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Would again appreciate that PDF file from anyone who tried to send it after the first post.
A million thanks again.
I did show her a few of the best pics, and she actually studied them for more than a few seconds, which is saying a lot! She really likes the new design and feels it's as sharp-looking as the Envoy, which she has liked since they first came out (she likes my dad's loaded SLT). She set her SUV design standard by the Envoy, which I was originally excited about as a replacement for my Jimmy, until I realized they TOTALLY ignored the off-road crowd. Oh sure, there's an off-road package, with skid plates and BFG Rugged Trail tires, but no tow hooks and lower rockers and front bumper, as well as only 8.3" of ground clearance. Pee–yew!
Anyway, she knows I've been waiting for the new 'Runner, and told her it had better be a design that excites me, without being hopped-up on sugar ;o), as much as the current design, and the Envoy's design. Well, thank goodness Toyota delivered, for me at least. Unfortunately, this is a controversial design for loyalists, but I think it's an improvement, and I love the 3rd gen's styling.
"Pics to go bye bye
I just received an email from Toyota.
They want the pics taken down.
Resistance is futile, I must comply, or be assimilated.
Corey,
It came to our attention today that you have copyrighted images posted on
your Web site. I'm not certain from where you obtained the 2003 4Runner
images, but you should be aware that the images are copyrighted. You need
permission from Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., Inc. to use them, and we would
not be able to grant you permission as the images are embargoed.
Please remove the images from your site immediately.
Thank you for your prompt attention to this matter"
Anyone have any insight?
I just saw the 2003 4Runner on Motorweek (Montreal area). It was nice to see the Runner in motion.
I did not listen all that much since I was concentrated on the images but I heard the guy talk about a smooth ride, some body roll, 17/20 mileage for the 4X4.
It looked nice in motion. Still the look is weird a bit but I think it will be a design that people will get used to except maybe die-hard off-roaders.
I think that 3rd gen will be the classic model of the 4Runner, you know the model that sticks through the years and that people can easily identify.
So watch at your local PBS listing. MW IS showing the 4Runner (no embargo)
Bob
• The vehicles are all clearly part of the same family, but we already knew that. This fact was even mentioned in the PDF.
• The 4Runner shares very little in terms of exterior body parts with the other two.
• Even the interior of the 4Runner and the GX 470 are different, especially the door interior door panels, where the door armrests are toally different. BTW, I much prefer the GX 470 door armrests. The power window switches are mounted *on* the armrests, not *below* them, like that found on the 4Runner.
• Unlike the full-size Land Cruiser and LX 470, the 4Runner and GX 470 are NOT badge-engineered clones, except under the skin.
• Unlike the 4Runner, the GX 470 and LC Prado DO share most of the exterior body parts.
• Only the front-end styling and taillights are different on the GX 470 from that found on the LC Prado. The rest of the exterior of these two are identical.
• Under the skin, it's a different story, at least in terms of engines. Unlike the the GX 470, the LC Prado will be marketed more as a "work" vehicle, rather than a "luxury" vehicle, as those markets in which it is sold, demands. The engine choices and vehicle content reflect those needs.
This raises an interesting point:
• Will the next-generation Land Cruiser and LX 470 also depart somewhat in terms of styling, as the new 4Runner and GX 470 have? I bet they do—and I bet they get bigger engines, so the LX 470 will probably become a LX 5XX.
Bob
They have arrived on the lot....
I can only see the rear & side views of the vehicle from the street.
A lot of plastic molding and a huge rear wheel gap. Doesn't look appealing in my opinion.
Saw a black one w/ painted molding....looked much nicer. But the wheel gap looks over done..
Shouldn't be long before they arrive at the dealer
and everyone can see for themselves...
Thanks again, JD
I too have read that the V10 diesel is going to be a monster engine. The question is as to whether it will be a *clean* diesel? (Hmmm... clean diesel? Isn't that an oxymoron?)
Bob
Still want to see pdf. Can anyone help?
http://www.gocrvclub.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=362
Let the sunshine in and have a great day.
http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/reviews/rt2203.shtml
Klc5610:
I'm in the same position. I've been wiating for the new 4Runner for a long time but so far I'm disappointed. I'm considering either a Honda Pilot or a Pathfinder LE. But I have difficulty going ahead and buying one of these trucks before seing the 4Runner in person. I wonder what could happen for me to like this truck more in person than on pictures.
The only way I like it so far is black on black, hides somewhat some of the messy details
World
If you're so well read on this vehicle, you wouldn't have made that statement.
<< Yeah, great that it has all those electronic gizmos. However, in off-roading, there is nothing that beats the toughness of solid axle and it's tremendous wheel articulation! There is no independent suspension in the world that can match a solid axle articulation in uneven terrain. >>
Tell that to Hummer H1 owners. Or, to Montero owners. Or to new Range Rover owners. All these vehicles are excellent off road. Should we then assume that because the 4Runner (or Land Cruiser) doesn't have a solid front axle, that it's no good off road? Should we also assume that all off roaders need the capability of running the Rubicon, with their SUVs, to be considered off-road capable? Every SUV is a compromise of some sort. If you need the articulation of a solid axle vehicle, it will suffer in other areas. The trick is to get the best combination of off road ability, on road ability, comfort, etc., in one vehicle. The Touareg, from what I've read to date, seems pretty spot on. My only complaint is the projected price.
<< The new Range Rover can barely match it with it's cross-linking shocks. I bet you that it's control arms on the Touareg will be wimpy little sticks. My opinion >>
Yep, it is just your opinion...
Every article I've read on the Touareg—and I've read a bunch, has stated that it is not an off-road pretender, and that it has the right stuff. So why don't you wait until it hits the market, and has been tested, before trashing it with old, worn out, stereotype assumptions.
Bob
* * *
Your specific post has violated our Member Conduct regarding “Masked” Profanity. "You may not submit Postings that are indecent, profane (including masked profanity), obscene,..."
Your post:
#2682 of 2684 Watch-out! by mjohnr99 Sep 20, 2002 (07:07 pm)
Jimxo: Your use of [that acronym] is "implied profanity" and could be offensive to others here - like me, the gods will delete you. FYI. [Personally, doesn't bother me amigo.]
Tbcreative: check DirectTV in your area. For anyone in DC area, Channel 968 DirectTV at
NOON tomorrow has MotorWeek airing and specifically lists the 4Runner on the heading!!!
kullenberg: thanks for the support, I'll wait until the 15th next month, but I agree that this
time I may have to risk it and give up some of that Toyota reliability. Darn I say!
* * *
Sorry, tb, but as the others indicated, the 4Runner was reviewed today on channel 968 DirecTV - that's the DC area. If you don't have DirectTV, then maybe some computer whiz who recorded it on TIVO around here (or in the Bay area) can send it electronically or post it somehow. I have a copy I made on old-fashioned VCR tape if anyone who's going crazy over this wants to borrow it in the Arlington, VA area. Just send me an E-mail. It's only about 5-10 minutes in length.
Basically, interior was awesome - but the rear cargo area definitely looks smaller. Can't believe they cut back on the room back there for the dogs! Exterior was the blue spy-shot Limited we all saw. It's not bad at all (cause no plastic of course) but one thing I noticed: driving down the road from the side view the back two-thirds looks classic 4Runner (minus the spoiler), but the windshield to headlight front region looks like they jammed the front end of a car/wagon on or something. In action, the increased slope of the hood combined with the new headlights really makes it look like the car-like "SUVs" you see out there. I freeze-framed it and held it up against that great sideshot in the 2000 4Runner brochure - yep, with the new lower stance, that front third from the side is dramatically different . . . brought to mind those wedge-style robots that you see on BattleBots (you have to exaggerate it of course). I prefer the 3rd Gen which stayed flatter. But the inside is a 100% improvement (of course this was the Limited). C-ya.
Thumbs down for Motorweek on this one.
deloid
I'm, unfortunately, on a slow dial-up modem, but I was able to download the PDF, but it took a while to do so. It's 33 pages, and about 3.8 MB. I didn't download the Powerpoint, nor any of the large images. It would have taken me forever.
I did try to send the PDF to someone here, but it took me 28 minutes to send—only to find out that the recipient's mailbox (klc5610@hotmail.com) wouldn't accept it! Was the mailbox full? I don't know...
I would like to accommodate those by sending the PDF, but it ties up my computer so I can't do anything while I'm sending. If someone really wants it, I will try to send it again, but please make sure your mailbox can handle it.
Did anyone beside myself download the PDF—and has a faster Internet hookup, to send files?
BTW, the PDF had some images (mostly details and cut-aways), but was mostly technical stuff. Still, it was very interesting.
Bob
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Is it a selective embargo ???
Or has Toyota selectively decided to pick on 4Runner enthusiasts in an effort to turn us away for good after providing us with a silly upgrade to what was a great 4Runner.
I hope Toyota reads this one: I'm extremely disappointed of both the new 4Runner and toyota's tactic and marketing.I thought they had class....
The last directive we got from management was about 5 or 6 weeks ago after Toyota called and expressed displeasure about the links being displayed here.
I hope to get clarification on the matter Monday.
tidester
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SUVs; Aftermarket & Accessories
And Toyota should know that we will be the same people (been reading this board since late 1999 . . .) on this board characterizing Toyota and the 4Runner long after the embargo is over, when the masses rush to Edmunds to see what the fuss over 4Runner is and whether it is worth that high price - are they stupid enough to target the few that are here now? Do they really think that restraining us until they can get their slick ad campaign out (complete with body-hiding water fall images) is going to prevent honest discussion of a major plasticidis SCREW-UP on the SR5s and Sports. Duh!
I had some price issues with the H2 yesterday, so I too am having to consider what had always been my second choice in a Pathfinder. I can't believe that the only solution if I want the increased HP I've waited 3 years for is to come up with $39,000 for the Limited . . . maybe I will find the 3rd Gen Sport with TRD supercharger on sale for ~ $30K; now that would be great! [I'll let you know what I find in the next couple weeks . . .]
I guess if people want to share they can just post a link to the "home" page of the web site and let people find the pic's themselves. Better yet just include the web site URL in there post.
You cant stop the internet. Yeah baby!
If Edmunds gives in, these images, as well as any future "spy" images from other brands, will show up on the Internet, somewhere. There's no way to stop it. If Edmunds sets a policy of no longer allowing these types of images, what will happen is that people will visit these other sites, and will no longer visit Edmunds. Don't do it Edmunds...
Bob
2) Even so, regardless of how those images were obtained, legally or not, once they become public, it becomes impossible to control the distribution. Now you're getting into areas of free speech, which then becomes a constitutional issue.
I'm not a lawyer, so those with legal minds might shoot my theories down. Even so, I think it's a slippery slope Edmunds is on. They (Toyota) could win the battle, but Edmunds could lose the war...
Bob
There really isn't too much content yet but there are promises of more information to follow. I did find out a few interesting tid-bits.
1. The 4WD system on the V8 will have a torsen center differential with a 40/60 front to rear bias in normal conditions. When slip is detected, that can change to as much as 78% (I think) rear and 60% front.
2. The V8 will be a full time system and the V6 will be selectable, presumably the same A-Trac system we currently have.
3. Head room, leg room, hip and shoulder room are all increased which probably explains the reduced cargo room.
4. The back seat will fold completely flush without removing the headrests. When this is done, you will have 70" of length between the back to the front seats.
5. There will be "cargo area backup mirrors" which seem to be mirrors mounted in the rear pillars to allow you to see around corners when backing out of a parking space. I like this one.
BTW, after viewing the site, they give a quiz. Scores over 80% qualify for "fabulous prizes" which normally means a t-shirt. I scored 100%--thank you very much.
This was not the case with the introduction of the Sienna. The Previa had ended production many months before the Sienna's arrival and due to this, we had a ton of advance material on the Sienna. The same held true for the Tundra. The same was not true for the 2002 Camry, nor the 2003 Corolla. That is because those models competed directly with cars on our lots.
The new VW does not compete with anything VW currently sells. This is normal industry practice. It is an effort to protect the dealers from loosing business. Remember, Toyota does not sell cars to consumers. They sell everything they build to its dealers.
I know this doesn't make it any easier for those who read the TH, but it does explain their behavior. The Internet is still not the primary place consumers look for information. It is still the dealer's inventory.
There are still a bunch of '02s around, so I can see why Toyota does not want to make big splashy display of how much more power and amenities the '03 has, that will be available in 3 weeks.
I just saw the Motorweek piece and was disappointed. It was a two-minute fluff piece. It only featured the Limited V-8, which is probably all that will be available in CA for the next few months anyway, so all you people looking to buy the '03 immediately ought to begin to cool your heels! :-)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Cheers
Pat
>obtained, legally or not, once they become
>public, it becomes impossible to control the
>distribution. Now you're getting into areas of
>free speech, which then becomes a constitutional
>issue
That's just it, they aren't public. They are the copyrighted material of Toyota. Free speech doesn't permit you to re-distribute copyrighted material. Every company has the right to protect its property.
>The greater issue is what sort of Company is
>Toyota becoming.
A very good one, making excellent, safe, quality vehicles. They have grown to be #4 in the US and #3 worldwide. Their market share continues to grow because they are good at what they do. They have raised the quality bar for all manufacturers by challenging them to build better and safer vehicles.
>In my view, all Toyota has going for it,
>right now, is build quality, and that
>seems to be slipping
Toyota is the leader of the J.D. Power awards for quality. No other company has taken as many awards. Toyota is the benchmark for quality in the auto industry.
Toyota is not a bully in this. Individuals that were supposed to be trustworthy broke an agreement with Toyota, and published copyrighted materials without permission. Toyota is just asking those people to stop. I don't see where there is any bullying involved. All they want is for these people to stop breaking the agreement. Why is that a problem? Why does that make them the bad guy?