Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
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The Aura is a great car. It is comfortable and quiet. The 3.6 V-6 will blow the doors off of a Turbo Sonata and returned 31MPG on a recent trip and on regular gas. It does not use one drop of oil between changes. I compare that to the numerous complaints on Edumunds of other models using excessive oil. (Including VW, Honda, Audi, and Toyota) Despite being in the elements for the last 4 years the paint is still like glass, The interior leather looks like the day we bought it. I don't consider it a perfect vehicle and I am sure it will experience some problems in the future, as all do. But I am very satisfied with the car and the purchase price ( $24k in 2008 fully loaded)
My Silverado reminds me of the 3 or 4 Ford F-150's I have owned in the past that I use for my job. It feels like it will run forever. I know the powertrain has had all of the bugs worked out 20 years ago, and it rides better and is quieter than my BL's Acura TL. By the way my cousin's Acura RDX with the turbo 4Cl. reminded me of my 1976 VW rabbit's vibrating shifter at idle. It seemed very unrefined to me, and the interior looked cheap.
My son had 2000 Cavalier we bought new and had 200,000 trouble free miles until the head gasket went. It could have been fixed for around $1000
but wasn't worth it considering the worth of the vehicle. I do admit that car had a bad ride. He currently has a 2007 Cobalt which has a much smoother suspension. I drove his car a few hundred miles on a road trip we took together, and I found it to be at least a comfortable as my wife's previous Nissan Maxima, albeit having less room. His only issue in 90,000 miles was a wheel bearing.
Our business had a 1989 Chevy Astro that went 320,000 miles. My neighbor still uses his 1986 Chevy Suburban to plow snow 15 years after a Toyota Truck is ready for the scrap heap due to its cheap, light, rusting frame.
P.S My ot her son is leasing a VW Jetta. I cannot believe this car would get a positive review after sitting in the seats for 1.5 minutes moving it out of the driveway.
And on a 2007 Cobalt, this would be a warranty issue with the standard powertrain warranty.
I'm just not one of those people who is so brand loyal that I think any brand is "superior". I may have my preferences, but I can see the strengths (and warts) of all brands, and of many vehicles within those brands.
It's just incomprehensible to me that I would like one vehicle from a manufacturer and then based upon that good experience, I would NEVER even consider any other makes. I feel like I would be missing out on my ability to get the best (whatever that would mean to me, YMMV) if I limited myself in such a substantial way.
Seriously, Even with your good experiences, know that GM failed MANY customers. You don't loose market share if you consistently make superior products. GM doesn't, even now. I admit some cars are getting better but not superior by a long shot.
Regards,
OW
BTW, it's 'lose', not 'loose'.
Believe what you want.
Regards,
OW
Newer cars of mine, even cheapo ones: after asking for torque stick each time and receiving verbal confirmation, no rotor warping.
Hmmmm.
Maybe you need to go to a different dealer.
The '08 CR-V has 58K and no signs of a "check engine" light. :shades:
By now, you know the story of my GMC Yukon Denali experience, well below 50K miles and many issues. Why am I not experiencing the same nightmares???
Change is great!
Regards,
OW
I can't tell you how I'd rather have the check engine light on my Cobalt than rotors that constantly warp...like the 2012 Honda Odyssey.
I'll also take a Check Engine light of this nature to the many complaints about automatic transmissions that exist on Edmunds' forums for all manner of Odysseys.
Simple.
Regards,
OW
It's about respectfully calling b******t on some of you guys.
I genuinely could not be happier with my Cobalt, particularly when purchase price and assembly location is factored in...'big picture' stuff.
Could someone spend more, perhaps much more, and get a better product? Sure.
Could someone spend the same and get a lesser product? You bet.
I've owned several Asian and European makes in my 30+ years of driving. I've also owned Ford, Chrysler, and GM products. Today's GM products easily match the competition and in many cases, beat the competition.
The "inferior GM product" talk must be from those who don't know the vehicle quality at GM today. GM had come so far in the last 10 years it is astounding.
This coming from a Silverado owner, comical. I don't think any vehicle has a cheaper looking, lower quality interior than that of a GMT-800 based GM vehicle (oh wait, that would be in an 80's GM truck). Trust me I know, I suffered with a Suburban for way to long. Cheap to look at, cheap to touch, I'd drive down washboard gravel roads and interior parts often would fall off. What didn't fall off would rattle and vibrate violently.
During the summer I often drive my friends trucks to help launch their boats etc in. Each time I get in an '99-'06 GM truck (which is often), I can't believe I tolerated my '00 Suburban as long as I did. To me no matter the mileage, they all drive like they have 300k+ miles on them and look and feel like it too. Oh, but they do have a soft ride.
As for average transaction prices by brand, it's not an apples to apples comparison. Fullsize and SUVs skew the numbers big time. Off the top of my head, the Cruze is the only GM car that sell at a higher transaction price than it's direct competition.
Some of GM's SUVs probably sell at higher prices than those from Toy/Hon/Nissan I'd guess.
I do think most of GM's latest designed models are at minimum competitive. But right now, you name a category and the odds that I'd pick a GM product are low. It's not all bias. I do like the Cruze/Sonic, but past those, I prefer other vehicles, foreign and domestic. That doesn't mean current GM products are junk, just that their are reasons I prefer other models.
I am trying to wait until the new GM pickups and full Size SUVs arrive so I can at least drive one. That's if I can tolerate my 07 Expedition that long. At 110k it's starting to show and feel it's age. I just can't seem to drive a vehicle to really high mileage as the little things that degrade bother me. That said, my Expedition has held up far better overall than my Suburban did. It's far from perfect, but it has held up well enough considering the abuse it gets.
Using the logic here in this iteration of your question, which GM cars do you currently own so that you can respond on this discussion about GM cars?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I never did like the interior of my uncle's '97 Silverado, which we used in trade. The seats were pretty nice, and the carpeting and fabric on the door panels were a nice touch, but the plastics just seemed low-rent, and the design of the dash and such seemed a mess in general.
Surprisingly though, it held up fairly well. With almost 138,000 miles on it, there were no rips, tears, or cracks. Nothing was falling off, although the cruise control didn't work. It was pretty dirty inside, but that was my uncle's fault moreso than GMs. He's a construction worker, and would often get into it muddy and dirty, spill coffee or drinks in it, etc.
I think the GM trucks improved their interiors considerably for 2007. But, over time Dodge and Ford have as well.
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1212_2012_2013_midsize_sedan_comparis- on/chevrolet_malibu.html
I did enjoy that C&D recently liked the older Silverado HD2500 over the Ford Super-Duty F-series...and it's an older design by far overall.
I think so. Though in my experience that can be a liability when loaded up and towing. My Expedition is firmer than my Suburban was and the same year Suburban and Yukon I when I bought it. But on the flip side it doesn't sag and wallow as bad when towing our 6,000lb boat. But I prefer a firmer more controlled ride vs. soft and loose. When loaded down with gear and trailer the Suburban would wallow and float more than I liked.
But on a test drive, the Suburban definitely had a softer and smoother ride.
I have a boating/camping friend that has a very clean '98 Silverado extended cab 4x4 with about 110k on it. No, I don't like how it drives, but it does ride nice. Certainly a truck I don't mind being a passenger and it has held up well except for fuel pumps.
So that means the Korean Kia's clone/rebadge has the same "short"-coming?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
So the C&D truck test is legit yet the car comparo is not? I find both informative, but I have issues with both. Why test a Fusion with a manual trans against autos in all of the other cars. While I think it's great you can get a manual in the Fusion, I want to see the auto version in the comparison since that's what all of the other cars had.
Most buyers don't look at it that way as the HD Ford owns that segment with nearly 50% of sales.
I know the mags generally test what the manufacturers give them, but comparing the price of a King Ranch to a Silverado LTZ is not apples to apples. As GM will have a Highlander(IIRC) package to compete with the King Ranch with the redesign.
I think the '13 will sell on price, warranty, and being an American brand that is built in America.
I seriously doubt it, it may end up being the fleet sales leader though. Plus I think the new Impala will eat into some Malibu sales too.
The reported gas mileage was horrible in the Malibu at 4-5 mpg less than the other cars. Yeah, just what I want, a buzzy 4 banger that gets v6 gas mileage. I'll be curious how the Malibu fares in other comparisons, but I doubt it will be much better.
Maybe, but neither were included in the C&D comparo.
I was replying to Uplander's post about the Korean Hyunda Sonata.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I know, I was kind of responding to both of you regarding the rear leg room debate on the Sonata. I don't know if it's an issue or not. The reviews of the current Malibu all seem to mention the lack of leg room. But whether it's better or worse than the Sonata I haven't a clue. I do know measurements rarely tell the whole story.
IMO, that front seat number sounds WAY too optimistic. I think most cars fall between 41.5 and 42.5" of front seat legroom, with even 43" being way generous.
And that back seat number just sounds small to me as well...something you'd expect out of a compact rather than a midsized car.
Personally though, I've found that those published specs often have little correlation to how well I actually fit in the car. For example, I think my old Dodge Intrepid was rated at 42.2" of front seat legroom, and seemed barely adequate to me. Yet my '79 New Yorker, with 42.3", seems to fit me perfectly. Now, how could .1 inch make that much difference? My old '89 Gran Fury was rated at 42.5", yet I don't remember it seeming any better than the '79.
And oddly, when the RWD 300/C/Magnum/Charger came out, they were only rated something like 41.7 or 41.8", and they fit me just fine.
Oh, and here's an odd one, on a personal note. Just looked up the legroom spec on my 2012 Ram. 41.0". Yet, it fits me just fine. The 2012 Silverado is rated 41.5", so in theory it feel even better. Yet, from memories of sitting in them at auto shows (which admittedly can be inaccurate), I remember the Silverado feeling tighter.
And so often, 'perception is reality' with people, or they come in with preconceived notions.
I had a buddy who refused to ride in the back of my old Cavalier coupe to an old car meet in PA. It wasn't about luxury or not; it was about space. He was OK with riding in the backseat of another buddy's Lexus LS400 (which didn't happen). I showed him that the Cavalier actually had more rear-seat legroom than a Lexus LS400. Didn't get much more than a 'harrumph' out of him.
"Unlike the Malibu, the Altima will accommodate actual adults in back, but it won't treat them as well as our top three."
They also mentioned that the Altima was the only car in the test, where a 6-foot tall passenger's head grazed the ceiling. I remember that being a problem with the 2007-12 style. It had enough legroom for me in back, but the seat was low and thinly padded, and my head brushed the ceiling.
And, C&D also called the Malibu's back seat "nearly useless". Heck, it's almost as if they read my mind! I'm surprised that they slammed it for the interior. It does have a bit of a retro look to it, borrowing from the Camaro, which itself tries to evoke fuzzy memories of the '68 Camaro. But, I like it, and think it seems a decent effort overall.
Back to the Altima...they also whined about it having a velour interior that should have died out in the 70's. Hmm, are they trying to deter me or lure me in? :shades:
Looks like the Malibu is the same as the Korean twins in rear headroom, at least by the numbers. For me, I am short enough I don't test the headroom in most rear seats. Only the super-sloped aero versions might be close for my head.
As you said, these measurements feel different when one actually sits in the car.
I checked the Malibu last week while my wife had a card club gathering and I wanted away from the house. I liked the room in the Malibu but wanted to compare to a Cruze. The store didn't have a Cruze in the showroom, so I'll compare later.
I stopped at the Ford store first to see the 13 Fusion. The salesman jumped me as I opened my car door. Asked if I had an appointment to see someone, I said "No" and he immediately was my friend. However, he said they didn't have any 13 Fusions. I commented I had seen a white one go through drive thru at Chick Fil A that day. He said it must be on of the "testers" they had out. But they didn't expect one for couple weeks. He shouldn't have lied about "testers" and just said another store must have gotten them earlier than his store got them.
After being brushed off by my new friend at Ford, I didn't want to bother at the nearby stores for Nissan and Tyota and one of the Korean twins. It was near dusk due to the weather.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
He said he drove a rental '13 Malibu, sunroof and leather, the week prior in anticipation of a drive to Michigan, which had a flat tire so in Cleveland, Enterprise gave him a '12 Altima. Per him, the Altima 'felt like s**t compared to the Malibu'. Didn't really question him on it, as there were Studebakers to be discussed.
It's supposed to be a BMW 3-series fighter. Does it do that? Yes. Does it beat the 3 series? Not at all. Does it compare favorably? In certain areas, yes, but in others its deficient. But that isn't the problem.
GM is asking BMW prices for something that is clearly ALMOST a BMW, but doesn't quite make the cut. Eventually the incentives will have to come out, but by then the damage will have been done. GM priced it too high. There is NOTHING wrong with offering 90% of a BMW for 80% of the price. The problem is in thinking it's 100% of the BMW, and charging 99% of the price. If they had started off charging less, they'd probably have more of a home run. Which they need.
And if the mags don't particularly like the new 2.5 4cyl in a Malibu, what will they think of it in a car like the ATS. That's a real head scratcher, why use that engine at all?
Simple, BMW underrates output.
Start/stop on that car shakes the whole vehicle like an earthquake. BMW is their own worst enemy. Put that tech back in the oven, it's undercooked.
http://www.autoblog.com/2012/10/01/honda-recalling-over-570-000-accord-sedans-fo- r-power-steering-is/
Conspiracy Theory alert: Honda is going to try to sell these customers on the new Accord and this forces them in to show rooms. Wanna bet they get a sales surge?
If the current version doesn't get you in the door, Nissan is planning to roll out the Altima Regency Brougham in Light Jade Green metallic, with loose-pillow look bucket seats upholstered in dark green velour.
Or just give in and buy one of those clean 1977-84 Buick or Oldsmobile B- or C-bodies we always see at the big Carlisle shows.
Heck, that may get Lemko to buy a foreign car!
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
It can be disabled I hope. I know I wouldn't want a car with it.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
Remember when it was the opposite, and they'd say straight line performance didn't mean much?
Fix that shifter, though. They're not the first to complain. I wonder if it's just a lack of experience with that type of power train. A lot of Caddy firsts.
Great one. You made my belly laugh of the day award group. It's in the mail.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Numbers only mean so much. They acknowledge where the ATS excels but more than one review has mentioned a few shortcomings that don't show up on a drag strip, skid pad, or slalom.
Still, there's something about the ATS that doesn't seem as refined and polished as we'd like. For example, the manual transmission's shift lever doesn't move between gears very smoothly, and the kind of rushed shifts that we only employ during testing are regularly rejected.
Granted I seriously doubt many will be equipped with a manual trans, this is the second review that has mentioned a lousy shift linkage. I forget where the other review came from. But it was a video and the 328i was picked over the ATS solely due to how bad the shift linkage was in their car. Maybe their sample was the same one used by Edmunds and is an isolated case.
Regards,
OW
http://youtu.be/Xp_LsA-aWU0
Regards,
OW