the CRV:
6 speed manual transmission
5 speed automatic transmission
Will we ever see those upgrades in the CRV.
Speaking of 6 speed transmissions, I remember the dark ages of the American automobile, the late '70s and early 80s. Someone wrote in when of the monthly magazines that the American manufactureres would start giving us 5 speeds when the Japanese began offering 6 speeds.
A higher 6th gear would be a mixed blessing. In one sentence people, would rave about the lower revs (quieter) and increased mpg. In the next, they'd complain about having to downshift at highway speeds.
A creeper gear in first would be an interesting option, but it's already pretty low.
Honda just added 90k CRV production at Swindon. The old Sayama supplies about 100k to US a year. I think supply will be plentiful. This is not like the Odyssey which is best in class with about 50k capacity a year. Or the Mazda Tribute with 50k a year produced.
jmurman42. What your take on the guy in Oklahoma selling his allotment of 2002 CRVs @ $316.00 over invoice? Dose it sounds to good to be true, so it isn't?
How many 2002 CRVs are planned to be shipped to USA? 100,000 ?
Honda sold last year (2001) 115,000 CR-V's. Their plans are for 125,000 to be built in 2002. My first allotments are for 45 cars through 90 days. That gives me ONLY 15 per month in the winter months. I am a dealer that has a pretty high allotment. Just to put things in perspective, and not to solicit any business (ok hosts? :-))
Based on all the changes and upgrades of the 2002...and supplies being what they are projected to be, I would say that they will be sold pretty close to MSRP. We (my dealership) does not have a policy of adding a ADM sticker, so the highest we can go is MSRP. There will be dealers that will go above that both in price/or other misc charge like doc fees and in options. You see it everytime a new car is brought into the fold. Honda is treating this just like a new car.
So, again it comes down to this. Is what you are buying a good value to you? If it isn't then dont buy it. I get this frequently from people that are looking for Odysseys. They will say "I never pay MSRP". Thats fine, everyone has their own buying motivation...but if you look at what is being sold by D/C and Ford and GM...an invoice deal still is VERY close to MSRP on an Odyssey. So, it does come down to perspective.
Now, don't get me wrong. I sell Civics and Accords ALL day long at flat invoice. So it doesn't matter one whit to me what they go for. If I have them on the lot (CR-V) and they don't move as fast as say the Odyssey, then they will be discounted.
The guy in OK that does this has his own franchise to run and people to answer to. This business has changed so much in the past few years that basing a business model on 316 over invoice is pretty short sighted.
Honda bases their manufacturing their car on projections of 'what they can sell'. This means that cars are sold to people like me and you...NO FLEET sales. You dont see any fleet specials on Honda's do you? Residual values are consistently in the mid-upper 50%'s right? AND...and this is the big AND...Honda customers are generally the most loyal there is. So, a Honda sale is to keep a customer in the Honda family for a long time.
If a dealer was smart, and sometimes we let pride get in our way with these things, when someone comes up and says that Joe Blow Honda in Bartles and James OK is selling this or that at 316 over invoice...if this car is a hot seller, I won't honor someone elses business model. Why should I?
Again, using Odysseys as an example. At our last ride and drive I spoke with the rep for a buying service at a another dealership close to us. He told me that they are "working on July deliveries" for orders on Odysseys for the dealership...the buying service is on a 15 month waiting list. So you can wait 1 year and 3 months for a 'deal' on a Odyssey or you can buy one at MSRP+900+doc fees...in July. Go figure!
I did try to email you Sat. but my mail is acting up. We do tend to frown on "I sell" and "my dealership does this". We're more tolerant over in the Any Questions for a Car Dealer? discussion because people expect dealers to "put things in perspective" over there. /fine line/
Thanks! Steve Host SUVs, Vans and Accessories Message Boards
Something that we should keep in mind is the average dollar spent on new cars over the life of a customer. The average "new car" buying American spends well over $200K on new cars. If a dealer can make that American a Honda-for-life customer, then they have some security. Typically, it's the product that makes such customers, but the dealership experience is also a big factor. Take a look at Saturn. They have a terrific little following despite having mostly average products. Price, on the other hand, is very flexible. A customer who comes and goes with the lowest price does not offer any security. They come and go with the sale events. So from my perspective, Honda's less than stellar track record for customer service is a bigger issue than MSRP pricing.
Thanks jmurman42 for the info. It boils down to who wants one bad enough to pay msrp. My local dealer in Chicago (Lisle) said he doubts any deals anytime soon. Personally I have been waiting 13 years to buy a new Honda. My 89 prelude has 185000 mi on it, and with our new baby, we need a state of the art vehicle. I also own a 2000 civic ex. So guess what, I will have to buy one. Albiet I will try for a good deal. I just hope that Honda will offer some good financing deals. Even though they are making money, unlike ford, and see no need for 0.0, they still should have the 3.9, 4.9 and 5.9%. for 2002.
Something that we should keep in mind is the average dollar spent on new cars over the life of a customer. The average "new car" buying American spends well over $200K on new cars.
I was curious - do you know whether that figure takes inflation into account? At today's typical prices, that $200K would get you as many as 10 cars. 30 years ago, 200K would have gotten you perhaps 30 or 40, better than 1 a year!
Comments
....sort of disappointing compared to the Type R hatch that's available in England/Japan (with 200 hp no less!)
I found them in 1994 and was amazed. Local Honda dealers hate them especially when new models come out. Be warned this dealer sells its allocation fast on new body styles since other dealers sell at MSRP initially or close to the first year. I bought my first car from them over the phone with a $500 deposit. I was faxed a buyers order with price clearly shown. Only add is $49 doc fee which is reasonable. Deals generally take 15 minutes in and out if you have financing elsewhere. You could arrange financing anywhere for that matter. I was able to get a 99 Odyssey for $316 over invoice in 1998. They no longer sell the Odyssey for that price. I do not blame them. However, they are honest. I recommend ordering one soon (if you want one) before they come out and we end up with a 6 month wait. I can tell you I have sent about 25 people there in my best guess over the years and no one was ever disappointed. I recently had to cancel an order for a 2002 Odyssey due to my involvement with military but will order one as soon as my life gets back to normal. Just tell John Page that INKY sent you. As for out of state. In OK you do not pay tax or anything like that until you register. So you simply take Honda title and buyers paperwork to you DMV and pay your states taxes. You can check on that by calling your DMV.
Hope this helps.
INKY
$800 manual adjustable ground control coil overs
$240 front and rear adjustable no-sway bars
$643 16"x7" rims with tires
Total $1683.
With the coilovers you can set your own ride height. Lift it for off road trips, then lower it for the track. The sways will keep her level at no expense in comfort. The tire package is what I paid to have mine delivered to my doorstep.
You could still get a short shift lever, urethane bushings for the sway bars and gearbox, and still only spend about half as much.
It's cool that OE manufacturers are getting into the customizing game, but pricing has to be more realistic.
-juice
If both vehicles are only meant for dirt roads then I think that the CRV is a better buy???
Kinda strange putting a deposit on a vehicle I haven't seen, driven or even know the price of but I feel comfortable with my decision. John Page seems like a very nice person and thorough. And yes, Inky, I did let John know you were the reason I called them. Good luck! Joe
The Highlander's system is more sophisticated. They employ a truly full-time AWD system, using a center viscous coupling. That means both axles get power all the time, so it doesn't really feel like FWD, and it may have a slight edge in terms of traction available.
The Highlander also offers an optional rear limited-slip differential (LSD) on the rear axle. So it can also shift power from side-to-side on the rear axle.
Beyond and instead of that LSD, Toyota offers stability control coupled with 4 wheel traction control. That effectively manages slip on both front and rear axle, really the ideal setup. It can also correct some understeer and oversteer situations.
The CR-V has a similar option in Japan, but Honda has chosen to not offer it here, which is a shame IMO. In practice, the CR-V offers an extra margin of traction for rain and light snow, which is probably fine for most people, but the Highlander's system is above and beyond.
-juice
If anyone cares, Grand Honda in Elmhurst Illinois is now selling 2001 SE for $20400, which according to the ad includes destination. I figure that to be $873 below invoice. Similar pricing on other models. They better watch out - if it goes any lower I just might buy a 2001.
Oh yeah - thanks Inky!
Michael
It does seem to me that Honda would sell even more CR-Vs if it added additional safety options: side curtain airbags and stability control would be at the top of the list. I'll probably buy a new CR-V anyway, but I'd be willing to pay more for those two options.
Toyota's VSC is a $650 stand-alone option. The cool thing about that is you can get it with any model (I4 or V6, 2WD or 4WD).
-juice
Is VSC available on 2 WD 4 cylinders in the real world? Are the dealers misleading me by suggesting that it is mostly the $30,000+ models that have this option? I certainly haven't found any 2 WD 4s with VSC in a dealer's stock. Thanks.
Sandhurst - The JDM CR-V is competition for a vehicle that is based on the Lexus RX300 in Japan and the price shows it. To make VSC work with the CR-V, it also has four channel ABS instead of the 3 channel that we get here. The shower kit is a nice attachment as well. :-)
Toyota has been doing AWD for a long time, in the Celica All-Trac, for example. Reliability should be quite good.
It certainly costs more, though.
You joke about the shower kit but one car at the Tokyo show actually had a shower head attachment! Honda even had two scooters in the front doors of its concept. Talk about wild stuff!
-juice
BTW, an AWD Highlander 2.4l starts at $25,790, and really only lacks a couple of items the CR-V EX comes with (alloys, side bags). Add those and you hit $26,560.
The 2001 CR-V EX auto costs $22k, but the 2002 EX 2.4l is expected to cost $23-24k. That's certainly getting mighty close, and the Toy has a longer warranty and 0% financing right now that could make the payment similar.
Add VSC for $650 more, but Toyota shouldn't be penalized for offering that (or a V6) as an option while Honda doesn't.
I like the Highlander, much more so than the RAV4. It feels substantive, like the RX300 without the fluff (as it is).
-juice
I'm fan of the Highlander, as well. It's just that getting one with AWD and either LSD or VSC costs quite a bit more (according to Edmunds, you can't get both LSD and VSC). And no, the Highlander shouldn't be penalized for offering a V-6. It just puts it into a different class. The '02 CR-V is almost a competitor with the 2.4 version, but not quite.
I do think a lot of people will cross-shop the CR-V, stripped down Highlander, and the VUE. Toyota has mastered packaging options so that adding even a few things you want quickly kicks the price up to $30k. But if you can keep the options under control you can get one for $26 or $27.
You may be right. The stripped down Highlanders certainly aren't on dealers lots. Others here have said that you can order one with the items you want, but I admit that I don't know how accommodating Toyota would be about that. The way Toyota packages options is very annoying.
Perhaps I should have said that people will cross-shop CR-V, VUE and Highlander until they find out that the Highlander they want will cost over $30k!
jheil, which state do you live in? You buy car/truck from CA and OK, do you fly there and drive home?
And for inky, thanks for serving our country!!!
Terry
http://www.handa-accessories.com/crv/crvkeyless.pdf
INKY
As I wandered through the show several vehicles caught me eye. A 112K Humvee..why would any person want one? Several Hyndai models looked real fine with prices that make you think twice. The Highlander does look nice at 34K. The RAV 4 just looks small. The Saturn Vue is interesting; however, what's with the 1980's truck looking headlights and nose? Triscapes too...nice space and looks...but are the recalls over? What a great way to "shop". All are in the same area for comparison without running all over.
I'm still sold on the CR-V. Just wish I could have seen one without a salesman breathing down my neck.
I DROVE the 2002 yesterday and can tell you that it is an incredible vehicle. Honda has change almost EVERYTHING with the CR-V. You might ewant to compare the changes to the Odyssey from 1998 to the new change of 1999.
Whats changed?
Engine, the 160 hp 162 ft lbs torque actually powers up and continues further than the 200 hp Escape, 210 Liberty...and FORGET the RAV-4. Yes we drove those too.
Suspension. They are now going to the 'modified' Macpherson strut, similar to the Civic change. I personally believe it has to do with the 5 star saftey rating.
Interior...very cool and user friendly. New shift knob placemnent, e brake placement, and the EX now comes standard with moon roof, 6 disc cd changer and more.
This new 2002 will do very very well.
Jerry
Jerry
Thanks.
I think Honda would rather have that walk-thru space between the two front buckets because the Honda MDX will most likely have a flat floor.
The Acura MDX itself already has a rather wide track, and yet it can only fit 7 (barely)...how is Honda going to fit an extra person in without making it super-wide?
I think Honda is being smart with the sizing. The new CRV is pretty big by "mini" SUV standards, so it will be attractive to those looking for what has classically been considered a "mid-size" SUV. The new Explorer is pretty large for a "mid-size" SUV. So Honda is probably aiming a liitle in front of the curve with the Honda MDX's size - by the time it hits the market "mid-size" might have a new meaning.
Besides, Honda learned a valuable lesson with the Odyssey. The last generation was conservative in size and didn't sell well. The current Ody is (or was) the largest minivan on the market and enjoys a huge demand. Honda knows America thinks "bigger is better" when it comes to family vehicles. Those who want a more upscale vehicle than the CRV will probably embrace the Honda MDX, regardless of it's larger size.
If not, they can buy an Envoy or Trailblazer...let them eat cake!!
Just my $0.02
I guess that we will all find out this Spring wont we?
Jerry
About pricing. Honda has always been pretty secretive regarding pricing. They dont put the Monroni labels on the side windows til they hit the port. So at this point NOBODY has MSRP or invoice info.
After speaking with some dealers on the 2002 I take it that we will be again in the supply/demand pricing situation.
Jerry
6 speed manual transmission
5 speed automatic transmission
Will we ever see those upgrades in the CRV.
Speaking of 6 speed transmissions, I remember the dark ages of the American automobile, the late '70s and early 80s. Someone wrote in when of the monthly magazines that the American manufactureres would start giving us 5 speeds when the Japanese began offering 6 speeds.
A creeper gear in first would be an interesting option, but it's already pretty low.
What your take on the guy in Oklahoma selling his allotment of 2002 CRVs @ $316.00 over invoice? Dose it sounds to good to be true, so it isn't?
How many 2002 CRVs are planned to be shipped to USA? 100,000 ?
Based on all the changes and upgrades of the 2002...and supplies being what they are projected to be, I would say that they will be sold pretty close to MSRP. We (my dealership) does not have a policy of adding a ADM sticker, so the highest we can go is MSRP. There will be dealers that will go above that both in price/or other misc charge like doc fees and in options. You see it everytime a new car is brought into the fold. Honda is treating this just like a new car.
So, again it comes down to this. Is what you are buying a good value to you? If it isn't then dont buy it. I get this frequently from people that are looking for Odysseys. They will say "I never pay MSRP". Thats fine, everyone has their own buying motivation...but if you look at what is being sold by D/C and Ford and GM...an invoice deal still is VERY close to MSRP on an Odyssey. So, it does come down to perspective.
Now, don't get me wrong. I sell Civics and Accords ALL day long at flat invoice. So it doesn't matter one whit to me what they go for. If I have them on the lot (CR-V) and they don't move as fast as say the Odyssey, then they will be discounted.
Hope this helps
Jerry
Honda bases their manufacturing their car on projections of 'what they can sell'. This means that cars are sold to people like me and you...NO FLEET sales. You dont see any fleet specials on Honda's do you? Residual values are consistently in the mid-upper 50%'s right? AND...and this is the big AND...Honda customers are generally the most loyal there is. So, a Honda sale is to keep a customer in the Honda family for a long time.
If a dealer was smart, and sometimes we let pride get in our way with these things, when someone comes up and says that Joe Blow Honda in Bartles and James OK is selling this or that at 316 over invoice...if this car is a hot seller, I won't honor someone elses business model. Why should I?
Again, using Odysseys as an example. At our last ride and drive I spoke with the rep for a buying service at a another dealership close to us. He told me that they are "working on July deliveries" for orders on Odysseys for the dealership...the buying service is on a 15 month waiting list. So you can wait 1 year and 3 months for a 'deal' on a Odyssey or you can buy one at MSRP+900+doc fees...in July. Go figure!
Enough of my rant! :-)
Jerry
/fine line/
Thanks!
Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Accessories Message Boards
JM2C
I was curious - do you know whether that figure takes inflation into account? At today's typical prices, that $200K would get you as many as 10 cars. 30 years ago, 200K would have gotten you perhaps 30 or 40, better than 1 a year!
tidester
Host
SUVs