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GM News, New Models and Market Share

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  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Total sales of 210,245 were, however, GM's best September tally since pre-bankruptcy 2008.

    Cars, not trucks, did the heavy hauling for GM, up 29% overall, while the full-size Chevrolet Silverado pickup was down 16.6% and the big Tahoe SUV was off 46.7%.

    GM wound up with a whopping 116-day supply of full-size pickups at the end of the month, down slightly from August, but out of balance with GM's 82-day supply of all vehicles (itself high, a 60-day supply at dealers and in transit is considered normal).
    "General Motors had a choppy month," said Michelle Krebs, analyst at Edmunds.com. "Sales of the Chevrolet Cruze zoomed" but "Cadillac, despite have two new models on the market, is somehow struggling."


    Regards,
    OW
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    There were cranking them out because they will miss ~21 weeks of production as they changeover and retool for the new Silverados.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,849
    I think even my mother would have known that.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,849
    And don't forget, all Honda's built in the last decade had their auto trannys fail, too

    Sure looks that way over on the Odyssey forum! ;)

    And the one person I know with one had the problem. Anecdotal? Yes, but 100% of my population.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,669
    edited October 2012
    And the VCM is giving trouble too. Oil use. Sparkplugs failing. What does VCM stand for? Very Crappy Motor? ;)

    I know. I know. It's only 0.0000001% of all VCM's sold? It's like the sludge gel that didn't really exist? grin.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    There were cranking them out because they will miss ~21 weeks of production as they changeover and retool for the new Silverados.

    GM's been running a much higher day supply on trucks than Ford for a while. IMO, if inventory is being ramped up to cover the change over you wouldn't see the huge incentives GM is offering on pickups. The Silverado's sales were down 16.6% in September, almost 20k units behind the f series. The Ram was only 10k units behind.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,849
    Is any of this a shocker with GM's trucks being the oldest in the industry? I pose the question seriously.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    From what I understand the spark plug and oil use are attributed to the VCM issue.

    That's what happened to my dads 09 Accord V6. Around 60k miles it fouled some plugs, then the oil consumption spiked around 80k, he didn't check the oil and basically blew the engine. Honda stepped up and fixed everything for $100. Now he's really sold on Honda as the Accord is his first non-GM or Ford and he never received that kind of service from them.

    As for Honda reliability, I know they're not bullet proof. But when I drive them, they have a quality that I like that is simply lacking in most other vehicles. My dad's accord is just so much better built than my wife's '11 Taurus. It feels much tighter, the powertrain is far smoother.

    My brother has a '10 Fusion Sport that I really like. Actually, overall I like it better than my dad's '09 Accord. But the Fusion still doesn't feel as solid and Ford's 3.5 v6 (while reliable) is simply not in the same league in refinement.

    As for Odysseys, no matter how many transmissions or engines they go through, they're still a heck of a lot better overall than any minivan from Ford or GM.

    My BIL recently bought a used '07 Odyssey with like 40k miles on it. Being fully aware of some of the severe issues the van may have, he simply bought a 100k extended warranty. So he's fully covered for the period own the van. Not a big deal. If something major fails he's covered.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,849
    As for Odysseys, no matter how many transmissions or engines they go through, they're still a heck of a lot better overall than any minivan from Ford or GM.

    My BIL recently bought a used '07 Odyssey with like 40k miles on it. Being fully aware of some of the severe issues the van may have, he simply bought a 100k extended warranty. So he's fully covered for the period own the van. Not a big deal. If something major fails he's covered.


    It's this kind of blanket statement and pre-conceived notion that has guys like me just constantly saying, "WTH?" Forgiving trans failure is a BIG forgive.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Is any of this a shocker with GM's trucks being the oldest in the industry? I pose the question seriously.

    No it's not a surprise. GM should have never let them get so far behind. I think Ford has updated the f-150 3 times since '07 and an all new f150 will be out a year after the new GM trucks. GM better be swinging for the fences or the '14 truck will be behind again the following year.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    edited October 2012
    Forgiving trans failure is a BIG forgive.

    Yes it is. But the reality is the Oddy is a great van overall. Well laid out, drives nice, performs great, gets good FE. Pimples or not, it still a far better family vehicle than a large crossover from Ford or GM.

    I've owned a variety of vehicles from a variety of makes. Fact is, some of my favorites were not very reliable. One was down right lousy in terms of reliability. Still loved it and forgave it until the extended warranty ran out. Then I moved on. It was a '98 Ford SVT Contour. I loved that car, though quality was not job one.

    I had to foot the bill for a trans rebuild in my Suburban at 46k miles. Honestly, if I would have liked how it performed, if it wouldn't have felt like it wasn't slapped together with parts from the lowest bidder, and if it wouldn't have continually have various problems, the trans failure wouldn't have been a big deal.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,669
    >It's this kind of blanket statement and pre-conceived notion that has guys like me just constantly saying, "WTH?" Forgiving trans failure is a BIG forgive.

    I can almost hear the person making these blanket forgivness statements saying the phrase they like to use in the ads to play on the past earlier reputation people gave Hondas:

    "It's a (intake of breath) Honda," almost as though just saying the word Honda makes a chill go up their leg.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,921
    Bush, who signed the auto bailout, deserves a pat on the back for that one.

    I'll provide a pat on the back if he refunds the billions and billions lost if we sell the stock right now.

    Of course, that's the point, taxpayers are still on the hook for massive losses on this investment, even years later.

    When will this bailout ever payoff?

    And don't give me a bunch of manure about everyone being unemployed because if you can't work on autos, you can't work on anything, right?

    I'm sure McDonald's would love to hire some former UAW workers; start working on my hamburger and fries!

    Or perhaps they could have retrained and Apple could be manufacturing Iphones in the US instead of China; the possibilities are endless, but what was certain was that GM investment would lose money.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    No, what's certain is that us investing in GM would lose US money. The POINT was for us to invest in GM so that GM would gain money. Objective accomplished. Of course, now they have to deal with the side effects of extorting the American people through the government, which generally does not produce warm fuzzy feelings...
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,921
    No, what's certain is that us investing in GM would lose US money. The POINT was for us to invest in GM so that GM would gain money. Objective accomplished.

    I see your point. I think a law should be passed requiring every politician that voted for the bailout to provide a check for $100,000 to all the politicians campaign funds that didn't vote for it, and then another check of equal amount to the US Treasury to make up for US losses on putting money in GM. I know it'll just barely make a dent, but it's a start.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Show me where I wrote sludge did not exist, or that no Honda trannys failed.

    You can't.

    I'm certainly not saying/repeating those cars are perfect over and over, no car is.

    In fact that arrogance could be one reason problems creep up - if you think a vehicle is bullet-proof you might be skipping maintenance. That's just foolish.

    Every brand has its achilles heel. Some are more trouble prone that others. Others more reliable. Picking a historically reliable car will only improve your odds, but not guarantee perfection.

    Every brand builds a lemon once in a while.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I won't offer a rebuttle because of the idea of an ex-UAW worker at McDonalds actually sounds funny. :D
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    You should sign up for Truedelta, log your miles and any repairs you may have.

    I like them because they get a VIN plus you have to check in every once in a while. The data is live and recent, and IMHO more reliable than a paper survey once a year that's susceptible to ballot stuffing.

    Ody and Caravan actually go back and forth, both have OK years and bad years. Since 2005 the Sienna beats them both consistently, so those shopping for reliability shouldn't really even be looking at the Honda.

    But you have a point, the Ody has not been consistently reliable. Even the 2011 rates a little bit below average.

    My BIL just bought a used Pilot, it's over 100k miles now. Let's see how his holds up. 2008 I think.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    edited October 2012
    I use truedelta and it is interesting. Though with the vehicles I track their results aren't much different than CU or other rating sources. FWIW, CU rates the Odyssey below average overall for most years.

    Also, on Truedelta, an 07 Odyssey isn't any worse than an 07 Uplander (both are above average). I dont' know about you, but I know which I van I'd rather have.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,849
    Recall, dieselone, that C&D recently rated the Silverado HD2500 better than the Ford Super-Duty. Impressive IMO since it's an older design.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,849
    I think the Chevy looks better and doesn't have a shifter sticking out of the dash, but that's me. I know I'm wayyyyyyyy outnumbered!
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The difference is you get really early reports with TrueDelta, the same year a car comes out, even.

    It's like having a preview of future ratings by the others.

    The 2011 Ody is a bit below average on TrueDelta, FWIW, other recent years seem to do OK, though.

    v1.0 is a risk no matter the brand. That's the year the new model came out, and I'm sure that's not a coincidence.

    Traverse is a better effort than Uplander was, just MHO. I'm helping a friend shop for one of those now.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Recall, dieselone, that C&D recently rated the Silverado HD2500 better than the Ford Super-Duty. Impressive IMO since it's an older design.

    Personally I don't agree with their results, but they are what they are.

    Which one sells better? Ford Super Duties outsell GM HD trucks nearly 2 to 1.

    Okay, so the Silverado was quicker. Few care about that (the Ford isn't slow), it's the lightest truck of the group which presents other issues like.

    It was, ­however, the only truck to exhibit any untoward bucking movements from the trailer’s inertia.

    Yeah, that's what I want in a truck I'd buy for towing. Shimming and shaking down the road. That stuff causes driver fatigue on long tows.

    “This would be a cheap interior in a $30,000 truck,” noted one test driver. Compared with the others’ opulent fittings, the Silverado was a dismal place to sit: an expanse of chintzy, dark plastic; the least comfortable front seats; and the tightest rear quarters.

    That would stop me right there.

    Yeah, that's what I want in a $60k vehicle. Okay, the Silverado is easier to park and is a bit quicker. Basically it's truck to use if you don't need a 3/4 ton truck or you don't have to sit in it much. It was cheaper than a King Ranch. No kidding, if Ford would have sent a Lariat the pricing would have been more inline. (Granted GM probably is placing a lot more money on the hood, but maybe not on the HD trucks).

    The only area the Ford was disappointing was in excessively long stopping distances.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Traverse is a better effort than Uplander was, just MHO. I'm helping a friend shop for one of those now.


    Oh by far, but it's still not a minivan. No doubt it's competitive against the likes of a Pilot and Explorer etc.

    Though if you look at true delta the Pilot consistently is rated as more reliable than the Traverse, some years the Traverse is far worse.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    True, but Traverse has a longer warranty (5/100 vs. 5/60).
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    edited October 2012
    True, but Traverse has a longer warranty (5/100 vs. 5/60).

    I know some people think that's a big deal. But I never have and never will pick a vehicle based on the warranty. I have to like the vehicle first.

    It's been my experience that once the 36k bumper to bumper expires repair costs are possible. None of the problems I've had with my Expedition between 36k to 100k miles were covered by Ford's 60k powertrain warranty and neither would GM's 100k warranty.

    I dropped $1,000 at the Ford dealer at 59k for ignition issues that weren't covered by the 60k powertrain warranty.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    To me it's not a big deal, I've never driven more than 60k miles on one car in that amount of time.

    Of course I have 2 cars and they split my mileage, so I'm atypical.

    I guess the fine print on warranty is big enough to drive an engine through. How's the powertrain going to work without ignition?
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    edited October 2012
    How's the powertrain going to work without ignition?

    Because I guess it's not listed under

    Your vehicle’s Powertrain components are covered for five years or
    60,000 miles, whichever occurs first. The extended coverage applies to
    the Engine: all internal lubricated parts, cylinder block, cylinder heads,
    electrical fuel pump, electronic engine control unit, engine mounts,
    flywheel, injection pump, manifold (exhaust and intake), manifold bolts,
    oil pan, oil pump, seals and gaskets, thermostat, thermostat housing,
    timing chain cover, timing chain (gears or belt),
    turbocharger/supercharger unit, valve covers, water pump;
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    To me it's not a big deal, I've never driven more than 60k miles on one car in that amount of time.

    Most people don't. I do because my Expedition is the primary family hauling trip taking vehicle, so it rarely sits still.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,021
    It's been my experience that once the 36k bumper to bumper expires repair costs are possible. None of the problems I've had with my Expedition between 36k to 100k miles were covered by Ford's 60k powertrain warranty and neither would GM's 100k warranty.

    My old Dodge Intrepid had a 3/36K bumper to bumper warranty, but nothing extra for powertrain. In my naivety, I bought an extended warranty that took it out to 5 years/100K miles.

    The only warranty repair that car ever needed came around 35,000 miles, when the power lock actuator in the driver's door started acting up.

    Oh, I did have one repair that the extended warranty would have covered. Around 51,000 miles the thermostat housing had to be replaced because it had a slow leak. My local mechanic charged me $210 to do it. The deductible on that warranty was $200. :(
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    And if I was GM, I'd be quaking in my taxpayer-funded sensible shoes. All of the big players might be lucky Mazda is a niche player, and only cares about owning their particular niche, instead of world domination. :shades:

    http://www.autoblog.com/2012/10/05/2014-mazda6-first-drive-review/
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I read that and was a bit underwhelmed, and I own a Mazda (Miata).

    189hp would be fun ... in the lighter Mazda3.

    Or stuff the 2.0l SkyActiv in the Miata, or the SkyActiv D diesel.

    Mazda has to build those in Japan and ship them over, what's that gonna cost? I don't see how that model will be a sales success.

    Malibu needs to worry about Fusion/Accord/Altima, not this.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    189hp would be fun ... in the lighter Mazda3.

    If you'll read the entire article, you notice...the Mazda3 isn't lighter. At least not by much. This Mazda6 will be 2997 lbs. The Mazda3 s Grand Touring (the one with the 2.5L), on the other hand...3104 lbs. :shades:
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    I looked at that and love what I'm reading. Of course I won't be buying for years but if I were now that would get a serious look.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    16 pounds per horse, my minivan carries 15. Yawn.

    The 3 needs a diet, too, and surely will get one.

    Here's Inside Line's take:

    http://www.insideline.com/mazda/6/2014/2014-mazda-6-first-drive.html
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,021
    I think it looks good from some angles. But, the rear looks like a Hyundai and from dead-on up front, it looks like it's puckering up for a kiss.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The wagon looks better IMHO.

    Will we ever see anything but crossovers, though?
  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    Will we ever see anything but crossovers, though?

    Probably not. There was a great article on another automotive website that explained why, due to CAFE regulations, small pickups and wagons weren't going to be a major part of any automaker's offerings going forward.

    Remember, the PT Cruiser was classified as a truck for CAFE.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yeah, CAFE has has the opposite of the intended effect. People buy trucks instead of more efficient cars.

    The new CAFE rules are also dumb, the graduated scale give bigger cars a break, that's all they'll sell!

    PS Rough week for Honda, not 03-04 Pilot and Ody are being investigated for rollaways per AN.
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    But, the rear looks like a Hyundai

    My thoughts exactly. Hardly anything to get excited about. Now if there was a new and improved turbo RX-7.....
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    My thoughts exactly. Hardly anything to get excited about. Now if there was a new and improved turbo RX-7.....

    Has to be someone somewhere plotting one. :shades:
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Might be a good time to buy a truck!
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    edited October 2012
    Apple would still make the iPhones in China regardless of the U.S. having the most-skilled workforce on the planet.

    An ex-UAW worker may make you a hamburger, but you'd better keep your automotive opinions to yourself lest you get an unpleasant surprise. Oh, and make sure you park your import out of sight of the workers!
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,404
    Glorified slave labor combined with a corrupt unregulated anything-goes regulation system makes for some mighty attractive production conditions for some self-titled self-made capitalists out there.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    No, what's certain is that us investing in GM would lose US money. The POINT was for us to invest in GM so that GM would gain money. Objective accomplished. Of course, now they have to deal with the side effects of extorting the American people through the government, which generally does not produce warm fuzzy feelings...

    This whole financial situation reminds me of that magic trick where you have a ball under a cup and the cups are continually rearranged so you can't figure out which cup has the ball. Only in this case the money is continuously rearranged and the reality is there is much less money actually in existence than everybody actually thinks they have. It's not going to end well at the end of the trick.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Is any of this a shocker with GM's trucks being the oldest in the industry? I pose the question seriously.

    Only a mother would know. ;)

    Seriously, highest inventory in the industry means GM hasn't really changed all that much from before their failure. Mothers know best!

    You missed the part where ALL their inventory was high I assume.

    Regards,
    OW
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,849
    Though if you look at true delta the Pilot consistently is rated as more reliable than the Traverse, some years the Traverse is far worse.

    Would you really cross-shop these two? Doesn't the Traverse have almost twice the cargo capacity, cubic feet wise? Or at least, much, much more?
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    edited October 2012
    Would you really cross-shop these two? Doesn't the Traverse have almost twice the cargo capacity, cubic feet wise? Or at least, much, much more?

    Personally, I don't particularly care for the Pilot. I know a few people are with their Pilots, but I don't see myself in one. I was commenting on reliability results, not desirability.

    If I wanted a cross-over SUV (which I don't) I probably would cross shop them. I can't get over the generic looks of the Traverse. I'd have to go with the GMC If I wanted a lambda.

    As for room, the Pilot is certainly has less room overall. I think the Lambda are probably the biggest cross overs available, but that doesn't mean they are the best. The Traverse is 205" long, that's only an inch and a 1/2 shorter than my Expedition and 15" longer than a Pilot.

    Personally, I like the Durango. Available Hemi power, good looks, and rwd/awd. I also really like the Grand Cherokee.
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