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GM News, New Models and Market Share

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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,852
    It's 2013 already?

    You surely know that 2013 models are for sale now, by every manufacturer. His was a 2003 model. Hopefully I won't need to do the math for you.

    This reminds me when I had to explain on this forum that when you are adding years to a beginning year, you don't include the first year (e.g., 1958 to 2012 is 54 years old, but would include 55 model years).
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,852
    edited September 2012
    GTI loaner once, it did have a "light" on in the dash, but it wasn't a red light,

    LOL--geez, in my cars, the "Check Engine" light is yellow. Now on my Studebaker...oh nevermind, it has all gauges.

    As far as the Altima, bpizzuti...to me, it looks so...Asian. That's a turnoff to me.

    I thought the 2002 restyle of the Altima was a good one, but at Advanced Auto Parts yesterday, a guy got out of one of that era and the driver's door dropped the way I haven't seen since mid'70's Monte Carlos...no s**t.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Yeah, one would think the Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Hyundai-Kia, etc. topics would be showing 100s of new posts everyday while the GM topics would show maybe 10. Heck, I only look at those topics when I've already looked at the topics that interest me and seldom post anything.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    A lot of the time certain cars are hyped beyond what they really are. One guy with whom I regularly go to car shows drives a Honda Accord. I think it's nice enough to ride in and the fake wood on the door panels is really nice, but I don't feel like I need to immediately trade any of my rides in on a new Accord.

    One year I decided to take out a new Lexus LS430 for a test drive when I was shopping for a new car. The car drove like my Buick Park Avenue. My mind was telling me, "this is a Buick that costs tens of thousands dollars more!" I couldn't see myself paying a huge premium just to get a Buick with a nicer interior. Nowadays, you can get a Buick with an interior as nice as a Lexus.

    About the only import car that could've had a realistic shot at being in my driveway is the Toyota Avalon. My wife and I sat in one at the Philly Auto Show and thought it was nice. However, they had to go change it and put that huge ugly gaping maw grille on it.

    The Asian imports usually blow it with me right out the door with their styling. I want an attractive car, but their styling is often alien and bizarre and immediately turns me off. I could care less how good they might be if they're ugly.

    European cars are very attractive, but the maintenance and repair costs scare me away. Buying a European luxury car is one thing. Being able to keep up with it is quite another.

    This is why I stick with GM and the domestics. The cars are attractive like European cars yet affordable and reliable like Asian cars.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    edited September 2012
    You must have bad luck. I haven't had a claim since 1997 and that was a hit-and-run when the car was parked. You also seem have unrealistic expections of Enterprise. They're the rental car bottom-feeder. You're lucky to get a CLEAN car from them. Maybe you should try out Sixt. I hear you can rent an E-Class there.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,852
    edited September 2012
    balance

    Here's your balance:

    The Cobalt stinks (paraphrasing).

    Later confesses: Never rode in one, never drove one, never will.

    You have never seen comments like that from me here...where I say "(Fill in the blank) sucks/stinks/is lousy/I'd never be seen in one".

    The very palpable difference is, you guys come here, flame for fun, make blanket statements, more than sometimes are factually incorrect, can't admit anything, then complain when you're called out on it.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,852
    edited September 2012
    5,200 units is pretty small. I will admit that.

    http://www.autoblog.com/2012/09/14/honda-recalling-2007-11-element-2012-ridgelin- e-models/

    I did chuckle at the comments posted underneath the recall announcement online.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Have you DRIVEN the Altima? Have you even SAT in one? Or does "Look Asian" trump seat comfort, legroom, power, and handling?
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    The fact that he isn't showing balance does not obviate the fact that you aren't showing balance either. Or should I bring up the Altima again? :shades:
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,852
    edited September 2012
    No, I have not so much as sat in an Altima.

    You did not see me start the conversation with "The Altima is awful/stinks/etc.".

    I cannot buy a car I think looks 'alien', as lemko puts. It doesn't have to be beautiful--but it can't look 'alien'. That would trump a lot of things for me.

    I like 'made by a U.S.-based company' (as opposed to a company in a country whose goal was to kill us, only several years before I was born), good domestic content, assembled in U.S., and with a better warranty than others. Add in looks, excellent dealer, low maintenance costs, and that's what keeps me where I am.

    If you want an Altima, fine..celebrate them over on the Altima forum.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,852
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    In other words, yes, the car's looks trump power, handling, comfort, safety, fuel economy, legroom, and basically everything else.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    I don't complain. You might be taking opinion for fact so I'll use more IMHO when I make claims like: "The Cobalt Stinks,IMHO".

    I'll try to be more correct like you.

    Here's one for you that is fact.

    In the 1960s, GM averaged a 48.3% share of the U.S. car and truck market. For the first 7 months of 2012, their market share was 18.0%, down from 20.0% for the same period in 2011.

    Let me know when they regain their top historical market share. Current Malibu ain't gonna do it!

    In their March 2012 issue, Car and Driver published another D-Segment comparison test, pitting the 2013 Chevy Malibu Eco against five competing vehicles. This time, the Malibu came in dead last.

    Not only was the 2013 Malibu (183 points) crushed by the winning 2012 Volkswagen Passat (211 points), it was soundly beaten by the 2012 Honda Accord (198 points), a 5-model-year-old design due for replacement this fall. Worst of all, the 2013 Malibu scored (and placed) lower than the 2008 Malibu would have in the same test.

    Uh-oh.
    :)

    Regards,
    OW
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    edited September 2012
    I cannot buy a car I think looks 'alien', as lemko puts. It doesn't have to be beautiful--but it can't look 'alien'. That would trump a lot of things for me.

    image

    A picture is worth 1,000 words. ;)

    Regards,
    OW
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited September 2012
    Looks like a typical small sedan to me. Not that much different than my '82 Tercel was, just a bit curvier in spots. Nothing "alien" about it.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    That doesn't look alien...definitely not a word I'd use.

    There are other words I'd use:

    Boring
    Dull
    Tasteless
    Bland
    Anonymous
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,852
    edited September 2012
    Agreed, Steve. Mine with AC, ABS, satellite radio, and side moldings was a great buy at $9,900-odd, and I still think so 60K miles later. And hey, it helped employ people where I live now, and people where I grew up, 70 miles away. Win-win, big picture. 100K mile powertrain warranty, including wheel bearings. What other car that could be bought at that price, at that time, with that equipment, is more stylish?

    'Alien' to me means 'insectoid', as lemko once put it....long, slanting taillights and/or headlights, funky emblems and nameplates, etc.

    And you did not hear me say 'The Altima stinks IMHO'.

    And as usual circle, you post something without a link to see the complete story. Did the magazine actually say it would have scored less than the 2008 Malibu? First I've heard that one here. It's no secret that the Eco wasn't a favorite, but I've yet to see a review that did not say they'd have enjoyed a non-Eco version better. Another thing I've repeatedly seen in reviews is 'don't overlook the Malibu'.

    I wouldn't buy an Eco either. And the legroom bothers me in the big picture of things because it is less than the previous car. But there are other things about the current car that look nicer than the previous car. I'll concede that styling in profile isn't one of them IMHO.

    Has anyone seen/read/done anything to see if the published rear legroom in the Sonata--over two inches less than the Malibu--is accurate/inaccurate or what? The cars compete in that class, so it's worth mentioning.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,852
    Looks...country of origin and manufacture, and a longer warranty...a known excellent customer service experience at my dealer...you left all those things out.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,022
    In other words, yes, the car's looks trump power, handling, comfort, safety, fuel economy, legroom, and basically everything else.

    I have to admit, that I'm swayed by style. So, if I found one car to be drop-dead-gorgeous and the others all looked like toads, I'd probably buy it, even if it came at a slight expense of fuel economy, power, handling, etc. But, overall, that expense would have to be slight.

    however, with the current crop of cars out there, I don't find any of them pretty enough, or ugly enough, that style alone would sway my decision. I don't find the 2013 Altima to be particularly attractive, but I don't find it ugly enough to not consider one, if I needed a new car. And, its other attributes (performance, fuel economy, comfort, and so on) look pretty good...at least on paper.

    And the Malibu, while it looked pleasant enough, turned me off a bit just from sitting in it, and I didn't even drive it. Made me think of that Eugene Levy line from "National Lampoon's Vacation". "You may think you hate it now, but wait til you drive it!" :P
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    I wouldn't buy an Eco either. And the legroom bothers me in the big picture of things because it is less than the previous car. But there are other things about the current car that look nicer than the previous car. I'll concede that styling in profile isn't one of them IMHO.

    See? It's not so hard. Come over to the dark side with us. Maybe GM will listen to our criticism and improve. :)
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,852
    edited September 2012
    What's your take on the Sonata's published rear-seat legroom (two inches less than Malibu)? I've not looked in one--but I think I could probably state the rear-seat headroom is less, just from looking at one go by. It seems hard to believe they'd make a mistake about publishing a number that is so disadvantageous when compared to other cars, but maybe it's an Edmunds mistake, who knows? Recall that rebates on Edmunds' site didn't match Chevy's own site a few months back.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited September 2012
    Sort of reminds me of the Echo that replaced the Tercel but more sedate. I'd drive one of those too, although my minivan is a classier looking ride, lol.

    I drove "around" Pontiac last week but have never taken the exits to actually see the town. Sounds like it's not going away anytime soon, thanks to GM.

    Pontiac Stamping pressing ahead (Detroit News)

    I need to get off the freeway one of these trips and check out Flint too.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,852
    Now Steve, you ought to know by now that employing people in auto plants in the midwest is a bad thing! ;)
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I'm okay with GM helping my family down in Tennessee too. :shades:
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    I'm wondering how they got the legroom figures, because I can sit in the back seat reasonably. Not quite as reasonably as an Impreza, which has to be sticking in Hyundai's craw a bit, but that's one of the reasons no one adopts a standard for legroom measurements: they all want the capability of fudging them. I'd like to know how GM got the rear seat legroom for the Malibu too, since it's actually very tight in real life.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,852
    As I said, one would think the SAE would have a standard for published dimensions like that, but probably not.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,852
    edited August 2012
    That's good news. Glad to see sales of the Equinox up 16.6%, even though I don't care for the looks of them!
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    They'd be okay if they just had sliding doors. :D
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    edited September 2012
    I looked at Hyundai's site and that number you posted is correct. I don't think rear leg room is the deciding factor most base a decision on. If it's clearly not enoubut gh, then it may be an issue on an individual basis. I don't recall reading any complaints regarding rear seat room on the sonatas.

    It does seem like posted numbers don't tell the whole story. Some cars just feel like they have more room despite numbers that say otherwise.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,022
    I don't know if they're still doing it, but at one time the legroom measurements they published were maximum for the front seat, and minimum for the back seat. That seemed to work fine back in the old days when front seats only went forward and back. But with reclining seatbacks, seats that go up and down, angle back, etc, it can make a big difference.

    I haven't looked at a Consumer Reports lately, but the way they measured legroom at one time was to put the front seat back to something like 41 inches (if it went back that far...in the old days, some didn't), and then measure what they called "fore-aft" seating room. This was how much horizontal distance you had from the seatback. It was usually a number ranging from around 20-30". Nowadays when they measure legroom, the number usually ranges from about 30-40", so they're also working in the factor of how high the rear seat cushion is from the floor.

    As for the Hyundai Sonata, I sat in one at the auto show when they first came out. Don't remember it all that well, but I don't remember legroom being a problem in back.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,852
    Ironically, I think I'm the first person on this site to mention the reduction in rear-seat legroom, when I looked into the windows of the first '13 Eco my dealer got in six months or so ago!
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,852
    since it's actually very tight in real life.

    Since I think I'm the first to bring up rear seat legroom in the '13--have you sat in the back of one? Like I said, yesterday was the first time I had. It was OK for me, but the backseat of our '11 feels almost cavernous to me in comparison.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    If I liked the Malibu overall I doubt rear legroom would keep me from buying one. I'll never be sitting back there and having daughters I seriously doubt it would pose a problem.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Depends on one's priorities. It's not a high priority for me but I'd still like to know I can carry a human being in the back seat without having the steering wheel in my chest or not, so I always test it. For some people who carry teenagers in the back regularly it would be very important.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,852
    So have you tried one out?
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    I agree it certainly could be an issue.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Trying to figure out how to do so without actually going to the local Chevy dealer, they're the biggest crooks around.
  • greg128greg128 Member Posts: 546
    without actually going to the local Chevy dealer, they're the biggest crooks around.

    Of course. They all are, although my worst car buying experience was when we bought a Nissan Maxima. I felt like I needed a decontamination procedure afterwards.

    Best experience by far was Saturn.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,022
    For some people who carry teenagers in the back regularly it would be very important.

    I'd imagine even infants and toddlers who have to be put in a child car seat could be a problem, if there's not enough room back there. Those things are supposed to be facing backwards, right? That's going to take up more space than making it face forward.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Would you marry a woman if she was a fantastic cook, had a great personality, very intelligent, graceful, wonderful with the children, awesome in the "intimate" sense, and loyal to a fault, and treated you like a king but was so weird-looking and homely you couldn't stand to look at her and were ashamed to be seen with her in public?
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Looks pretty ordinary to me, but I'm not, and never was, in the market for a subcompact no matter who manufactures it or from where it comes.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,022
    edited September 2012
    No I wouldn't marry her, but I might go to her house on a regular basis for dinner and desert! :shades:
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Would you marry a woman if she was a fantastic cook, had a great personality, very intelligent, graceful, wonderful with the children, awesome in the "intimate" sense, and loyal to a fault, and treated you like a king but was so weird-looking and homely you couldn't stand to look at her and were ashamed to be seen with her in public?

    Answer: Yes. That's why they made the Kia Optima! The home and family life would fantastic and the looker goes on the road! :P

    Regards,
    OW
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Actually, the best car buying experience I had was when my wife bought a new 2001 Chevrolet Impala.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    So, you would marry the ugly chick but would have a mistress on the side? :P
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,408
    From what I know, Enterprise often gets cars when they are too miled up or worn for National and Alamo (same corporate family). So, to receive anything that is nice is to be very lucky. I've never had a mint low mileage Enterprise car.

    The VW light was probably a faulty light, it is a VW after all.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,408
    I don't see anything really wrong with the Cobalt. It is very Opel-ish to me,and in the GM family, that's not a bad thing. It is also several years old now, and that must be kept in mind if comparing to 2013 designs.

    Asian designs tend to be "alien" or cartoonish. That being said, I'd rather drive an alien than a pokemon :shades:
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    edited September 2012
    I can't even drive an Enterprise car as is. I take it home and clean it up really nice before it hits the road with me. The Enterprise folks sure like it when I rent from them as the car returns in a LOT better condtion than when I go it. It's probably the best treatment that poor car will receive in its entire lifetime.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Would you marry a woman if she was a fantastic cook, had a great personality, very intelligent, graceful, wonderful with the children, awesome in the "intimate" sense, and loyal to a fault, and treated you like a king but was so weird-looking and homely you couldn't stand to look at her and were ashamed to be seen with her in public?

    Yes. Because just like with cars, what's inside is more important and what you have to deal with every day. :shades:
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    edited September 2012
    My best experience was with Mazda. Hyundai not so much. This Chevy dealer was always bad...three different owners, now they're owned by the largest dealer group in the area, and they're still just as bad. Last time I went there, to check out the Cruze, I ended up with a salesman that seemed strangely familiar. Remembered later that he was the same salesman who sold me a used Corsica over a decade prior...and two dealership owners prior. So I bet the staff is still the same despite the ownership changes.
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