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Comments
What has surprised me, though, is the low mileage that I have been getting. In mixed (mostly city) driving, I have been getting only 16-18 mpg. On this recent trip, I got only 23 mpg. It is possible that the car is not "broken in", but I expected better mileage from a 250 mile trip at a steady 65-70 mph.
Around town local driving with my lead foot I get around 17MPG - about the same as my prior Subaru Outback Turbo four cylinder which was rated that year at 250 horsepower. On the highway only trips, using cruise it is about 24MPG in western PA on the turnpike (hilly terrain), but rises up to about 26MPG on the Ohio flatland. Cruising speed is about 73 if traffic is good, unless in WV, then 78. This is about what I expected - this is a much bigger, heavier, and powerful car compared to my first 1993 Honda Accord EX 5spd that turned in 29 in mixed driving (that was the 150HP Vtec four). The only way to truly get good fuel mileage for my heavy foot driving style would be to buy a small car with a small engine and a manual.
VCM seems least obtrusive when the cruise is in use, otherwise you can find yourself adding more throttle than needed and provoking the mini-downshift like feel to the six cylinder mode (kinda like when dropping overdrive on the old style transmissions).
I haven't seen any company offer a performance program for the engine computer - they could shutdown the VCM mode etc and not have to worry about the gov't. I suspect Honda cannot offer a disable for the system without running foul of federal regulations regarding the emissions cert of which the engine computer is an important component.
The car does have some odd engine notes and vibration from it, as well as the surging/hesitation. Those appear to be the nature of this particular design. I was a little leery buying the car just after seeing all the gee-whiz junk they did, as the earlier Accords (gen 6 and earlier) did not have this stuff. Navi is one thing, but adding active noise cancellation and a dual active chamber engine mount (earlier ones had a single chamber mount), etc. just hide the 3-4-6 schemes issues?
This is a live with it for me, the steering wheel shimmy that mine has since day one is the bigger issue. It's been minimized with the third road force balance, but if you know what to look for it is still there in a small way.
The paint job on this car has more flaws in it than the the last four vehicles I've owned combined - this is also a live with it. I had to wait for this one to come from Marysville, so I could not reject it for this, unlike if it was one on the lot.
Still, I like this cars size, handling, and performance in general. But after loosing the low dash due to the ACS design it feels a lot more like a traditional american car design where the dash is high and you sit down in a tub.
I totally agree - this is the most "American" Honda to date, losing the low cowl other had had. I liked the 1st generation Acura Legends - they had every bit as much leg room, etc. but were SOO much lower and the cowl ? Your line of sight was amazing.
Some interesting comparisons - 1990 Legend v 2009 Accord V6
Acura Honda
Front HR 37 41
Rear HR 37 37
Front LR 43.4 42.5
Rear LR 35 37
Length 191 194
Ht 54.7 58!
Wt 3170 3600
Width 69 73
WheelBase 109 110
The VCM engine with the 5 speed automatic transmission is a bad combination. There are many time when driving around town that the car is outright annoying as the transmission [non-permissible content removed] up too early and the engine has switched to a lower number number of cylinders, causing the sensation that the engine is hesitating and doesn't have enough power. Other times, it feels like the engine is stalling out.
The Honda factory rep avoided the topic of the sloshing sound from the gas tank; I've have never had a car that did that after 40 years of driving. Just took the car to one of the major insurance companies safety lab and they found that the baffles in the gas tank appear to have moved from their original fasteners in the tank. The result is that when there is more than 3/4th of a tank of gas, the gas not only sloshes but the weight of the gas moving causes the car to move slightly when you're stopping, almost like another car just slightly bumped you from behind.
Counting the days to get rid of this car. It's great looking inside and out; love the handling (with the exception of the engine and the transmission). Until the problems with the VCM can be reduced (there's obviously a quality control issue when a large enough number of drivers are complaining at various websites).
One final note: Honda needs to re-focus on quality. If you've looked at the latest rankings of cars, you'll notice that Honda is slipping from its previous rankings (the exception seems to be the Civic, which continues to rated very high). Accord is quickly becoming an "also ran".
Elliot, I know you're unhappy with your Accord, but how exactly are the cylinders misfiring? Whether it's running on 6, 4, or 3, they're all firing as Honda intended to. Honda didn't make a mistake, they designed it that way. I love the fact when I'm cruising down the road on 3 cyl's because I'm getting great mpg's. My 08 V6 runs beautifully and now is exceeding my average mpg's over my previous 06 V6. My 08 doesn't run the same as the 06 did, but it wasn't designed or intended to. As for the noise problem you're having, could it possibly be subjective? I can 'hear' and 'feel' it when in 3 cyl mode but it's not annoying - for me it's better than having the louder 4 cyl all the time. I don't hear any sloshing in my gas tank so maybe you have a problem there. Have to ask; sure you don't have anything in the trunk?
The VCM is too much effort for too little mileage gain in my book, but it is an integral part of the car - only way to get rid of it is to trade it. I now have around 5000 miles on the car and have noticed that at about 2500rpm it has gotten a bit of a 'droning' sound to the engine note in the front of the car.
I like the car, but it does feel like Honda is subscribing to the larger and cheaper is better school, unlike my prior Subaru which most people got sticker shock looking at what you got (size and techno toys wise) for the money.
We need to add Honda to the list of automakers where we don't by the first years model.
The old saying with domestics was that the first year they found and fixed the bugs, so the second year was more reliable, then the third year they would finally add the more powerful engine and features that the car should have had from the beginning. Then they would redesign it and start the process over. So only buy the third year of any generation car.
Brake wise, I had a 1990 Dodge Spirit ES V6 with four wheel disc brakes that only got to the mid 20K miles on each set of front brakes.
Only part of this VCM system that could do without is going into VCM when letting off the accelerator. It keeps the car in gear as you slow and just feels like their is strain on the drivetrain as opposed to just going to neutral like all other cars out there. Slowing through 25mph you can feel the torque converter lock up.
Again I'm sure this was well designed by HONDA for some reason but if anyone knows better Id love to know. I would sacrafice the extra 1mpg or whatever difference VCM makes if they would just make a mod where I could turn off VCM. When the car is cold in the morning and drive around..the car drives so great! Even with VCM..it drives fine but I just notice very little nitnoid stuff such as posted before.
Otherwise I have no shimmy issues and my car is registering great mileage. ~25mpg average. Knowing what I know now..Id still by the V6 as the I4 doesn't have the power or good gas mileage anymore comparatively speaking. The only other car I would consider is the TL but that is much more money wise. I still feel the accord offers the best bang for the buck value and looks great. I'm sure HONDA tested VCM out and that my car will last for many worry free years.
Sounds like your experiencing the Grade Logic Control of the 5 spd auto tranny. It does fly in the face of convention that the VCM indicator light stays on as your engine breaking on a downhill incline causing the engine to rev higher then if you were coasting in a higher gear. There are times I feel this feature achieves it's intended goal and times that I wish it would allow for a more efficient coast. It's a smart tranny but nothing can take the place of the human brain and a manual shifter or automated paddle shifter tranny. Like everything else the Accord is built to a price point and remains first and foremost a family sedan, and a fine one at that.
If you want the coast sensation, just keep your foot 'barely' (just touching) on the gas pedal. Only when you completely lift off the pedal does the engine braking come into play.
Once you get used to it, you can avoid having to hit the brakes all the time in traffic - unlike the people where the brake lights go on and off every ten seconds.
Maybe this will help the rear brake pads last....
The Honda transmission also downshifts as you slow to a stop - almost like a manual (watch the tack bump up each time), and is therefore ready to go if you step back on the gas as well as helping to slow the car a bit.
The sensation on the highway (I think) is just what it feels like when you lose or gain a couple cylinders of power. The added power feels like a mini downshift, and when you lose the extra power it feels like a mini up-shift.
The fact that so many people here try to make excuses for Honda or make blind statements that they are sure the excellent Honda engineers "have tested the VCM engine and therefore it should be fine" is absolute crap. Bottom line is that Honda had too much vested in this engine and it went to production before it was ready. Honda should be ashamed of putting any car out that requires a driver to adjust their style of driving (to the point of walking on eggshells) in order to get a smooth ride and avoid downshifting drag and a perception of transmission issues while coasting at a constant MPG on the freeway with no rash traffic adjustments.
As for my experience with the new car, despite its great new roomy interier and sleek exterior... the car is simply crap without acceptable, smooth engine performance. From my vantage point, if a 4 cylinder Jetta drives more smooth than a Honda Accord V6, then the Honda should be viewed as nothing but a failure by Honda engineers.
I'm already marking the months off my calendar until my lease runs out...C'mon 2012!!!! And to those experiencing the same issues... stop making excuses for Honda... they let us down... and we should let them hear about it!
All the best to everyone with your cars...
Then by all means get every hybrid off the road. You're driving for max economy in those, too. Take a look at the offerings below. Which seems most distracting? How about the ever-changing bar graphs on the mighty screen in the middle of the Altima's dash? Or perhaps you prefer the cartoons to be right there next to your speedo, as in the Camry and Fusion? You decide.
By the way, for those who can't quite make it out, the ECO light in the Accord is the dim thing just below the 8 in the tachometer, not the bright green thing between the gauges (that's the D indicator). Face it, the Accord is one of the LEAST distracting models out there.
Camry
Fusion
Altima
Accord
Believe it or (and despite other comments about constantly looking for the ECO light), I actually don't have a problem with it... not do I pay much attention to it. My primary issue is with breaking. I've found that while simply coasting with no pressure applied to the gas pedal because I know I have a turn or a stop coming up there is a very noticeable "downshift feeling" almost an instant drag in the car the actually lurches you forward a bit. In addition, I also experience this when applying the break with even pressure to come to a complete stop. I've noticed that if I break more aggressively and more at the last minute, I don't sense the "dragging". However, driving conservatively, applying the break with plenty of lead time, you get the noticeably drag... almost consistently between 3rd and 2nd on the downshift.
Quite frankly, upon sensing a break, the system should either disengage ECO until the system senses acceleration or lock the ECO distribution (regardless of the number of cylinders in use) so that you have a smooth breaking situation.
I've never experienced this issue with the Honda Pilots that contained the same technology in the 2007 models.
What you are describing has nothing to do with VCM or torque converter. It is the Grade-logic software of the transmission. It will hold the current gear going up or down hills to maintain speed. It will also downshift when slowing down as you described.
It will be interesting to see if Honda continues to invest in this technology. Most of their models with six pot engines (Accord, Pilot, Odyssey) include VCM, yet none of the Acuras offer it. The TL, MDX, and V6 TSX eschew VCM, and it does not appear that the upcoming ZDX will have it. Will the next generation RL offer VCM? Will any Acura model include it? Sure doesn't look like it right now.
And as far as I can tell, VCM is offered in Australia, but not in most overseas markets, including Europe. But Honda's answer to fuel economy in Europe is to offer diesel powerplants.
I personally am not against VCM, although the complexity and frustrations created for a small minority of Accord owners may ultimately trump its MPG benefits. And you have to wonder---if Honda truly believes in this technology, why do they not make it available on their upscale Acura line?
I welcome anyone's thoughts, as it's driving me nuts!
It's amazing how using a smaller scale for the Honda makes the other offerings look so much larger. So, how long have you worked for Honda?
I'll pass on responding to the personally-directed comments. Others should follow suit. My sincere apologies, it appears the Fusion's picture wasn't the same size as the others either. :sick:
For me, I just filed papers for arbitration.
At what speed does the VCM kick in ? Honda brochure only mention low cruising speed for 3 and high cruising for 4 cylinder. Does it kick in in city driving? Lots of acceleration to 45mph then brake to stop driving. On the highway I can maintain speed of 60 mph without much variation. Houston is all flat.
The car as a whole package is a different story though. The Accord is terribly noisy ,the tires, wind , engine sound fills the passenger compartment. I can feel more engine vibration through the steering wheel. It reminds me of my 1980's Corolla. Not a top of the line $25000 Accord. Maybe I'm too spoiled by my Toyota 4runner V8, one of the most silky smooth quiet vehicle there is.
Disappointed. I went on to drive a Mazda6. Very nice car. Quiet and competent but I dislike the exterior and interior look. Gets only 25 mpg on the highway. Forget that one. On to the Toyota dealer. Asked for a SE V6. What a pleasant surprise. Quiet like my 4runner. Silky smooth powertrain. That blue tint instrement panel is beautiful. I still don't like the Camry's look. I will just have to focus my eyes on the road ahead instead of the car itself.
Golfski and other Accord critic: I hope you succeed getting Honda to drop the VCM. While it doesn't bother me I don't see no reason the engine should run at 2500 rpm instead of 1500 (my 4runner) at freeway speed. Everytime the engine turns, it takes a little life out of it. There's no excuse for this.
I must say, I'm happy to see at least one of the "home team" guys getting it right.