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On a seperate note, I am now having a problem with one of the rear speakers vibrating when music plays so there will have to be another trip to the dealer. It can be easily reproduced so I am not worried about getting it fixed. It's just that I have to spend more time on this car. I have read about others with the same issue so someone missed the QA boat on these.
Roger
Before my car fixed itself, I had written to American Honda Customer Service and the president of American Honda, with copies to the New York State Attorney General and the Federal Trade Commission outlining my problems, referencing others on this website with problems, and the quotes from American Honda's webpage about the VCM being seamless and unnoticeable, along with all the references to all the raod tests where it had been noticed as NOT seamless and unnoticeable. I got their attention - I have a phone call to return about the car. I will let you know what I am told sunnfun - and everyone else.
#2 of 285 2008 Accord Sedan V6 Engine Problem by burningedge Oct 25, 2007 (7:03 pm) Save | Reply
I bought a new Accord on Fri. 10/19. When I was driving to work on Mon. 10/22 the car started sputtering and lurching. It had 50 something miles on it. When I turned the car off and restarted it, the engine check light came on and the ECO light would no longer come on, though the car was driveable at that point. Brought the car in and they are working on it.
Update: the problem has been diagnosed as a defective fuel pump. I have to wait a week for a new fuel pump.
Replying to: burningedge (Oct 25, 2007 7:03 pm)
Oops. I meant defective OIL pump. Seems too much oil was being pumped into the engine causing valves to remain open when they shouldn't be.
Replies to this message:
aviboy97 (Oct 29, 2007 12:09 pm)
burningedge (Oct 31, 2007 9:44 pm)
bug4 (Nov 01, 2007 8:29 am)
Golf
http://www.boston.com/cars/news/articles/2008/04/21/power_on_demand/
I recently put about 400 hwy miles on my 08-V6 this past weekend and while the VCM was extremely active and making it's presence known, I wasn't that annoyed by it, although my wife inquired for the first time as a passenger what I was doing with the cruise control that she could feel. I informed her that that wasn't me just Honda's engineers seamlessly conserving fuel for us. To which she commented that seamlessly, like so many other words in the english language, must have taken on new meanings. I will say that I saw 32 MPG on my first leg of the trip and 29 MPG on the last leg, so what complaints I may have, they can't be about fuel economy.
Haha... I was about to say, if it was seemless, how'd she know?
ROTFLMAO!!!
Recently while driving on a smooth flat road in Florida with cruise control set at 40 or 41 mph I noticed a faint osculation of the engine. Looking at the tachometer I noticed that it was jumping about 100 rpm. I believe it was at 1500 rpm and then it would go to 1600 rpm and back again as if it war searching for a proper setting. When I adjusted the cruise control to 45 MPH the osculation disappeared. At speeds above 45 mph there is no osculation.
The engine is running smooth at all speeds even when the osculation occurs. The osculation is almost undetectable. My wife doesn't notice it at all.
The car has about 5000 miles on it and I have not had it back to the dealer yet.
My 2008 EX-L V6 was delivered on 27 Dec 08. For the first 5000 miles the VCM didn't show any of the characteristics of surging or osculation which have been described on this forum many time since the VCM V6 came out. I was aware of this issue before I took delivery of the V6 and I mentioned to the dealer prior to ordering the EX with the V6. In Dec 07 the dealer's service dept had no complaints of surging.
For several months I have had the EX V6 I have not noticed any surging until this month, April 2008. While driving on a flat, straight road in Florida with the cruise control set on 40 or 41 mph I noticed an osculation. Checking the tachometer I noticed it was fluctuating 100 rpm between 1500 and 1600 RPM as if the VCM system was searching for a proper setting. When I adjusted the cruise control to 45 mph the osculation disappeared and at speeds above 45 mph there is no osculation. The engine is smooth at all speeds even when the osculation occurs. The osculation is so faint that my wife does not notice it and most people won't
Golf
Roger
I will follow up with them indicating that I was not writing about a safety issue. Seem to have gotten sloughed off by them. Have gotten two calls from Honda - tried calling rep back but not there. Will try again today. The thing is - my problems have disappeared so if someone were to drive the car now, it doesn't do anything noticeable any more - so it is in conformity with Honda's advertising.
Really sorry sunnfun and golfrski- like I said, poof - one day it just stopped giving me any problems. I am happy of course, but sorry I may not be able to of any help to you.
All around is about 22-23, highway 25-26 at 70-75 MPH. Very disappointing. Wish it had a 6th gear or taller overdrive.
Three months and 4,200 miles have passed since we last updated our long-term Honda Accord’s fuel log. High time we gave you the digits, no?
Our lifetime average is 21.1 mpg, so we’re still not quite hitting the EPA’s estimate of 22 mpg for combined driving, despite my husband’s determination to keep the green ECO dash light lit during a stint behind the wheel this weekend.
Our best tanks are generally in the mid 20s, worst tanks drop into the 16-17 range. We've used 436.1 gallons of fuel and have driven it more than 9,000 miles since we took ownership of the Accord last fall.
Bryn MacKinnon, Senior Editor, Edmunds.com @ 11,263 miles
All told, I don't think I'm getting the claimed mileage, though I haven't done the math.
Wiktionary, the free dictionary.Osculate is a semi-archaic English word with several definitions.
Often it means "to kiss", sometimes used in a "tongue-in-cheek" fashion.
Its primary definition is "to bring, or come into, close contact of union".
In mathematics, it means "to touch so as to have a common tangent at the point of contact". See osculating circle, osculating curve, and osculating orbit.
Do you have a kissing engine??
Roger
Every car is a compromise, and the current Accord has seemingly straddled the line between competing and opposing virtues. And VCM helps it achieve that end.
And I have gotten better highway mileage from GM V8's because they loaf along at 40mph/1000 RPM in top gear. If you look at the Motor Trend Sedan comparison of the Accord, Altima, Camry and Malibu, the Accord was the only engine turning 2100 RPM at 60 MPH. the Malibu? 1600 RPM That gives the Honda 28.5mph/1000 rpm, the Malibu 37.5 MPH/1000 RPM meaning that at 75 the Malibu is turning 2000 RPM versus the Accord turning 2600+ RPMs. I still say a taller overdrive would have been more effective in accomplishing three things (1)improving highway mileage better than the VCM while being a whole lot simpler and potentially less troublesome (2) less noise (3) less wear and tear on the engine.
As I see it, here is Honda's dilemma----they have to maximize sales of the Accord, as well as not cannibalize sales of the Acura TSX and TL. If they make the Accord too nice in terms of styling, engineering, and comfort, no one would pay another $4000 to $7000 for the Acura. These cars are not that different under the skin, so they have to differentiate (and keep costs down) by holding back on how nice the Accord could be.
Same deal with the Pilot vs. MDX. These vehicles are very similar mechanically. When I saw photos of the new Pilot, my first reaction was "UGLY," but then if it's too nice, why buy the MDX?
It will be interesting to see if VCM will be offered on the soon-to-be-released TL. I assume that it will be, since they've already announced that the next RL V8 will have it. The other differentiator with Acura might also be offering "super handling" all wheel drive options, which we probably won't see with Honda sedans.
Honda is rolling the dice big time in terms of reliance on VCM as a unique and differentiating technology.
Regular gas vs. premium
More rear seat leg room - occasionally have our 6'4" or 6'5" sons in the back seat
More trunk space
Many negative reviews of the TL by owners with lots of rattle problems
That said, I much preferred the sound system in the TL, and I do think it is sportier looking.
I cannot figure out Honda/Acura marketing strategy as you say - the Accord sales have to be cannibalizing the TL sales, and aside from the all wheel drive and a higher level of quality in fit and finish, RL too - compare the new Accord with the RL - I believe they are built on the same platform. For the difference in price? Aside from the all wheel drive and status it seems like a no brainer - so long as the VCM is reliable and mechanically sound. :P
btw, my VCM is still as hyper and maddening as ever.
Golf-
Imagine if we all used the 200-plus abbreviations that kids use for text messaging...I would sign out forever...
Part of the forum was focused on fuel economy (including VCM), but obviously with oil prices being what they are, and with the heavy investment in ethanol in the US, the Japanese are hard at work developing new ways to squeeze more MPG out of every gallon of fuel. Although Honda is in the lead with cylinder deactivation, other Japanese companies are evaluating VCM-type options, alongside CVT, alternative fuels, hybrids, and other options. Not surprisingly, Honda talked the most about VCM, while Toyota was more focused on hybrid technology, Nissan about CVT and other "intelligent" driving technology that helps maximizes safety and lower fuel usage. Mazda is a smaller player, and offered few new advancements beyond smaller displacement motors.
VCM is not necessarily a long term solution for Honda (just as hybrid technology is not a long term solution for Toyota due to battery issues). They are very focused on hydrogen fuel cells and plug-in electric options that reduce reliance on fossil fuels. Weight is the enemy of fuel efficiency, so everyone is focused on getting cars smaller and lighter, without compromising safety.
Back to the original question....Honda offers VCM all over the world. They believe in it, and sell it under different brand names. Even in Japan, the VCM-equipped sedan is not the Accord, but it's called the (more upmarket) Vigor. Honda plans to sell the Acura brand in markets outside the U.S. in the future. Even though those engineers in Torrence may have told you that Acura design is supported separately from Honda design, at the end of the day, Honda as the parent company is very focused on selling a balance of each model within one cohesive marketing and dealership strategy.
I would not be surprised if 5 years from now, Honda stops offering VCM (just as they've quickly abandoned hybrid offerings in the Accord line). This technology is a temporary step in a long term evolution that will culminate with heavier reliance on alternative fuels (probably hydrogen if infrastructure and heavy petroleum industry lobbying can be overcome). Long term, Honda would also just as much prefer to sell more 3 and 4-cylinder powerplants rather than 6 or 8 cylinders. What's sold in the US market is different from what is typically demanded in other parts of the world. What China and India demand in the next decade will heavily influence what we get here, as well.
So, VCM is a bandaid over the long run and is likely not a true solution.
......Yes, yes and yes (details in MPG section)
ez....
Toyota Avalon, Ford Taurus. Well, the Avalon does low 6s, so maybe it doesn't count. :P