Tidester - Welcome to the forum. That figure is actually pretty old. That's why I specified, "well over $200K". I'm sure it's gone up since I saw it years ago. I know that makes it sound even more ridiculous, but you need to take into account that the polling is for "new car buyers". We're not talking about the average American. Some of the people in this class are the ones who buy a new car every three or four years. The cars themselves are more likely to be Bimmers, MBs, or others in that class. This probably includes cars for their kids, as well.
Basically, your average "new car buyer" is not your average American.
Just to give you a heads up on how Honda works regarding promotions.
First they introduce the product
Secondly after a period of initial sales, 2-6 months, they will put a "spin" on the product to the sales force. A "spin" is a computer generated amount from 100-1,000 and is paid directly through Honda. This generates excitement within the sales force to regain some focus on that product and to earn more money.
Third and this is after a while on the market. Honda will work with some financing issues. Maybe rate, maybe a special lease package.
The odds that Honda will offer a low interest rate on an initial roll out are slim to none. After all, commercial rates now are the best that I have EVER seen in the car business. You can with a decent beacon score, and down payment get 5.99 easily through credit unions right now. Also don't forget the finance dept at your dealership, they can be very competitive too.
Jerry - what is the MSRP for an EX? 5 speed and auto? Noone has shared that info yet.
Highlander is bigger and costs less than the RX, so I would pick the Toyota between the two. The RX has Star Trek styling I'm not big on, while the Toyota is boxy and practical. The wife likes it, too.
Her car is leaking oil now, so I'm beginning to shop around more actively. Could not sell the wagon idea to her, nor could I sell her on a minivan. She wants a sedan. I could probably sneak in a 5 door hatch or an SUV it if was nice enough.
Jerry - please tell me the Honda MDX will go for a real-world $30k price. They will really miss the meat of the market if they do not offer a mid-size V6 in that price range. Also, now that the 2nd plant is up and running, is supply keeping up with demand for the platform?
Interesting stuff . . . yep, we already know (or know where to look up) the scheduled maintenance on our cars. But this tool tries to give cost estimates for parts and labor.
Hmmmm . . . I wonder exactly how THOSE dollar figures were obtained. . . .
Jerry, 5 stars thats great!!! I hope Honda realizes that we are "offically in a recession", and that for sales to be really strong the low interest loans should continue. Maybe the "new" CRV will be treated differently than an accord or civic, but it is still has 4 wheels and a body! My salesman at Honda said what you said about popularity and price. I just hope being a repeat customer and good ole hagglin might get me a better deal. Maybe I will wait till spring, or try an internet deal through the dealership or by a buying service.
Just to calm you all about this. Lets look at another car that was substantially upgraded recently. That being the Odyssey. Honda upgraded the 2002 Odyssey with a new engine, new transmission, greater economy and more power, added 4 wheel disc brakes all around and standard ABS. Not to mention side airbags as standard.
So, the speculation about the new Odyssey with all of these improvements was anywhere between $1,000 to $3,000 added dollars for the 2001 to the 2002. The price increase was $350...thats it! So, what has that done for demand? BOOM! How about resale? I have an ad from CarMax for a 2001 Odyssey EX with 7,000 miles on it...a NO HAGGLE price of $28,598 a new one goes for 27,190.
The point that I am trying to make is that Honda is VERY much in tune with your budget and the economy. Remember my previous post where I said that we will make AND sell 125,000 units? Can we do that if this car is a dog? OR overpriced? We might be able to make them but to SELL them?
If I have learned one thing about Honda...they make the right amount and they sell them all, you cant do that if they are overpriced. I saw a TV show on the Food TV network the other night. They showed this micro-brew in Montana...their saying was "We make all that we can...and we drink all that we can...then we sell the rest!"
Interesting . . . Edmunds says that the part prices are average list prices for aftermarket parts. . . . For the CR-V, the aftermarket filters look overpriced compared to the OEM versions, while the aftermarket fluids look like bargains. I hope future versions adopt TMV pricing like Edmunds does with the cars themselves. But at least owners can budget for worst-case scenarios for costs.
You wrote that the new CR-V will be very close to or a 5-star crash vehicle. Are you basing this on internal Honda testing? Your analysis of the safety features? Both? Do you predict 3 stars again on rollover?
Juice - I like it. If that thing offers the "bed" from the CR-V, it would be the next best thing to an RV or pop-up camper.
Jerry - The modifications made to the CR-V in 99 were pretty much the same. They added 20 hp (while retaining mpg), improved the seating surfaces, gave it rear cupholders, improved small ergonomic issues and only increased the price $100. That's not much more than the standard increase you see with an unchanged model from one year to another.
All the changes we've seen for the '02 CR-V are much more significant (more power, better safety, lower emmisions, added sunroof, tinted windows, improved NVH, improved transmissions, etc...). Yet the estimated prices are not that much higher than last years. They aren't giving these things away, but compare it with the revised RAV4 and you'll see equal if not better value.
The CR-V hasd been beefed up to the tune of 500 lbs of added steel. The A, B, C, and D pillars have all been reinforced and filled with expansion foam. The roof has been strengthened with cross members internally and the same with the flooring. This adds up to an increase in torsional rigidity of 50% and bending rigidity of 30%
The front steering has been changed from the independant to a Control Link MacPherson strut....the same theory as the changes to the Civic. When Honda did thatwe heard alot of whining from the purists...then they got 5 star so everyone now is happy with Civic.
"The CR-V hasd been beefed up to the tune of 500 lbs of added steel". Couldn't have been that much, could it? From what I've read, the new CR-V has only put on about 100 - 150 lbs overall.
According to Honda's press info, the old CR-V weighed approx 3200 pounds and the new one weighs approximately 3300 pounds. (Subtract about 100 lbs for the 2WD models.) An overall increase of 500 pounds would have put the vehicle squarely in the weight class of the XTerra or Liberty.
Bed, shower, what's next? Ford has a van concept with a clothes washer. Add a PC with net access and you can live in your car! :-)
Honda had bad timing with the launch, given not a whole lot of people are shopping right now. But if they took that into account when setting the price, a lot of folks can snap one up at a good value.
You guys missed Jerry's point. Glass actually weighs more than steel. If the pillars are thicker, the windows are smaller, and that can offset the gains.
The catch is you may have blind spots and less of the airy feel that big windows offer.
After reading this forum and others, I wonder if the Internet, with a little help from edmunds.com, is bringing us closer to Adam Smith's perfect market.
I like cars, and tend to keep my vehicles a long time. But the car is still a commodity; the car I buy in Oklahoma is essentially the same car (or SUV) that I'd buy in Colorado Springs. All other things being equal, I'd take my business to the local dealer. But if the local dealer insists on MSRP and the dealer in OK is $1500.00 cheaper, then all other things are not equal.
Recently I went to the local dealer to look at the '01 CR-Vs. The dealership had changed hands since I bought my Civic VX in '93. (I'll probably keep that forever, regardless of what I buy next). I was pleasantly surprised to see that the dealer didn't add additional dealer markup and unwanted dealer-installed accessories, as it routinely attempted to do back in '93. (Then, the dealer quickly dropped the additional markup, and we split the difference between invoice and sticker. I'd probably expect to do better today). Even more surprising, the current salesman assumed that I'd done some research on the vehicle and that I actually knew something. Obviously not a representative sample, but still encouraging. So now a dealer that I expected to distrust will get a shot at my business when I'm ready to buy.
I'm sure that the dealer will gladly take my service dollars, whether I buy from that dealer, somebody 50 miles north or south, or somebody out of state. I already have an independent mechanic I trust, so I'd avoid the dealer's service department as much as possible anyway. Which raises another question: what, if any, service has to be performed by the dealer to keep the warranty valid?
When buying time comes, if the dealer has a waiting list of people buying at MSRP, the dealer has little incentive to deal. Just as I know that if I can get the same vehicle $1500.00 cheaper for the cost of a road trip that I'd enjoy anyway, I have little incentive to pay MSRP. Tulsa has a AAA baseball team, so I'll be able to pick up the vehicle and see the Redhawks.
Juice - I don't think so. When I read his remarks, I took it to mean that the pillars have been strengthened with more steel. This could have been done from the inside of the pillar and does not necessarily require broadening the exterior dimensions. Besides, even a wider pillar would not significantly reduce the amount of glass used in the windows.
The new engine is likley about the same size as the old one. Maybe a tiny bit smaller. The 2.0 that it is based on is supposed to be 10% smaller and lighter than the previous Honda 2.0. But since the CR-V's version is a 2.4 and probably has a larger/heavier head on it, it should be about the same. Also the RT4WD system is the same, we've added a moonroof (@80-100 lbs) to the EX model, it's bigger all around, carries the same spare tire, and there's more hardware in the rear seats. There are no aluminum panels. The suspension might be the only place where weight was saved. I have doubts about the addition of 500 lbs of steel. I'm looking for the crossmembers though. I think this pic illustrates them.
Drew and Town Hall parted ways last Thursday week. We miss him. Meanwhile, SUVs gets another co-host, Tidester. Steve Host SUVs, Vans and Accessories Message Boards
Regarding the price points for the 2002 CRV, I think jnmurman's post #3463 is probably the closest prediction to what Honda will actually do vis-a-vis pricing on the new CRV. The new EX will most likely be priced very close to the current version,with the exception of the upcharge for the power sunroof. My guess (along with many enthusiast publications)is a sticker hovering close to the $23,000 mark. The LX version might be only $3-400 higher than the current version.
hayduke01: I've also discovered a very good Honda dealership in town, atleast based on my experience until now. No nonsense negotiation tactics, and quick delaings. I'm very happy with the service department too. I was in hurry dropping off my car for a scheduled maintenance, and the courtesy van was still atleast half an hour away. One of the service rep gave me a ride to work! Another instance involves a missed record of an appointment. My car was accomodated, but could not be worked upon on the day. The dealership handed me a courtesy rental car! May be, I've been lucky, but they have found a customer in me, and in the form of many of my friends.
Price tag: In all likelihood, my guess is that the new price will be within 1% of the 2001 CRV.
Weight: Varmit, wasn't the previous generation CR-V about as heavy as the 2002 CR-V? An interesting point about the new 2.0 liter I-4 (RSX). The new engine is smaller and lighter than the 1.8 liter I-4 it replaces! So I wouldn't be surprised if the new 2.4/I-4 is similar to the 2.0 it replaces in dimensions and weight. Most of new CR-Vs additional weight (after all the savings in the form of drivetrain and suspension) may be due to added NVH refinement and safety.
Robertmx - Yes, the two models are very similar in regard to how much they weigh. That's why I'm a bit confused by Jerry's remarks about Honda adding 500 lbs of steel to reinforce the new frame. I'd never read anything like that before and I can't figure out where the weight was saved.
Model 5speed / automatic
Old EX 3219 / 3245
New EX 3287 / 3347
WRT the engines... The original CR-V's engine was actually a 2.0 with the same exterior dimensions as the 1.6 (same as the 1.8L). They used a very tight engine architecture to place the cylinders close to each other.
The new block is supposed to be some 10% lighter and 9% smaller than the previous engine. Now we're talking tiny block. However, bore and stroke have been increased to 87.0 x 99.0 from 84.0 x 89.0. I believe only the RAV4's engine is smaller, but it cranks out significantly less power. I don't have any specs on that size comparison, though. It's something that I was told.
Sounds like an exaggeration. CR-V wasn't a slouch in crashworthiness (five stars?), although everybody expects it to do much better now. May be, 50 lb., with new stampings to make the structure more rigid and safe.
I know this is a CR-V board, but we all check out the competition form time to time.....still nothing official but it looks like the CR-V might finally have some direct competition from Nissan
(being as the X-terra is a gas-guzzling, rock-crawling truck)
varmit: there is some less glass, perhaps the rest of the weight savings is due to the new front suspension?
You want to see think pillars? Check out the D-pillar on that Nissan. Talk about blind spots!
Carlos "le cost cutter" Ghosn has done much for Nissan lately. The Altima looks good. It is getting a lot of heat for the supposedly cheap interior (I disagree), but that is one sweet engine.
Also, it seems every vehicle is getting taller and taller headlights. In fact, they've gone from being horizontal to almost vertical, if you look at some of the latest concepts. If the trend continues, the headlighs will be stretched up until they reach the windshield!
News this morning Honda increasing CRV production at Sayama to 19000 per month. To do this they moved Odyssey production out of Sayama (to Alabama?). Or moved to a different production line at Sayama.
Coupled with 90000 production from Swindon. Honda has 318000 CRVs to sell a year. US should get more than half of that.
The Odyssey referenced there is most likely the smaller Odyssey sold everywhere but the US. Honda calls the big North American Odyssey the LaGreat in Asia.
I doubt the new CR-V will sell at a 159,000 per year pace in the USA. Even though the class as a whole is expanding, there are more and more competitors taking a slice of that pie. 120,000 is more like it.
Remember, you've got the Vue coming soon, then the Vibe and Matrix on the lower end, with the Freelander on the high end.
Artdecho - Someone on one of these boards sent a letter to Nissan asking about the Xtrail. He was told that Nissan cannot bring the Xtrail over here because it will not meet N. American standards for emissions and crash protection. Given that no one other than the fellow in those posts has rumored the Xtrail's arrival, I tend to be suspicious.
Juice - Actually, the Altima has two sweet engines.
Even if the CR-V didn't have any front suspension, it wouldn't weight 500 lbs less. 500 lbs is a Yugo or a Justy.
As for the competition, I agree. The segment is getting crowded. Though I don't think that the Freelander, Vibe and Matrix will have a significant effect. The wagon models are marketed toward a younger crowd than the CR-V and don't measure equally in terms of size and image. Most likley they'll hurt the PT Cruiser, OBS, Civic SI and compete more directly with the Protege5 and that Suzuki thingy. The Freelander is an expensive off-roader with no cargo room. It probably won't account for any more sales than the Grand Vitara, though the buyers will be more affluent. The Xterra and Liberty will take the majority of hardcore-truck sales in this segment. The Vue is serious competition, though. If Saturn can keep momentum at launch, it'll do well. Most Saturn fans have been waiting too long for it.
The fact that with the supposed N.A. launch of the X-Trail a mere 4 months away we have heard boo from Nissan (or any other sources, car mags etc) doesn't ode too well. As for emissions, with the Aussie and N.A. X-trail getting the new Altima 4 (and 6 as well for N.A), they shouldn't be a problem. I know in the JDM blurb I read about the X-Trail, it exceeded their highest crash test standards, so think it would be ok with ours too. I guees it's just a waiting game at this point until we hear something definite. In the meantime, looking forward to checking out the new CR-V "in the flesh"....should be only a couple more weeks now.
X-Trail If Nissan were to bring it here, they would stomp on their own foot. Something similar to Toyota's move to bring Highlander, when they had 4Runner in the market. Now, the car based SUV is in demand, and the 4Runner is going at 0.0% financing.
CRV sales: I think projected sales of 150K CRV may not be a stretch. One could have said that for Odyssey, but isn't Honda producing about 110-120K Odysseys for N.A. already?
Well, if the car-based SUV is in demand, all the more reason for Nissan to have a player in this rapidly-expanding field. The 4Runner has evolved to a fairly luxo-truck at a price-point that closely mirrors the Highlander. The X-terra is a back-to-basics truck for serious off-roaders and probably would not be as affected as you think. Especially here in Canada, where we get only two models, a well-equipped V6 4WD X-terra and the new Super-charged even better equipped version. They start around $30K. Whereas CR-V's, Triscapes, Rav-4's, Santa Fe's, Foresters etc. start in the mid 20's for AWD versions and this is where the X-Trail should be.
Bot my copy today at Barnes Noble. 0 to 60 time is 8.9 seconds. 1/4 mile 17 seconds at 79.4mph. I assume that's auto model. Liberty got 10 seconds and 17.3/79.1, Highlander 8.3 and 16.4/84.1, Envoy 8.0 and 16/85.5, Freelander 10.5 and 17.6/77.8. I think CRV did good enough for me, surprised it beats out Liberty.
60 to 0 braking is 133 ft, many others are around 126 ft. 600 ft slalom is 58.1,this is middle of the pack.
VUE. Given over half CRV buyers are women, Vue is aiming right at this market. Its got to hurt sales.
It would take Nissan at least until next fall to get the XTrail ready for the US. That's my guess, if they even bring it at all. The next Pathfinder will be bigger and pricier so they definitely have a gap in their lineup for a car-based sport/cute. They have no small wagon, so they really could use it.
Jerry - maybe what they told you was meant to give a general idea of a rather substantial beefing up of the structure. The number itself may have not been exact, just an indication.
bar - a TSB is for problems that may occure on some of those models. You should only take it in if you feel you have a lot of wind noise coming from that area, i.e. yours is an affected vehicle.
TSBs are no big deal. A manufacturer will sometimes issue a TSB for something as simple as hints on installing accessories.
MT? You sure that wasn't a 5 speed? That would be pretty quick for an auto.
Comments
Basically, your average "new car buyer" is not your average American.
First they introduce the product
Secondly after a period of initial sales, 2-6 months, they will put a "spin" on the product to the sales force. A "spin" is a computer generated amount from 100-1,000 and is paid directly through Honda. This generates excitement within the sales force to regain some focus on that product and to earn more money.
Third and this is after a while on the market. Honda will work with some financing issues. Maybe rate, maybe a special lease package.
The odds that Honda will offer a low interest rate on an initial roll out are slim to none. After all, commercial rates now are the best that I have EVER seen in the car business. You can with a decent beacon score, and down payment get 5.99 easily through credit unions right now. Also don't forget the finance dept at your dealership, they can be very competitive too.
Jerry
Highlander is bigger and costs less than the RX, so I would pick the Toyota between the two. The RX has Star Trek styling I'm not big on, while the Toyota is boxy and practical. The wife likes it, too.
Her car is leaking oil now, so I'm beginning to shop around more actively. Could not sell the wagon idea to her, nor could I sell her on a minivan. She wants a sedan. I could probably sneak in a 5 door hatch or an SUV it if was nice enough.
Jerry - please tell me the Honda MDX will go for a real-world $30k price. They will really miss the meat of the market if they do not offer a mid-size V6 in that price range. Also, now that the 2nd plant is up and running, is supply keeping up with demand for the platform?
-juice
Interesting stuff . . . yep, we already know (or know where to look up) the scheduled maintenance on our cars. But this tool tries to give cost estimates for parts and labor.
Hmmmm . . . I wonder exactly how THOSE dollar figures were obtained. . . .
I hope Honda realizes that we are "offically in a recession", and that for sales to be really strong the low interest loans should continue. Maybe the "new" CRV will be treated differently than an accord or civic, but it is still has 4 wheels and a body! My salesman at Honda said what you said about popularity and price. I just hope being a repeat customer and good ole hagglin might get me a better deal. Maybe I will wait till spring, or try an internet deal through the dealership or by a buying service.
So yes, where did they get those figures?
-juice
I guess SUP stands for "Shower, U Pig", perhaps for the sweaty mountain biker. ;-)
-juice
So, the speculation about the new Odyssey with all of these improvements was anywhere between $1,000 to $3,000 added dollars for the 2001 to the 2002. The price increase was $350...thats it! So, what has that done for demand? BOOM! How about resale? I have an ad from CarMax for a 2001 Odyssey EX with 7,000 miles on it...a NO HAGGLE price of $28,598 a new one goes for 27,190.
The point that I am trying to make is that Honda is VERY much in tune with your budget and the economy. Remember my previous post where I said that we will make AND sell 125,000 units? Can we do that if this car is a dog? OR overpriced? We might be able to make them but to SELL them?
If I have learned one thing about Honda...they make the right amount and they sell them all, you cant do that if they are overpriced. I saw a TV show on the Food TV network the other night. They showed this micro-brew in Montana...their saying was "We make all that we can...and we drink all that we can...then we sell the rest!"
Gotta love it!
Jerry
You wrote that the new CR-V will be very close to or a 5-star crash vehicle. Are you basing this on internal Honda testing? Your analysis of the safety features? Both? Do you predict 3 stars again on rollover?
Thanks.
That's a good point (wish I had thought of it) about multiple car families. There were far fewer of them back in the 60's & 70's.
tidester
Host
SUVs
-juice
Jerry - The modifications made to the CR-V in 99 were pretty much the same. They added 20 hp (while retaining mpg), improved the seating surfaces, gave it rear cupholders, improved small ergonomic issues and only increased the price $100. That's not much more than the standard increase you see with an unchanged model from one year to another.
All the changes we've seen for the '02 CR-V are much more significant (more power, better safety, lower emmisions, added sunroof, tinted windows, improved NVH, improved transmissions, etc...). Yet the estimated prices are not that much higher than last years. They aren't giving these things away, but compare it with the revised RAV4 and you'll see equal if not better value.
The front steering has been changed from the independant to a Control Link MacPherson strut....the same theory as the changes to the Civic. When Honda did thatwe heard alot of whining from the purists...then they got 5 star so everyone now is happy with Civic.
Hope this helps you out.
Jerry
Honda had bad timing with the launch, given not a whole lot of people are shopping right now. But if they took that into account when setting the price, a lot of folks can snap one up at a good value.
You guys missed Jerry's point. Glass actually weighs more than steel. If the pillars are thicker, the windows are smaller, and that can offset the gains.
The catch is you may have blind spots and less of the airy feel that big windows offer.
-juice
I like cars, and tend to keep my vehicles a long time. But the car is still a commodity; the car I buy in Oklahoma is essentially the same car (or SUV) that I'd buy in Colorado Springs. All other things being equal, I'd take my business to the local dealer. But if the local dealer insists on MSRP and the dealer in OK is $1500.00 cheaper, then all other things are not equal.
Recently I went to the local dealer to look at the '01 CR-Vs. The dealership had changed hands since I bought my Civic VX in '93. (I'll probably keep that forever, regardless of what I buy next). I was pleasantly surprised to see that the dealer didn't add additional dealer markup and unwanted dealer-installed accessories, as it routinely attempted to do back in '93. (Then, the dealer quickly dropped the additional markup, and we split the difference between invoice and sticker. I'd probably expect to do better today). Even more surprising, the current salesman assumed that I'd done some research on the vehicle and that I actually knew something. Obviously not a representative sample, but still encouraging. So now a dealer that I expected to distrust will get a shot at my business when I'm ready to buy.
I'm sure that the dealer will gladly take my service dollars, whether I buy from that dealer, somebody 50 miles north or south, or somebody out of state. I already have an independent mechanic I trust, so I'd avoid the dealer's service department as much as possible anyway. Which raises another question: what, if any, service has to be performed by the dealer to keep the warranty valid?
When buying time comes, if the dealer has a waiting list of people buying at MSRP, the dealer has little incentive to deal. Just as I know that if I can get the same vehicle $1500.00 cheaper for the cost of a road trip that I'd enjoy anyway, I have little incentive to pay MSRP. Tulsa has a AAA baseball team, so I'll be able to pick up the vehicle and see the Redhawks.
The new engine is likley about the same size as the old one. Maybe a tiny bit smaller. The 2.0 that it is based on is supposed to be 10% smaller and lighter than the previous Honda 2.0. But since the CR-V's version is a 2.4 and probably has a larger/heavier head on it, it should be about the same. Also the RT4WD system is the same, we've added a moonroof (@80-100 lbs) to the EX model, it's bigger all around, carries the same spare tire, and there's more hardware in the rear seats. There are no aluminum panels. The suspension might be the only place where weight was saved. I have doubts about the addition of 500 lbs of steel. I'm looking for the crossmembers though. I think this pic illustrates them.
http://osx.wieck.com/pv/HON/2001/09/01/HON2001090146717_pv.jpg
Along with some other supports...
http://osx.wieck.com/pv/HON/2001/09/01/HON2001090146636_pv.jpg
http://osx.wieck.com/pv/HON/2001/09/01/HON2001090146438_pv.jpg
http://osx.wieck.com/pv/HON/2001/09/01/HON2001090146518_pv.jpg
Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Accessories Message Boards
Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Accessories Message Boards
tidester
Host
SUVs
I've also discovered a very good Honda dealership in town, atleast based on my experience until now. No nonsense negotiation tactics, and quick delaings. I'm very happy with the service department too. I was in hurry dropping off my car for a scheduled maintenance, and the courtesy van was still atleast half an hour away. One of the service rep gave me a ride to work! Another instance involves a missed record of an appointment. My car was accomodated, but could not be worked upon on the day. The dealership handed me a courtesy rental car! May be, I've been lucky, but they have found a customer in me, and in the form of many of my friends.
Price tag: In all likelihood, my guess is that the new price will be within 1% of the 2001 CRV.
Weight: Varmit, wasn't the previous generation CR-V about as heavy as the 2002 CR-V? An interesting point about the new 2.0 liter I-4 (RSX). The new engine is smaller and lighter than the 1.8 liter I-4 it replaces! So I wouldn't be surprised if the new 2.4/I-4 is similar to the 2.0 it replaces in dimensions and weight.
Most of new CR-Vs additional weight (after all the savings in the form of drivetrain and suspension) may be due to added NVH refinement and safety.
Model 5speed / automatic
Old EX 3219 / 3245
New EX 3287 / 3347
WRT the engines... The original CR-V's engine was actually a 2.0 with the same exterior dimensions as the 1.6 (same as the 1.8L). They used a very tight engine architecture to place the cylinders close to each other.
The new block is supposed to be some 10% lighter and 9% smaller than the previous engine. Now we're talking tiny block. However, bore and stroke have been increased to 87.0 x 99.0 from 84.0 x 89.0. I believe only the RAV4's engine is smaller, but it cranks out significantly less power. I don't have any specs on that size comparison, though. It's something that I was told.
(being as the X-terra is a gas-guzzling, rock-crawling truck)
http://forums.vmag.com/suvcrv0999/messages/3060.html (original link)
an update from reg:
http://forums.vmag.com/suvcrv0999/messages/3065.html
The x-Trail will definitely be on my shopping list (along with the CR-V) if it gets here next Feb/Mar.
http://forums.vmag.com/suvcrv0999/messages/3075.html
You want to see think pillars? Check out the D-pillar on that Nissan. Talk about blind spots!
Carlos "le cost cutter" Ghosn has done much for Nissan lately. The Altima looks good. It is getting a lot of heat for the supposedly cheap interior (I disagree), but that is one sweet engine.
Also, it seems every vehicle is getting taller and taller headlights. In fact, they've gone from being horizontal to almost vertical, if you look at some of the latest concepts. If the trend continues, the headlighs will be stretched up until they reach the windshield!
-juice
Coupled with 90000 production from Swindon. Honda has 318000 CRVs to sell a year. US should get more than half of that.
Remember, you've got the Vue coming soon, then the Vibe and Matrix on the lower end, with the Freelander on the high end.
All that plus a slowing economy.
-juice
Juice - Actually, the Altima has two sweet engines.
Even if the CR-V didn't have any front suspension, it wouldn't weight 500 lbs less. 500 lbs is a Yugo or a Justy.
As for the competition, I agree. The segment is getting crowded. Though I don't think that the Freelander, Vibe and Matrix will have a significant effect. The wagon models are marketed toward a younger crowd than the CR-V and don't measure equally in terms of size and image. Most likley they'll hurt the PT Cruiser, OBS, Civic SI and compete more directly with the Protege5 and that Suzuki thingy. The Freelander is an expensive off-roader with no cargo room. It probably won't account for any more sales than the Grand Vitara, though the buyers will be more affluent. The Xterra and Liberty will take the majority of hardcore-truck sales in this segment. The Vue is serious competition, though. If Saturn can keep momentum at launch, it'll do well. Most Saturn fans have been waiting too long for it.
In the meantime, looking forward to checking out the new CR-V "in the flesh"....should be only a couple more weeks now.
If Nissan were to bring it here, they would stomp on their own foot. Something similar to Toyota's move to bring Highlander, when they had 4Runner in the market. Now, the car based SUV is in demand, and the 4Runner is going at 0.0% financing.
CRV sales:
I think projected sales of 150K CRV may not be a stretch. One could have said that for Odyssey, but isn't Honda producing about 110-120K Odysseys for N.A. already?
Jerry
Especially here in Canada, where we get only two models, a well-equipped V6 4WD X-terra and the new Super-charged even better equipped version.
They start around $30K. Whereas CR-V's, Triscapes,
Rav-4's, Santa Fe's, Foresters etc. start in the mid 20's for AWD versions and this is where the X-Trail should be.
i have a 2001 Honda CR-V and i've learned that NHTSA has a TSB:
NHTSA Number: SB619918
Bulletin Number: 97086
Bulletin Date: MAR 2001
Summary:
EXPERIENCING WIND NOISE FROM THE POWER MIRROR(S). *TT"
what do i need to do then? do dealers have the fix?
sowwy but i dunno how to deal with this situation
60 to 0 braking is 133 ft, many others are around 126 ft. 600 ft slalom is 58.1,this is middle of the pack.
VUE. Given over half CRV buyers are women, Vue is aiming right at this market. Its got to hurt sales.
Also (to the thread), if Honda released a TSB on the issue, doesn't that mean they have a fix?
Jerry - maybe what they told you was meant to give a general idea of a rather substantial beefing up of the structure. The number itself may have not been exact, just an indication.
bar - a TSB is for problems that may occure on some of those models. You should only take it in if you feel you have a lot of wind noise coming from that area, i.e. yours is an affected vehicle.
TSBs are no big deal. A manufacturer will sometimes issue a TSB for something as simple as hints on installing accessories.
MT? You sure that wasn't a 5 speed? That would be pretty quick for an auto.
-juice
wind gusts often. the noise was normal
for me before attributing highway speed
conditions.
anyway, no big deal