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Domestics, Germans Fare Poorly In Latest CU Survey
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My personal opinion is that while the "gap" is not all that wide, that yes indeed the American auto industry has not been in the forefront of innovation for at least the last 35 years. **
It's possible that along with better service, and better warranties, a couple of "coups" in the technology department wouldn't hurt the American auto industry at all.
** a few examples are fuel injection, AWD passenger cars (not 4X4), effective turbocharging, innovative styling, hybrids, fuel economy, 6 speed automatics, paddle-shifting, stability controls, back up cameras, bluetooth).
What a joke. You don't have the inside scoop here.
Nowadays consumers place a lot of status on having the "latest technology" and it's my suspicion that the Japanese and Germans gain a lot of street cred based on a reputation for being "ahead" of the domestics technically (whether this is real or imagined, there it is).
And there it isn't. consumers want comfort, mpg, safety, power, reliability, entertainment, handling, and after all that and price, then comes gagetry. Status comes from how much you spent, not how much you got or how much tech. Maybe 2% of the people who see you in your car knows what tech gagetry is in it. from the outside, looks, size, power, sound are the key determinants of how desirable your car is. How many will ever notice your auto dimming mirrors or mirrors that tilt for backing up?
My personal opinion is that while the "gap" is not all that wide, that yes indeed the American auto industry has not been in the forefront of innovation for at least the last 35 years. **
Your entitled to your opinion. I disagree after working in the innovative Amer auto industry for 11 years. There's a gap in both directions. America has hundreds of patents on features only their cars have. Likewise for Japan.
It's possible that along with better service, and better warranties, a couple of "coups" in the technology department wouldn't hurt the American auto industry at all.
Delphi bought Lucas, a leader in DIG** a few examples are fuel injection, AWD passenger cars (not 4X4) like the Fusion?, effective turbocharging (Diesels making up what, 1% of all cars?), innovative styling (Sky), hybrids(need $7 gallon gas to pan out), fuel economy (I got 45 mpg in a Cavalier and 28mpg in a 3600 lb car), 6 speed automatics(what for? engine lacks torque?), paddle-shifting( I'd buy a manual if I want to shift), stability controls (useful since one American dies in every 200 million vehicle miles traveled), back up cameras(really can't turn head?), bluetooth (a new cause of accidents)).
fuel injection? Nope. OHC engines? nope. Turbocharging? Nope. AWD systems? nope. 5 speed manual transmissions? nope. 6-speed manual transmissions? nope. 6 speed automatic tranmissions? nope. active suspension? nope. Stability controls? nope. Variable valve timing? nope.
Possible American innovations? Maybe air bags. That's pretty major. Heads-up display...debatable significance. ABS? not sure but I know the Jensen Healey FF had it first--not mass produced though, so maybe that's an American first...need to research that.
I do see pushrod engines though, and to be fair, they work pretty darn well, too. But about as new as 1912.
Air Conditioned Seats were SAAB although they were owned by GM at the time so I guess that one counts.
OBDII????? You can't count that it was gov't mandated everyone had to have it in 1996.
Superchargers have been around since WWII.
I am pretty sure Traction Control came on MB cars long before any domestic. I wouldn't brag about the plastics in engines as the early attempts of doing that didn't turn out so well.
I think self-leveling suspension goes to Citroen and traction control to Mercedes Benz (Pontiac was the first American car with it in early 1970s as I recall).
So that leaves you with the coolant, the ac seats, int wipers, sat radio, etc. As you say----GADGETS! (not that gadgets are bad per se...)
You are right about lock-up converters (Packard, 1955) and you missed......cruise control!! Definitely an American invention.
and Corvette's magna-ride or whatever they call it. That's pretty slick.
So yeah, there have been a few innovations, but not that much compared to the imports. It's not what you'd expect from the American reputation for innovation and technical dominance.
I think the American auto industry basically went to sleep from 1965--1985 or so, staggered back to life 1985-1995, and right around OBDII realized it had better do something good again.
But hey, the Citroen didn't "level" the suspension, that's true, so technically you are correct. Score one American.
The question is, which makes the greater impression. Obviously Citroen, as the '55 CIT was voted by world auto journalists as one of the most significantly innovative cars of the 20th century.
Packard's lock-up converter was highly significant however, for which it was rewarded by going bankrupt. Not a sexy item I guess but you see it in almost every car today!
Magnaride was developed by Delphi but I don't remember if it was before or after GM sold the company off.
It is a very slick system though.
Oh, well. One black mark on a 99 Camry and I can confirm lemko's thought - once you put $5K in a car you are going to keep it a while.
But these french poodle alloy engines we have today...they bend like Beckham the minute they get hot.
I mentioned several items. You called them gadgets because they were not foreign. You mentioned transmissions, transmissions, transmissions, turbochargers. Turbochargers have sucked for 20 years. 6th gear is a gadget. How much credit do you want for an extra transmission gear. Like I said, not enough Torque in the engine mated to the tranny?
Huh? If you're buying with zero down and no trade, a $500 a month payment doesn't get you all that much car. That's assuming you stick with the old fashion traditional 36-month loan :P I find it depressing that the length of new car loans keeps getting stretched longer and longer. Now I believe you can even get a 96-month loan! :sick:
-Frank
The crunched numbers:
loan amt 36 mo pmt
19000 580
18000 550
17000 519
16000 489
can you buy anything besides an aveo for under 16k out the door new?
In what lab could you manage to pull that off.
When did DOD come out anyway 2005 or 2006?
A 2005 2WD durango with out DOD gets 12/17 and 14 combined on the new EPA ratings.
A 2006 2wd Durango with DOD gets 13/19 and 15 combined on the new EPA ratings.
Please show me a car that gets 30-40 percent better mileage with DOD or variable displacement.
I am not saying that it is bad technology but it is not nearly as good as you are saying it is.
While the SRX is available with magnetic ride, the 20 inch wheels require regular shocks.
The 6-speed auto is actually quite purposeful. Read here for advantages:
http://www.audiworld.com/news/00/zf/content.shtml
And they handle up to 440 ft/lbs of torque, so the torque argument doesn't really hold up IMO.
Innovation does not mean "complexity" in my book at any rate...the two aren't synonymous.
It's interesting, isn't it, that the "tech leaders" in the GM lineup, Cadillac and Corvette, are doing great?
But I think you have a good point about GM not being much of a leader in tech. They are just getting the six speed automatics in production. I will say that mine is very smooth, and with the manual mode, is much easier to downshift than the Seville 4-speed was. I think that GM's big problem is going to be fuel consumption. With high priced fuel, people will be looking for economy, and Toyota's Prius is where GM needs to be. The Volt, if it really does what they are projecting, may take the wind out of Toyota sails, but I would not bet on it quite yet.
i said car not durango
i said it bumps up mileage. i didnt say city or combined. dont you know that dod only kicks in during steady cruising. and that is where it......30-40%. what mileage increase does 6th gear give a car? gm attacks with 2:1 idea. there is no better idea than that.
He is talking about his E55 as in Mercedes.
As to your Impala...
A Jaguar XJ will do that all day long if not better.
link title
The Impala gets the best MPG rating with the smallest engine, 28 MPG highway, while the DOD V8 is rated 24 MPG. The real question is what will a driver actually get if they take it easy. As I pointed out before, Motor Week actually did an experiment like this with the Chyrsler 300C and the lead footed driver got 17, while the other driver got 24. The 300C is rated (new) 23 MPG highway.
The new ratings for a 1987 928 is 21 MPG highway.
That's not good to mess with the heritage IMO.
See, not much difference
Here is one with a XJR thrown in
A non-supercharged Jag gets one better city and three better highway mileage. All using the 2007 EPA specs of course.
I like the 17mpg city claim for my car...I wish I got that! I drive a little immaturely. But I can get the 24mpg with little effort.
It's not anyone else's fault that this car has a 4 speed. I own a 1964 car with a 4 speed auto...