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Ford Taurus Fuel Pump

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  • gsc01972gsc01972 Member Posts: 6
    check engine light is on= code P0191...Symptom's are "No start but cranking has spark"...first key turn no fuel pump prime noise heard.... symptom comes and goes in any type of weather or temperatures On second crank if you turn the key to off and than turn it back to crank ( if i hear the fuel pump prime) than the car starts..but if i don't it will just crank but sometimes after i hear the pump prime and starts it stumbles like it wants to die and it does..(and sometimes it doesn't stumble) So i do this a few times making sure i hear the pump prime and if i get lucky it starts and runs fine and off i go...Once the car is running i have no problems with staling at stops,highway speeds or idle.. Symptoms appear at first start no matter how long its been sitting (5minute to 24hrs)..youtube has a real good video on this "Ford Electronic Returnless Fuel System Diagnosis (Part 1)"..did all the Diagnosis on the black box module connecters and the inertia switch and everything passed...So what the HELL is up with this car? anyone thinks it's the Fuel pump? or something else? Any feedback is appreciated
  • gsc01972gsc01972 Member Posts: 6
    edited January 2013
    .the problem was the (part number Xs2z9f972ea ) Sensor Fuel Injector Pressure on a 2000 taurus se 3.0 24v duratec
  • arctic_taurusarctic_taurus Member Posts: 9
    Wow! thanks, gsc01972. that one must have cost like a new fuel pump! :cry: If anyone has similar problem, I'd measure voltage with multimeter on the connector to the inertia switch to diagnose that thing: on 2000, the fuel pressure regulator (or "fuel pressure sensor") is an unusual electric switch feeding between PCM and a fuel pump voltage regulator which will turn up or lower the voltage to the fuel pump to control the pressure that way (instead of just letting excess gas flow through a return line back, as in older Taurus). If the voltage was present in both cases (when there's humming noise from the pump, and when not), that would be most likely be pump itself..
  • gsc01972gsc01972 Member Posts: 6
    This problem was driving me nuts.....yeah..it is costly...on E-bay around $113 NEW...don't know what it is at the dealer but im not buying it!! ill go to the junkyard and buy one for under $10..Hopefully its a good one! Yes im cheap...specially on a 13yr old car that has no selling value. On KBB it has value but on Craigslist a really nice one you can get for under $2200 in the NEW England states ....In the end i hope this helps anyone that has this kind of problem....Do it yourself and SAVE MONEY....In the age of information..
  • arctic_taurusarctic_taurus Member Posts: 9
    yeah, junkyard can be a treasury house for some parts! Taurus is a great car, 13 years isn't really an age for it..
  • jimski27jimski27 Member Posts: 1
    Purchased this car used in 2010. Currently has 57k original miles. Last summer (2012) after a 20-30 minute drive, and then parking for 5-10 minutes the car started fine, but stalled about 3-4 minutes later and would not restart. Turned over fine, but (apparently) no fuel. Tried it for nearly an hour with no success and finally called AAA. Forty five minutes later, the tow-truck driver decided to give it a try and it started fine. Drove straight to the local shop and left the car with them. Nothing on computer diagnostics and after 24 hours they couldn't reproduce the problem. Flushed the injectors to be safe. Three weeks later, the exact same thing happened. Thirty minute drive, 10 minutes in the store, and then stalled while leaving the parking lot. Tried to restart every 15-20 minutes, and after 75 minutes it started fine. Suspected a fuel problem or vapor lock (been told that a 2002 should not have vapor lock issue). Switched stations and added Heet with each full tank.

    Problem didn't reoccur till January 2013 (nearly 6 months). Now it has happened 5 times in 2 months. Three of the 5 times, it has been during the day (living in hot Florida) after a short drive, stopping for 5-10 minutes and then restarting. Always lets me drive a couple/few hundred feet before stalling. Two other times it happened after being parked at work for 6-8 hours. Waiting 70 to 90 minutes, trying every 15-20 minutes has gotten me back on the road each time.

    Happened again today, after a 1.5 mile drive, and being in store for 10 minutes. That was 15 days since the last occurrence, which has almost identical symptoms. Already replaced the fuel pump relay and thought the problem was solved, but it reoccurred after 10 days. I am prepared to bring the car to a Ford dealer and probably get the fuel pump replaced (I am really strapped for cash, otherwise I would replace this otherwise great running car). But after reading some of these posts, not sure if that will be a long term solution. The grounding issue is interesting. Anything else, like these mentioned diodes (not sure if that's in my 2002) or a fuel pressure regulator, that would cause such an intermittent problem. I "definitely" get no sound when I turn the key to on and the car won't start. As soon as I turn to On and hear the hum, I know it will start fine. Has never happened when I leave for work in the morning for the past two years. Has never stalled on the road while driving. Only as described above. Not really prepared to put the car up on jacks. When I was 25, that was a possibility, but at 57 not ready for anything like that. Still seems like an electrical problem to me.
  • gsc01972gsc01972 Member Posts: 6
    i would replace the fuel pressure regulator..its on top of the engine next or on the fuel rail so you would not need to jack the car up...Mine did the same thing....(That part new is at least $113) If you don't have the money now and you still want to drive the car and don't want to wait hours till its fitz are over...like i said...turn the key to "ON" not running the engine.. listen for the pump to turn on. If you hear the pump turn on than start the car.. your good. If you don't hear the pump then turn it to "OFF" meaning turn the key towards you all the way than turn it back to "ON" again...Repeat till you do hear the pump...There is no real wait time to "Repeat" just don't do it to fast or slow..."on" ,"off " listen, "on" ,"off " listen,"on" ,"off " listen... smooth...just like opening the front door of your house with a key...Good luck
  • sarniajacksarniajack Member Posts: 1
    hello everyone my ford taurus started running kind of rough its ok when cold but when it starts warming up the rpms go up and down a few times it sputtered and almost stalled when i was at the stop lights ohh and when i change my heat settings the rpms also go up and down i thought it might be my fuel pump i checked the valve on the fuel rail and it squirts out real good can someone please help me thankyou very much
  • drcarp3drcarp3 Member Posts: 3
    My Taurus is hard to start after it sits overnight. After it starts it runs fine, no codes etc. It starts up better after it has been running. Do you think it could be the fuel pump? I think the pressure is bleeding back into the fuel tank when it sits.
  • gsc01972gsc01972 Member Posts: 6
    i don't know its hard to guess because it could be other stuff wrong with it like old worn out spark plugs or coil block..with mine it started very slow i would start it didn't matter if it would sit or not..it would start but than it acted like it was running out of gas and die...turn off the key and back on a few time than it would stay running..finally the POS died for good and replaced the fuel pump never had a problem since..have someone turn on the key but dont run the car engine and listen for the pump to prime after it sits over night on your first try for the day. i bought my pump on ebay..autozone was $200 with the plastic housing ebay was under $60 just the pump with strainers...same brand autozone uses.. Airtex
  • drcarp3drcarp3 Member Posts: 3
    Yeah, I think I'm looking at a fuel pump change.
  • arctic_taurusarctic_taurus Member Posts: 9
    Hey drcarp3- Rather than tossing new costly parts on it, I'd rather suggest having a qualified auto tech to look into this one in a shop (make a precise and correct diagnosis). Blind guesses are highly inaccurate and disappointing thing... Hard-to-start-overnight symptom can be almost anything, e.g. a parasitic drain on your battery. Internal pump pressure leak (if any) will be a straightforward check for the good tech. You can try to build up the pressure before you start by turning the key on and off (hear that humming buzz from the pump every time) several times- without actually cranking the engine, and then see if it makes the difference when you ignite(start) the engine. Cheers
  • gsc01972gsc01972 Member Posts: 6
    hey arctic_taurus.. In a perfect world everyone would take there cars to a mechanic..But since we are in the real world not everyone has money to spend on expensive shop rates..plus with the age of information called the internet..most car problems can be resolved with a little reading and elbow grease..if i would have taken my car for that fuel pump replacement labor at the cheap shop would've of been $135 plus there part prices..Screw that !! i Spend under $60 for parts plus 2.5 hr in elbow grease.. I win!! For people that are NOT mechanically inclined..yes please take your car to a shop it's better than hurting yourself..But the DIY fight the good fight and keep labor cost to ZERO!
  • drcarp3drcarp3 Member Posts: 3
    I really not throwing parts at it. I've been dealing with this issue for a long time (years). I believe this fuel pump has an anti drain back/check valve feature that is not functioning properly. I've just been putting off biting the bullet and dropping the tank. I've done all the easy stuff.
  • arctic_taurusarctic_taurus Member Posts: 9
    edited July 2013
    ...most car problems can be resolved with a little reading and elbow grease..

    hi gsc, I have nothing against DIY approach; and only happy to know when someone was lucky enough with guessing a part and then lucky again when installing replacement correctly, the first time. But in the same real world you have mentioned, this is funny how rarely really it works to just guess right the first time; in fact, most of car's problems would be unique and guesses wrong, ending up with higher repair cost in the end.

    Yes, the check valves in pumps designed to hold pressure on the fuel rail and lines could be leaking; but also pumps' electric motors can lock up after running and then sitting; and if the hose connecting the pump to the fuel sender is leaking, replacing only the pump (not the whole assembly) won't help, and that needs another check. We don't even know if the simple cycling the key on/off helped dcarp3 make any difference. So far, it could as well be the battery (even if recently bought, its output has to be checked), or say an engine timing problem, or a throttle plate sticking in bore overnight due to varnish build-up over this car's years from PCV gasses; or even leaking injectors flooding the air-fuel mixture (hold your gas foot to the floor to interrupt injection command and let the mixture lean out until the engine manages to start, if so). Also how about wiring harness issues, loose ignition connectors or oxidised pins problems, or automatic shut-off powered from PCM or the notorious antitheft systems from aftermarket.. :confuse:

    Sure thing- if we did know how to diagnose (before buying a new pump) that the pump check valve drcarp mentioned is faulty, that would be great. Alas, we don't know. The techs have tools and training to do it without dropping the tank -- surely you do not to have to pay for the new part and the replacement as yet; and diagnosing it could cost even less than an hourly labor rate (~$80 in my area).. Worse yet, buying a cheap pump would very likely require another replacement in less than a year. Judging by standard replacement pump's pricing from for example RockAuto -- http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,carcode,1362811,parttype,6256 -- this Taurus'es new pump assembly would cost over $130. So maybe it's worth making sure diagnosis is correct before buying new costly parts..
  • tmgobletmgoble Member Posts: 2
    I have a 2002 Ford Taurus SEL Wagon and started to experience the same problem. The RPM will drop and raise up when its warm but operate fine when cold. The problem is not fuel related. It is the IAC (Idle Air Control) which is located on top of the throttle body. The IAC is very easy to change and almost anyone can do it and it is extremely easy to access. The IAC is located near the back of engine in the center. It has a connector which has to be disconnected and it is held in place by 2 bolts (8 mm) I believe. Under the 2 bolts and it comes right off. The IAC consists of 2 components (1) sensors and (2) solenoid. The sensors in itself are generally not the culprit but a stick solenoid. The IAC allows air to pass through when there is a load placed. When your engine is cold it doesn't require much but when your engine heats up the cars cooling fan kicks in requiring power, the alternator provides power to the battery etc... the IAC allows more air to pass and regulates the rpm to compensate. While your car has filters it doesn't capture everything and through the passage of time the IAC gets carbon, dirt and other stick air born particles causing the sensors not to perform within specifications and the solenoid starts to get stuck. Yes you can clean it usually a soak in mild carb cleaner (over night) will do it but honestly for about $50-75 depending where you shop you can pick up a new one and as I said it is something anyone can do (there are plenty of video's on you tube to show you).
  • davycrockett1davycrockett1 Member Posts: 1
    I have 1997 Taurus GL Wagon Vin “U” 3.0 It died while I was driving, let it sit 45 min or so, started up and worked good for a week and then died again. Now it will not start. It died like it was running out of gas, but I have ½ to ¾ tank. I had replaced the fuel pump about a month ago with a Delphi OEM pump. Wiring looks good. Switched relays around, didn’t matter. Dropped tank and all seems fine. I hotwired the pump and the pump works. The car started up after hotwiring, ran fine until it used the gas in the line up. So it seems the gas is getting to the engine fine and returning to the tank fine. I have spark as well. I am really stumped as to why the fuel pump will not turn on. Any ideas? TY!
  • fearce65fearce65 Member Posts: 1
    I have a 2000 Sable. I just recently started doing the same thing. Except mine does it whenever. First thing in the morning, after driving it, while I'm driving. At first, I believed it was the fuel pump. I could not hear it running. I pulled the fuse under the hood, then put it back. Car started right up. Bought a new fuse, had no problems for about 2 weeks. Now, it's acting up again. Pulled the fuse, put it back. Work just fine. That is the only fuse I am having problems with. No problems with the rest of them. Any ideas?
  • kingpalm61kingpalm61 Member Posts: 4
    Saw your posting I see that was awhile back, did you ever find out the problem. I have been working on a 2001 Sable Wagon, did head gaskets, had to go back in a second time because the customer wouldn't pay for new timing chains and tensioners, but when he heard how it ran, he paid me to do that. Now, I have no power to the fuel pump and can't figure out why. I have checked fuses, relays, grounds, power, etc. I'm hoping you will see this post and maybe might have a suggestion. I have fixed a lot of difficult problems, but this one is stumping me....
  • ralph80ralph80 Member Posts: 1
    I have a 2002 mercury sable 3.0 L DOHC engine. I had a similar problem. Car would just stop interrmitantley. I had a P1233 error on a scan. Fuel Pump driver module. I replaced it and had the same problems. This car has an inertia switch in the trunk. If you have an accident it will shut off the fuel pump. I replaced it and I had the same problem. If you look below the inertia switch, which is located behind the trunk liner, on the passenger side, in the trunk, you should see a ground lug with two black wires. I removed the 8mm bolt and discovered that it was attached directly over silicone sealant on the inner fender. I scraped the paint to bare metal and sanded the ground lug. Then I replaced the ground lug and have never had another problem.
  • jjamieson1jjamieson1 Member Posts: 5

    Hey everyone...read this! I've been trying to diagnose the same problem..same symptoms for over a year on my girlfriends 2001 Taurus. The last post by Ralph80 is the solution. Don't go buy or spend money or time with replacing the fuel pump until you run a separate ground from your fuel pump module as he did..or assuming from his description that is basically what he did. Two independent Ford mechanics on their own, did numerous tests on the fuel system of these cars and both came to this same conclusion. Here's why. the fuel system on these cars is different than most. Asking your friend who is or mechanic or getting advise from even the dealership is a waste of time. It does not apply here and is a vehicle specific issue and one that is not the norm for this situation...which is why there are so many posts about this problem with no definitive solution. In my girlfriends car, this issue had been going on for so long that now I suspect even more peripheral problems ie....over charging of the battery which is killing them as well....or drawing more amps from the battery and causing them to run low and die prematurely. This is still a hunch...... but basically what is happening is a bad or poor ground at the back end of the electrical system that runs the fuel pump, relay and inertia switch. Its a closed system but in short......the bad ground is causing heat in the fuel pump or related valving electrical components ( which will draw more amps or try to from the charging system...alternator.....voltage regulator...and on down the line ) so when you stop after driving for a short time....the overheated part (fuel pump module or related component) doesn't work until it has time to cool, which is why waiting for a while then going back will usually restart as is it should......as well as in my girlfriends car...seems to happen more often on hotter days than cooler ones. However....this does not mean that your fuel pump is not compromised just because you fix the source by adding a new ground. The repeated over heating has probably not be good on the fuel pump and module even if it still works for now. I'm holding my breath to see if the fuel pump might go out anyway. But this also explains why so many people are going to the dealerships and replacing the pumps just to have them fail again. No offense to any REAL dealership mechanics out there but my experience is that they are good at replacing parts and not so good at diagnostics. Old school guys used to repair and rebuild cars and because of that, new a million tricks and causes for just about every situation you could imagine simply because they had to tear things down and look inside to actually discover where and why things fail..dealerships make money on both ends by selling you and installing new parts.
    I will post later if I have any more to add. I wish someone like myself had posted this earlier but I hope this helps someone else not have to go through the same process I did. FYI: I didn't rip into my girlfriends gas tank yet in hopes that I could find a solution....The ground seemed to do the trick.

  • jjamieson1jjamieson1 Member Posts: 5

    Follow up to my last post....the Ford Mechanic(s) I referred to actually ran a new (separate) ground wire directly from the fuel pump module at the tank to the floor behind the rear seat with a through screw in the sheet metal. This is what I did but I tapped into the ground wire at the first location I could get to it without dropping the gas tank****

  • jjamieson1jjamieson1 Member Posts: 5

    Today I decided to cover as many bases as I could with this ground issue and found every ground point in the trunk area and behind the rear seat as I could and ran them all into my new ground point in the floor pan just behind the seat. I looked up the schematics and found 3 ground wires. One green/yellow from what believe is the drivers side control module and two others ( solid black ) that come in from the passengers side in the trunk harness that are tied together.....a total of two factory ground locations. This makes a total of 3 new ground wires coming into my new ground screw....one from the pump sender module, one coming in or out ? of the drivers side module and one coming from the two black harness grounds. I think this about covers all the available grounds. I'll post anything new if there is anything that comes from this.

  • jjamieson1jjamieson1 Member Posts: 5

    Update on ground wire install.......In my previous post I stated that I had initially tapped the first available ground from the harness coming from the top of the fuel tank. This appears to have been redundant after finally finding a full schematic for a 2001 Taurus SES. The systems on these cars and their location appear to be all over the map from year to year so it was hard to pinpoint specific wires. What I finally figured out is that the ground wires that appear to be the main target in resolving this issue were located on the right side of the trunk screwed into the inner fender well. On the left side in about the same location was a green/black wire coming out of the harness that is also a ground. I'm not 100% sure on this but this one according to the wiring schematics is associated with the power antenna circuit and would be less likely to have anything to do with the issue we're discussing. All the main ground wires show as either black or black/white on the diagram throughout the entire electrical system. Anyway...the three black grounds on the right hand trunk side appear to all be associated with the fuel system and as I stated earlier.......I ran an auxiliary wire from that point forward to the floor just under the rear seat. I ran one from the left side to the same point as well just for good measure. The first wire I ran from the harness was actually on the same run going to the rear right ground screw so it wasn't really necessary .....overkill in this case shouldn't hurt. I will post later with anything new

  • jjamieson1jjamieson1 Member Posts: 5
    edited October 2014
    It's now October 2014 and the problem with the 2001 Taurus fuel pump has completely disappeared. Do date.....the fuel pump and associated issues with it have stopped 100% after installing the ground wire as I described and am still running on the original factory fuel pump with over 175,000 miles on the car. It appears that the ground wire did the trick for anyone who is running into the same issues. It's worth an hour or so and $2 worth of wire if nothing else. Good Luck.
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