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GM News, New Models and Market Share

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Comments

  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,729
    62-

    I read somewhere that the Corolla sales were down 18%. I wonder where those buyers went?

    Regardless it looks like GMs plan to put $$ into product to delelop desireable vehicles is working.

    Looks like Ford and Chrysler are still in big trouble. I hope GMs success isn't coming at Ford and Chryslers expense.
  • carguy58carguy58 Posts: 2,303
    "I read somewhere that the Corolla sales were down 18%. I wonder where those buyers went?"

    Well a new redesigned 2009 Corolla as Toyota calls it comes out this week.

    "Looks like Ford and Chrysler are still in big trouble. I hope GMs success isn't coming at Ford and Chryslers expense."

    I think Ford is gonna make it but I don;t know about Chrysler. I read Chrysler is planning "emergencey refresheses" on their Sebring and Avenger Sedans. I mean I don;t think that the current crop of Sebring/Avenger sedans is a match for the Fusion or the Malibu let alone the Japanese and Korean competition in the mid-size car sector.

    "Regardless it looks like GMs plan to put $$ into product to delelop desireable vehicles is working."

    Yup the new Malibu and CTS have been selling well. GMC had a good selling year last year(484K units sold in 2007 vs 456K units sold in 2006) as well as Saturn 240K units sold in 2007 vs 226K units sold in 2006. GMC did good in terms of sales for the month of January of 2008(31K units sold in Jan 2008 vs 27K units sold in Jan 2007.) I think GMC was the fastest growing car brand in the US in January 2008 based on sales growth(+4K units.) Saturn had a good month in January 2008 in terms of sales(15.3 K sold in Jan 2008 vs 13.7 K units sold in Jan 2007.)
  • carguy58carguy58 Posts: 2,303
    "Japan's Toyota Motor Corp., which is battling GM for the title of world's No. 1 auto maker, reported a 2.3% drop."

    Ah Toyota did grow market share wise in Jan 2008. Toyota now owns 16.4% of the US market vs 16.1% of the US market in Jan 2007.

    "Interesting that car sales are down at Toyota but truck sales are up!"

    Well Toyota has a brand new Sequioa in their line-up now so they that may have something to do with the gain in their truck sales. Don;t forget Toyota is gonna put a brand new(as they call it) 2009 Corolla in their line-up this week so that should help their car sales.

    "Ford Motor Corp., which ceded its title as the second-largest auto maker in the U.S. to Toyota last year, had a 3.9% decline."

    Ford actually had a gain in retail sales last month I think vs Jan 2007 sales but their sales to rental fleets were down last month 16.8%. Their US market share did bump up from 14.1% in Jan 2008 vs 14.0% vs Jan 2007.

    "Chrysler LLC reported a 12% skid."

    Well Chrysler cut rental fleet sales by 18% in Jan 2008 vs Jan 2007 figures I think.

    "Honda Motor Co. sales also dipped 2.3 percent from 100,790 in January 2007 to 98,511 last month."

    Honda like Toyota had a gain in US Market Share(9.4% in Jan 2008 vs 9.2% in Jan 2007) despite the down sales. Sales of the CR-V, Civic, and Fit were up but what shocked me was that sales of the brand new 2008 Accord were down vs Jan 2007(23K in Jan 2008 vs 25K in Jan 2007.) Acura sales were down 14.2%.

    I think Honda and Toyota did decent in both being down 2.3% in terms of sales since the overall industry was down 4.1% last month. Mazda sales on the other hand was up 10.1% last month.

    BTW, nice to see the Domestics matching overall output with market demand these days and reducing fleet sales. Nice too also to see the Domestics concentrating more on the retail car sales side of things.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    "Japan's Toyota Motor Corp., which is battling GM for the title of world's No. 1 auto maker, reported a 2.3% drop."

    Ah Toyota did grow market share wise in Jan 2008. Toyota now owns 16.4% of the US market vs 16.1% of the US market in Jan 2007.


    Looks like they got it from the smaller players. GM was up 1% to 24%.

    "Interesting that car sales are down at Toyota but truck sales are up!"

    Well Toyota has a brand new Sequioa in their line-up now so they that may have something to do with the gain in their truck sales. Don;t forget Toyota is gonna put a brand new(as they call it) 2009 Corolla in their line-up this week so that should help their car sales.


    Yes but I thought the word in the street was that trucks are gonna plummet due to the $3 gas and car penetration would skyrocket. Not happening. Sure the midsize truck market is dropping and CUV's are going way up but the large SUV's are still not plummeting. Consumers do not seem to feel strongly that $3 is too much to drastically change buying habits.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    1/2 million cars, sounds like China has a way to go a lot of potential car sales. Whoever is on top(or 2/3) here is going to be big.US automotive company Shanghai General Motors Co., Ltd.
    (Shanghai GM) sold 500,308 cars in 2007, ranking first in the Chinese
    passenger car industry.

    By now, Shanghai GM has been a national champion by yearly sales for three
    consecutive years. Moreover, it has been the first domestic passenger car
    maker that surpassed the 500,308- unit milestone in terms of annual sales.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    General Motors Corp. plans to build a new heavy duty
    diesel engine at its plant in this Dayton suburb, investing $69 million and
    retaining more than 1,000 jobs, the automaker announced Tuesday.

    GM said the new 6.6-liter V-8 turbo diesel engine will be produced at the
    DMAX plant, resulting in plant renovations, new machinery and tooling. GM
    said the engine will meet emissions standards in 2010.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    U.S. retail sales of the new Malibu model were up 200
    percent in January compared to the old model.

    "We can't get enough of them because demand is so high," Ed Peper told
    reporters on the sidelines of the Chicago Auto Show.

    GM has said the main impediment to Malibu sales has been producing them
    fast enough. It currently turns around the cars within 15 or 16 days, a
    very tight rate under industry standards.
    Malibu production should catch up with demand toward the end of the second
    quarter and into the third and fourth quarters of 2008, Peper said.

    Asked whether the Malibu sedan had been taking sales from other Chevrolet
    models such as the Impala, Peper said lower Impala sales in January
    overall was misleading because GM has been cutting back sharply on fleet
    sales.

    Impala U.S. retail sales were up 44 percent in January, Peper said.
  • bumpybumpy Posts: 4,435
    Malibu production should catch up with demand toward the end of the second
    quarter and into the third and fourth quarters of 2008


    Can GM keep the bloom on the Malibu rose that long? I wonder if they're not holding back to keep the transaction price high, and to protect the now-junky-looking Impala until its line at Oshawa shuts down?
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    Can GM keep the bloom on the Malibu rose that long? I wonder if they're not holding back to keep the transaction price high, and to protect the now-junky-looking Impala until its line at Oshawa shuts down?

    Oh come on, Impala retail sales are up 40% in a down period for everyone. The car is still an attractive vehicle. It is bigger than the Malibu. It is better looking than the Accord (new or old). Perhaps those coming in to buy the unavailable Malibu are being turned onto the Impala?

    GM sold 55000 midsize cars in January (5 cars). ~700,000 annual rate.

    Last January they sold ~33,000 midsize cars (a little finageling due to Impala retail up 40% but overall down 30% due to fleet reduction). ~400,000 annual rate. For some reason GM midsize cars really increased while the competition is fell.
  • bumpybumpy Posts: 4,435
    Impala is up 40% compared to what? Without any hard numbers, those percentages don't mean much. IMO, its actual sales numbers should be compared to a rolling 6-month average (which I just might end up doing if I remember where I put my Open Office download).

    Anyway, the "junky-looking" remark was mostly about the interior versus the Malibu, which seems to still be rare on the ground. I've seen *one* at the local Chevy dealer and another one on the highway to date, versus half a dozen of the "unpopular" 2008 Accord.
  • lemkolemko Philadelphia, PAPosts: 15,306
    ...has a nicer interior than the past generation, but even it looks bad compared to the one in the new Malibu. Chevy's got to work some of that Malibu magic on the Impala.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    Impala is up 40% compared to what? Without any hard numbers, those percentages don't mean much.

    Impala is up 40% retail for January of '08 vs. '07. However total sales are way down because they severly cut fleet.

    I have seen one '08 sedan Accord. Only one. I have not visited a dealer though.
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Posts: 2,770
    I've seen more '08 Accords than Malibus, but aren't the Accords plentiful on the lots whereas the Malibu is scarce? My friend bought a Malibu LTZ from a dealer, even though it had a small dent and cracked taillight from them moving it around the lot, he wanted it that bad (yes, they fixed it first). It was the only one in the area in the color sceme he wanted.
  • torque_rtorque_r Posts: 500
    Impala is up 40% compared to what? Without any hard numbers, those percentages don't mean much. IMO, its actual sales numbers should be compared to a rolling 6-month average (which I just might end up doing if I remember where I put my Open Office download).

    This is from autonews.com

    As Malibu soars, Impala sinks amid GM cuts to rental fleets

    Chevrolet continues to slash sales to daily rental fleets by pulling back on sales of the Impala sedan. While January sales of the new Chevrolet Malibu mid-sized sedan rose 57.9 percent from January 2007, sales of the larger Impala fell 30.6 percent. Most of the Impala's decline is due to cuts in sales to daily rental fleets, General Motors says


    Most of the Impala decline is due to cuts in sales to rental fleets, GM says. 'Most' means 'not all' . To me, that means retail sales have also declined.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    Most of the Impala decline is due to cuts in sales to rental fleets, GM says. 'Most' means 'not all' . To me, that means retail sales have also declined.

    Not sure what you do not understand. Impala retail was up over 40% for January.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idUSN0654697720080206
  • steverstever Posts: 52,462
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  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    GM is working way at becoming profitable. Ways to go.

    announced a 2007 calendar-year adjusted net loss, excluding special items, of $23 million, or $.04 per diluted share. This compares to adjusted net income of $2.2 billion, or $3.84 per diluted share in 2006, as significantly improved automotive performance was offset by large losses at GMAC. Including special items, the company reported a loss of $38.7 billion, or $68.45 per diluted share, compared to a reported loss of $2 billion, or $3.50 per diluted share in 2006. The loss is almost entirely attributable to the non-cash $38.3 billion special charge in the third quarter related to the valuation allowance against deferred tax assets.


    GM’s core automotive business generated record revenue of $178 billion in 2007, a $7 billion improvement over 2006, aided by explosive growth in emerging markets and favorable foreign exchange against a weaker U.S. dollar.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    GMAC is going to be closing offices and letting people go. Recall that GM owns ~50% of GMAC now with Cerberus the other ~50%. This will show up as a ~charge of $75 million and I guess GM would show half of that as a loss? But it does say it would save $175 million every year due to the cuts. Looks like Cerberus is doing it's job.

    Whats interesting is that GMAC lost $4.3 billion due to mortgages and profited $1.5 billion on auto loans in 2007. I guess GM sold 1/2 just in time even though I sorta remember GM having to make up some of those losses last year. I guess the half of $75 million is a drop in the bucket.

    Finance company GMAC on Wednesday said it would restructure
    its auto finance unit by eliminating about 930 jobs and closing smaller
    offices in the face of tighter credit markets and slumping new car
    sales.

    The job cuts represent about 15 percent of the 6,275 employees in GMAC's
    auto finance business. GMAC said the layoffs and office closures would
    take effect this year and prompt a charge of between $65 million and $85
    million.

    GMAC also said it would close an unspecified number of smaller offices
    in order to consolidate its auto finance business into five regional
    hubs in North America.

    Charges for the restructuring will be taken over the course of 2008,
    with the majority in the second half, GMAC said. It said it expected
    the cuts to produce annual savings of $175 million once fully
    implemented.

    The move to cut costs in GMAC's core auto finance unit marks a new phase
    in the restructuring of the privately held finance company's business
    after devoting recent quarters to shoring up its mortgage arm
    Residential Capital LLC, which was pushed into deep losses by the
    subprime mortgage collapse.

    General Motors Corp owns 49 percent of GMAC. A group led by private
    equity firm Cerberus Capital Management LP owns 51 percent. GMAC is
    based in Detroit.

    For all of 2007, GMAC lost $2.33 billion, including a loss of $4.35
    billion at ResCap. That loss compared with a $2.13 billion overall
    profit a year earlier.

    By contrast, GM's global auto finance business returned a net profit of
    $1.49 billion in 2007.

    Detroit-based GMAC has said it expects to be profitable in 2008.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    Looks like the next 6 speed plant is open. Look to see many more GM vehicles using the 6 speed. Wonder of all the honda and toyota scribers will complain about their out of date 5 speeds? This plant per the article builds RWD versions only with many going to Austrailia.

    General Motors dedicated a $660 million transmission
    plant at its vehicle assembly, engine and stamping complex here Tuesday,
    Feb. 19.

    The plant began operations about a month ago. It has an installed
    capacity of 1,500 six-speed transmissions a day, said Kevin Williams, GM
    Mexico president.

    The plant builds a new six-speed rear-wheel-drive family of
    transmissions. Those gearboxes will be used in 25 different vehicles
    assembled around the world, including passenger cars and light trucks.

    The transmissions are intended mainly for use on vehicles built at
    Silao. About 90,000 a year will be exported to Australia and other
    overseas markets. A plant in Ypsilanti, Mich., builds the same family of
    transmissions.
  • bumpybumpy Posts: 4,435
    Any idea when they're going to ramp up production on the FWD 6-speeds and 2MHs? Those are the ones they'll really need going forward, especially if the RWD Impala is killed.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    They have 3 plants currently making the 6T40/45 for 4 cylinders in Ypsilanti, China and Korea. Another plant is being built in Toledo for 2010.

    The 6T70/75 for V6 FWD/AWD is built in Warren.

    I see not other plans for building HD 6T70/75's.

    As of 2008 GM had capacity to build 1.8 million 6 speeds (10 variants) and will have capacity to build 3 million by 2010.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    Toyota, Lexus, Hyundai, Honda and Hummer are the industry's strongest brands, according to a new set of ratings compiled by J.D. Power and Associates.

    The index, which measures 2007 loyalty and sales conquest data, suggests that Ford, Pontiac and Buick are in decline.


    Gotta remember though the other survey that said if you look beyond individual marques and at corporate loyalty GM is right up there with Toyota at the top. A lot of moving from one GM marque to another but still stay in the family.

    Meanwhile, Hummer is doing an effective job of reaching new prospects. It has a stunning 427 percent new-customer ratio. And despite a limited product line, Hummer is retaining a strong 44 percent loyalty. Those loyal customers represent just 16 percent of sales. That shows strong conquesting and good future prospects for the brand.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    Here is where we disagree. I do not see Buick as being between Pontiac and Cadillac. I see Buick as a different kind of vehicle than both. Pontiac is sporty/youthful at a mid price level. Cadillac as luxury at a high price level. Buick as premium at a mid price level.

    Buick is more like a Lexus comfort lux image while Pontiac is more of a Mazda sporty image. They have a way to go but Buick has the comfort image all sewn up as Pontiac has the sporty image. Issue is that GM has a ways to go to convince the buyer they are both great products.

    I believe that GM can delineate Pontiac and Buick to the customers in the mid price market.
  • xhe518xhe518 Posts: 107
    If GM can get these cars to market fairly quickly, they would have a little 'niche' to themselves...nobody else is making a small, affordable RWD car right now....closest thing would be a BMW 1 series, but they cost a lot more.....
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    General Motors may build a Buick luxury car that is sized and priced below the LaCrosse.

    Executives are rethinking GM's U.S. product plans in light of new federal regulations requiring an average fuel economy of 35 mpg by 2020, company insiders say. The small Buick could be one outcome.

    The vehicle would be based on the Buick Excelle sedan that debuts in China by early next year.

    "I definitely think there might be a market for a luxury-crafted smaller car for Buick," says a senior GM source.

    GM would have to resolve where in North America to build the car. Also, executives are considering how to position it against other GM brands with compact sedans.

    The Toyota Corolla-sized Excelle is based on GM's new global rear-drive architecture, called Alpha, being developed in Germany.
  • bumpybumpy Posts: 4,435
    A compact RWD Pontiac and a Buick and a Cadillac is one too many, IMO.

    Also, is Alpha going to really be a compact, or a smallish midsizer like the IS and 3er?
  • dtownfbdtownfb Posts: 2,918
    I agree. Dumb question.. is there a need for Pontiac anymore since GM is investing so much in Saturn? It seems to me that Saturn can easily fill Pontiac shoes. Also you simply replace Saturn with Pontiac at the dealerships and you increase the visibility of Saturn. Also with the exception of the Solstice, is there any unique cars at Pontiac?
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    compact RWD Pontiac and a Buick and a Cadillac is one too many, IMO.

    We can disagree but I see 3 possible segments here.

    Cadillac: high end sport lux segment like the 3 series/IS. $29k and up. ATP around $33. Probably somewhere between the 1 and 3 series in size??

    Buick: mid premium lux segment with really no competition I can think of. Please help me here. Who makes a premium compact RWD vehicle for $26K? ATP of $29k. I just see no competition here. And perhaps no market? I would say the Lexus but the IS is priced way too high. ($32k)

    Pontiac: mid premium sports segment for $25k with $27k ATP. Again I do not see competition here. Help me out. What compact RWD sedans are out there at less than $30k?
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    Also you simply replace Saturn with Pontiac at the dealerships

    Saturns are family FWD (except for Sky) while it looks like Pontiacs will RWD youthful sporty cars.
  • bumpybumpy Posts: 4,435
    I think the Buick needs to go, as there's not enough room between a $25k Pontiac and a $29k Cadillac for it (although I'd dump the Caddy version and sell the $29k car as a Buick). GM could take the Caddy and repackage it as a Buick to sell in China, though.
  • bumpybumpy Posts: 4,435
    At the moment, but there's no reason Saturn couldn't be GM's captive import brand. Add the G8 and Pontiac's prospective Alpha, dump the Outlook and Aura, and bring over the Insignia and Zafira to go with the Astra and Corsa.
  • xhe518xhe518 Posts: 107
    A compact RWD Pontiac and a Buick and a Cadillac is one too many, IMO.

    I tend to agree, especially when you consider that the plan is to have Pontiac/Buick/GMC under one roof. I guess you could have the Pontiac tuned for "performance" and the Buick tuned for "luxury"... Then you toss in the Cadillac version of the same car.....I dunno... Then Chevrolet is going to want a version of it too.....
  • torque_rtorque_r Posts: 500
    Saturns are family FWD (except for Sky) while it looks like Pontiacs will RWD youthful sporty cars.

    Why does Pontiac still have the Vibe then? That Corolla wagon is not really sporty and could easily go to Chevy or Saturn instead. Also what about the G6? Is it gonna be RWD? And while the G8 is sporty, I dont think any car longer than 195in should be described as youthful.
  • xhe518xhe518 Posts: 107
    Also what about the G6? Is it gonna be RWD?

    I'm guessing the RWD car we're talking about above would be called a G6 (or maybe a G5 ?)
  • bumpybumpy Posts: 4,435
    I'm still skeptical, but a compact/midsize luxury-oriented RWD Buick might work out if, as rumored, the next Lexus ES is derived from the Toyota Mark X (the current descendent of the Cressida) instead of the Camry.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    My only point is - I think the average Buick driver would rather have FWD. The domestic carmakers spent the whole decade of the 80s selling people on FWD. Now they're going to turn around and say - wait, just kidding, RWD really is better...

    Neither is better or worse. Just different for different drivers/situations. FWD is great for all round driving, expecially when slick out. It is also more efficient for packaging. RWD is better for handling.

    the issue is that GM does not have a premium FWD architecture Who knows, perhaps the new Delta (or whatever it is) would work.
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    While some of the top of the line Buicks may compare with the lower end of the Lexus line, I think anyone who thinks Buicks compare with the Lexus lineup is really out of touch with reality.

    At one time I think that Buicks were just under the Cadillac line up, but after the introduction of the compact car, and various other car sizes, GM line up below the Cadillac line, was really mushed together in so that comparing a make with another make made no sense. Comparing the small cars with each other made some sense, but comparing a compact Buick with a full size Chevy was not sensible.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    While some of the top of the line Buicks may compare with the lower end of the Lexus line, I think anyone who thinks Buicks compare with the Lexus lineup is really out of touch with reality.

    totally agree with that. Buick is a mid priced vehicle marque. Cadillac is the one that sells the high end price points. Buick is Lexus like in many respects such as premium comfort, interior premiumness with softness. It is not a sports division with sporty styling. Cadillac has chosen to define itself as much sportier more like BMW/Infiniti.

    The Buick ride is actually a bit more restrained than the ES series which is pretty loose compared to vehicles like Acura/Infiniti/BMW. The LaCrosse and its bigger brother have a little more harshness and less roll than the ES but most would not be ale to tell.
  • xhe518xhe518 Posts: 107
    - Like I said above, if GM can bring this to market fairly soon, they'll have a niche all to themselves - nobody else makes an affordable small RWD sedan now.

    - I agree, this car seems to make the most sense as a Pontiac and Cadillac, but unless they plan on eliminating Buick, they need to give them some newer/better cars than the LaCrosse and Lucerne.

    - Sort of ironic, in the US market Buick is thought of as an "old persons" car but in China it apparently is a somewhat 'upscale' name....GM will probably sell more Buicks in China than in the US soon, if not already.... the nameplate seems on death's door in the US but apparently is doing well in China.

    - Not everybody wants RWD - if Buick is aiming to be a lower cost Lexus, they would do just as well using the Malibu/Saturn Aura platform to make an ES350 type sedan.
  • bumpybumpy Posts: 4,435
    GM will probably sell more Buicks in China than in the US soon, if not already

    That already happened several years ago. Buick sold nearly twice as many cars in China as in the US in 2007, and I firmly believe we're less than a decade away from Buicks becoming Chinese cars in every sense of the word.
  • dtownfbdtownfb Posts: 2,918
    YOu and I are on the same page. It seems to me that Pontiac has the same cars as Chevy except different moulding. That's fine but my guess is Pontiac is competing more with Saturn and Chevrolet rather then Honda, Nissan, Toyota, VW, etc. This seems like an easy way to trim costs without impacting sales longterm.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    if Buick is aiming to be a lower cost Lexus, they would do just as well using the Malibu/Saturn Aura platform to make an ES350 type sedan.

    The 2009 LaCrosse is on the Epsilon II FWD/AWD platform that the next Malibu/Aura will be based on. (Aura next) It will be wider to be the same as the Camry/Accord.

    The discussion above is on the Alpha platform which is a smaller, RWD architecture. I would guess the reason Buick would get one is that it is the only "premium" architecture to be available to Buick for a vehicle smaller than the Epsilon II. I guess they could use the Delta Cobalt architecture but not exactly the "premium" architecture Buick is looking for.

    I guess the real question is whether Buick needs a vehicle smaller than the LaCrosse. With a 35 mpg requirement I think the world will change and GM needs to but out a bunch of tiny cars that get high mpg and get premium dollars.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    That already happened several years ago. Buick sold nearly twice as many cars in China as in the US in 2007, and I firmly believe we're less than a decade away from Buicks becoming Chinese cars in every sense of the word.

    It's a global market now. If you mean the vehicle will be imported I would say no to any volume model. The new LaCrosse will be built here next to the Aura/Malibu. The next Lucerne replacement will be built here as will the Enclave. The Alpha model, if there is one, will also be built here.

    However look for Engineering and design to be done globally. LaCrosse interior may be designed in China and the exterior styled in US! Parts could come from anywhere and most likely they will be from everywhere. Since the LaCrossse is Eps II it is being engineered in Germany.
  • xhe518xhe518 Posts: 107
    I guess the real question is whether Buick needs a vehicle smaller than the LaCrosse. With a 35 mpg requirement I think the world will change and GM needs to but out a bunch of tiny cars that get high mpg and get premium dollars.

    I'm fine with that - no question, as gas gets up to $4 a gallon, people won't have a problem with a smaller "premium" car. I think Cadillac definitely needs it, and it would make sense as a Pontiac.

    My only point is - I think the average Buick driver would rather have FWD. The domestic carmakers spent the whole decade of the 80s selling people on FWD. Now they're going to turn around and say - wait, just kidding, RWD really is better...
  • xhe518xhe518 Posts: 107
    Out of curiosity - What is the new Saab 9-1 based on? I assume some type of FWD platform. Also, I wonder what the next Saab 9-3 will be based on? The latest Epsilon II seems bigger than the 9-3 (last gen Epsilon)
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    Saab will unveil at the Geneva Motor Show the Concept version of the 2010 9-1, a model that will compete with BMW 1-Series, Audi A3 and Volvo C30 models. It will be based on the Opel Astra architecture, with engine options including a 1.6-liter and 2.0-liter turbocharged petrol units.

    If you go to the link they show a China Buick based on this new architecture and up to $40k for a europe sold model. It also state the g5 may go to the RWD Alpha platform as previously stated. I can easily see Buick going to this FWD and forgoing the RWD version.

    General Motors wants to broaden the range of vehicles that its new global front-drive compact architecture covers.

    AdvertisementUnder development at GM's Opel research-and-development center in Ruesselsheim, the new architecture replaces the Delta compact-car platform. It will debut in the United States and Europe as early as 2009.
    “We are doing a completely new platform that has a huge bandwidth,” said Peter Mertens, vehicle line executive for the architecture. The new one will stretch beyond the limits of Delta, used for vehicles such as the Chevrolet Cobalt.

    Vehicles planned for the United States include an all-new Saturn Astra in 2009 or 2010. Chevrolet gets a small, minivanlike model in 2009. But the Cobalt may move to another GM architecture.

    Up to five body styles, with prices ranging from less than $10,000 in South America to more than $40,000 in Europe.


    http://pxi.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20071208/news_lz1dd8global.html
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    I've done a little googleing and I think the quote I first listed is wrong. It said RWD Alpha designed in Germany. First, Alpha's homeroom is Austrailia.

    The next-generation Excelle will be based on GM’s global Delta platform. The current Excelle shares its platform with the Suzuki Forenza in the U.S., the Holden Viva in Australia, and the Chevrolet Lacetti in Europe.

    I believe the above would be more accurate. The Excelle is the Sub LaCrosse Buick sold in China. Makes more sense financially.

    http://www.autosavant.net/2007/08/buick-excelle-production-gets-new-home.html
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    It seems to me that Pontiac has the same cars as Chevy except different moulding

    Cobalt vs. G5:correct
    Malibu vs. G6: incorrect, a bit more than moulding
    G8 vs.??: incorrect, nothing
    Vibe vs. ??: incorrect, nothing
    Equinox vs. Torrent: correct, Torrent soon to be gone.

    So I guess there is one model I would agree with and that was brought in to fill a huge hole at Pontiac. Soon to be rectified with a RWD vehicle
  • xhe518xhe518 Posts: 107
    It seems to me that Pontiac has the same cars as Chevy except different moulding

    Cobalt vs. G5:correct
    Malibu vs. G6: incorrect, a bit more than moulding
    G8 vs.??: incorrect, nothing
    Vibe vs. ??: incorrect, nothing
    Equinox vs. Torrent: correct, Torrent soon to be gone.

    So I guess there is one model I would agree with and that was brought in to fill a huge hole at Pontiac. Soon to be rectified with a RWD vehicle


    Agree - the 2 that are 'badge engineered' will both be replaced in the next few years - the Torrent by a GMC and the G5 by the small RWD sedan we're talking about above. Also, Pontiac has the Solstice.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    would say though that people still cross shop a G6 with a Malibu more than they do a G6 with a Camry/Accord. GM continues to have their brands step all over each other.

    And that is mostly because most domestic buyers do not look at imports and vice versa, in general. And the G6 is an example of a product that is old and needs to be revised quickly to be what Pontiac is, a mid priced premium performance sedan. It is not there.
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