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May? May drop? They absolutely SHOULD drop Pontiac, GMC AND Buick too! When are they gonna get it, that having 8 car lines is what has been their nemesis all along! They need to make about 8 CARS, not have 8 car LINES. Maybe then they could focus all their resources on the cars they make, in 2 brands, and make them so well, and competitively, that they can be great again. It's just hard to give up that perceived dominant size of having all those brands, but it has killed them. Here's what I think should remain......
CADILLAC - and add a Cadillac Enclave to the lineup to replace the SRX, drop Buick.
CHEVROLET and sell the Corvette and Chevy Trucks there.
GMC should be all heavy duty trucks as they are now, but not sell light duty trucks anymore.
That should be the new GM, in the US anyway. I pretend not to know what to do about GM in the rest of the world, I guess if they're profitable in Asia, Southeast Asia and Europe, they should continue operations there as they are.
From the specs I've seen, an '08 AWD Pacifica weighs about 300-400lbs more than a '98 Astro 2wd LT which had an EPA rating of 15/19, 16/20 2wd (you got exceptional mileage if you were getting 23 or so), plus the Pacifica has 60 more HP. Chrysler's have generally been below average regarding fuel economy.
The Ford Flex is not small and also weighs in the 4800lb range with options.
I think Fiat buying Saturn is the best option. It gives them 2-3 years to get their cars certified and they can buy a few Chrysler plants to help support the operation. At least folks have heard of Fiat.
So what if GM has a few niche brands instead of major lines? BMW has Mini, with a grand total of two vehicles and does very well, considering.
It is like the Saturn Aura for example, a nicer car, but I am not sure it was taken to the level that they had intended on taking it to. It sorta plateaued. More like a good start, but not quite there. If they had taken it to the level they wanted, perhaps selling more.... BUT, Wait there are so many other GM cars out there.... Maybe I don't want an Aura. lol.
Do it GM, Downsize, and give us what we all want!!
what's gonna happen to all these dealerships that go outta biz?
Flex and pacifica have better tires, less frontal area, more aero designs, smaller engines, less towing capability, smaller gas tanks, weigh only 3-400 lbs more and get 1 more mpg with 2008 technology going up against 1985 technology. That is why their mileage is so outstanding.
Flex and pacifica have better tires, less frontal area, more aero designs, smaller engines, less towing capability, smaller gas tanks, weigh only 3-400 lbs more and get 1 more mpg with 2008 technology going up against 1985 technology. That is why their mileage is so outstanding.
Going by what you've averaged s in an Astro to the EPA ratings of a Flex is far from a scientific comparison. EPA ratings show 24 hwy for a Flex and 20 for an 87 Astro. Maybe if you drove a Flex the same way you drove your Astro on the same trip under the same conditions, you would get 27mpg. Who knows. Not to mention newer vehicles have much more stringent pollution requirements to deal with, it's far from an apples to apples comparison. All I can add is I've known one person that had a '98 AWD Safari and he was happy to get 18mpg on the hwy (which is the EPA rating). That's about what I get with my '07 4wd/awd Expedition that weighs 1500lbs more and has and additional 100+HP and 100+ft/lbs of torque and is rated to tow around 3000lbs more.
GM to keep GMC, Pontiac; no plans to quicken dealer consolidation
April 16, 2009 - 3:26 pm ET
UPDATED: 4/16/09 4:48 p.m. ET
DETROIT -- A senior General Motors executive today denied reports that President Barack Obama's automotive task force has pressured the automaker to dump GMC and Pontiac.
Company sales chief Mark LaNeve also denied rumors that GM plans to terminate the franchise agreements of poorly performing dealers before June 1 to accelerate its dealership consolidation campaign.
"The strategy we laid out for you [in February] is still the strategy," LaNeve, GM's vice president of vehicle sales, service and marketing, said today in an interview with Automotive News.
"Are we working it, tweaking it, examining every aspect of it? Yes, but nothing has changed with our strategy," he said. Reports that "GMC is going away are just unfounded, unsubstantiated and untrue," LaNeve said.
......LaNeve said. "They're not pressuring us to give up on anything," he said. "Buick and GMC are very profitable brands, and we have plans to make them even more profitable."
http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090416/ANA02/904169978/1229-
(registration link)
So which is it guys? Is the left hand talking to the right over at the General, or is there a major communications gap there?
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
It is astonishing that a company as big and screwed up as GM, after almost six months of begging at the trough, STILL can't get its story straight.
Oh, wait, that's right -- they are really screwed up! :P
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
That's the biggest problem right there. They have fewer than 45 days, had their CEO forced out, and apparently, it hasn't gotten through yet that that plan IS NOT VIABLE!!!
LaNeve said. "They're not pressuring us to give up on anything," he said. "Buick and GMC are very profitable brands, and we have plans to make them even more profitable."
If they're so profitable, why did you guys need multiple bailouts? Maybe Chevy and Caddy are not profitable? We know Hummer, Saturn, and Saab weren't. OH, that's right, EVERYTHING would be profitable if it wasn't for those durn UAW guys holding you to the contract you agreed to, instead of accepting $5 an hour, and pension in the form of GM stock that's about to be wiped out.
GM deserves to die. It's Darwinism in action...too stupid to survive.
Yeah, your real American, you represent the American people right? I think you have just turned your back on us, and our opinion or hand out does count! At least be honest with us, don't lie to us. Suck it up! Your company should be ashamed of its self. It is not the economy that did this to your company, its your own actions that sooner or later would have caught up with you. Bad economy or Not. Living the high life? While being a second away from bankruptcy? That must feel real good! Living life on the edge.
You keep messing with us, and you will scare people off for years to come. Remember word of mouth can be either good or bad for your company, and trust me, people do not forget things like this. It will already haunt your company years later, even if your company is back on its feet. It is bad enough people are realizing your competitors are offering much more for their money.
Your not sorry, you've been doing right since day one right?
Desperate?
Are we mad at you GM? .....?
More bailout money please! No signs of progress, just a bunch of talk IMO and yet these goons get more $$$. :mad:
What a joke
"PC makers in the Windows camp have done everything possible to make their products progressively worse by cutting corners to save pennies per unit and boost sales volume. There's good reason Apple is seeing healthy profits while grabbing market share. It refuses to budge on quality and so charges a higher price."
They are dishonest, dishonorable, lack customer service or appreciation, and have inferior products for high prices.
Sort of like the GM/Chrysler business model.
So expect Best Buy to go the way of Good Guys, Tweeter, and Circuit City. Though Good Guys and Tweeter were good business, Circuit City sucked too just like Best Buy.
http://blog.wired.com/cars/2009/04/how-the-fiesta.html
Ford recently handed 100 Fiestas to 100 people selected from 4,000 applicants. These "agents" -- that's what Ford calls them -- get to use the cars for six months in exchange for completing monthly "missions" with different themes. They'll share their experiences through YouTube, Flickr, Facebook and Twitter accounts Ford created for the campaign.
....
"We've told them to be completely honest -- that's the only way it's going to work," Monty told us. "We won't tell them what to say, nor will we censor or edit any of their content."
I don't think that this plan is necessarily the problem at this point. THE problem is not having an agreement w/ the unions and bondholders. THIS agreement (when it's done) is the key to improving cash flow, not the brands. They have already announced plans to cut the 1700 dealers they were going to drop in 5 years THIS year. Deals for Saturn, Hummer, and Saab appear to be near, yet no details.
Then again, that's the difference...Ford looks like it's going to be a going concern. GM, on the other hand...it's all up to the bondholders right now. Everything awaits them. And they get paid first in a liquidation, and they know it, so it isn't really in their interests to make a deal anyway, since they know they'll get paid when "BadGM" liquidates.
Might have been a bad move to publicize the "microwave" bankruptcy plan.
But some of the bondholders stand to gain by bankruptcy. They will get a full payout from AIG (via US), and then get whatever the BK judge gives them on top. No incentive to negotiate
I used to borrow the lab cars at work for long trips. one Aurora was assigned to a coworker for about 6 mos and he was getting 21 mpg with it and turned it back in. I got it and found about 18 psi in the tires and 3.5 L engine was about 2.5 qts low on oil. I filled them all back up and got 30 mpg on that trip with it. I put rainx on the windshield but I don't know if that helps.
The Genesis and Equus are exactly what Buick should be, big refined luxo-cruisers. How ironic is that?
That is one of the problems. They are probably twice the size they need to be. Toyota sells almost the same number of vehicles on about 30% of the total dealers. GM cutting 1700 dealers represents only about 30% of the total, OVER 5 YEARS! That is NOT an aggressive plan. It is a slow incremental plan. Problem is, GM still doesn't get it. They don't have time for slow and incremental any longer.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
It's funny. Way back in about December, I posted that the GM plans are a series of optimistic assumptions, each of which must occur for them to make themselves successful. An unlikely situation. I even challenged 62vette (hope he's ok) on this.
So months later the US government gets GM's "viability plan". And the US government says that GM's plan is too optimistic, not realistic. Anybody could see this. Except the Board of Directors and Wagoner. Which is why he is gone and they will be leaving.
What makes you say that? They did it before, they can do it again.
Step 1: Legacy brands have been selling well - so lets rename them ALL.
step 2: Change every model to be the car we think they should want, rather than the what they have been briskly buying.
Step 3: Badge engineer everything GM makes so that Buick sells Minivans & SUVs just like the other 3 div isions, even tho no Buick customer is interested in them.
This is not ur father's Buick. Drop the brand. Get it over with.
The Alero and Intrigue especially seemed like light years ahead of the Calais and the old W-body Cutlass Supreme. The Olds 88 was a pretty decent car to begin with though, so maybe the Aurora wasn't that big of a leap.
My Dad has an '03 Regal LS, and it's not a horrible car. Build quality is kinda sloppy, and the interior looks a bit low rent for what I think a Buick should be. But it's been reliable. I think the LaCrosse is a big improvement, in terms of interior quality and fit and finish. However, I actually preferred the style of the Century and Regal.
Similarly, the Lucerne seems like a better put-together car than the LeSabre was, and the interior seems a higher quality. But in this case, I just don't like the name. I think "LeSabre" still had some name equity in it, and they should just have kept calling it that.
April 20, 2009 - 12:01 am ET
General Motors' June 1 deadline to achieve a clean balance sheet — or face bankruptcy — was intended to give the company more leverage over unsecured bondholders. Yet negotiations still haven't budged.
Gridlock
General Motors has been unable to negotiate concessions from its stakeholders.
• Bondholders: Don't want to accept GM stock as payment for $28 billion in unsecured debt.
• UAW: Has not allowed GM to halve a $20 billion debt owed to the union's retiree health care fund.
.....On Tuesday, April 14, Chairman Kent Kresa told Dow Jones: "We have some deadlines rapidly approaching, and the probabilities are decreasing that we can do [this] outside of bankruptcy."
CEO Fritz Henderson also struck an urgent note, telling the Canadian Broadcasting Corp. last week that GM hoped to make a deal out of court while preparing for a possible filing.
.....The auto task force appears to be more open to bankruptcy than GM, taking the view that a managed Chapter 11 is the best option, sources who were not identified told The Wall Street Journal on April 10.
.....Two additional factors have raised the odds of bankruptcy, wrote JPMorgan analyst Himanshu Patel in a report published April 13.
First, Patel said, Henderson is less opposed to bankruptcy than Wagoner was. Second, the task force has likely realized that GM's balance sheet is in worse shape than it had thought. So the administration realizes it will have to restructure its own loans to the automaker, the analyst wrote.
.....The good GM — which presumably would include healthy assets such as the Cadillac and Chevrolet brands — would emerge from U.S. Bankruptcy Court with a clean balance sheet. But it's still a high-risk plan, said Morningstar's Whiston.
"GM could be a formidable company," he said. "The scary thing is you don't know if GM would come out of bankruptcy. What if consumers refuse to go into its showroom? Then it'll be dead."
http://www.autonews.com/article/20090420/ANA03/304209966/1128
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They are never going to get the bondholders and UAW to go along enough to make the difference in the next 40 days. That's not even 6 weeks. They should just go ahead with the good GM-bad GM plan right now and hit the bankruptcy court.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Retailers get ready for GM and Chrysler filings
Many GM and Chrysler dealers are protecting themselves by cutting inventory and factory orders. GM and Chrysler desperately need orders, but dealers are holding back because the automakers are in such bad shape.
.....In an interview, Mark LaNeve, GM North America vice president of vehicle sales, service and marketing, said dealer orders are down substantially. He did not give a specific figure but said they roughly matched GM's decline in production. GM's first-quarter production plummeted 58.0 percent compared with the first quarter of 2008.
"A lot of dealers are attempting to reduce inventory," LaNeve said. "I don't believe that's really unique to GM."
GM's days supply remains too high, he said. On April 1, GM had a 122-day supply. Sixty days is considered the industry target.
http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090420/ANA06/304209968/1197-
(registration link)
This is a process that can only snowball in my view. The bankruptcy approaches, customers drop off even further, more dealers stop ordering inventory, production needs to be cut back even more, until GM isn't producing any vehicles any more. That's why I think they have made a big mistake by drawing this out so long. They should have done a quick government-managed bankruptcy 6-9 months ago before everyone in America had the chance to get the idea that GM was a poisoned automaker where they shouldn't be shopping. Now the damage is done, and the forecasts of people turning away from bankrupt automakers get the chance to be self-fulfilling prophecies.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
GM wouldn't be in this pickle if they had just:
1. Listened to their customers
2. Built what their customers wanted
3. Sold their products at a profit
Nothing out of the ordinary in the business world unless you're a global megacorp who can afford their very own herd of lobbyists. Somehow they think the rules change for them..largely because they've been trying to GET the rules changed for them. But somehow I think even Joe the Plumber, another one of those people who don't know to pay their taxes (gee, there's an AWFUL lot of them these days) knows to listen to his customers, sell them what THEY want rather than what he wants, and do business to make money on the product.
Still, it doesn't seem like a very financially prudent maneuver.
Now the other guy with the Silverado, I KNOW he is fed up with the bailouts and the whole bankruptcy talk. I've had numerous conversations about how foolish the whole situation has become. He also knows a few folks over at A123 in Watertown, MA who got screwed over by GM going to Korea for the batteries as well as investing in off shore programs with our tax money. :mad:
...Well, that and we have a couple of Tundra drivers (former D3 owners actually) here already who probably coaxed him into making the switch... But I know it's deeper than that.
Still, there are some great deals out there, even companies that aren't at risk of bankruptcy so now is a great time to make the move before the depreciation hit increases.
Still, I like 'em.
No Park Avenue CXS or Ultra or anything... One model, one configuration, one name. Simplicity is good. Less costs to make, less buyer confusion, and it sends a clear message of "this is our best - take it or leave it. We don't care about fleet sales".
edit: Literally just a name. No Buick even. Just "Roadmaster", for instance. They can put it wherever they want - or as I've suggested, move away from a dealership model to one like Mini has - build it and deliver it - everything under a GM badge.(Cadillac possibly excepted here).
About this, though:
"GM could be a formidable company," he said. "The scary thing is you don't know if GM would come out of bankruptcy. What if consumers refuse to go into its showroom? Then it'll be dead."
YAY! More deals for me! Since I buy 3-4 year old cars anyways, the factory warranty is moot. But there will be a huge wad of good GM vehicles for cheap very soon. Their fault, so sorry - time to move on.
Now, that is not a bad idea!! A GM dealer who can sell you A Chevy, a GMC truck, a Buick (what's left of them), a Corvette..... and a Cadillac dealer who can sell you a luxury car..... I kind of like that.
See, people will gladly wait 2-4 weeks to get their own custom setup. Mini was genius with this move, because it gives them time to build the car(you can always order a Honda and wait, as well). The customer doesn't *mind* waiting and pays more in options as well.
Less dealers, less inventory(most dealers make their money on service and used cars anyways - they don't WANT 100 cars in a back lot if they can help it. Win-win-win scenario.
GM goes from being a dealership to more of an old-fashioned showroom(more like you'd see at an auto show).
The only model that real car-men like that's named Electra is - (ta-da) Carmen Electra.