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GM estimates 8 kilowatt-hours of electricity usage for a full recharge. 8 kwh x 6 cents / kwh = $0.48.
Electricity is far cheaper where you are. I pay about 21 cents per kWh.
I also have an above normal commute (about 130 miles/day currently, although that is only temporary). The Volt clearly would not work for me compared to the Prius, Insight, TDI Jetta, etc., with or without the Volt's tax credit.
That said, I'm not trying to badmouth the Volt - I think it's a good idea for a lot of people. But that doesn't justify the outlandish 230 mpg claim - you have to account for all the energy inputs, not just one type, otherwise you're comparing apples and iguanas.
The only car companies paying profits to the US are those that are PROFITABLE, and that certainly has not been GM for a long time. Try Honda and Toyota. Worse, GM has sucked at least $100 out of your pocket and mine, our kids, etc. as well in the form of loans which you may never see again.
I wonder how the Volt will perform going up mountain passes once the 40 miles are up? Probably not very well. What do you want for $40K? With some drivers it may make some sense.
It's not, with the Volt.
It will ALWAYS have 100% of the torque available at ALL TIMES. At 150 HP rating, that electric motor will run that car just fine under any circumstances.
It will run mountain passes like a champ.
Disagree - if the battery is already discharged and you are climbing a hill, the MAXIMUM power you can obtain is the instantaneous power output of the ICE. And that assumes there is no loss of efficiency in the conversion to electricity, which is not the case.
Someone needs to do some homework.....:)
From a GM press release:
(Editor’s Note: This is applicable for North America)
The Chevrolet Volt is an Extended-Range Electric Vehicle. It uses Voltec - GM’s electric propulsion system - to drive the car at all times and speeds. The Voltec electric propulsion system is made up of a 16-kWh battery, an electric drive unit, and a four-cylinder engine generator of electricity. Voltec enables up to 40 miles of gas- and emissions-free electric driving with extended-range capability of more than 300 miles.
The Chevrolet Volt uses electricity as its primary source of energy to drive the car. There are two modes of operation – Electric and Extended-Range. In both modes, the Volt is propelled by an electric drive unit. The electric drive unit converts electrical energy into mechanical energy to drive the front wheels. It also delivers instant torque, the equivalent of 150 horsepower and a top speed of 100 mph. There is no compromise in vehicle performance in either mode of operation.
Electric Mode:
In Electric mode, the Volt will not use gasoline or produce tailpipe emissions. During this primary mode, the Volt is powered by electrical energy stored in its T-shaped lithium-ion battery. The Volt can operate in this mode for up to 40 miles until the battery has reached a low energy level.
Extended-Range Mode:
When the battery’s energy is depleted, the Volt seamlessly switches to Extended-Range mode. In this secondary mode, electricity needed to power the vehicle is created on-board by a flex-fuel powered engine-generator. This mode of operation extends the total range of the Volt for hundreds of additional miles, until the vehicle can be refueled or plugged in to recharge the battery.
The engine-generator has the capability to provide the level of electrical power that the Volt needs for the most frequent maneuvers. However, the battery will continue to generate some power and work together with the engine-generator to provide peak performance when it's required, such as driving up a steep incline or for high acceleration maneuvers. The engine-generator will then continue to provide electricity to power the vehicle and simultaneously return some energy to the battery to replenish and maintain a low energy level. The battery will not be recharged to a “full” state by the engine-generator.
Contrary to a conventional battery-electric vehicle, the extended-range mode eliminates “range anxiety,” giving the confidence and peace of mind that the driver will not be stranded by a depleted battery.
Regenerative Braking:
During both modes of operation, energy is captured during braking, converted into electricity and stored in the battery. This process of capturing energy is called regenerative braking. Regenerative braking increases the overall efficiency of the vehicle.
Charging:
The Chevrolet Volt can be recharged by plugging its specially designed power cord into a standard household 120V outlet or use 240v for charging. Charging begins automatically. The Volt’s charging technology enables the battery to be charged in less than three hours on a 240v or about eight hours from a 120v outlet. Charge times are reduced if the battery has not been fully depleted. At a cost of about 80 cents per day (10 cents per kWh) for a full charge that will deliver up to 40 miles of electric driving, GM estimates that the Volt will be less expensive to recharge than purchasing a cup of your favorite coffee. Charging the Volt about once daily will consume less electric energy annually than the average home's refrigerator and freezer units.
The battery is not fully discharged, there is still a certain amount left as a buffer for hills. I wouldn't expect a Volt to be a hot rod when the engine's running but it should be adequate.
Supposedly it's a lot faster than today's hybrids under battery power. Not surprising... electric motors are torque monsters.
BTW... the electricity prices being quoted are off peak, middle of the night. I think Volt chargers have timers on them so you can charge when rates are cheapest.
http://www.rasertech.com/media/videos/test-drive
This Raser Hummer prototype is estimated at approximately 33-35 MPG on ICE after battery depletion.
Bill
Someone needs to do some homework.....
I'm fully aware of that. Tell me how a discharged battery, being replenished by an ICE, is going to generate MORE instantaneous power than the ICE can put out? If you are climbing that pass with a discharged battery, the ICE, through the generation of electricity, is the ONLY source of power. You cannot get more out than the ICE can produce if there is no reserve in the battery.
OK, so if the Volt battery is normally called discharged at say, 30% charge, then if you are going up a pass you still have some reserve power. But if it's a long pass (over the Rockies in CO, for example), you are climbing to 10K feet over tens of miles. So even that 30% charge is going to be used up and at some point you are down to max power the ICE can produce. It may not be a common occurrence, but there will likely be times when the vehicle is a dog in those types of situations. GM has not let anybody drive the mules on engine mode so those characteristics are unknown to the public at the current time.
We'll just have to wait for some independent road tests of the production version.
Yep, they are really going to announce any negatives to help market the vehicle's capabilities. They are too busy touting their 230 mpg to talk about any compromises.
And as mentioned, there will be a substantial tax credit so the Volt isn't $40k. Granted the Leaf will have a big tax credit as well, however again the Volt will be useful to a much larger audience than the Leaf.
I am not sure where you live. We do not get any off peak cheap rate. Only higher with the more you use. No incentive to add an EV when I am already hitting the top rate of about $.35 per KWH. Making the Volt cost about $.14 per mile on battery only. My electric utility is in the process of upgrading to Smart Meters. This question was asked:
Is SDG&E going to charge different rates for electricity based on time-of-day energy use?
SDG&E customers now pay a flat rate for their energy. There are no plans to charge customers for time-of-day billing.
My guess is with San Diego having the highest concentration of residential solar, the load could be higher at night for the utility. As more people add solar it will become more of an issue for the utilities to balance the day and night loads. They will also raise the rates to compensate for the loss of revenue. The EV option used to look good to me. It is not much value at the current electric rates. With Cap n Trade those rates will go even higher.
The leaf is a "regular EV" with all the inherent problems - i.e., cannot be taken on long trips.
The Volt can drive me 900 miles in one day.
There is a vast difference in usability.
Getting a charge from the Chevy Volt
What happens if you need access to the car's full power to get up a mountain on a long ride? For those demanding situations--in electrical terms, when the car needs more than 50 kilowatts of juice--the Volt will draw on some of the remaining stored energy in its battery pack, explained Andrew Farah, the chief vehicle engineer.
When the car dips into that "buffer," the gasoline engine acts to sustain the battery level so that it doesn't go too low, which would strain the batteries, he said. "We're operating between 30 percent and 80 percent (charge). It's important for the battery life," he said. All along, the battery can be charged with regenerative braking and during deceleration.
Holy cow, are you getting screwed!!
Where I live you can get it during the summer, you have to pay a $16 service charge.
$0.0438 - Summer price
$0.1874 - Winter price
So overall I'd pay about $0.11, Juice is a lot cheaper here in Iowa.
Were I in Cali with all that sunshine and those high rates I'd strongly consider solar panels...
"Getting a charge from the Chevy Volt"
That Volt experience sure isn't like other fuel sippers.
Sounds like it's gonna be spunky...
"The Volt will be a better car than the Leaf."
IMO, having a Leaf is like having a sports car. You don't take it on trips and need an extra car sitting around.
All you need to do is forget to plug the Leaf in or have a power outage and you're in your other car.
Were I in Cali with all that sunshine and those high rates I'd strongly consider solar panels...
CA has regulations that run our price up higher. They have mandated alternative energy by 2012 and then block the solar and wind projects. Making a catch 22 for the power companies. Then the environmental groups block the power lines that would carry the power from the desert solar farms and wind farms. Plus they will not allow the utilities to buy coal generated power. So you have cheap coal with have over regulated power. If I had your 11 cent power my last bill would be less than half. Plus our largest demand is in the summer. They are getting people to put a device on their AC so they can turn it off if the load gets too high. I expect big brother to mandate that in the near future.
Which brings us back to the Volt. How many Volt buyers in CA will be upset when the electric bill makes their gas bill seem small?
PS
Solar is still a feel good option in CA, not yet cost effective. Even though San Diego is the number one in residential solar installations. Forget wind power, your neighbors would shoot you. Even some of the solar installations in my area are eyesores.
That cannot happen. Even if you are paying an outrageous 20 cents per kwh, that's about $1.60 in electricity per day for a 40 mile Volt commute.
So unless you are driving a gas car which gets 40 mpg and gas is less than $1.60 a gallon, the Volt will never cost more to fuel than a gas-only car.
As far as solar, a company named Solar City can lease you a 4.1 kw solar system for Zero down and $58 a month. That's affordable for just about everyone in America who owns a house.
You are not paying attention. If I owned a Volt today it would be costing me 34 cents per KWH to charge. If it only allows an 8 KWH charge on the 16 KWH battery that is still as much or more than a Jetta TDI or Prius will cost to drive. You can also bet they will require road tax when they hit the ground. Making them an expensive option to drive, at least in places like CA. And we are not the highest in the nation. It would be a total non starter in Hawaii where current charges for the low end is 28 cents per KWH.
How many people work at night and would be able to use solar to charge during the day?
I entered my home on Solar City website. They estimated my savings at minus $108 per year. Looks like I would have a total loss over 15 years of $457. Solar is not ready for prime time yet. I have a huge South facing roof also. So if it will not save me money. I am not sure who it would benefit. Plus it will not charge my EV at night.
See the rates we pay in San Diego:
http://www.sdge.com/customer/rates/baselineTierExamples.shtml
They will be going up when SDG&E cannot meet the 2012 alternative energy mandate.
Like I said - 10 cents is the US average. 6 cents is the average off-peak charge.
MOST Americans will be able to drive a Volt for less than any other car on the road.
Those of us in the heartland tend to prefer plain ol' gas or diesel powertrains, as they do not require band-aids to travel several hundred miles comfortably and efficiently. Give me a TDI, or for that matter a midsize sedan with a direct-injection gas four-cylinder, and I'll outlast and outrun your Volt.
Hold on, while I double over in laughter, fall off my chair, and hyperventilate from a giggle attack....
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OK, back to business. I DO see the big picture - that picture is that our dependence on gasoline is on the way down. It cannot be stopped. It should not be stopped. The EREV Volt is another step, just as were the gasoline-electric hybrids before it.
Is the Volt the perfect car for EVERYONE? No, and that car is impossible to build. If not, we would all be driving the perfect car already.
You can only build a car to meet a certain need for a certain group.
I'm not worried about electricity rates going up - I just insulated myself from that problem by leasing a solar panel system.
For 5 months out of the year, I'm going to be feeding the grid from my roof.
Gary says, "No one has posted which states have smart meters that can lower the rates at night. "
It's not "state by state" it's "utility company by utility company." Some companies have it, others do not. I would doubt there is a valid list showing them all.
Not only that, it seems to be "by utility company by state".
And in my state, it's not even all year.
But when the off peak is in effect it's dirt, dirt cheap.
I look at the first Volts like TV's. The first ones were really expensive. People with money bought them because they were cool and made a statement. Regular people went to bars or looked through store windows, waiting for them to become affordable.
Like every other electrical gizmo they started getting cheaper. Eventually TV killed the radio star and so electric cars will also take over. It's just a matter of time... this is the dawn of a revolution.
I do not know why people are still ignorant about grid-tied solar. You do not
need to charge at night using solar. You generate during the day, feed that
power to the utility company to accumulate credits and then draw that credit
at night, At 8kwh and 300 days/per year if your solar panels are designed to
generate 2400KwH over and above your residential needs, you charge the Volt
for free. With residential time of use metering where the utility company pays
you more during peak day hours between 12-6 you may only need to generate
about 2000KWH extra throughout the year. In my area (silicon valley) that
translates to 1.3KW of solar capacity - current cost of that after rebates is 5K.
You can do the math - payback is 5 years, Panels are guaranteed for 25-30 yrs.
Chevy Volt heads to Pikes Peak to practice mountain climbing
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
The Karma and Volt use a similar powertrain configuration known as a series hybrid, but cars that use it are becoming more commonly known as extended range electric vehicles.
Essentially, after running in pure electric mode for a short distance - 50 miles in the case of the Karma, 40 miles in the Volt - and depleting the vehicle's battery, a small internal combustion engine kicks in to generate electricity to drive the car. Unlike a more conventional hybrid like the Ford Fusion, there is no mechanical transmission connecting the engine to the wheels.
Coincidentally, the Karma uses a 2.4 liter 4-cylinder engine sourced from General Motors for this purpose.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,547987,00.html
And what's more, Fisker is planning to build a more direct competitor to the Volt. A moderately priced sedan. Get this, they are buying an indled GM plant for production..
lGoing Back to Cali
As part of the California rollout, GM plans to make 100 Volts available to three utilities for testing. The cars will be used as fleet vehicles, and performance data will be collected via GM's OnStar in-car communications for a Department of Energy-run research program.
Financially strapped GM has a lot riding on the Chevy Volt. The car is designed to run for 40 miles on its lithium ion batteries and then use an engine-generator combination for longer rides. GM expects that most customers will do the majority of their driving on electric charge only, making the cost per mile cheaper than gas-only cars.
Even with the public excitement over electric cars, automakers are still not totally sure how consumers will adjust to the new technology and how electric components will operate in real-world conditions.
GM, as well as other automakers, plans to offer electric vehicles in certain regions that will invest in the infrastructure to support them. The California research program calls for the installation of 500 charging stations at people's homes, at businesses, and in public places.
CARB was bought by the oil companies, people loved the EV1
As long as big oil has the $ (and they do) they can and will stop any major auto company from going electric.
Who killed the electric car?
Maybe an EV could fill the NEEDS of 80% of the driving population as some claim. But I know for sure that an overpriced, limited range electric vehicle doesn't come close to filling the WANTS of 80% of the driving population.
Until there is a breakthrough in battery technology, I suppose we'll be hearing how "nefarious forces" are conspiring to keep EV's off the roads.
The volt is fine if it performs as anticipated. It is basically the cost that flumps it and other EVs of various iterations to minority status. The wild card is still 5-10 dollar gas or worse...shortages.
The EV-1 was a two seater. Volt seats 5.
The EV-1 was limited to 50-70 miles. The Volt has no "distance" limit - can be refueled and driven across the country.
They are very different cars.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Chevrolet Volt gets early release date -- ahead of Nissan Leaf competitor
By Aaron Foley |
April 21, 2010, 11:24AM
General Motors has pushed up the release date of its Chevrolet Volt electric model to October, two months before the planned release of the Nissan Leaf.
GM Chairman Edward Whitacre made the announcement during an address at a Kansas plant, where he also announced that the automaker had paid off government loans from the U.S. and Canada.
Last month, Nissan announced that the Leaf would cost around $25,000 after tax breaks -- significantly less than a $35,000 Volt. Ford has also announced an electric Focus, which is not due until next year.
Though prices may sway customers one way or another, a blogger at Tainted Green points out that since the Volt runs partially on gasoline -- as opposed to the all-electric Volt -- some customers