What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

gagrice · February 2013

It is a beauty. Hope it is all you hoped for. Is it a 2012 or 13?

ruking1 · February 2013

We of course are looking forward to your take on the new diesel ! All the best on your new Bluetec.

fintail · February 2013

It's a 13. I wouldn't have cried about a 12, seeing as there's a discontinued color I want, but I don't think any are left.

It's really more than I could hope for - some of these deals make the cars obtainable to a non-tycoon such as myself. Financing it is sometimes crazy now, unless you really want to keep it for the long haul.

I already like the faint diesel purr of the car, especially evident at low speeds.

fintail · February 2013

I hope break-in is only about 1000 miles or so - I want to see what she will do for mpg. The 400lb ft of torque is already evident - no problems merging or lunging off the line.

crkyolfrt · February 2013

Hey, now that is a cool post to see! Enjoy!

You've been hinting it (some form of diesel) was going to happen for awhile..way to do it in style. I've driven that motor in the GL recently. It will feel like a rocket in the much lighter E350.

ruking1 · February 2013

I might be wrong on all accounts, but it will be more like 5,000 miles before the first mpg stabilization starts to happen. The first 500 miles are "critical" for both the diesel and NON diesel related items. While I have always followed a moderately to slightly more aggressive break in regiment, the fact is that longer term effects might be a non issue. This would especially be true if the plan is to surrender the car when the lease is up. An example might be 5 years, 12k max per year or 60,000 miles with mileage penalties over that.

Having said that, the first 500 miles (65 mpg and under) are important for the brake pads, rotors, suspension and other sub systems to break in slowly. The other side is to break in the engine with slightly to moderately aggressive rpm (75% of red line with occasional runs TO redline). One key being not going a steady rpm for too long (too long being 10 to 15 mins). Some other pieces of information might be too arcane for a leased vehicle.

gagrice · February 2013

Looks like Audi wants in on the diesel trend. Fin, is this what you rented in Germany? Only available as a diesel?

HERNDON, Virginia  The 2014 Audi A8 L TDI starts at $83,395, including an $895 destination charge, reflecting a $4,000 premium over the base 2013 Audi A8 L 3.0 TFSI.
The 2014 Audi A8 L TDI arrives in U.S. showrooms in the spring.

Available only in the long-wheelbase version, Audi estimates that the A8 L TDI will deliver 24 mpg in city driving and 36 mpg on the highway.

Engine options on the A8 L TDI are limited to a 3.0-liter turbodiesel V6 engine rated at 240 horsepower. It sprints from zero to 60 mph in 6.4 seconds.

http://www.edmunds.com/car-news/2014-audi-a8-l-tdi-starts-at-83395.html

fintail · February 2013

I'll go easy on it for the first month, for sure. Even though I might not have it more than a couple years, I want the car to be treated properly. After a few thousand miles, hopefully I'll get some remarkable mileage on road trips. Looking forward to summer.

fintail · February 2013

I had a SWB A8 3.0 TDi for a rental, yes. I think I averaged around 33mpg in it, which included 120 mph+ driving. The 8 speed transmission is really something.

stever · February 2013

My gasser mpg "stabilized" around 4 to 5,000 miles but didn't really hit its stride until 10k. Then you read about other folks who get better than EPA mpg from the first tank.

I think those owners must follow the biker's theory and drive their new cars like Andretti from the get go. Seems like most manufacturers don't even talk about break in any more, and if they do, it's about the brakes, not the engine.

Fin, stomp that puppy - it's a lease after all. :shades:

alltorque · February 2013

When I bought my new Skoda Fabia vRS, (1.9 TDi Pd / 130bhp), the dealer's advice on running-in, (break-in), was simply........."Drive it like ya stole it".

So I did and it never used a drop of oil between services in the 4 years I owned it but the mpg improved noticeably from 10k miles onward.

stever · February 2013

Did the transmission dump after two years?

I suppose one could read the manual and trust what the experts who designed and engineered the car say.

Nah, that's no fun.

ruking1 · February 2013

I think from the diesels' side this is both the REAL GOOD news and approaches the arcane.

The upshot on the gassers are full break in normally happens in 500 to 1,000 miles. On a technical side, full compression occurs. This is SO normal and to the consumer opaque; as to be almost ignored to unknown to... ubiquitous.

The upshot on the diesels are full break in normally happens between 30,000 to 60,000 miles. So in Fintail's case, this is the "assumption" for an earlier point of view. The issue here and also in the gassers there are absolutely NO protocols to measure its progression or lack there of. I am not sure how to put it in context or scale, but it does fall into the category of TMI, in most to all cases. So for example in the 2003 VW Jetta TDI broken in specification for full compression is app 550 PSI. Obviously before break in it is less than that. To almost all gasser types and the majority of TDI drivers, who the H--- cares?

There are of course downstream consequences.

So for example I agree totally with Alltorque's take about not using a DROP of oil in a so called "correctly" broken in TDI. However the reality is more like 1/4 to 1/2 qt in a 30,000 miles OCI. Anyone who is knowledgeable about gasser OCIS knows that is literally NO consumption for the TDI.

stever · February 2013

The "first twenty hit" internet consensus is that 10,000k is the norm. Hm, kind of like my gasser experience. But my mpg keeps improving even at 182k, after fading a bit after getting new plugs at 124k (we're talking maybe a few tenths better mpg over the last 100k). My 21 combined mpg sweet spot did happen at 60k.

I don't know what "full break-in" is, but once you get beyond the owner's manual, it's all anecdotal. The way Seattle drivers are, Fin's more likely to have an inconsiderate texting Lexus driver total the front end than hit 300k. :shades:

fintail · February 2013

After the first thousand or so miles, I will probably wring it out a little more. I'd feel wrong laying into a brand new car. I know I'll be going on a few hundred mile trip in May, that might be its first mileage cruise.

winter2 · February 2013

If the engine is made by V.M. Motori and it is planted in a Chrysler product, no way in hell would I buy one.

If it is a Daimler diesel then I would buy one without hesitation.

If it comes from VW, a definite maybe.

I hear FIAT diesels are pretty good, but I would treat them skeptically until I saw more data.

Most Japanese diesels are pretty decent so I would consider one of them.

gagrice · February 2013

You had less than good results with a Jeep Liberty diesel if memory serves. That engine was from VM Motori and was not bad until Chrysler kludged it to pass EPA emissions. The 2014 JGC V6 is going to use Urea injection same as the German diesels sold here. We had nothing but trouble with our Ford diesels that were modified to pass emissions. Starting with the PUs we bought in 2003 they were in the shop more than on the road. Horrible diesel engines. I understand they dumped Navistar in about 2010. So maybe they figured out how to build a decent diesel engine on their own. I would prefer a German diesel engine. I plan to give the Jeep GC a good looking over. That is if they don't wait to long to bring them to America.

ruking1 · February 2013

Cars.com has interesting pieces of data for 2013 VW TDI's (all models) @ 27%.

(18,643/68,873 units, inventory)

Touaregs are @ 42.5% TDI's.

(635/1,491)

Percentage demand for the VW JSW remains high @ 81+%.

Interesting IS the American Passat @ 32.4% TDI's

( billed as the AMERICAN Passat and is made IN the USA 6,151/ 18,965)

My 2003 Jetta TDI really looks like the "good ole hysterical days" @ 4% of total VW US sales or 9,000 units.

ateixeira · February 2013

Per this article:

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/02/20/2014-mercedes-benz-e-class-first-drive-review- /

It can park itself perpendicularly. Whoopee!

crkyolfrt · February 2013

I don't find any of those stats surprising..save maybe the Touareg's 42.5%.
Considering the alternative powerplant is a (premium no less) gas guzzling, mediocorely power (compared to the diesel) to me i'm surprised the TDI didn't capture more like 65% at least.

Even the Passat's 32.4%...again, given its hwy fuel ratings are even higher than the smaller/lighter Golf and Jetta in stick form, why not 55% or more? Especially since one of the engine alternatives is a (perceived...but I don't agree) inferior 5 cyl gas. And you might say, well autos still dominate in NA, and you'd be correct, but interestingly enough, in my area (cottage country north of Tor ON) of the Passat owners I've talked to at a gas stn or parked next to me in a mall, the majority have all been sticks.
Good for them I say...maybe there is hope for us NA's afterall, not only for sticks but greater diesel acceptance too. Just think..never mind the word acceptance, hell..let's shoot for insistence..

fintail · February 2013

Yep, it's coming - dealer told me about it. That's the engine I want - in a C-class. It's a big seller in Europe.

The bumper on that pictured car is a bit much for my tastes. I am also somewhat traditional, would rather have a normal grille on a sedan.

xwesx · February 2013

The list of "Intelligent Drive" assistance systems (or over-assistance, depending on who you ask)

Here, here! I think the day is coming when there should be a licensing restriction placed on those who use nanny devices, in order to protect the rest of us from them driving real cars.

ateixeira · February 2013

I think what may seem a little shocking now will blend in better as it ages, especially against a wilder backdrop of competitors.

ruking1 · February 2013

Yes, I think that these (in current inventory) are the Corporate and other wise planner's BEST guesses for the 2013 MY's. Some of the stats move around a bit in that there are always a percentage of factory orders, etc ,etc.. I am sure each car is measured in a fairly detailed way, whether or not each configuration hits its goals or targets. Now some factory orders are semi custom. However some just do a factory order just because of... whatever reasons. Some just cherry pick what is on a factory order to get whatever variables or options they are interested in. I am sure on the analysis side it is no less complicated than the sales of airline seating or hotel room sales.

On the Touareg, I was offered from mild to wild, in terms of getting close to: to EXACTLY what I would care to want, that was available.

fintail · February 2013

First stop-and-go 15mph evening slog in the new car today. 24mpg. The old car averaged around 14mpg.

ruking1 · February 2013

71% better (mpg) is quite.... BETTER !?

ruking1 · February 2013

I am thinking it should be expressed in fuel savings also. So that is app 42% in fuel SAVINGS.

fintail · February 2013

Pretty amazing, really. Could have probably even been better if the negligent dopes who manage traffic controls here didn't make it so only 4 cars could get through the green light nearest where I live.

As the old car also took premium, I suspect the fuel cost savings is close to the decreased consumption.

ruking1 · February 2013

Yes it truly is. I think most folks have to experience it to get that WOW ??? reaction. Most folks really "UNDERSTAND" what I continue to say (yes, it varies; but no, it does not changed much) and what you are experiencing. They just might not believe it !!!

As you probably have noted, I take more the longer term and tank full to tank full approach. So for example in your case, I would be looking for (whatever) average x 50,000 miles (est lease period) mileage). In my case, I have stated per 100,000 miles. It really does not matter, anyone can tailor it for their use as a tool. So for example, if one does 10,000 miles, 15,000 miles, 20,000 miles per year, so be it.

fintail · February 2013

I was surprised to break 20 in stop and go hell. I'm waiting for that first 100+ mile road trip after the car has a couple thousand miles on it. That should be a good eye opener. I am thinking of a ~800 mile trip around the time the car should have 4-5K on it. That should be a good one too.

I am only in a 20K mile lease, and as I live close to work, I doubt I will exceed it. But with MB bringing a 4cyl diesel to the US, that might be the replacement, assuming that finances remain stable.

ruking1 · February 2013

Given what I know about how you treat cars, I would not mind being a buyer of YOUR car after you come off lease. :shades:

ateixeira · February 2013

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/02/21/volkswagen-debuts-mkvii-based-diesel-golf-gtd- /

I think that would hit a sweet spot, in that it could stand up to hot hatches, but still manage to be economical.

xwesx · February 2013

That's a darn small car to be breaking the 3,000# threshold!

ateixeira · February 2013

True...but diesel blocks are beefy so not a big surprise.

ateixeira · February 2013

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/02/21/volkswagens-261-mpg-hand-built-xl1-headed-for- -geneva/

Cool, but how much?

gagrice · February 2013

Could have probably even been better if the negligent dopes who manage traffic controls

Talk to your city council. If Los Angeles can do it Seattle should be able to.

Every L.A. Traffic Signal Now Synced

The last of the city's nearly 4,400 traffic signals were synchronized yesterday, marking completion of a project designed to lessen the amount of time that drivers spend in gridlock.

The Automated Traffic Surveillance & Control system, a $410 million effort to coordinate traffic signals across the city under a centralized system, could reduce the average amount of time drivers spend in traffic by one day per year, according to city transportation officials.

http://www.kcet.org/news/stories/every-la-traffic-signaled-now-synced-say-city-o- fficials.html

fintail · February 2013

I might want it, too. I suspect the resale will be higher than I'd want to pay, though. To keep sales volumes high, leasing is more attractive than in the past - I never would have done this at previous rates.

But if I am lucky, it might put me in an even more efficient yet nearly as powerful car in the future.

fintail · February 2013

Oh, I am sure they can - but you know how it can be dealing with public sector bureaucracy. I'll admit my fair city is trying now maybe more than in the past, but some of how they "manage" things is bizarre. But when you can't get fired, and get a nice pay for a few decades and a fat pension when retiring before the rest of the world...there's no incentive.

If the Feds had any honesty about saving fuel, they would require cities to optimize their controls, or lose funding if they refuse.

ateixeira · February 2013

more efficient yet nearly as powerful car in the future

C250 diesel?

How long is your lease term?

gagrice · February 2013

But when you can't get fired, and get a nice pay for a few decades and a fat pension when retiring before the rest of the world...there's no incentive.

Isn't that what you were defending the lazy French for doing. Incentive is dead in both the Government and corporate world. That is the liberal plan.

Just because a little country like Germany with OUR help is able to reach a better balance does not make it a better system. If we pulled out of Germany and put proper tariffs on their vehicles, they would be in dire straits. Of course the same goes for any other large trading partners. China, Korea and Japan come to mind. If we gauged our enemies by our trade deficit with that country, Germany would be our 3rd worst enemy behind Japan and China.

tifighter · February 2013

When does the GLK bluetec hit dealers?

ateixeira · February 2013

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/02/21/2014-mazda6-skyactiv-d-wagon/

Not for US consumption, naturally.

ateixeira · February 2013

This year, right?

xwesx · February 2013

Oh, goodness. That just looks so nice. The Mazda6 doesn't exist to me unless it comes just like this.

fintail · February 2013

24 months. C250 - that's what I'd like. C250 4Matic diesel would be even crazier. E250 is coming, so no legit reason why we can't finally get the C.

The E is nice, but I am already realizing it might be larger than what I need - feels a lot bigger than the W210.

fintail · February 2013

I wasn't defending anything French. I was laughing that a blowhard credibility-free execucoward was lambasting something that is apparently more profitable than his own racing towards the bottom enterprise.

We could provide better domestic trade and industrial, not to mention social standards if we stopped being on 90 fronts at once, all so a select few industries can reap windfalls - and also gave up the fantasy that eventually everything will work its way down.

Germany isn't begging us to remain there - the inflated ego of our authoritarian sector keeps us there. We aren't there out of altruism, it's special interest profit and ego. We need to provide trade corrections (tariffs and more) on those who do not play by first world standards. If anything, first world Europe defines those standards. Imagine if we spent (relatively, of course) what they spend on foreign aid to troublemakers/competitors and defense, not to mention vice law enforcement.

fintail · February 2013

But we'll get a lame crossover, right? So it all evens out. :shades:

ateixeira · February 2013

I'm sure we'll see a GLK 250 and a CX5 diesel.

tifighter · February 2013

Sounds like they were saying February release last fall, but I've heard nothing about it since.

fintail · February 2013

The Goodyear issue is a specific factory, not a company.

There's a difference between jealousy and intolerance of arrogance and hypocrisy, and cynicism about lies regarding failed trickle down theory. I suspect I see the reality of the private sector working world more than those not involved today.

You're more likely to be struck by lightning on the same day of the same month every year for 25 years than to become a Zuckerberg (who wasn't exactly born working class to begin with). If it was so simple, why aren't the still-dependent aging children of silent generation oldsters who preach independence and self reliance for others becoming Zuckerbergs right and left?

What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

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