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What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?
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Since some would say the (2013) VW Touareg TDI would be ONE of the Jeep's competitors, Cars.com shows 621 units inventory: prices listed 45.5k to 61.2k.
I am on the list to test drive the JGC diesel when it first shows up here. I don't expect it till the end of this month or into April. Pricing has been announced sort of. Nothing on the Jeep website yet.
As for Touareg TDI, only 2 LUX within 100 miles of me. I am not driving 100 miles to Palm Springs to test drive one. Our local dealer moved and is under new ownership. I stopped in and they did not have any TDIs. Of course they gave me the line that they are all sold before they get here. Which may or may not be true. My one complaint is the rear seat is not as comfy as the Mercedes or have as much leg room. I would put the Touareg up against the other 3 for off road ability. On the basis of their records and off road racing wins. I did notice that BMW finally won the Dakar rally this year. In a Mini with their 6 cylinder diesel engine. Not sure how they got it into a Mini.
http://www.minimotorsport.com/en/dakar/car
"The engine will be introduced toward the end of the model's lifecycle to boost sales before they bring in the redesigned model," according to an industry source who asked not to be identified."
2016 Jeep Wrangler To Get Diesel Engine
Is it going to be a MB or VM engine?
Either way, do they both have an aluminum block or cast iron?
Normal WB Jeeps, could be a little front heavy if they are cast iron.
I asked my friend when I drove his ML a couple months ago..he didn't know..he's not overly mechanically inclined. We were about to pop the hood, and something came up and I never did get to have a peek..
Either way, do they both have an aluminum block or cast iron?
Here is the specs on the JGC engine we are all waiting to try. At least I am.
Inside The Banks 630T V-6 Diesel
DISPLACEMENT: 3.0L (182 ci)
CONFIGURATION: 60-degree, even-fire V-6
ENGINE WEIGHT: 498 pounds
BORE AND STROKE: 83 mm x 92 mm (3.26 in. x 3.62 in.)
COMPRESSION RATIO: 16.5:1
ENGINE BLOCK: Compacted-graphite iron (CGI) casting that weighs 159 pounds, featuring four 14mm head bolts per cylinder
BEDPLATE: A one-piece, 35-pound assembly retains the crankshaft and ties the bottom of the block together with six 12mm bolts per main bearing
CRANKSHAFT: Forged 4140 steel with 74mm (2.91 in.) main bearing journals and 67.5mm (2.66 in.) connecting rod journals, externally balanced
CYLINDER HEAD: Aluminum castings with four valves per cylinder
VALVETRAIN: Dual overhead camshafts (DOHC) with roller finger followers and hydraulic lash adjustment
VALVE SIZE: 28.5mm (1.12 in.) intake, 25.4mm (1.00 in.) exhaust
BASE POWER RATING: 221 to 268 hp at 4,000 rpm
BASE TORQUE OUTPUT: 369 to 421 lb-ft at 2,000 rpm
MAXIMUM ENGINE SPEED: 4,800 rpm
FUEL SYSTEM: Bosch common-rail injection with a CP4.2 pump and CRIN 3.4 solenoid injectors capable of running up to 29,000 psi (2,000 bar) and seven injection events
TURBOCHARGER: Electronically controlled variable geometry with water-cooled ball-bearing cartridge in high-power applications
http://www.dieselpowermag.com/tech/1208dp_banks_vm_motori_630t_v6_diesel_engine/- -
Back when I had my '74 CJ-5, it was always fun to lock the hubs and put it in first gear and see if it would stall.
Kind of like 4WD/AWD, I wonder if it really boils down to the tires at some point.
Oh, we've been talking about the proposed diesel fuel price in France over in the Liberty CRD discussion and I just noticed this cash for clunkers proposal tonight:
France mulls diesel car scrappage bonus (Reuters).
Come to think of it, ruking, does the Touareg use a cast iron block?
VM Motori started supplying Chrysler in 1992, with the Chrysler Voyager’s diesel option. Today, VM Motori powers several European Chrysler and Jeep cars, as well as (as of Februrary 2011) the Chevrolet Captiva, London Taxi, Megastar van, and Maxus van. Today, two VM engines are used by Chrysler: the 2.8 (Wrangler, Voyager, and Cherokee) and 3.0 (Grand Cherokee, 300C/Thema.) The Maserati Kubang is reportedly to use a highly modified version of the 3.0 liter V6 as well.
The A 630 direct-injection V6 diesel has Fiat’s Multijet II technology, and delivers more horsepower and torque with greater efficiency, lower emissions, and, one analyst wrote, higher grade internal materials. Built by VM Motori and developed with Fiat Powertrain, it hits a peak 177 kW (241 hp DIN) at 4,000 rpm and 550 N•m (406 lb-ft) at 1,800-2,800 rpm. This engine was reportedly developed for General Motors, as was a 2.9 liter version that was dropped while still unfinished (meant for EuroCadillacs). Neither was used by GM.
Fuel economy for the new 3.0-liter turbo diesel engine (as used in the Grand Cherokee) is 8.3 L/100km on the combined cycle, an improvement of 17% over the prior diesel engine. CO2 emissions (combined cycle) are also reduced by 17 percent, now at 218 g/km; this is partly a result of new-generation, 2000 bar injectors with MultiJet II technology (Chrysler Europe specified 1800 bar pressure, but this is likely on the lower power version).
The diesel engine uses a compacted graphite iron, 60-degree block with aluminum cylinder heads and a two-piece structural aluminum oil pan. Bore is 83 mm (3.27 in) and stroke is 92 mm (3.62 in) for a total displacement of 2987 cm3 (182 in3). Bore spacing is 96 mm (3.78 in).
The engine is compact and lightweight, with overall dimensions of 695 mm (27.36 in) in length, 729 mm (28.7 in) in width and 697.5 mm (27.46 in) in height. Weight of the fully dressed new engine is 230 kg (507 lbs); on its own, it is 220 kg (485 lb). The engine was designed for either transverse or longitudinal mounting.
http://www.allpar.com/mopar/V6/VM-RA-diesel.html
Yes, cast iron is my understanding. I have read in passing 490 #'s.
Here is how it is technically described. ..."High-strength, compacted graphite iron cylinder block""...
link title
So the utility of " high strength compacted graphite cast iron" is a 5 to 10% weight savings.
However I would swag the Wrangler's 3.0 TDI V6 will have similar translations.
Zetscher's Last Chance Saloon?
Looking and thinking back to 11 years or so ago, the self destruct feature of the "interference design"(1.9 L/2.0 L) were MAJOR red flags. Another were the reports of both the shorter timing belt life (60,000 miles and tensioner: since extended/improved to 100,000 miles ( improved belts have extreme kevlar materials) and a bearing beef up on the tensioner) These and other issues almost killed the deal for me.
I didn't go into the VW Touareg 3.0L thinking: gee, VW TDI four bangers dodged the dangling by the horse hairs SWORDS. Therefore the V6 and much more power SHOULD !
There are some on this board that think I am just a shrill for VW. Secondarily for diesels in general. However the majority of cars I have had in my life were GASSERS, and NOT VW's. Indeed I still own majority GASSERS. I have taken @ least three to 200,000 miles plus +. Another logical question would be why would I even want to gamble with that for a so called unreliable diesel ('s in my case)?? Trust me if any three were any more a gamble with lesser odds, I positively absolutely would NOT have made the switch (to diesel).
But the (obvious or so I thought) truth is: I personally have THE MOST to lose, especially with 3 VW diesels. If anything in my case, VW is really defying the odds as all three have been flawless. If you listen to some, ALL could have just as easily been ... lemons. Do I think I got all three A products? Not on your or my life. I think statistically, I did get C products or middle most. I am fairly sure I did not get the D/F grade products or lemons.
Indeed my first preference for the 2nd TDI (09 Jetta TDI) was in fact the BMW 330 D. The BMW X5 35D was not even a consideration.
Why not?
23 Civic Type-R / 22 MDX Type-S / 21 Tesla Y LR / 03 Montero Ltd
Why not?
I am curious about that as well. I liked driving the X5D when they first came out. There is a good supply in my part of CA. I do prefer the inline 6 cylinder design, though it takes up more space. My only complaint was the X5 seats being much harder than the Mercedes or my Sequoia. Not sure how that would affect me after 600 miles on the highway.
The BMW 330 D was really for majority of commuting miles (78%) with up to 4 folks in the car. Anybody I knew that had BMW's 3 series and others and on line research indicated 30k high normal for 800+ per set tires. Both sets of H VW Jetta sedan tires are on track for 120,000 miles @ 490. Higher insurance costs and lower resale value %. Way more up front monies to own and no real dealing going on. Plus @ that time I had no real want/need to be able to pass chain controls points.
I think 500 and PLUS miles are not done by a lot of people. The longest I have done in the VW T has been 430 in a day. I have done as much as 965 to 1,100 in a day in other vehicles. But on those trips, I think it may have been much more fun to have more than one driver.
23 Civic Type-R / 22 MDX Type-S / 21 Tesla Y LR / 03 Montero Ltd
Someone must be buying diesel cars - local MB dealer had 2 other E Bluetecs when I bought my car, both are now sold.
I am seriously waiting on the 2014 Jeep GC diesel. Many innovations not offered on the competitors. NO RUN FLATS on JGC.
http://www.driveuconnect.com/system/2014/jeep/grand_cherokee/8-4an-ra4/
-hh
Is this MB engine also one of those graphite iron type blocks? Ya know, I don't actually recall if any of the diesels I have ever read about, use aluminum blocks..
There is a strengthening two-piece oil pan to help offer up rigidity on the VW block. I would imagine MB must also use reinforcing measures too..
But in an earlier post, I ran the difference between gasser Acua MDX @ 20 mpg RUG (VWT gasser competitor) vs VW T TDI @ 31 mpg.
Given current corner store prices (your basic variable ?)
$4.35 RUG/20 mpg = .2175 cents per mile driven
$4.33 D2/31 mpg = .13968 cents per mile driven
per mile driven costs RUG is .0778 cents more or +56%.
But i think your basic assumption is an outlier in terms of political and national policies and laws. Again not to get political, but when GB was POTUS, fuel was app $1.85 per gal. So indeed the current POTUS, BO has presided over his promise to raise the price of fuel.
Again not to bore folks with the results of a cheap calculator , 135% rise/5 years= 27% per year. Well, BO POTUS is a tad behind, as his outgoing energy secretary had targeted European priced fuel (aka close to $10. USD gal)! But I think it is fair to say they are app half way there. (Damned Republicians !!!!!!)
Not to be political, but I remember paying well over $4/gallon when GB was POTUS and a sneering unrepentant war criminal was at his side... there might have been a price collapse for a virtual instant, but there was also a severe run-up in the summer and fall of 08. Probably has more to do with dollar value issues/printing too much money, which is what happens when a bankster cabal has control of national finances no matter who is in office.
The real reason gas prices have gone up so much has nothing to do with Congress or who is residing at the White House.
http://wiki.fool.com/The_Role_of_Speculators_on_Oil_Futures
The problem is that giant financial institutions are hording and manipulating oil futures and driving up the price to the refineries. Which then have to pass the price along to the consumer. If you want to blame the right people, blame Wall Street and the big banks. Again.
http://money.howstuffworks.com/oil-speculation-raise-gas-price.htm
Here's a full length article about it, complete with videos and graphics.
In that case, DAMNED democrats !!
But still 39 vs 31 is still 25.8%.
That is precisely my sentiment concerning the ML250 Bluetec being sold in the EU. They claim about 37 MPG combined with US gallons. I could put up with 9 second sprints to 60 MPH with that kind of economy. The only time I need good acceleration is entering the Freeway. And that is usually 30-65 MPH time. That puts you in the diesel sweet spot for torque.
edit- he also told me that MB says you must use THEIR windshield washer fluid, as the aftermkt stuff would dull his headlight lexan shields. hahahahahaha rothflmy butt off... What a buyer beware world we have tho..gotta know what matters and what doesn't..
I doubt VERY much that MB has literally designed their headlight covers to dull under exposure to foreign washer fluid..
Of course the percentage changes as the mpg does so ymmv.
For app 13,000 miles, The VW T TDI (3.0 L V6) used app 4.5 gal. /13,000 miles= $.001937 cents per MILE driven. SO using 30 mpg that adds $ .05811 cents per D2 gal.
In terms of use, that is .04431 oz per mile (less than half an oz for the math types)
This is a stretch and swag: but since the 2.0 L is smaller than the 3.0 L by 33%, one could apply that reduction until it is disproved by those using both ad blue and a TDI 2.0 engine.
I read somewhere that to get the 2.0L TDI to pass CARB emissions in the Tiguan and heavier vehicles it would have to have Urea injection. I think Honda would have to use urea to get theirs to pass as well. It is a fine line in the smaller engines.