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If you post your email address here, I will email you the name & number of my dealer who got me the great deal on the CRV. (I'd rather not post it here because I don't want him innundated with phone calls).
I told him today that I may know someone else who was interested & he said to pass his info to you. He did say he is selling closer to sticker since, but he will try to help you out. In addition to the car itself, I did get some add-ons, so perhaps that was where he made back some of his money.
Finally got to test drive a CR-V today. It was a silver EX. I had just rented an Escape XLT 4x4 on the weekend and here are my initial impressions and comparisons: - The 3.0L Escape definitely has more power and you can really feel it. - The auto tranny in the CR-V is smooth but it seems they programmed it not to downshift as much. I guess this was done to eliminate annoying downshifts but it seemed sometimes it needed to downshift when it didn't. This re-affirmed my desire for a 5 spd MT. - Brakes did not seem as strong as the Escape's, although I think this is a pad material issue as Escapes are constantly covered with brake dust. - Handling seemed similar although the Escape felt more "lively". - The CR-V was more smooth, more quiet, and seemed much better put together. - The front leg room in the CR-V is just adequate for me (5' 10"), much less than the Escape's. - The rear leg room in the CR-V is more which seems to be the trade-off Honda made. - Overall space seems a tad larger everywhere in the CR-V. - The rear seat arrangement in the CR-V smokes the Escape's.
In the end the CR-V was not as "fun" to drive as the Escape. However, the CR-V seemed like a much better built vehicle. Also, the CR-V is more car-like which is actually what I want. The EPA listed mileage is better in the CR-V, and early posts here indicated that the CR-V is at least as good as the EPA numbers in real life. In the end I am getting the CR-V. The Escape is more fun to drive, but I think CR-V will be more fun to own.
Any comments or comparisons between the Honda CR-V and the Hyundai 4WD Santa Fe GLS V6?? I need to make up my mind soon and they both have some really strong points. It does appear that the CR-V may be easier to find & purchase in the next couple of months. Anyways, let me know what you think about these to SUVs.
I have been a follower of this board for over a year and have been reading the Honda-CRV messages almost daily since the interest and hype on the 2002 model started but only recently decided to become an active member to this site. I am looking forward to replace my 1988 Accord, which has seen 147,000 miles with the CRV. My Accord is still going strong. No problem, just regular oil changes, plugs, filters, timing belts etc. We are a Honda family. My wife drives a 1998 Accord EX. I am not quite ready to make my purchase partly because I am not happy with the fact that it still has the rear mounted spare, the wheel well issue, fabric colors etc. I have test driven the Forester and Highlander but my heart says CRV. Maybe I am a perfectionist and expect to find the perfect but this is not possibly. I have read here where some members are unable to find the invoice prices for the new CRV. There is a dealer here in the Boston area that lists his total inventory of 2002 CRVs including dealer cost (invoice) and MSRP on each model and invites customers to make an offer. He seems to be doing good business because yesterday morning the site listed 33 CRVs and this morning 27. This figure may not be correct because the list includes 3 SE models ?2001.
Here is the link to that site if anyone is interested.
That dealership (Boch) is about two miles down the road from me. Terrific looking facility. I got an invite to their grand opening thingy about two or three weeks ago. They had nothing in stock at the time, but it gave me a chance to play around in (not drive) a new Ody and an S2K. Salesguys were nice enough, but the two I spoke with didn't know anything about the products.
1. CRV is generally more attractive 2. Hyundai's are getting better, but Honda's are generally more reliable and will give you FAR better resale value down the road. 3. There are more Honda dealers to shop around or in case you repairs.
I checked out that CR-V link. They may have mixed up with some 01' CR-Vs. As far as I know there is no SE for 02' CR-V. Their "dealer cost" for 4WD EX AT looks more like 01' than 02'. When I visited a local dealer last Friday, the salesman confirmed that $21040(included dest.) for 02' EX AT is correct. Whoever updated their website may have done it in a hurry and got the old pricing info. Besides their "Click for detail" links return ASP error.
The Santa Fe will have more options for the same money. It also has considerably more cargo space. The fact that it offers a V-6 is moot. The extra 500 lbs slow it down. Unless you plan on towing, the V6 won't mean a thing. The warranty is the best, but I *think* it still only covers the drivetrain.
While the CR-V offers less equipment, the things that are standard are less likely to break. Expect better mpg, better crash safety, and lower emissions. Neither one of these buggies is an off-roader.
I would also add the Saturn VUE to your list of possibles.
Santa Fe's V6 makes good torque, the warranty is absolutely fantastic, and it's a good value for the price.
The cons include "worse than average" reliability, according to CR, relatively poor gas mileage, and likely bad resale value. If it breaks a lot you still have the hassle of going to the dealer to get things fixed.
The styling is polarizing. My little brother (16) loves it, but I kind of think it looks like an angry Pikachu. He likes Pokemon so that explains it!
Honda really ought to offer a better warranty. Reliability is great, so think about it - how much would it really cost them? Toyota recently extended theirs, so Honda ought to match it. It's extra piece of mind.
The CR-V has been solid, but I'm sure the 1999 Odyssey owners with bum transmissions wished the powertrain warranty had not expired at 36k miles. Many buyers go ahead and factor an extra $1000 in the price for a longer warranty.
The new Civic isn't as reliable as the previous generation, so time will tell if the new CR-V suffers the same fate. I think it'll still be better than average.
Pretty wild Liberty rollover story. I think Jeep needs to take another look at that suspension. Perhaps it's tuned too aggressively, or the tires are too wide, but they really ought to skid before they tip onto 2 wheels or roll.
This maybe meaningless but in the last 3 months I've seeing two Santa Fes broke down in traffic ,no CRV . Given the large number of CRV on the road vs Santa Fe, I'd forget the Huyndai.
Juice - Is the first year new Civic not as reliable as the first year of the last Civic, or the last year of the old Civic? In other words, is CR (I assume that's where the data is from) comparing first year models or the last year of one design to the first year of a new design? Or are they comparing to the industry average or to a set standard? The industry average keeps changing and has been going up for the past decade. So a car that was better than the industry average 7 years ago was compared to a lower average than a car competing with today's average.
Juice.....yeah, that was a pretty wild story about the Liberty....DC's explanation (partial) was that the pavement surface was not perfectly uniform (in terms of adhesion)They tried to duplicate the test on their own "perfect" asphalt but couldn't. Tell me, what road in real life has a perfectly uniform surface? There are always going to be varyng levels of adhesion due to sand, oil, moisture etc. and the test was only done at 40 mph! Think if you had to make an emergency manouver at 70! I guess if you did, you're safer to just crash!
I dunno. The driver got out with no serious injuries. I won't defend the Liberty's stability, but I think it protected the driver well enough. Knowing that, I would rather risk the rollover rather than go head first into whatever I was trying to avoid.
My understanding of DC's explanation was that the culprit was the technique of driving it hard between cones and suddenly braking to make the turn. AW even remarked that the technique was derived from autoX racing. Not something you'd want to do in any SUV. The difference in the pavement just proved to be the straw that broke the camel's back.
The Liberty has lifted wheels in other tests, but no one else has reproduced the rollover. Even with the same driver and course, the accident happened only once. Several runs were made on the same track. Could've been driver error as much as anything else. I wouldn't draw any conclusions, yet.
1). Can someone explain how CR-V distributes its torgue between its front wheels and rear ones, 100%-0%, or 90%-10% during normal driving conditions? What is the maximum torgue distribution to the rear during a slip detection? How is CR-V's real time AWD compared to 50-50 torgue distribution found in Subaru, which one is better?
2). What the maximum speed of the new CR-V? The older version has about 100 MPH, relative low compared to other miniSUVs and similar sized engines found in other Hondas. Does it contribute to its sluggish accelarations in the 60-70 MPH range often found and complained aobut?
How is the torque split? 100% TO 0%. The CR-V is a front driver until there is slippage.
How does it compare to a Soob and which is better? Depends on what you consider better. If you want max power distribution to the wheels, then the Soob is better. If you are going to be driving across a frozen lake every day, then get the Soob. No question.
However, as a system, RT4WD is more fuel efficient. The '02 CR-V and Soob get about the same MPG rating with similar engine power, but the CR-V's engine is pulling from 200 to 300 lbs more weight, is less aerodynamic, and is geared lower. It's likely that also gets more power to the wheels because of fewer complications in the drivetrain. If the CR-V had a full time AWD system, then it might be more slugish and less efficient.
Basically, it depends on how you are going to use it. I have never had a problem with the RT4WD CR-V, but if you feel that you'll need all four wheels churning 24/7 every day of the year, then get the Soob. IMHO, you can't go wrong with either.
Max speed? I hope this isn't why you want a good AWD system! Actually, the CR-V's top speed of 104-108 mph is pretty average for most mini-utes. Top speed has more to do with horsepower, gearing, and aerodynamics. 0-60 times are a different kind of test. While it's mostly hp and gearing again, we're only talking about gears 1, 2, and maybe one second of gear 3. Torque is a bigger factor.
Thanks for the analysis. I also tested the imprezas. 2.5 RS felt very slugish but WRX was perfectly fine. I guess WRX simply has way too much power to pull its tiny weight fast even on all 4 wheels.
CR-V is a fair combination of fuel efficiency and 4wd people demands for an SUV.
Will buy one when dealers sell them at $250 above invoice w/o any markups. May have to wait a year so. Will see.
We test drove a CRV EX and a Forester L and S today. In response to mujahedeens question about which AWD is better, the Subarus felt noticably better on the packed snow and ice around here today. The Forester S with the limited slip differential was the best. Impressive. The Honda definitely slipped around some when I floored it. ABS worked well on all 3. Here is my analysis of the 3 vehicles:
The Honda was roomier, especially the rear seat which had lots of knee room.
I thought the Honda front seats were more comfortable, though my wife thought they were about the same.
The Subarus were more sporty in their handling, ride and power. (Not quite fair on the power since the Subies were 5 speeds and the only Honda available was an auto. Still, I was expecting the Honda to have more power than it did. Definitely seemed weaker.)
The Honda ride might have been better (or maybe it was the seats.)
The Honda has very poor visibility out the rear and right side. It helps to take out the center rear head rest, but the rear window is too high and the rear side windows are too small.
We drove a CRV with the Brown interior, which we liked, contrary to what others have said. Each to his own.
As mentioned above, the Subaru's AWD definitely seemed superior in the ice and packed snow, even the L model which had the same tires as the CRV.
hi darkfudge---- the lease payment you received seems very good....just some things for you to know though...although you didn t pay a bank fee up front --american honda has an acquistion fee of $550 which is rolled into the pmt...also by adding .001 to your money factor the security deposit can be waived....a way to calculate your interest your paying is to take the money factor and multiply it by 2400. if you would like to give me some specifics i could help you see if you got a really good deal or not....i would need to know the model crv leased, the gross capitalized cost, the money factor used to calculate your payment and the amount of sales tax your state charges...some good things about going with the american honda lease is it does include gap insurance with the acquistion fee, and a no wear and tear clause up to 1500 dollars, and no dispostion fee(a cost you pay to give the car back to the bank. if you or anyone else has questions about leasing i would be glad to help explain...as was said earlier leasing is not for everyone, but can be a nice alternative if you do your homework.
Does anyone else here have the 2002 CR-V "brochure" available at Honda dealerships? I was flipping through one and I thought I saw somewhere that the CR-V was consider a LEV - low emission vehicle. However, I'm 99.999999999... percent sure that I misread the brochure and it was only extremely wishful thinking on my part. I do want to confirm the 2002's emission status one way or the other.
After you get through laughing... does anyone know if the 2002 CR-V has lower emission than the previous generation?
Honda claims the 2002 CR-V is a LEV-2 vehicle, i.e., is compliant with the next generation of Low Emission Vehicles. This is because of the new variable intake timing which allows them to optimise valve overlap timing. It is not a ULEV (ultra low emission) which a lot of Toyotas are (which is reflected in Toyota's impressive mileage numbers on a lot of their vehicles).
varmit: as for top speed Car and Driver claimed 109 mph which was the governed speed, i.e., they hit this in both 4th and 5th gear in the manual transmission model.
Emissions are a funny thing. Honda has recently achieved particluarly low ratings with the use of a new compound in the exhaust system. It was first introduced along with i-VTEC in the Honda Stream (not available in N. America). Dunno if they used the same technology or not.
The '02 CR-V is considerably more eco-friendly than the '96-01 models. The '02 is a Tier 2 LEV. These regulations will go into effect in 2004 and last through 2010. The Tier 2 standards are similar to the Tier one regulations, but have lower tolerances for PM and NOx.
These are the ratings for Tier 1 (current standards). Sorry about the formatting, but there are page width restrictions that make this difficult.
LEV 50,000 miles 5 years
NMOG = 0.075
CO = 3.4
NOx = 0.2
PM = -
HCHO = 0.015
LEV 120,000 miles 11 years
NMOG = 0.090
CO = 4.2
NOx = 0.3
PM = 0.08
HCHO = 0.018
ULEV 50,000 miles 5 years
NMOG = 0.040
CO = 1.7
NOx = 0.2
PM = -
HCHO = 0.008
ULEV 120,000 miles 11 years
NMOG = 0.055
CO = 2.1
NOx = 0.3
PM = 0.04
HCHO = 0.011
A Tier 2 LEV falls between the current standards for LEV and ULEV. The biggest change in the standards is that larger vehicles must meet the same criteria as smaller passenger cars. Note that LEV-2 standards are lower than both the LEV and ULEV standards from Tier 1, but only in the categories of NOx and PM. Otherwise they are pretty much the same as the current LEV.
LEV 50,000 miles 5 years
NMOG = 0.075
CO = 3.4
NOx = 0.05
PM = -
HCHO = 0.015
LEV 120,000 miles 11 years
NMOG = 0.090
CO = 4.2
NOx = 0.07
PM = 0.01
HCHO = 0.018
If you're wondering how I got to be such an emissions egghead, try this link.
I'm new here. Just wanted to comment on how useful the observations and comments made here. Been comparing two similar priced suv's. The Highlander had more room, the bigger tires, a spare that hid away inside, an auto shifter that didn't block anything, and a trunk that smoothly opened up. For about the same wheelbarrow of cash the 02 loaded CRV looks more stylish especially in leather, 4 wheel drive, eye opening cool dash, sliding rear seats, and plastic trim that runs around the wheel wells and and under the running board.
The Toyota was the winner for me until test drive time - the vehicle spun its front wheel drive wheels in the dealers lot on slight icy section. Anyone have any info. on the open section in the wheel wheels on CRV?
I've read that the old engine was a derivative of the defunct Integra's, and if you wander over to the 2001 cars section, you'll see similar emissions numbers for the 'Teg.
Thanks for the info! I thought for sure I was a candidate for the looney bin - I mean, a low emission suv? Now, I don't feel so silly. I really appreciate the help.
Given this information, I'm going to give the CR-V a much closer look. In the past I've felt a little guilty about considering an SUV because of the pollution and bad mileage. I'm somewhat relieved. Besides, the CR-V (on paper, at least) gets better mileage than my 12 year old 4 cylinder Accord.
While browsing the EPA rankings, keep in mind that while the overall "star ratings" are only comparable within a class, the emissions ratings are on the same scale regardless of vehicle type. This means that with a rating of 8, the CR-V now has better emissions than any 50-state Accord or Civic. (Add California emissions, however, and the cars each score a 10.)
I saw my first '02 on the road today. Had seen them at the dealer but when it was out on the road it looked so much more substantial than the 1G. It looks, for lack of a better term, muscular (I guess they were going for the male market).
I would seriously consider it but won't pay MSRP. Hopefully my 12 year old Honda will keep going for the next year (knock on wood). If anyone knows a dealer in the Chicago area I should check out let me know, otherwise it will be next spring or summer when I will seriously look.
Hi folks, I am new to this Board, and am looking hard at the new CR-V. I was at the grand "launch event last night here in Ottawa, and had the chance to test drive it last Saturday. I am very impressed. We plan to move from a Dodge Caravan to the CR-V some time within the next 12 months, and it is truly wonderful to have the opportunity to use this board and get all this information before buying. As the Chrysler CEO was heard to say (more or less), "the era of the uninformed buyer is over".
I too have a concern about the hole in the wheel wells. The redesigned suspension seems to require it, as parts of it stick out past the engine compartment into the wheel wells. It seems hard to imagine that the Honda engineers didn't think this through, but my gut feel is that this may be a problem. I noticed, however, that the redesigned Civic has the same "feature", and it has been around for 2 years so far. Has anybody heard of this being a problem for the Civics? I will snoop around the Civic boards to see if it is mentioned, and will report back anything I find out.
varmit: so reliably reliable cars are less reliable because reliably unreliable cars are not less reliable, and that's from a reliable source? I'm confused! ;-)
I was just noting that the Civic got an "average" rating, after years and years of consistenly above average numbers, including for first-year cars.
Apatia - No, you're not nuts. Honda is well known for being a "green" company. The MDX is acutally a ULEV in its class. The S2000 sports car is also an LEV. How many sports car nuts do think are concerned with emissions? So why not an SUV fan, right! While the previous gen CR-V was not a stellar emissions performer, the engine was based on an old design. Back in its day, when that design was new, it was considered to be decent. How far we have come.
Sorry Juice. I wasn't criticizing you, I'm just curious about the comparison.
I have concerns about comparisons between two cars if one is the first MY of a design and the other is a the last MY of the previous design. Obviously, the manufacturer has had time to identify and work out whatever kinks they might find. That's if we are comparing car to car. Making a blanket statement about the designs would be premature. Not statistically wrong, but not a true measure of each design.
However, if we are comparing some of the other numbers that CR reports on, we can end up with a different kind of skewed statistic. CR often publishes a percentage for each vehicle, based on the industry average. But, since the industry average is constantly changing, it would be hard to compare the percentage for today's first MY Civic against the pecentage for last gen's first MY.
I agree that "average" is much better today than it was even a few years ago, and yes, first year models tend to be relatively problematic. I guess it's harder to stay on top of the mountain vs. just getting there.
The Outback dipped down to "average" for the first year, but has since recovered, so it's likely the Civic could, too.
I'm interested in your tire swap.....did you do it through the dealer or after you bought the car? did you upgrade the wheels to aftermarket as well? how are they in terms of looks, noise, roadholding etc. If you are able to post some pix, i'd be interested in how they look (ie do they fill out the wheel wells any better?) Thanks.
FWIW, I had the exact same tires (Bridgestone Desert Deulers 205/70R15) on my Forester and got a Plus One, and took plenty of before/after photos if you'd like to have a peek here.
215/60R16 is the closest to your stock diameter, but I wanted a wider tire so I went with 225s (CR-V should have enough clearance for this). It's wider and a bit taller, plus there is less sidewall deflection so effectively I ended up with more ground clearance.
My aftermarket wheels were offset so that each wheel lies 15mm farther outward, effectively giving me a 30mm wider track. Handling was greatly improved, mostly due to the better tire, and the wider track offsets the extra height in terms of handling balance.
Strongly recommended, and yes they visually fill up the wheel wells far better than the stock wheels did.
the new owner wanted as few miles on the car as possible. Had a friend who worked for a chevy dealer some years back when the corvette was sold as an official pace car for Indy (I forget what year). The guy was waiting for his car to be delivered with his own ro-ro. They rolled his off the dealers truck and he rolled it right onto his own truck. Collectors.
You could also 215/65/15 on the stock wheels and get a wider than stock tire with the same (very close) diameter. JM2cents
Just ordered my new 2002 EX for 22500, including front mud guards and the security system. I think i got a good deal. Without options it waould have been 22250 or 500 under MSRP. What is invoice anyone. i thought i read 21K somewhere.
I have been dealing with a large privately owned tire dealer located in my area for years. He has always been willing to swap for original equipment tires as long as I don't put more than 35-50 miles on them before the swap. I usually order the new tires at least a week to 10 days before the swap, and then I drive over from the dealership the Same day I pick up my new car to keep the mileage to a minimum. It's extremely rare that I will be happy with any original equipment tire, generally because most manufacturers cheap out when it comes to tires. The Yokohamas that I mounted are light years ahead in every aspect (wet & dry performance, i.e.) than the Bridgestones that were standard on the EX. The ride is quieter, softer, and the feel through the steering wheel is much more precise. The OE tires felt like they were rolling under during sharper turns, and the new tires feel like the CRV is on rails. They don't fill out the wheel wells any more than the OE tires did because the overall height is about the same. They do appear substantially WIDER though. The main problem with fitting a larger tire on the standard EX wheel is that it is only 6" wide. If it were 6.5" wide, I could have fit many more sizes of tire. I did not change the wheel to a larger size because of potential speedometer and warranty problems. I don't have any photos yet but I might in the future.
I've place a deposit on a 2002 EX at a local Chicago dealer. I'm waiting for delivery of the next shipment (hopefully mid-December). I'm pleased with the deal which is well below MSRP but am reluctant to post anything until it is finalized. Guess I won't truly believe this until it's complete. I'd be willing to share the information with you (or others) through e-mail if you're interested (d-kerbow@uchicago.edu)
Comments
I told him today that I may know someone else who was interested & he said to pass his info to you. He did say he is selling closer to sticker since, but he will try to help you out. In addition to the car itself, I did get some add-ons, so perhaps that was where he made back some of his money.
- The 3.0L Escape definitely has more power and you can really feel it.
- The auto tranny in the CR-V is smooth but it seems they programmed it not to downshift as much. I guess this was done to eliminate annoying downshifts but it seemed sometimes it needed to downshift when it didn't. This re-affirmed my desire for a 5 spd MT.
- Brakes did not seem as strong as the Escape's, although I think this is a pad material issue as Escapes are constantly covered with brake dust.
- Handling seemed similar although the Escape felt more "lively".
- The CR-V was more smooth, more quiet, and seemed much better put together.
- The front leg room in the CR-V is just adequate for me (5' 10"), much less than the Escape's.
- The rear leg room in the CR-V is more which seems to be the trade-off Honda made.
- Overall space seems a tad larger everywhere in the CR-V.
- The rear seat arrangement in the CR-V smokes the Escape's.
In the end the CR-V was not as "fun" to drive as the Escape. However, the CR-V seemed like a much better built vehicle. Also, the CR-V is more car-like which is actually what I want. The EPA listed mileage is better in the CR-V, and early posts here indicated that the CR-V is at least as good as the EPA numbers in real life. In the end I am getting the CR-V. The Escape is more fun to drive, but I think CR-V will be more fun to own.
This link should get you to the page for the subwoofer.
Alex - That shows a sub for the '02. I think Slugline was interested because you remarked about a sub for the "old CR-V".
Thanks!!!
Here is the link to that site if anyone is interested.
http://199.105.105.110/carsearch.asp?VehicleType=CRV
Welcome to the forum Cqphil.
1. CRV is generally more attractive
2. Hyundai's are getting better, but Honda's are generally more reliable and will give you FAR better resale value down the road.
3. There are more Honda dealers to shop around or in case you repairs.
The Santa Fe will have more options for the same money. It also has considerably more cargo space. The fact that it offers a V-6 is moot. The extra 500 lbs slow it down. Unless you plan on towing, the V6 won't mean a thing. The warranty is the best, but I *think* it still only covers the drivetrain.
While the CR-V offers less equipment, the things that are standard are less likely to break. Expect better mpg, better crash safety, and lower emissions. Neither one of these buggies is an off-roader.
I would also add the Saturn VUE to your list of possibles.
The cons include "worse than average" reliability, according to CR, relatively poor gas mileage, and likely bad resale value. If it breaks a lot you still have the hassle of going to the dealer to get things fixed.
The styling is polarizing. My little brother (16) loves it, but I kind of think it looks like an angry Pikachu. He likes Pokemon so that explains it!
Honda really ought to offer a better warranty. Reliability is great, so think about it - how much would it really cost them? Toyota recently extended theirs, so Honda ought to match it. It's extra piece of mind.
The CR-V has been solid, but I'm sure the 1999 Odyssey owners with bum transmissions wished the powertrain warranty had not expired at 36k miles. Many buyers go ahead and factor an extra $1000 in the price for a longer warranty.
The new Civic isn't as reliable as the previous generation, so time will tell if the new CR-V suffers the same fate. I think it'll still be better than average.
Pretty wild Liberty rollover story. I think Jeep needs to take another look at that suspension. Perhaps it's tuned too aggressively, or the tires are too wide, but they really ought to skid before they tip onto 2 wheels or roll.
-juice
Bob
My understanding of DC's explanation was that the culprit was the technique of driving it hard between cones and suddenly braking to make the turn. AW even remarked that the technique was derived from autoX racing. Not something you'd want to do in any SUV. The difference in the pavement just proved to be the straw that broke the camel's back.
The Liberty has lifted wheels in other tests, but no one else has reproduced the rollover. Even with the same driver and course, the accident happened only once. Several runs were made on the same track. Could've been driver error as much as anything else. I wouldn't draw any conclusions, yet.
2). What the maximum speed of the new CR-V? The older version has about 100 MPH, relative low compared to other miniSUVs and similar sized engines found in other Hondas. Does it contribute to its sluggish accelarations in the 60-70 MPH range often found and complained aobut?
Thanks!
How does it compare to a Soob and which is better? Depends on what you consider better. If you want max power distribution to the wheels, then the Soob is better. If you are going to be driving across a frozen lake every day, then get the Soob. No question.
However, as a system, RT4WD is more fuel efficient. The '02 CR-V and Soob get about the same MPG rating with similar engine power, but the CR-V's engine is pulling from 200 to 300 lbs more weight, is less aerodynamic, and is geared lower. It's likely that also gets more power to the wheels because of fewer complications in the drivetrain. If the CR-V had a full time AWD system, then it might be more slugish and less efficient.
Basically, it depends on how you are going to use it. I have never had a problem with the RT4WD CR-V, but if you feel that you'll need all four wheels churning 24/7 every day of the year, then get the Soob. IMHO, you can't go wrong with either.
Max speed? I hope this isn't why you want a good AWD system!
CR-V is a fair combination of fuel efficiency and 4wd people demands for an SUV.
Will buy one when dealers sell them at $250 above invoice w/o any markups. May have to wait a year so. Will see.
The Honda was roomier, especially the rear seat which had lots of knee room.
I thought the Honda front seats were more comfortable, though my wife thought they were about the same.
The Subarus were more sporty in their handling, ride and power. (Not quite fair on the power since the Subies were 5 speeds and the only Honda available was an auto. Still, I was expecting the Honda to have more power than it did. Definitely seemed weaker.)
The Honda ride might have been better (or maybe it was the seats.)
The Honda has very poor visibility out the rear and right side. It helps to take out the center rear head rest, but the rear window is too high and the rear side windows are too small.
We drove a CRV with the Brown interior, which we liked, contrary to what others have said. Each to his own.
As mentioned above, the Subaru's AWD definitely seemed superior in the ice and packed snow, even the L model which had the same tires as the CRV.
Overall, they were all nice in different ways.
the lease payment you received seems very good....just some things for you to know though...although you didn t pay a bank fee up front --american honda has an acquistion fee of $550 which is rolled into the pmt...also by adding .001 to your money factor the security deposit can be waived....a way to calculate your interest your paying is to take the money factor and multiply it by 2400. if you would like to give me some specifics i could help you see if you got a really good deal or not....i would need to know the model crv leased, the gross capitalized cost, the money factor used to calculate your payment and the amount of sales tax your state charges...some good things about going with the american honda lease is it does include gap insurance with the acquistion fee, and a no wear and tear clause up to 1500 dollars, and no dispostion fee(a cost you pay to give the car back to the bank. if you or anyone else has questions about leasing i would be glad to help explain...as was said earlier leasing is not for everyone, but can be a nice alternative if you do your homework.
I just sent you an email with the info on the dealer that I bought the 2002 EX from. Let us know how it goes for you.
Does anyone else here have the 2002 CR-V "brochure" available at Honda dealerships? I was flipping through one and I thought I saw somewhere that the CR-V was consider a LEV - low emission vehicle. However, I'm 99.999999999... percent sure that I misread the brochure and it was only extremely wishful thinking on my part. I do want to confirm the 2002's emission status one way or the other.
After you get through laughing... does anyone know if the 2002 CR-V has lower emission than the previous generation?
varmit: as for top speed Car and Driver claimed 109 mph which was the governed speed, i.e., they hit this in both 4th and 5th gear in the manual transmission model.
i forgot something-- i will also need to know the residual percentage used in calculating your lease. thanks. magickman42
The '02 CR-V is considerably more eco-friendly than the '96-01 models. The '02 is a Tier 2 LEV. These regulations will go into effect in 2004 and last through 2010. The Tier 2 standards are similar to the Tier one regulations, but have lower tolerances for PM and NOx.
These are the ratings for Tier 1 (current standards). Sorry about the formatting, but there are page width restrictions that make this difficult.
LEV 50,000 miles 5 years
NMOG = 0.075
CO = 3.4
NOx = 0.2
PM = -
HCHO = 0.015
LEV 120,000 miles 11 years
NMOG = 0.090
CO = 4.2
NOx = 0.3
PM = 0.08
HCHO = 0.018
ULEV 50,000 miles 5 years
NMOG = 0.040
CO = 1.7
NOx = 0.2
PM = -
HCHO = 0.008
ULEV 120,000 miles 11 years
NMOG = 0.055
CO = 2.1
NOx = 0.3
PM = 0.04
HCHO = 0.011
A Tier 2 LEV falls between the current standards for LEV and ULEV. The biggest change in the standards is that larger vehicles must meet the same criteria as smaller passenger cars. Note that LEV-2 standards are lower than both the LEV and ULEV standards from Tier 1, but only in the categories of NOx and PM. Otherwise they are pretty much the same as the current LEV.
LEV 50,000 miles 5 years
NMOG = 0.075
CO = 3.4
NOx = 0.05
PM = -
HCHO = 0.015
LEV 120,000 miles 11 years
NMOG = 0.090
CO = 4.2
NOx = 0.07
PM = 0.01
HCHO = 0.018
If you're wondering how I got to be such an emissions egghead, try this link.
The Toyota was the winner for me until test drive time - the vehicle spun its front wheel drive wheels in the dealers lot on slight icy section. Anyone have any info. on the open section in the wheel wheels on CRV?
http://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/suv-02.htm
The new model is a giant leap over the previous generation, which was actually in the bottom tier of its peer group:
http://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/suv-01.htm
I've read that the old engine was a derivative of the defunct Integra's, and if you wander over to the 2001 cars section, you'll see similar emissions numbers for the 'Teg.
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SUVs
Given this information, I'm going to give the CR-V a much closer look. In the past I've felt a little guilty about considering an SUV because of the pollution and bad mileage. I'm somewhat relieved. Besides, the CR-V (on paper, at least) gets better mileage than my 12 year old 4 cylinder Accord.
I would seriously consider it but won't pay MSRP. Hopefully my 12 year old Honda will keep going for the next year (knock on wood). If anyone knows a dealer in the Chicago area I should check out let me know, otherwise it will be next spring or summer when I will seriously look.
I too have a concern about the hole in the wheel wells. The redesigned suspension seems to require it, as parts of it stick out past the engine compartment into the wheel wells. It seems hard to imagine that the Honda engineers didn't think this through, but my gut feel is that this may be a problem. I noticed, however, that the redesigned Civic has the same "feature", and it has been around for 2 years so far. Has anybody heard of this being a problem for the Civics? I will snoop around the Civic boards to see if it is mentioned, and will report back anything I find out.
I was just noting that the Civic got an "average" rating, after years and years of consistenly above average numbers, including for first-year cars.
Hey, that's still average, nothing bad.
-juice
I have concerns about comparisons between two cars if one is the first MY of a design and the other is a the last MY of the previous design. Obviously, the manufacturer has had time to identify and work out whatever kinks they might find. That's if we are comparing car to car. Making a blanket statement about the designs would be premature. Not statistically wrong, but not a true measure of each design.
However, if we are comparing some of the other numbers that CR reports on, we can end up with a different kind of skewed statistic. CR often publishes a percentage for each vehicle, based on the industry average. But, since the industry average is constantly changing, it would be hard to compare the percentage for today's first MY Civic against the pecentage for last gen's first MY.
The Outback dipped down to "average" for the first year, but has since recovered, so it's likely the Civic could, too.
-juice
did you upgrade the wheels to aftermarket as well?
how are they in terms of looks, noise, roadholding etc. If you are able to post some pix, i'd be interested in how they look (ie do they fill out the wheel wells any better?)
Thanks.
215/60R16 is the closest to your stock diameter, but I wanted a wider tire so I went with 225s (CR-V should have enough clearance for this). It's wider and a bit taller, plus there is less sidewall deflection so effectively I ended up with more ground clearance.
My aftermarket wheels were offset so that each wheel lies 15mm farther outward, effectively giving me a 30mm wider track. Handling was greatly improved, mostly due to the better tire, and the wider track offsets the extra height in terms of handling balance.
Strongly recommended, and yes they visually fill up the wheel wells far better than the stock wheels did.
-juice
A bad sign? I dunno.
-juice
You could also 215/65/15 on the stock wheels and get a wider than stock tire with the same (very close) diameter. JM2cents
including front mud guards and the security system. I think i got a good deal.
Without options it waould have been 22250 or 500 under MSRP.
What is invoice anyone. i thought i read 21K somewhere.
The Yokohamas that I mounted are light years ahead in every aspect (wet & dry performance, i.e.) than the Bridgestones that were standard on the EX. The ride is quieter, softer, and the feel through the steering wheel is much more precise. The OE tires felt like they were rolling under during sharper turns, and the new tires feel like the CRV is on rails. They don't fill out the wheel wells any more than the OE tires did because the overall height is about the same. They do appear substantially WIDER though. The main problem with fitting a larger tire on the standard EX wheel is that it is only 6" wide. If it were 6.5" wide, I could have fit many more sizes of tire. I did not change the wheel to a larger size because of potential speedometer and warranty problems. I don't have any photos yet but I might in the future.
$20,370.00 + 440 transportation = $20,810.00.
you can look it up on this web site
http://199.105.105.110/carsearch.asp?RecordCnt=15&NumberRecords=27&VehicleType=CRV