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I am sure everyone would jump on board if someone would start one. I emailed classaction.com they wanted to know more info but I do not have the time or the energy so I just gave up.
I am probably going to have to purchase some kind of warranty because I am stuck with this car for 5 years. Are you planning on purchasing warranty?
Lexus folks did NOT have to do this; but they did it; because they get the cost of customer acquisition. No such lessons have been learned by Acura USA!
It's too bad for a Premium brand not to understand Premium Service. It's too bad because the cars have potential. Acura has a lot of work to do before they come ANYWHERE near Lexus when it comes to "Service".
It's too bad.
Contrast that to Acura Client Services folks who they refused to cover the $1,014 charge that the dealer wanted to replace our 2004 MDX transmission. Ouch, I said!
If you are looking for Premium Service; you won't find it at Acura! Acura USA is in the SAME place MBenz folks were before Lexus started kicking their [non-permissible content removed] to the curb. Ironically, MBenz folks have since hired some senior executives from Lexus and they have gotten much better at service.
But there is no "culture" or "DNA"of servicing luxury customers at Acura at this point. If a class action law suit will straighten them out; more power to us; but I doubt it. I think they need a crisis of confidence like Toyota is going through to clean house.
If you insist on purchasing MDX, look at 07 and on, not anything prior to 07. If you can't afford the 07, I'd look at other brands.
I am happy, I hope with getting a new transmission under warranty. But then again, I wonder if this is going to fix my issue. Based upon other comments, some people are working on the second or third replacement now. With the transmission being replaced, should I also request for the torque convertor to be replaced as well?
To date, I have had my timing belt replaced, under warranty, my blue tooth under warranty, a serp belt, and a strut all under warranty. I have only had this vehicle for three years. Is this a sign to trade in this piece of junk now?
When does your warranty run out? If I were you, I'd keep it til the warranty runs out then dump it.
Now I have a new problem.
will start new message in the hopes someone can advise.
My thinking is that at 140,000 miles, you might be buying a lot of headache unless the car has had one owner, serviced regularly and all the required repairs have been done to it. You could be buying someone else's headache.
For our own part, we have lost complete confidence in the Acura brand and are planning to sell our 2004 MDX even though I just replaced the timing belt, water pump.....etc for the tune of $900! We are simply not happy with the quality of the brand. Even the reception on the Bose radio is a disaster and I keep hearing there are service bulletins on that which I should research.....etc. Who has time for this crap!?
Mind you, our expectation of quality and amazing service was set up by Lexus! It's their fault that they have made Acura people look like idiots.
Personaly, I'd buy a Ford. We're selling our 2003 MDX when the replacement tranny goes out of warranty. I won't even burden my grandaughter by giving it to her. This was our 2nd Acura and I won't buy another because of what I've read on this blog.
If you have times of need for the VTM-4 system, sustained periods of driving on a low traction surface, then wire a manual switch in series with the fuses in order to activate the VTM-4 system ONLY at times of need.
They did, they replaced the VTM-4 system with the SH-AWD system. And who knows, they may have, at any time, provided a firmware revision, factory update or field "reflash" (TSB, there is one) that reduced the overall % of rear drive coupling.
There are basically 2 categories of F/awd systems, pre-emptive and reactive.
Reactive: After the Fact. The system "reacts" only once, AFTER, wheelspin/slip is detected.
These are basically ONE-Wheel drive systems with "virtual" torque proportioning. Virtual LSD and/or "AWD" modes via "after-the-fact" TDC braking of a slipping wheel or wheels. The problem becomes that the engine must also be dethrottled just as INSTANTLY since loss of traction on the front biased front wheels is so life threatening.
That's why many of these same vehicles now have a TDC (Traction/Directional Control) disable switch.
Pre-emptive: Since there really is no way, in this case, to predict the future the next best choice is made. Activate the torque re-apportioning system but ONLY at times when wheelspin/slip is most likely to result.
1. During low speed acceleration, acceleration from a stop, or hard acceleration at "higher", 25MPH, speeds.
2. During a turn, most especially a TIGHT turn, or with moderate to hard acceleration while turning.
Note that these techniques do not, CANNOT, allow for actual roadbed conditions, HIGHLY tractive conditions or not. In the case of technique #2 it is inadviseable to have HIGH engine torque applied SOLELY to the front wheels when a significant level of front tire traction co-efficient must/SHOULD be dedicated to lateral G-force, preventing loss of directional control.
But these compromises can result in highly stressing, even over-stressing, the driveline components if the roadbed happens to be tractive.
Anyone who has driven a true 4WD on a highly tractive roadbed with 4WD engaged will attest to this. In a true 4WD with 4WD engaged in a tight turn on a tractive surface the resulting wheel scrubbing/hop can be so severe as to break thumbs and/or fingers of an unwary or inexperienced driver.
Take a look at the past ten years or so of the history of the Ford Escape F/awd system. Virtually continuous tries by Ford to allevaite/bate the PTO/PTU and rear clutch/diff'l failures as a result of the driveline component stress resulting from pre-emptive engagement of rear torque apportioning on tractive surfaces.
All because the reactive system has been well proven to be unsatisfactory, JUSTIFIABLY so, in the public's "eye".
It seems to me that a good, STELLAR, compromise might be to have these F/awd systems remain in, default into, "reactive" mode for adverse roadbed conditions for which the driver might be unaware, but with a driver operated switch to convert to the system to pre-emptive mode for KNOWN adverse roadbed conditions.
With the advent of the use of this "pre-emptive" F/awd system on the new Ford Explorer (and yes, I intended to use F/awd and Ford Explorer in the same sentence), Ford has adopted a method of using engine coolant to provide continuous cooling of the PTO/PTU assembly. It appeared to me that this may be also true of the rear clutch/diff'l assembly but I have not been able to get a direct answer from Ford on this question.
Are you certain he didn't say "scored sides"
I once had a Ford Pinto 4 cylinder engine ingest a screw through the carburator...MY FAULT, but didn't immediately know the screw had went down the carb.
The engine ran fine for a few days, maybe a few unexpected sounds that I don't now remember, but it finally quit running, PERIOD. When I tore the engine down I found that an entire side of a piston has disintegrated, a sparkplug was "smashed" to smithereens. Strange as it may seem I was able to restore the engine to operation and it gave me good service for a number of years.
You may be looking at some serious expenses IMO.
In your case it sounds to me as if the spark plug tip came off and then bounced around in the cylinder until some serious damage resulted. The spark plug tip, "ground' tip, is welded into place during manufacture and that may have been a poor or marginal weld from the get-go.
I trusted no one re-gapped the plugs fairly recently....??
Otherwise you may have a claim against the spark plug manufacturer for a manufacturing defect.
Good luck to all and stay safe.
jensad
If you check past postings, there are numerous people who are on the 2nd or 3rd transmissions. The new generation of TLs are now showing many transmissions issues and the MDX's transmissions have been a nightmare for years.
The vehicle you are considering has over 100,000 miles. The Acura people at their headquarters are uncaring and arrogant. They may offer you $500 or $1,000 off of the price of an inflated price of $5,000 for a rebuilt transmission.
Stay clear of any used vehicle like this.
I use my MDX for a lot of towing which is killer on transmissions and other components. I bought it with 24k and now have 100k. My MDX did not include a towing package so I had to add it. Instead of the factory towing package option that includes a larger albeit passive transmission cooler and power steering cooler, I went aftermarket and bought those components with their own cooling fan (active). The fan automatically turns on when the transmission fluid hits 190 degrees (anytime, not just while towing).
I'm not going to throw out exact numbers that I can't qualify, but most car nuts will agree that excessive heat is the #1 cause of all automatic transmission problems. In fact, excessive heat is the cause of a lot of other part failures, including engines, home electronics, etc, but I digress. Automatic transmissions depend a LOT on their fluid. Everyone knows oil is important to an engine but at the end of the day, it's only job is providing lubrication to the engine. Automatic trans fluid not only provides lubrication for the transmission, but it also helps propel the car. I won't go into detail but it's essentially centrifugal force of the fluid. Guess what happens to overheated transmission fluid? It becomes burned and decomposes. Now the blood of your transmission is trying to squeeze through tiny holes that are getting reduced in size due to bad fluid building up in them (like arteries getting clogged with cholesterol). Over time this will kill your transmission. And my understanding is that the MDX transmission has abnormally small passageways which is why failure is so common. I haven't taken apart an MDX transmission myself so I can't say for sure but this does line up to be accurate.
So what does all this mean to you? A few things. It's too late for those that already killed their transmissions. Shops really don't service much on transmissions anymore because they're too complicated so they just replace the whole thing. But if your transmission is good and isn't on it's way out... FLUSH YOUR FLUID REGULARLY! Again this gets complicated but the MDX holds around 12 quarts of fluid (I don't have the exact number in front of me but it's about that). When you "drain" or "change" the fluid, only about 3 quarts come out. So that's 75% old fluid left in there! The problem is a bulk of the fluid is inside the torque converter and there's no way to drain it. So flushing it means that you (or have a shop) drain it, fill it, take it for short ride, drain it, fill it, etc. You do this 3 times which mathematically changes over 80% of the fluid during a flush. Most shops don't do this as normal maintenance and it's not cheap. I do it myself every 30k and it costs about $100 in fluid alone. The Acura maintenance schedule calls for a "change" which means you have original fluid in there for 120k or so.
If you've read this far, you'll be interested to know another very strange point. Leaving your A/C on (by default with the climate control at all times even in winter unless you turn it off) will actually help extend the transmission life. Here's how I know and why. Back to the fan I installed, it runs anytime the fluid gets too hot. Well the fan barely runs at all unless I am towing or driving a lot of stop and go traffic on 90+ degree days. But I found that if I turn the A/C off, the transmission fan will run in just normal driving even in 40 degree weather. Reason being, the A/C turns on its own fan in front of the radiator. If you pay attention most people hear that running. That fan actually plays double duty and not only cools the A/C refrigerant but also helps cool the transmission fluid even if you only have the factory Acura setup (towing package and not towing package, both come with a cooler, just one is bigger than the other). I personally don't think that's Acura's intended purpose, but it is true.
So moral of my story, I feel bad for a lot of the people posting here and I feel bad for Acura. You can't blame them if you or a previous owner didn't maintain the car properly. I love how people are going to sue Acura because they have a bad transmission. Obviously there are lemons out there but there's a lot more people that drive terribly and neglect maintenance that cause the problems they're having. I totally agree that the things I do to save the life of my transmission shouldn't really have to be done and maybe Acura should have realized that? But I do think if you maintain it properly from the beginning, the transmission will last the life of the car. Rebuilt transmissions are a whole other story and are MUCH more likely to have a problem than the original. But there's not many options if it's already too late.
Well, I don't have time to proofread this so sorry if something didn't make sense. Hope it's helpful to someone!
FYI, I am in the industry and work with other manufacturers on a national and international level. I know the tricks and I know how they try to hide the tuna fish behind the fridge. This smells bad and people are getting hurt by Honda's persistent avoidance of addressing the issue.
FYI. My car has, since it's initial day off the lot, had EVERY service done at an Acura/ Honda dealer and on time or ahead of time.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/classified/automotive/sns-spider-problem-shows-up-- in-honda-20110309,0,5881925.story
Fact: $hitball of vehicle maker Mazda stands behind their product.
Fact: Honda/Acura looooooooooooves to hide behind their stupid TSB's.
By your own admission you are performing transmission service ABOVE-and-BEYOND the manufacturer recommendations to be able to keep your car on the road. That's an absurd requirement from an owner in this day & age; specially for a car that's marketed as a luxury brand!
Thanks again for sharing good info on AC. I am thinking of installing a ice cooler inside the engine compartment to keep the transmission cooler. I just have to stop every few miles at 7-11 and fill up on ice.
What do you think?!
No, the MAJOR source of ATF heating is/WAS the gear type oil pump and pressure relief/bypass valve. This is/was virtually the equivalent of the "old" hydraulic power stearing pump. Pump up the fluid (2000-3000RPM, LOTS of fluid flow) pressure to 3000PSI and then simply bypass the pressure back into the sump with NO no stearing effort required.
Talk about HEAT..!!
Up until more recently that was THE major source of ATF HEATING.
Beginning at about the turn of the century the industry began the abolition of the old system in favor of a "real-time" ATF line pressure control system. The pressure holding/sustaining accumulator and the fixed pressure relief spring was eliminated. While the ATF pressure pump still runs at engine RPM speed it no longer does so against a CONSTANT/FIXED head of pressure unless the ECU commands such due to pressure demands of shifting, etc.
AND....
The heating due to the "centrifugal" force of the torque converter has also been mostly eliminated due to the lockup clutch now being made robust enough that it can be engaged 65% or more of the time. 90% seems to be the target for future, 2015, systems.
So why the high failure rate...?
The lockup clutch is not robust enough to overcome the additional driveline stress, tire scrubbing, etc, of having a "pre-emptive F/awd system. In effect, a center diff'l that locks up for any low speed acceleration or turning event regardless of roadbed traction conditions.
Any experienced 4WD owner will advise you that having both front and rear drives engaged, often engaged, on a tractive surface will soon result in failure of the weakest link in the driveline.
In the MDX case that turns out to be the lockup clutch, considered a component of the torque converter.
If the MDX adopted the new real-time ATF line pressure control system PRIOR to adopting DBW as did Toyota (early RX300's) I would expect a goodly number of premature transaxle failures as happened with the RX300's, especially the 99-00.
With the advent of the RX330 Lexus had adopted DBW to help prevent these failures. DBW allowed them to delay the onset of engine rising torque regardless of accelerator pedal position, to prevent damage to the drive train resulting from the lack of INSTANT availability of ATF line pressure.
This resulted in a great number of complaints of a 1-2 second "re-acceleration" DOWNSHIFT delay/hesitation, complaints which continue to this day, justifiably so, it seems.
Most modern day HVAC control systems will automatically disable the A/C compressor if/should the engine coolant temperature begin to rise, seriously rise, as a result of A/C operation.
But even absent reaching that point if the A/C is actually doing "work", actively cooling the system evaporator airflow, then the additional heat load on the radiator might well yield a negative result.
I wouldn't be so certain of that were I you..
Maybe yesteryear, prior to 2000, say.
Modern day automatic transmissions make use, ~65%, of the torque converter's lockup clutch in much the same way as you would make use of the clutch in a manual transmission.
And yet another point...
External cooling capability can keep the AVERAGE temperature of the ATF within reason, but what about the ATF having been over-heated only at some "localized" point, say the ATF gear type pump and pressure bypass/relief valve...?
In any case 106k miles probably isn't all that bad for a 1st generation MDX.
I really hope that you sue them and win!
For the record, I have not been overly impressed with the build quality of the MDX. I do think it's a decent vehicle but I notice a lot of areas where corners were cut. I'm still happy with it but I think it rivals the quality of the Explorer I had previously which is either good for Ford or bad for Acura. I was expecting more from Acura to be honest.
Caveat is, I don't know of any manufacturer that offers a good quality transmission cooler from the factory except for some heavy duty trucks (yes, maybe they exist as I have not inspected every auto trans setup from each brand, but it's definitely would be unusual at best). Why don't they include them? I guess it's the few $'s. To me its the same reason I wonder why manufacturers use $20 speakers even in their "upgraded" sound systems when I can buy an excellent aftermarket speaker for $80. I guess this is the stuff that keeps the price down for consumers.
Certainly you may know more about mechanics than me. After all, it is just my hobby. However, I do think you have a few points of misinformation. First, the lockup torque converter on the MDX doesn't come into play until highway speeds. Heat is rarely building up at these speeds anyway. As you know, its the low stop/go speeds that cause heat and stress.
Additionally, the 4WD system really has nothing to do with transmission failure other than maybe making it work a little harder (more heat). There is a separate transfer case for the 4WD components.
And yes, I agree there's a lot more than just the torque converter that cause heat. But regardless, heat is the problem here however it's caused and I was simply trying to help people who may be researching this to understand that.
First, since about 2005 to improve FE the lockup clutch is engaged at any and all speeds EXCEPT under acceleration or when the brake are applied. That's why I often refer to transaxles as having 6(10) speeds, the lockup clutch use is enabled in the top 4 gears.
"..the 4WD drive system.."
Get into an actual 4WD, transfer case, and with center differential LOCKED, drive it for, say, 20 miles on a highly tractive surface and then take it directly to a shop for repair. The only difference is the MDX has the "center diff'l" LOCKED only under acceleration or during low speed turns.
But sooner or later you will have accummulated that same highly stressful, OVER-STRESSING, ~20 miles.
I know I am through w Acura after this mdx. I am finally going to pay slightly more and move up to Lexus.
The 99-00 RXes were dogs insofar as premature transmission failures.
The newer, 2010 and after RX350 models have a muchly improved F/awd system but still remains FAR below the F/awd standard set by the SH-AWD system.
It appears that the early failures of the MDX transaxles/TC were the result of the use of the VTM-4 F/awd system.
On the other hand, for the new RX or the MDX (or even the new Explorer) I would disable the rear drive engagement clutch except for times of suspected need.
No reason to needlessly chance a transaxle, TC, rear clutch system, or PTO failure.
ps....my next car will be a Ford.
I figured the Lexus would continue to be expensive compared to my Acura so I switched over to Acura.. Both are excellent vehicles but I'll stick with my Acuras.
Good luck to all and stay safe.
jensad