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Its a bad design for 2mpg and doesnt work well... in my opinion and experience,
BTW if it was a fully baked design why would honda admit to issues with the VCM as they have with some of the posters?
This discussion is about VCM issues and potential resolution.. if you dont have one move along so those of us that do, can help each other through the nightmare..
Please provide a copy of written documentation from American Honda Motor Company to support your contention that Honda "admit(ted) to issues" related to your VCM concerns.
As I indicated above, there is a potential resolution, that two TOV posters took advantage of. You might want to follow their same paths. Just read their words.
"not on the clock at Honda" Perhaps you should read before responding. I wrote: "Sorry, I have never worked for Honda or any other auto manufacturer"
Its obvious Blane works for Honda or a dealer etc.. the amount of time he is spedning trying to discount the extent of your problems, mine and others that have engaged in fruitfull dialog here is obvious.... oh well freedom of speech in both directions.
We shall simply ignore his posts, keep sharing our issues and experiences and hope honda puts out a TSB or fix..
Meanwhile I will stay as vigilant as I have talking about the issue so that prospective buyers are aware and can make the right choices (hopefully) they will stay with honda as I am a 21 yr loyalist, but perhaps they will be cautioned to buy the 4cly instead of the V6 until the issues are NON existent and new oweners with these issues can continue to share ideas and experiences..
peace-
When you OWN the car, I'll be happy to continue this discussion with you.
I am confused by your posts. 1st you want me to post my DMV reg info, then you want me to put duct tape on my dashboard?
funny but not really... still suffering from the VCM
On a seperate note, I spoke to a friend today who has an older Odyssey with the VCM. They have had no issues. He went and test drove a 2008 Touring and found the same problem with it that I am having with my Accord
You should move to another thread that is not about these issues. If you dont have anything constructive to talk about. This is about the VCM and concerns with it.. the purpose of this particular thread is not to have a bear hug about the car rather flush out whats not working as intended or acceptable. if the VCM is noticeable AT ALL in any condition, then Hondas advertising and marketing is VERY misleading as it clearly states seamless and unnoticeable to the driver/passengers... not cool at all.
Had I know it wasn't seamless and didn't have such blind trust for the accord hence only talking it for a trip around the block test drive i would have NEVER bought the V6. I would have purchased a MT , 4cyl (maybe) or an Acura TL or RL for $15k more. Give those that are having issues a break. write a great review for a car I dont think you even own one of these right? its not constructive to down play the issue as its real and is negatively affecting several owners here and across the net etc.. perhaps you should write a letter to the guy who test drove it for the WSJ and tell him he is dreaming.
Until I happened to stumble into this forum, I had NEVER ONCE heard anyone spek of this...Not once!
I'm not saying that some isolated problems may have occured but I will say that whatever a problem is they always get GREATLY over amplified in these forums!
You wrote "perhaps you should write a letter to the guy who test drove it for the WSJ and tell him he is dreaming"
I just re-read phantomv's post #337 quoting the Wall Street Journal article. Here's his pertinent quote:
"Honda Accord
My Malibu test car was powered by a 252-horsepower, 3.6-liter V6, while the Accord was fitted with a 268-horsepower, 3.5-liter V6 with what Honda calls Variable Cylinder Management. This technology is designed to boost fuel economy by allowing the six-cylinder engine to run on just three or four cylinders when full power isn't needed. It works almost seamlessly, but in this case, "almost" isn't good enough. During highway driving with the cruise control on I could feel a slight vibration when the engine switched from three- to four- to six-cylinder mode, which it does often, a downright maddening behavior. That the Accord managed only 22 miles per gallon during my testing, a single mile per gallon better than the Malibu, only made this all the more annoying. "
A "slight vibration" and the WSJ writer's perception of "maddening behavior" in the (probably) single demo that he drove does not constitute anywhere near the concerns or scope expressed by the owners of the ten vehicles that have been the topic of this forum. Haven't we all been annoyed or maddened by certain behavoirs of our previously-owned vehicles? Haven't the vast majority of us had them resolved or at least haven't we gotten used to a few idiocyncrasies?
The fact that the door locks in my 2004 V6 Accord EX-L Coupe don't open automatically when I park my car has always bugged me. I consider it to be a potential danger if someone's car ended up in a lake and they couldn't get out by just yanking the inside door handle. Sure, I wrote Honda about it and never received a response. However, I'm gratified that they redesigned the 2008's so that when the shift lever is placed in Park the doors unlock. That was one of about three or four choices the manual said I could make.
No, I'm not happy that my 2008 I4 Accord's fuel mileage isn't as good as I had hoped. Guess what? I'm going to have to live with it.
I can't help thinking that you ten concerned owners should be making more efforts with your local authorities such as your state lemon law folks, Legislators, Better Business Bureaus, District Attornies, local newspapers, etc. Making lots of noise there will achieve better results than in this forum. I'm convinced that you'd be as successful as those two TOV posters (see post #509) did in having their concerns properly addressed.
We have other places for the debate about who wants to buy this car and why.
Blane, isell, all other Accord "defenders", it doesn't matter if we have one owner, ten owners or a hundred owners with a VCM problem, we are giving them a place to discuss the issue. Please stand down.
To all: the personal comments must stop. If we're going to have a productive and helpful conversation, we need to discuss the issues and not each other. Those who are having VCM difficulties are not doing themselves any favors by making this personal, regardless of what others are posting.
Thank you for your cooperation.
Give me a break! Making noise? This is an open forum to discuss the matter of VCM problems and hopefully solutions. You do not know what efforts I have made or what efforts I am pursuing. I do know that I reported a VCM problem to Honda forty-one days ago. If it were a minor inconvenience or idiosyncrasy of this model, they would not have kept the car for those forty-one days, and counting, in an effort to solve the problem.
Unfortunately, most of the unsatisfied customers will not normally report their problems to a company. They simply just stop doing business with that company (e.g. I do not tell a restaurant that serves terrible food, I just don't go there next time). Honda has always been the vehicle that I wanted since I was a kid. The slogan "Honda Civic - My Car" has given a lot people the confidence to make the call to buy an affordable and reliable Honda car. That was why I bought two 2006 Civic Hybrid (I did not want to make a statement with the Prius) and now traded them in for the Accord in a heart beat. I truly believe in Honda's new technology I kind of feel that I am let down. I don't want to make you lose your job but good that you did not disclose your info here. It is not like buying a TV at BestBuy that you can return in 14 days if you don't like it. Some of us do feel that we maybe stuck with a "not quite ready" product that was rolled out too quick (it happens at times with drug companies). I would not have joined this forum if I did not have any problem with my car. I would probably use my time and join Eli Manning to go to the happiest place on earth - Disney World
Anyway, my silver one (has about over 1100 miles) seems to have more problems than the red one. I can't comment more on the red one because my wife drives it and she is happy with it. The only thing about the red one is that the cruise does not stay on the speed that I set (e.g. I set on 65 MPH and it goes down to 64 MPH after climbing a hill and stay at 64 MPH). The "gear hunting" problem on my silver one is still there after the dealership "had it fixed". The VCM really is not as smooth as advertised. For my silver one, when I drive it up a hill to a plateau, it "surges" when the ECO light comes back on (happens 2 seconds after the ECO light comes on, and the surge last about a second or so). It kind of bugs me but my wife can deal with it. Personally, I wish Honda has an option to turn the VCM off (I got 23, 19, and 17 MPG on the last 3 tanks) and to get rid of the ECO light (it keeps going on and off). Why do I have to reminded constantly that the VCM is there if it is so smooth? Why do I need to VCM on this V6 if I am getting this MPG?
I am not planning to bring my cars back to the dealership or to trade them in at the moment. The reasons are:
1. I just bought them!
2. I don't have the time to bring the sliver one back and forth to the dealership for the trouble (Hello, I got a job that I have to go to - I bet my boss will tell me to get "a new car" if I tell him about this).
3. The car is still under warranty.
4. The problem is not as annoying to me (and doesn't bother my wife). There are other problem with other good cars (e.g. Caddy CTS)
5. I got other crap that I have to worry about at this time (I can't afford to lose any more of my hair
6. The worst scenario is that I will trade it (or both of them) in for something else (e.g. I4 model Accord, CR-V, Pilot AWD (no VCM)). I am not going to ditch Honda because I am still happy with my salesman and Honda.
7. I kind of promised my wife that I won't get rid of her Accord for a while (It is Her Accord, not My Accord)...
I am not trying to be the middle man but I think it a nice that there is a forum for us all to talk about the problems with the V6 AT model. Some of us are actively working with Honda to get it resolved and some of us are not (like me and my wife at the moment). This kind of thing might be censored/banned if we were in a communist country (or on Apple forum).
I agree with Pat that this is a forum mainly designed to discuss this issue. those that do not have the problem or notice it.. good for you, I wish I was in the same situation but many of us are not...
http://www.familycar.com/RoadTests/HondaAccord/Index2008.htm
How many of these road tests do we need to post? WSJ noted the same thing - "maddening behavior" We unfortunated who own these cars "get it" - other should take heed. VCM is NOT seamless Honda. You lied to us and still are lying in your advertising.
I. Chassis
a. its bigger.
b. its quieter
c. its nicer.
I have not heard many ( if any) complaints about the chassis its self other than some folks seem to be upset that it is bigger, sad to say but, if you want a 6th gen accord size car, wait for the next civic, and hope they give it DBL Wishbone.
II. Eng.
a. the 177 hp i-VTEC I4. what needs to be said?
b. the 190 hp i-VTEC I4. same story more hp.
c. the 268 hp VTEC V6 w/o VCM. (EX-L V6 6spd Coupe Only) WOW, I have heard that when cruising in 2nd gear if you floor it, w/VSA off, when vtec hits it will spin tires??? I have not tried it or seen it yet, and it is on stock All season tires.) but still WOW.
d. the 268 hp i-VTEC V6 VCM, its the have your cake and eat it too motor of the decade... I think personally honda made a really good chocolate' and we as americans like vanilla... for the people who like the motor, the love it... and those who are not too into it are mad that Honda let them down. We have these two oposite ends of the spectrum here... But lets look at the facts
1. Honda wanted to give us 270ish ponies (THANKS HONDA)
2. They wanted to increase MPG
3. They wanted to lower C02 output.
4. They wanted to make it safe & secure.
5. They wanted to make it ALL, with good build quality & durability,
6. They wanted to make eveybody happy.
So did they meet their goals?
4cyl has been great. came out in the 02 CR-V with 160hp so we have gained both HP and MPG out of this motor. (side bar, I think it makes up about 65% of Accord sales)
The V6; its bigger, and the most powerful eng. honda has ever put in the accord.
VCM is not new, its just re-worked, the system it noticable if you are triing to feel it work, the ECO light does not mean that it is in 3 or 4 cyl mode, it just means that you are driving in the most fuel eco friendly fassion you can. I think that if Honda wants to make everybody happy with the V6 w/ VCM they should try to suppliment the VCM system the same way that they do the VSA (w/ an over ride to deactivate it) have just a switch on the dash so that you can turn those programs off if you don't like them. ( oppinions on this could be a good thread)
III. Tranny
a. Grade Logic
b. Shift Hold
these two features together make for a different driving experiance in an automatic tranny, grade logic helps (uphill) to hold the gear so the eng. is at its optimal power output and it doesnt let the tran. hunt for a better gear up/down untill the engine load is low enough to down shift again. (down hill) if you let the car free roll w/o riding the brakes it will free run down but if it is too steep for your comfort/speed limit you will ride the brakes and when this is done the tran. will shift down a gear to help keep the cars speed in check, and hold that gear again untill you either get back on the gas or it starts to levels out. The Shift Hold is a new feature or the Accord, it is for a more enjoyable cornering experiance, under some spirited driving when breaking the trans shifts down and if you get back into the gas quickly it will hold that gear though the turn so you dont have to coast though it, you will be able to power out of the turn with out another down shift disrupting your streering input. If this is somthing that you havn't heard about, it may be something that you have experienced and did know that it was supossed to. again, Shift hold is primarily used when the road demands it, ie. back country typically twisty-bending roads.
IIII. The competitors.
No one else has these systems inplace. what could happen is that these three major enhancements could revolutionize the auto market. look back at what happened with ABS. very few makes had it and then more and more people became educated about how to use it, and how to make it effective; I know, I know some of you that are reading this hate abs too... what about pre-tentioning seatbelts, or active head restraints? or any of the other "new" tech things mfg's put into a car that then get added to almost all of them? How about the NOW required use of TPMS??? for those of you who don't like the VCM I wish I could make it better, but I for one, don't see it going away. Honda has it in 05 Oddy, and Accord IMA, in the 06' 2WD pilot, and now in all but one of the V6 accords. (will we see it in 09 pilot and ridgeline 4wd? I bet we do.)
one final point is to look at the other mfgs who do offer a comprable feature... Chrylser & Dodge have MDS(multi-displasement system), along with GM's DOD (displasement on demand) and both of them have certain draw backs aswell, like what speeds do they work between? I am not sure but 35-55mph sounds right?
only on V8 not avail on V6 only go from 8-4 I drove an impalla SS w/ it DOD (it was traded in here- I didn't go to a competitors dealer to waste their time) and it was way more noticeable when it kicked in. and it didn't switch in as offten.
Thanks for listening. lol,
Hope it was helpful
Please drop it and let's ALL drop the conversations about other posters. Going forward, comments about other posters will get your post removed regardless of any other content.
Thank you.
Here is the customer care center info from www.owners.honda.com its not as cool as carspace.com... but you can put your own cars in there too... recall info, updates, service appt on-line, even make payment to Honda.
By Phone
Monday through Friday, 6:00am to 5:00pm Pacific Standard time at the toll-free phone number (800) 999-1009
By Fax
(310) 783-3023
By Mail
American Honda Motor Co., Inc.
Honda Automobile Customer Service
Mail Stop 500-2N-7A
1919 Torrance Blvd.
Torrance, CA 90501-2746
And Honda let me, and others here like me, down.
Our mileage on the highway is not as good as 2007 models (and this appears to be true of the 190 HP I4 too - I am reading about 19 MPG around town - for a 4 cylinder???) with the best all around mileage I have seen for a VCM being around 23 and highway 28. My son's 2007 V-6 SE gets 30+ on the highway. Our 1990 Legend would deliver 26 MPG at 75-80 even after 17 years and 180,000 miles!!!! And to top it all off, the drivetrain is driving us nuts with its constant shifting and surging "maddening behavior" to quote the WSJ reviewer. And the grade logic? I had the cruise on 60 on a curvy hilly 4 lane highway and on the declines the car was downshifting into a lower gear to hold the steady speed rather than simply letting it "coast" in even the reduction top gear to slow it down. Again, overdone and annoynig.
We feel our trust and loyalty has been betrayed by Honda which promised "seamless" VCM performance and better fuel economy. Maybe our cars do perform as engineered and we are all feeling something that is "normal" for the engine - but boy, if they are "normal", we are all saddled with pieces of crap that will have a big black circle under them in the Consumer Reports used car ratings for sure. There is no way that anyone could drive my car, and apparently others' here too, day in and day out and say - "WOW!! This is some car!!!! I wish I had one myself!!!!"
Again, you are preaching to the choir. We are not Honda bashers!!! We have all LOVED our Hondas - that is why we are here. But, this is one HONDA I will hate until the day I get rid of it and I feel it only fair to let others not only know my loyalty, but also know what it got me - a lousy gas guzzling, surging, bucking, grade logic downshifting, car with "maddening behavior". I will certainly never have blind faith and trust in Honda again, nor will I EVER recommend this car to anyone. Next time I am in the market? Others will get FIRST consideration - this time I never even gave any other manufacturer a second thought. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice? Shame on ME!!!! Honda REALLY shot itself in the foot with this one - like I said orginally - this will be Honda's "New Coke".
I agree with you. This is only the start of a much larger issue. I have said over and over again that the numbers will increase as more people become aware.
The car is not a typical Accord... it runs rough, vibrates and the VCM surging and hyperactivity is not NORMAL as compared to other class of cars and operation.
its a bad deal for sure I think.
He seemed very surprised at my question and said that he did not recall anyone having done so.
I have no doubt that certain VCM equipped vehicles have exhibited some degree of roughness and clearly, ten examples have been discussed in depth in this forum. But based upon my extensive research in online forums, and the detailed information that I quoted above, the overwhelming majority of similar vehicles have been making their owners quite happy with their driving experiences.
The word "seamless" has been mentioned a lot here. If we all don't realize that it is used the same way that auto manufacturers have used "smooth riding" or "smooth shifting" for the last century we are deluding ourselves. What's smooth in a Lexus 460 is not what's smooth in a Civic. Such terms will always be relative to one's personal experiences.
As I've said previously, I'm sympathetic with your problems. But so far I haven't seen the numbers substantiating the claims that "many, many" owners have been complaining. Please provide specific links to REAL figures and I'll be pleased to eat crow.
Now I see the your guys problems with this first year Accord model, and I'm just shaking my head. Nobody deserves these types of hassles. I won't ever be jumping at a new model again......lesson re-learned for me!
Yes you have.
You've made your point, we understand that you don't believe this is a widespread problem. It is, however, a problem for those who are discussing it here. As I said previously, this is a place for them to do it, no matter how many of them there are. Continuing to tell them they are few in number and may be misperceiving what's going on with their vehicles is not moving this conversation forward.
Please leave it be.
The VCM in 3 cyl causes several issues to be had:
1. Constant surging and lurching, shudder /downshift feeling that is MADDENING, ANNOYING and OBJECTIONABLE to MANY new owners.
2.Vibration occurs at 50mph, 65mph and 70+ MPH its not tires its the result of the VCM operation in 3cyl mode
3.The Honda dealer will NOT tell you they know about it, they have to SELL MORE cars helloooooo
4. Honda themselves will not publicly talk about it , they have to SELL MORE and NOT create owner panic helloooo
5.HONDA has told several of us they are aware of the VCM issues and are trying to address it via the phone so its been validated.
6. Many of us here are experiencing this dilema which proves it not isolated to one or two bad made vehicles and many of us have spoken with other owners NOT on this board that have complained as well.
Issue is real folks this forum is designed to talk about it..
Caveat Emptor....
Golf-
I guess it's too much to ask that Honda would offer, sometime in the not too distant future, an option on VCM -- either an on-off switch or a straight V6 as in the manual transmission coupe. That would make the car a more palatable choice to some, at least to me.
I hope this thread doesn't become restricted (as one poster suggested) only to those who currently own an '08 VCM Accord. As but one example, those of us considering buying this car might benefit from asking questions of those of you who are already owners. I'm an '04 Accord owner looking to trade for something new, have test driven the '08 model, and am keenly interested in how all this plays out. Having been through a transmission issue with Honda with my current car, I offer my moral support to those trying to get a resolution on this issue. I hope it eventually all works out.
I suggested that only '08 V6 owners post because there have been people posting here taking issue with we '08 V6 owners having problems with the VCM, and they do not even own one! My advice to anyone considering the '08 V6 - extensively test drive the one you will purchase, not pre selected demos. These cars DO have surging, shifting, issues associated with the VCM. The reviewer for the WSJ called it "maddening behavior". I have owned three previous Accord V6's - '97 2.7, '00 3.0 200HP, '04 Coupe 3.0 240 HP - and now this '08. Maddening behavior is an apt description. Read some of our posts - shifting in and out of VCM 30 times over 12 miles? Each one being noticeable enough for my wife, passenger, to ask me what I was doing?! I was not doing anything - the car was "doing" it all. THAT is how annoying and noticeable the VCM is to many of us, not only as drivers, but as passengers too.
It's up to the reader to decide which posts have credibility and which do not. Thanks for dropping this and staying on topic.
Okay folks, that's the end of the off-topickedness here. Please keep your posts to the subject or expect that they will disappear.
If anyone else has any questions or comments for me about this situation, forums logistics, anything at all that isn't specifically on-topic, email me, do not post them.
Thank you.
Otherwise I believe I have done a public service alerting people to issues with this system - referencing the WSJ article and other impartial reviewers, forgetting about any biased opinions. :shades:
No need to gamle with $30,000 until this issue is non exsistent.
its a drag to drive.
This is exactly the kind of statement I have a problem with! Let consumers decide for themselves, PLEASE. Most V6 Sedan owners have no issues with them! ANY car, at any price, is a gamble.
Another thought - I wonder if Click and Clack (the NPR car show) have heard of this one? Maybe not with the Accord, but perhaps with other cars with a similiar problem. At least they would give an unbiased opinion.
The Surging of the VCM is another issue.. its more maddening then the vibration. Not sure what the culptit is there. Only know what Honda is telling us and that is it exsists and that they are looking into.
Either way I test drove 5 other V6's and all had the same surging phenomena. Now, 2 of the cars I drove had less vibration issues then mine.. but marginal.
January25, 2008 Wall Street Journal reviewer:
"... the Accord was fitted with a 268-horsepower, 3.5-liter V6 with what Honda calls Variable Cylinder Management. This technology is designed to boost fuel economy by allowing the six-cylinder engine to run on just three or four cylinders when full power isn't needed. It works almost seamlessly, but in this case, "almost" isn't good enough. During highway driving with the cruise control on I could feel a slight vibration when the engine switched from three- to four- to six-cylinder mode, which it does often, a downright maddening behavior. That the Accord managed only 22 miles per gallon during my testing ... only made this all the more annoying."
And this was not Golfrski's car that was tested. What more needs to be said? This was not a disgruntled owner or anyone with an axe to grind. Just another person experiencing what each of us has.
Drive one people! Has everyone here, other than those of us complaining about the VCM, actually driven an '08 V6? Have you actually road tested one and experienced VCM first hand? Walk a mile in our shoes if you haven't. Don't ask service managers - I challenge you drive one.
I have since driven four V6's on longer more thorough test drives and I detect the ECO switch on all models and the vibrations on all. I am not sure I really detected any surging except for one occurrence at lower speeds, around 40mph it seemed to surge back and forth briefly but I could not duplicate it. For the most part I could easily live with the ECO switching I felt as it was minor to non-existent across the four cars I test drove. What I've seen consistently is when I set cruise to 58-62 I feel vibrations. Not sure why and it wasn't drastic but it was enough for me to not buy the car(s). Every dealer said they have never heard of any complaints....until this last one. He finally admitted to me that his manager just told him after he heard me complaining about it that he drives the demo one and feels the vibration as well and they believe it's a cylinder balancing issue.
In trying to find my preferred color I have learned that no dealers in my area are receiving any new V6's with Nav over the next 3 month period. They are now restricted (whatever that really means) I wonder if they are trying to correct this or it's simply some other production issue. I didn't ask if it was all V6's or just those with Nav.
And maybe instead of suggesting people drive one I should have said - drive several!
I have had mine for over 2 months now and a little over 2000 miles. I have not noticed any problem with the VCm, of sort mentioned here.
As for the article quoted, there are as many, if not more, articles out there that praise Honda's neVCM that don't. That does not mean some are not having a problem, neither thta they are all faulty.
Actually, today in northern Ca we had a very nice day, it reached 71 degrees at times so I decided to take a long ride and test out various scenarios. I put close to 200 highway miles on my V6 EXL driving on I-80 which has moderate ups and downs as well as long stretches of almost flat terrain. I had cruise control on for half of the trip, I tried various speeds, etc. and did not notice any of the issues some people have noticed.
"....how many '08 V6 owners even KNOW about car space? That they don't know about it and/or do not post does not mean they too aren't having similar experiences...."
Not everyone belongs to this forum so not all the ones with the VCM issue post here, on the other hand, neither do a lot of people to drive V6 with VCM and have no problem with it. I am not sure why either side needs to speculate how many cars out there are having problems or not. I would suggest that let's just everyone talk about our own cars and issues that we personally are experiencing.
Thanks for sharing your experience. As for the Accord w/ Navi cooment how did you learn about this and what was exactly said? I have not seen "any" posts anywhere from anyone having any issues with their Navi. (check the Navi/bluetooth thread). I have the Navi model so do 2 other people I know. My 06 Pilot has the Navi and my friend has the 08 TL (w/ the pretty much the same Navi). The Navi models have been scarce from the beginning and harder to get/negotiate on ever since. It could be that the dealers are telling you that so that you would take delivery of a non-Navi model they have access to rather than go elsewhere looking for it. Jusr=t a thought.
P.S. Sorry for the Navi post here in VCM, but it kind of relates. We'll take it to the Navi thread, though!