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Here is the deal -- historically anything called 4WD did not have a differential between the front and rear. So when it was in 2WD mode, you could drive it on the street. When it was in 4WD mode, you could not. This is what makes people think that anything called 4WD is not modern and not good on the street.
If you add a differential in between the front and rear, it is called full-time 4WD. The advantage of this is you can keep four wheels driven all the time. This is what the Sequoia and Land Cruiser have.
AWD is the same as full-time 4WD but gives up the low-gear setting. So it is actually the same, but with one less feature.
The Sequoia has a button which will lock the differential, turning it into a transfer case, and converting the full-time 4WD to a part-time 4WD system. Hence why it is multi-mode.
The fact that it is multi-mode leads to situations where there is confusion with calling it AWD or 4WD. Just call it full-time 4WD with a locking differential. To make matters more confusing, you can put the Sequoia into 2WD mode. This makes it sound like it is not 'full time 4WD' but it is. I mean, it is capable of driving in 4WD all the time, on pavement, which part-time 4WD (or simply 4WD) vehicles cannot do. So it is both part time 4WD (when the differential is locked or when it is in 2WD mode), and full time 4WD (when the central diff is active).
What I don't know is if the Sequoia has limited slips front and rear. I hope it does or else if the two right or two left wheels are on ice, it can get stuck. This is why some hard-core systems have axle lockers. But yeah, that would be a pain for a road car.
"Full time 4WD" means that you can drive all 4 wheels on dry pavement due to a differential between front and real axles.
"Part time 4WD" means there is no differential, and you must not drive four wheels on dry pavement.
You can have "Full time 4WD" combined with "Part time 4WD" in the same vehicle, just by having a way to lock this central differential. The Sequoia can do that, so it is both full-time and part-time 4WD.
I think you are confusing the fact that it is not always in 4WD mode as meaning that it is 'part-time 4WD.' That is not the case.
Also the fact that it can go into 2WD mode does not mean it is not 'full-time 4WD.' It is 'full-time 4WD' when in that mode. The fact that you have to be below 60 MPH to change modes does not mean anything.
Here is something I am unsure about: Are you saying that you cannot leave the Sequoia in 4WD for weeks at a time? Meaning, if you put it in 4WD, and turn off the truck. And restart it, will it start back up where you left it in 4WD, or will it revert to 2WD?
I believe if you just leave it in 'full time 4WD' mode, it will mechanically be identical to a LC. The LC can also go into "part time 4WD" model, and low-gear mode. As far as I can tell, the Sequoia just adds a 2WD mode which is totally optional and in no way effects the 4WD modes.
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I own a 2006 Lexus LX470 and in my very short Christmas list is a new SUV. I have already test drove the new Land Cruiser, hopefully soon I can test drive the new Sequoia and then the LX570.
The 2008 LC/LX are are the same animal just with different collar, a luxury collar, one those three SUV's are the only ones in my Christmas stocking wish list.
My main complain with LC/LX is interior room either on the previous models or the 2008, is not much room.
From the driver and front passenger seat point of view my LX is very comfortable, this what I am hoping the new Sequoia will accomplished for both my wife and I.
If once we test drive the Sequoia and both agree, we'll get the 4x4 Platinum, loaded and still would have saved a huge bundle even with the new technology.
As some of you have pointed out in a few weeks the dealer will be selling below MSRP. I am willing to wait till February, instead of a Christmas gift it will be a birthday.
As to whether the Sequoia is over priced, we will see. If people buy them, then no, if they don't buy them, then yes. The market will take care of pricing.
BTW, I saw a Platinum that had an MSRP of $62k (without taxes or anything else). They had added some extra braking system to it, which was a $2300 extra. Had not seen that before and do not see it listed as an option. Strange option since I thought the brakes on the new Sequoia were great to begin with.
The Toyota Sequoia Prices Paid and Buying Experience discussion is active right now with '07 closeouts, but it's another one to track.
http://www.torsen.com/products/T-1.htm
It is the differential that is used in the Hummer H1. Unlike a viscous fluid coupling, it adjusts torque before there is wheel slip.
This detects wheel slip and applies brake to the wheel that is slipping. This has the effect of redirecting torque to the non-slipping wheel and seems brilliant.
I am confused about one thing...
The guy who posted that said it is the same system used on 1999 and new Hummer H1s. I looked those up, and they do have the slip sensor and braking system but they use it in conjunction with a Torsen torque-sensing differential to apply up to 5 times as much torque to the non-slipping wheel as to the slipping wheels. It seems like Toyota uses open differentials instead. He says because they are more reliable though I wonder if it is just to save money. And then you can only redirect as much torque as the brakes eat up. So it sounds much less effective than the 5:1 multiplier of the Torsen system that H1 uses.
Sequoia does have a Torsen between front and rear, and it is still unclear to me if you can lock it. And it also appears that if you can and do, then the ActiveTrac is disabled which seems like it would give up the right/left torque management in exchange for solid front/back torque balancing. So it seems like one step forward, and one step backward. I am not sure why they could not have ActiveTrack stay on.
It would seem like the ultimate automatic AWD system would be using 3 Torsen differentials combined with the automatic braking based on wheel slip. If you had this, I don't see much if any additional benefit of lockers.
Moreover, some websites claim part-time 4WD means that you cannot run on pavement, and others claim it just means you can sometimes go into 2wd. It sure seems like the terminology is too simplistic for the various ways to implement this stuff. It is kind of like using the firearm terms single action or double action where they run into problems describing newer types of actions such as on the Glock which has features from both systems.
There is a paper you can buy here:
http://206.160.145.240/technical/papers/911900
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2008-TOYOTA-SEQUOIA-RWD-4dr-5-7L-SR5-Natl-WoW-LQQ- K_W0QQitemZ160192088595QQihZ006QQcategoryZ31873QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZView- Item
Does anyone know if these are 20’ inch wheels and what are they called (or option code)?
Those are 18 inch wheels. It says so on the door plate photo.
I can't believe Toyota wants buyers to pony up $11,000 to go to the next level of Sequoia to get something I believe should be standard, if not optional, on the base model. You can build and price yourself a $49,000 loaded SR5, but you can't get power heated outside mirrors. This is a major safety item I believe Toyota has overlooked on both the Sequoia and 4Runner base models.
After 7 years of a minivan I told the wife she could get anything she'd like. We drove the MDX, Q7, RangeRoverSport, Escalade, X5, MB 320CDI & 450, LX470 and just for the heck of it the newly redesigned 08 Seqouia Platinum (fully loaded).
I will tell you her "dream car" was the RR Sport - that is until she drove it. Now while it's off-road prowess was amazing - it just drove poorly to both of us. Heavy & Boxy, while little pickup. We live in Chicago - and do NO off roading - unless it snows and you end up down an embankment! So we had decided initially on the Escalade (for all the room and easy to get to third row seating OR the MB 320 which drove like a dream and had awesome gas mileage as it's a diesel (but had less storage & claustrophobic third row seats) - that is until we drove the newly redesigned 08 Sequoia Platinum - (completely loaded with a sticker of just over 59k)...
Let me tell you, where all other SUV's with stickers from 60 - 75k fall short or don't carry options you'd like - the Toyota is all that and then some. The problem is an almost 60k sticker for a Toyota. Now, I am a haggler. I called every dealer in the Chicago area haggling a 36 month/18k mile lease on one and the best price with only first and plates down was $1068 a month.(First quote I got was $1335 at the dealership we test drove at!!!) In my book, that's just too high for a Toyota. But, I will tell you this, when they start having trouble moving these things - reasons why: you can drive a RR Sport. Escalade, MB (any of the above vehicles we test drove for cheaper - since there are no current sales incentives on the Sequoia) once the incentives come out - do yourself a favor and test drive one. They are a luxury vehicle inside - think Lexus without the exterior badging.
I mean the list is endless: sunshades on all rear windows, power hatch & rear hatch power window, navi, bluetooth, bi-xenon, sunroof, power folding third row seats, heated second row seats, rear entertainment with an actual plug in (rather than the DC outlet which looks like a cigarette lighter - which is great if you have kids who like video games - no need to buy a power inverter, towing transmission: a towing push button setting which changes the trans shifting patterns, a button for ride control (sport to comfort: for Sport think X5 handling (OK, not quite that good) and MB ride for comfort, heated and ventilated seats, laser controlled distance cruise control, rear backup camera, power and memory seats as well as power/memory tilt and telescopic steering wheel. The list of features on this truck is AWESOME!
When we got done driving it (and we drove it last) - my wife and I both were sold on it - we were ready to lease especially since the sticker was 10-12k cheaper than the Escalade or MB320...then we heard the numbers. It's just, at the end of the day, even knowing I was getting a good deal on the Sequoia based on the no incentives, it's kinda hard to justify paying that much for a Toyota. In my opinion, it's NOT a luxury name - it's just not a Lexus, or Benz or Range Rover...maybe that makes me shallow...? But, in all honesty the Toyota is not a head turner in that same way. Granted those who have drove one, will know what a wonderful SUV it is when they see one on the street, but the exterior styling and Toyota name is what I couldn't get past.
I will say I have a 06 Tundra Double Cab SR5 (before redesign) thats wonderful that I use to tow our boats and it drives great. Toyota reliability is generally top notch. But the pricing on the lease of the Sequoia being higher than 10-15k more expensive stickered vehicles, also being a first year design (maybe some bugs that will need to get worked out?) we ended up passing when it was all said and done. If, the price were cheaper, which I know it will be in a couple months maybe 4-6 months when some pricing/dealer incentives come out - that will be the time where this car is priced right.
Alas, in the end we went with the best lease rate we got, it was on the 08 Escalade AWD totally loaded for $965 month 39mo/18k. Some reliability issues on these boards on other about the Caddy, but my wife really liked it best and after a week of driving it - no problems to speak of that we have noticed - YET. It's nice - although our hold up was that it doesn't have a telescopic steering wheel and no bluetooth (but OnStar links with our verizon phones). But, we both still talk about the Sequoia. If only the pricing were cheaper I know she and I both acknowledge we'd have one in the garage.
Take my word for it, if you are in the Luxury SUV market, you owe it to yourself to test drive one. I guarantee it will not disappoint you. I bet in most cases it will cause some confusion on how this SUV can be so good - even better than the more expensive and more prestigious car makes out there. It really is that well thought out and packaged inside.
I saw the Red Rock Interior on a Crew Max and really liked it. I particularly wanted this interior because both the grey and beige interiors available with a Platinum have light colored carpeting which is sure to look dirty over time. I felt the black carpeting and door panels that are part of the Red Rock package would look better over time. Unfortunately Toyota doesn't offer a dark interior other than with Red Rock.
I thought it looked ok but my wife felt that there were too many colors inside -- silver, black, and the red rock. I asked them to find another to swap. I drove it 14 miles and I like how it drives. The handling was good. The steering was a little more assisted than I like, but it was ok. The Japanese designer did say the steering was 'for women.'
I hope we are making the right decision. It is possible when I get the other one I will like the Red Rock one better.
True, they should have had black carpet with the graphite interior. Better yet, they should have a black interior and not tried to get fancy with the silver dash and door accents.
Furthermore, the CRI of Halogen lamps is 0.98 whereas HID is 0.75 -- which is terrible and the same as Metal Halide street lamps. This means it is not full spectrum and does not render color well. Also HID do not reach full brightness right away.
So the real advantage of HID lamps is that they can have a smaller reflector. This is possible because their emitter is smaller. While that may make sense on a Porsche, I think the Sequoia would look ridiculous with tiny little HID reflectors. So why do you want them? Knowing all this, if you were a smart Japanese design guy, would you have specified HID for a truck application?
For offroad use only as they are 100 watts and I think 65 is the road limit.
One source: http://autolights4less.com/he-h83140282.html
If you can, I would scrap off the blue filter. They put that on for the low-rider/spinner wheel crowd to pretend they have HID lamps. However, it absorbs light and converts it to heat. better to have the natural color temp and more light.
Since the Platinum has auto-leveling rear-suspension it should reduce other drivers getting light in their eyes.
Wine stains will not be so obvious.
Hope you like whichever one you settle on.
Merry Christmas to all,
If Halogens are indeed better why is it that HIDs are either standard or optional on every lexus, MB, BMW, Acura, Infiniti and even non-luxury brands such as Nissan (Altima, Maxima etc.), Toyota (Prius!!, Avalon) and Honda (S2000)?
HIDs don't necessarily have to have a small reflector either. The reflector on my G35 is the same size, if not larger than the low beam reflector on the '08 Sequoia. Additionally, using a halogen with a higher wattage may not always be ideal for two reasons (i) they increase glare for oncoming drivers, and (ii) the factory wiring harnesses may not support the higher current draw. Glare can very much be an issue for HIDs as well, however, if aimed correctly, they provide the best night time illumination I have seen.
Many folks tend to equate HIDs with being a luxury item....I don't. I want the HIDs because they simply provide better night time illumination.....and this is speaking from experience. The reason Toyota has not offered them on this vehicle is simple -- cost. An HID system with ballasts etc. is a lot more costly than a halogen setup. So, thats where my gripe comes in.....$60K is a lot for a vehicle to not offer HIDs.
I still like the Sequoia a lot. All I'm saying is if cost was an issue for Toyota, they should have offered them as optional on the platinum.
If they were offered as optional, I'd have a hard time believing people purchasing a Platinum would not opt for them.
HID talk aside, these are the four things that would make a platinum sequoia a perfect vehicle for me:
1. Smart key and push button start.
2. Removable center console in the platinum (the 2 car seat issue associated with not having a walk through to the rear).
3. HIDs
4. An 8" navigation screen as opposed to 7".
Don't get me wrong, I still really like this vehicle a lot. It has a lot to offer including a superb powertrain, great flexibility and toyota reliability. If I could get into a loaded Platinum for a hair less than $55K, I'd have one in my driveway already. I'm currently in the "wait and see" camp for now.
PS: I really like the red rock interior.
Have you considered the Molded Dash Applique', which is simulated wood grain and covers selected dash components. The picture shows that it would cover the silver dash. I have seen this when it was offered on the Sequoia Limited luxury edition. I don't know how this would look with the Redrock interior but at least it would cover up most of the silver.
The brochure doesn't say if it would also cover the silver door arm rest. This accessory should be available in Jan.
http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2007/11/escalade-platin.html
HIDs are generally brighter (more lumens) because they produce more lumens per watt, and the feds limit headlamps to 65 watts. So it is one way to get around the limit by making a lighter brighter than the government wants. The feds should have provided a lumen or maybe an intensity limit, not a watt limit. But yes, brighter is an advantage. That is a win for HID.
Smaller cars like the S2000 can also benefit from HID due to the fact they can work with a smaller reflector. A truck does not need a small reflector. As you said, the reflector does not need to be small.
So the real question is -- is the added brightness of HID worth the CRI going from 98 to 75? I am not sure. I have never heard anyone mention it so I think very few people are aware of CRI. For me it would depend on how much of a lumen difference there is.
I am really into fancy flashlights and even own an HID flashlight. In a flashlight, lumens-per-watt is a huge deal. In a car it is also important due to the 65 watt fed limit. However, before I pass final judgment, I want to know how many lumens the 2008 Sequoia puts out. My biggest complaint about your point is that you do not know how many lumens the Sequoia puts out, and you are complaining about it without knowing. What if it puts out more lumens than the HID lights in an S2000? If you test it and it is poor, then complain. If it is close to an HID, then the much higher CRI wins. If it really is a much lower in brightness than HID as you think it is -- then you are right.
"1. Smart key and push button start.
2. Removable center console in the platinum (the 2 car seat issue associated with not having a walk through to the rear).
3. HIDs
4. An 8" navigation screen as opposed to 7". "
Instead of all that, I would settle for a black dash instead of silver. I am not sure what is nice about push button start. I mean I guess it would be fun just for a change of pace. My father's $20,000 Passat has it.
"Have you considered the Molded Dash Applique', which is simulated wood grain and covers selected dash components."
No, I don't like fake wood-grain. If it was easy to take off the silver panels I would just paint them black.
:shades:
:shades:
I hope that is not true. I can almost accept it being made in America (I would prefer Japan like a Land Cruiser) but I will be much more skeptical of the design if it was designed by Americans. My current theory is Americans can assemble a car ok as long as they don't design it. This explains why US made Mercedes are ok. Now if it was designed by Americans, that might explain the cheap looking interior.
http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/bulbs/Hid/disadvantages/disadvantages.ht- ml
Backs up what I said. HID may be better, but not automatically so.
OK, So These Extra-White Bulbs Aren't The Best Choice For Maximizing My Headlamps' Performance. What Should I Get Instead?
For those who want the best possible performance from their headlamps and are more concerned with their ability to see rather than the appearance of their headlamps, the major bulb companies offer optimized bulbs without the light-stealing blue glass. Narva RangePower+50 and RangePower+30, GE Night Hawk, and Philips Vision Plus, and Osram Silver Star are the ones to get.
http://www.danielsternlighting.com/products/products.html
If the factory wiring cannot handle the power, you can make a relay circuit and stuff 100-130 watters in there. They will outperform HID for CRI and match it for lumens.
From the article:
We can put some of it into the high-intensity zone of the beam (the "hot spot") to improve distance vision, but we can't put too much of it there, 'cause we'll glare other drivers (and exceed regulated maximum intensities).
http://www.danielsternlighting.com/products/products.html