Toyota 4Runner

tbcreative · September 2002

While I have been wishing that was the case after seeing the Prado pics, and pondering what the other SUVs Toyota was talking about for the U.S., I really doubt that they would bring a 3rd version of the same platform here that would compete with the 4Runner and have an almost identical design as the GX. As much as I hate to say it, because as I stated before, the Prado is the best-looking of the three, I think Toyota has other plans for the additional SUVs they'll be adding to their lineup. I'm wondering though, if one of them may be the 2-door version of the Prado/90. There aren't many SUVs left in the 2-door configuration because of their decline in popularity, but maybe Toyota feels they can fill the void and dominate sales with a better truck than the Blazer ZR-2, the Explorer Sport, the Vehicross, or the Rodeo Sport.

Who knows, though. I'd like to hear from our resident Toyota experts to see what they say, but I'm pretty confident that we won't be seeing the Prado/LC90 in the U.S. any time soon, if at all.

brian124 · September 2002

I thought the fuel guage problem had been corrected before 2000? Anyway, I don't have any problems with my 01. I typically put 15 gallons in if I fill up immediately after the light comes on. I usually drive for another 20+ miles and end up putting around 16 or 17 gallons in. That sounds like the way it should work. I agree with Mitchipa though, try to keep your car out of the shop unless you have to. I had a fuel line replaced when my 4runner was less that a week old and they ended up setting tools on the hood and scratching it up pretty bad. Of course I got the response that the scratches must have been there before I brought it in.

rsholland · September 2002

has always been a vehicle for other markets. I doubt you'll ever see it in North America.

Bob

mackabee · September 2002

When will they stop the teasing? There is a 1 inch picture of the new runner on the back of the Tacoma 03 brochure! Looks like the limited in the same blue that Paul s. took the pictures of. It was photographed under a water fall and from the angle of the picture looks like a Sequoia with a Tundra grille. Not bad looking at all. Brochures will be here next week!
: )
Mackabee

cliffy1 · September 2002

The 2003 Runners will have available side impact air curtains. We now have the TVO book on these things and I know what equipment mix will be coming to the Central Atlantic Region. Unfortunately, I don't have any clue as to what most of the new option codes mean. I did see one familiar option code which is GY. That code indicates a full side impact curtain like the Sequoia has. In this region, 100% of the Limiteds, 5% of the Sport and 15% of the SR5s will have this during the initial allocation. I'm sure this will change as demand becomes known.

cliffy1 · September 2002

Of the Runners coming to the CAT Region, here is the break down. I will list options where I know what the codes mean. Where I don't know the meaning of the code, I will just put the code. Also, I am only listing the 4WD models. There are a few 2WDs coming but who cares about that.

41 SR5 with premium single disc CD, NE, AL (this is alloy wheels but I don't know if it is 16" or 17"), KG, roof rack, CM and spoiler.

189 with the exact same equipment plus moonroof and 6 disc CD.

40 with same as second version plus side air curtains.

148 Sport models with EH (I think this is heated side mirrors), roof, KG, CM, spoiler and sport package (hood scoop, 17" alloys, radio controls on steering wheel, upgrade shocks, fog lights and a few other goodies).

8 Sport models with same equipment plus navigation and side air bags.

294 Limiteds with roof, 6 disc, side air bags, spoiler and daytime running lights.

15 Limited with the same plus navigation.

superleggera · September 2002

Thanks Cliffy! Now we're getting down to the details. I can't wait. One of the big questions that has been floating around is timing of V6s. Will the V6 be available at the same time as the V8 or will we have to wait? I think I would go with the SR5 or Sport model as described above. May have to add leather to that package too (heresy, I know).

cliffy1 · September 2002

No V6 in this allocation. I believe the rumors of December build for that which means January delivery.

rsholland · September 2002

Toyota is as bad as the American car companies, when it comes to options! Half the stuff Cliffy has mentioned should be standard, not optional!

That's always been my biggest complaint when comes to Toyota productsany Toyota product. I much prefer Honda's and Subaru's approach, of offering *standard* high-content vehicles.

Bob

cliffy1 · September 2002

From what I understand, the import duties are assessed on the base MSRP, rather than the total. Therefore, if the base is less, the taxes are less. At least that is the line my district manager gave me 8 years ago and I'm sticking to it.

beercoll1 · September 2002

Please pardon my ignorance, especially if this was discussed earlier, but what are you talking about waiting until January for the V6? Does this mean that the 2003 runners are coming in V8 version only, or are we seeing the old V6s in the new model? Please advise.

rsholland · September 2002

are reportedly a new 4.0L design, not the current 3.4L engine.

It sounds like Toyota is doing the same thing all vehicle manufacturers do; that is, pack the early models with high content (and options), and take advantage of the pent-up frenzy of those who must be the first on the block with this new vehicle, and therefore maximize their profits.

Once fury dies down, you will see more reasonably equipped (ie, V6 models), hit the showrooms.

Honda is doing that with their hot new Pilot. I've seen a bunch on the roads and on dealer lots, and EVERY ONE is a high-ticket EX model, loaded to the hilt. I've seen only one base LX model, and even it had optional alloy wheels. I'm sure Toyota will do the same with the new 4Runner, when it first debuts.

Bob

nippononly · September 2002

supposed to hit dealers around October 1, or will they be around sooner than that? The V-8 version sounds better anyway, way more torque without taking a big fuel mileage hit vs the V-6. They are going to have some available that do NOT have the leather seats, right?

If the GX is going to have a third row seat and the new Runner is not, how is it that they are the same vehicle, as I have heard?

tbcreative · September 2002

I'm not sure what you mean by "without taking a big fuel mileage hit vs the V6," when the EPA ratings are 15/18 for the 8. That's not any better than the Tahoe/Yukon 4x4, or the Durango 4x4. I'm sure the new V6 will be substantially better, with numbers close to 18/23 in 4x4 form. Sure the torque numbers are lower, but unless you do a lot of heavy towing, I think 245 HP and 283 lbs/ft of torque are pretty respectable, and may yield similar acceleration numbers as the 235 HP and 320 lbs/ft of torque V8. It depends greatly on where the power occurs in the rpms in real world driving.

As far as the 3rd seat, several insiders have shared with us their insight into the reasoning behind not offering the 3rd row in the new 4Runner. While it shares the same platform with the GX and the '03 Landcruiser Prado/90 (for over-seas), it doesn't share the same demographic or target consumer as the GX. Supposedly, Toyota found that in surveys conducted for the 4Runner, most customers didn't want a 3rd row, and felt it would interfere with off-roading because of the added weight. Also, we were told that Lexus wanted to have something to differentiate the GX a little more from the 'Runner. I wish they would have surveyed me and most of the people on this forum, and maybe they'd realize the mistake they're making in leaving it out. With enough consumer demand that's sure to flood Toyota, I'm pretty sure they'll add it for the next model year, if not sooner.

mackabee · September 2002

are pretty much useless unless you want to put your kids back there. Look at the Honda Pilot. There is minimal space back there with the third seat up. Just imagine getting rear ended and you have the kids sitting there. Most of the Pilots I've around here are being driven with the third seat folded down, better use of the cargo space.

: )
Mackabee

cliffy1 · September 2002

There will be NO V6 Runners available for a few months. In January or so, we will get the new V6.

The new Runners will be shipped to dealers on October 15. Every dealer will get at least one on that day.

superleggera · September 2002

Well, despite the fact that I don't want/need a V8, I will be there to test drive one as soon as they come in. It will be hard to wait until January, if I really like the truck at that point. But I'm sure the cost and mpg differences will make me more patient.

nippononly · September 2002

my assumption that the new V-6's mpg was about the same as the old was incorrect then? It was rated at 16/19 before, and if the new one, which is higher power and bigger, is rated the same, then I am only taking a one point hit to go with the V-8 instead.

But if they have really improved it to 18/23 for the V-6 4x4, then i will wait, because you are right - that is substantial!

I never wanted a third seat, just wondering about the similarities between the GX and the Runner. A third seat willl just take up useful space, and i would never use it.

rsholland · September 2002

the 4Runner V8 might be the only '03 Toyota truck/SUV with a 5-speed automatic. I just picked up brochures on all the '03 Toyota trucks except the 4Runner and Land Cruiser, and they all still have 4-speed automatics.

Maybe(?) the Land Cruiser will also get the 5-speed unit, as I hear the LX470 may be getting it.

BTW, only the Tacoma brochure has a small pix of the new 4Runner on the back. All the others have pixs of the current 4Runner on the back. The salesman said they *just* got the Tacoma brochures in the other day.

Bob

tbcreative · September 2002

Does anyone else find it mind-boggling that according to the specs in the Auto World article, the new 'Runners will have 5 cubic feet LESS of cargo space than the 3rd gens, with the rear seats up or down? I find this very strange and a bit upsetting. 5 cubic feet is a good sized suit case! I can understand if they were trying to increase the leg room and space in the second row, but even with the seats down, that dimension is still shy by 5 cubic feet.

Something else that's strange is that the height is the same as the 3rd gens, at least in the neutral position. I'm guessing that in the models equipped with the height-adjustable suspension, the over-all height raises up about an inch or two, but that doesn't change the interior ceiling height. The GX looks like it has a taller stance than the current 4Runner, so this stat seems a bit odd as well.

Again, I guess I'll see how all of this is in actuality, but I'm a bit concerned. I'm still befuttled by those fender flares too...

mrwhipple · September 2002

I don't think the mpg for the V6 is going to be much better than the V8. The vehicle is more than likely going to jump in weight.

Most of the SUV in the class pretty much stink in mpg's.

roadroach · September 2002

My guess would be that either the spec listed in the AutoWorld article is a typo or, more likely, their source of info is off. I find it strange that a periodical like AutoWorld would somehow manage to get their hands on official EPA volume specs when all the biggies (C&D, R&T, MT, Automobile, etc.) can't release anything at all yet.

From everything I've seen, I would expect that the interior dimensions will be a few inches wider front and rear (both hip and shoulder room)and a couple of inches more rear leg room. I don't know how Toyota would manage to LOSE any cargo volume if the inside dimensions are slightly wider and longer. I doubt the cargo space behind the rear seat is any smaller than the 3rd gen, especially if they intend to ever offer a 3rd row seat option. My guess is that the AutoWorld stat you've seen is wrong.

llepky · September 2002

Here's a pic of the new Hilux Surf (Japan's 4runner).
www.auto-g.jp/news/200209/06/newcar02/

dchyorny · September 2002

This is in reference to the tire size on a leased car question from before. If I get a fatter tire, will that affect the odometer in any kind of way? If not, than the dealership can't really say anything when I return the truck at the end of the lease... Right?

cliffy1 · September 2002

Width does not affect the outside diameter so you should be fine as long as it still passes inspection. Some states make it illegal for the tire to be wider than the outside edge of the fender wells but I doubt you're talking about something like that.

intmed99 · September 2002

kullenberg · September 2002

Here is a tire size calculator that give comparisons of diam. circumfrence, revolutions per mile. http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html

Cheers

Pat

tbcreative · September 2002

Thanks for the update and pics! I'm starting to get more excited about the design after seeing these pics. I still like the Prado front end a bit better, and the 3-door Prado looks cool on that site too. Check out this magazine's visual comparison of the 3rd gen to the new design Hilux-Surf/4Runner:

http://www.apollo-pr.co.jp/editorialdep/ke_page/ke_a/index.html

Can't wait to see one of these babies in reality...

roadroach · September 2002

From my experience (anecdotal evidence...sorry), most speedometers read a little higher than actual speed. If a slightly larger tire actually CORRECTED the indicated speed closer to the true speed, why should you have to pay any sort of penalty on the mileage at the return of the lease due to tires larger than spec?

kullenberg · September 2002

I don't think it has anything to do with the science or physics of the tire size; if the vehicle has other than the original equipment size tire, it's any opportunity to snag the consumer for extra fees or a lease violation. Some manufacturers or dealers may not take this route, others may; do you want to go to the expense of fighting it. I don't!!
Cheers
Pat

dianadg · September 2002

I just got a 2002 LTD 4runner, and found that it drives unpleasantly unstable in the rain and on wet pavement. Does anyone else notice this to be a problem??

superleggera · September 2002

TBCreative, I am also liking the design more and more. Thanks for sending us those Japanese pages. As a comparison, I went and drove the MDX today and can see why people like it for the more damped ride, but was disappointed in general. It's not worth over $40K and certainly won't compete off road.

fordnightmare · September 2002

Please be more specific. For instance, did you previously own a 2dr miata, and now find the 4-Runner "scary in rain !!!"

What is soooo scary.

A tailgating soccer mom with a minivan or suv full of kids scares me.

aggiedog · September 2002

I don't know if you have 4WD but if you do, always use it in the rain. Some folks here will tell you to just leave it in 4WD all the time because it stabilizes the suspension. You experts will correct me if that is not correct. Because of the weight, in the rain and not in 4WD, this truck will spin and slip even on the slightest hills and in turns if you are on the gas too hard. I have a 2000 LTD and in 4WD I've never had a problem in the rain.

beagles3 · September 2002

I have had two 4-Runners with 4-wheel drive (1995/1999) and I have NEVER used 4-wheel drive in the rain. I live approx 30 miles East of Seattle in the Cascade foothills (the rainbelt of Wash State) and have never had a problem with control in the rain. I currently have 103,000 on my 1999 and drive my rig with no problems. Stability has never been an issue and I love the handling of my truck rain or shine. I really only use the 4-wheel drive in the Winter when I go skiing. I am no expert,but, I truthfully can't understand your problem?

peter78 · September 2002

I heard that Toyota may have news on the new 4Runner today. Their web site (Toyota.com) has only information on the 2002's and I see that my local dealerships have 2002 models coming in till at least September 25th. Maybe today is not the day Toyota will announce the new model. Of course the day is not over with.

cliffy1 · September 2002

With the 4WD systems on the 95 and 99 you owned, using 4WD in the rain would normally not be a good idea. With the current Active-Trac system, there is no reason not to use it anytime, especially when traction is compromised (even a little bit).

nippononly · September 2002

With the pre-99 part-time 4WD, you should never engage it on pavement, wet or dry. You could wind up causing damage due to binding, since even on wet pavement the tires cannot slip enough to compensate for the speed differential between the front and rear axles.

beagles3 · September 2002

Thanks Cliffy...Hopefully, when I get the 2003 Limited I will finally know what an Active-trac syatem is like...I am so used to the part-time 4-wd, I need to get a little spoiled:)

mrwhipple · September 2002

With the part-time system, it is fine to use on the road in the rain as long as you stay under 55-60 mph. There is enough slip to keep it from binding. I use it all the time when it rains. Had an '83 4WD Toyota pickup and still have a '90. Never had any problems at all. Tranny is still in tip-top shape. Even the manual says it's fine.

beagles3 · September 2002

Ok, I have to ask?? With the Active-Trac, how do I drive for everyday driving? Are their like 2-3 buttons? I don't have a clue? I have heard folks say that they drive with the differential open?

cliffy1 · September 2002

You can drive in the "unlocked" 4wd mode all the time if you want. Just push the button on the 4wd selector. Make sure not to lock the center differential on dry pavement.

superleggera · September 2002

So what happened? Today the wraps were supposed to be off and we would get a flood of information. I haven't heard a thing about the new Runner....

world_traveler · September 2002

I heard today that we will have to wait for Sept 23rd for the 2003 4Runner. They want to make sure the dealers and sales rep get all the information before the truck is unveiled.

Prepare for a shock............

peter78 · September 2002

It is probably wise to wait. The 2002's are still coming in. And everyone's attention will be on tomorrow.

"Prepare for a shock", well we have already had quite a few leaks. My guess is we will learn more in the next few weeks mainly from outside sources. Still there is still quite a bit of information we still don't know. Everyone have a safe and hopefully healthy day tomorrow.

stever · September 2002

The '03 MDX embargo was supposed to be lifted a little while ago too. Maybe the PR people are waiting till later in the month after the 9.11 anniversary news stories?

Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards

world_traveler · September 2002

Sorry I didn't mean to tease.

When I wrote my previous post I was just back from the dealer. They had attended an information session about the 2003.

I've been following the leaks and spy shots for a while now. The vehicule will look in the pictures, that won't be a surprise.

What is a surprise is the equipment list. If you are into gadgets then it will be heaven for you. This is odd for Toyota... Usually they are pretty sober, the cars are good value but they are generally equiped with a very limited set of options and over the years this has helped Toyota in the reliability area.

They told me also that they are now targeting another crowd with the Runner. Despite great off-road abilities due to special suspension etc they are going after the Cherokee and BMW X5 market.

Even the salesmen were a bit confused. They were almost sorry....

So I guess that for a while we will see angry 4Runner followers looking for a new nest and we will see a new crowd appear to take over this great franchise from Toyota......

kjack100 · September 2002

I am not seeing the ecstatic jumping up and down about the new design. The V-8 power is going to be great, but the design is, to my eyes, not as timeless as the third generation. This chrome to cladding and brushed aluminum switch is disturbing and appears to follow some sort of manufacturer pact mentality. Do the tick marks on the wheel wells and squared off cladding seem goofy?

The third row seating is a real sticking point with me. I am not asking for the fixed rear suspension to be replaced with IRS, just something similar to the GX470 and LandCruiser, ie, removable. Why that would interfere with their off-road crowd marketing is beyond me. Hopefully, I'll be eating these words in a month. God bless the heroes of 9/11.

sbell4 · September 2002

I saw and was able to climb around in it a couple of days ago. It looks so much better in person then in the spy pictures! Base price was announced but I better not post with $2800 of added standard equipment. I will say that you will be more then happy with the price. A SR5 4x4 V6 with be less than 30k including destination charges. XREAS sport suspension, 4.0 V6 engine (available in December), available 5 speed trans., torsion center differential, Hill start assist control on 4x4 and Downhill assisit control will be standard on the new 4Runner.

My favorite vehicle was the Tundra double cab but the new Sienna is a close second (one feature is the sliding door windows are power up and down). The all new Prius is unlike anything you could imagine and the new Solara looks like the Lexus.

mhenderson1 · September 2002

Although the SR5 is posted as being less than $30K, after dealer mark-up, it will be listed well above $35K. I'm sure Toyota will follow Acura's way of marketing.

Toyota 4Runner

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