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Ford Fusion/Mercury Milan Hybrid

Karen_SKaren_S Member Posts: 5,092
in Ford
Post your speculations for the Fusion/Milan hybrid here.
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  • brucelincbrucelinc Member Posts: 815
    DEARBORN, Mich., Dec. 10, 2008 – Ward’s Automotive Group has named Ford’s redesigned Escape and Mariner hybrid engine to its 2009 10 Best Engines list.

    The 10 Best Engines list marks North America’s only awards program honoring powertrain excellence and is designed to reflect the diversity of powertrains that will play a role in reshaping America’s automotive landscape.

    Ford’s 2.5-liter, dual-overhead cam I-4 hybrid engine was the only hybrid engine selected as a winner. The judges praised not only its smooth gas-to-electric transition but its overall quality feel as well. This is the fifth year of production for the Escape Hybrid but the first year for the SUV to use Ford’s new 2.5-liter engine. Previous models used a 2.3-liter 4-cylinder engine.

    “Ford engineers have done a tremendous job,” said Drew Winter, editor in chief of Ward’s Autoworld magazine. “With hybrids in particular, software is such a big thing. The software that regulates how the power is transferred back and forth from gas to electric, when it’s done badly, can be jerky and unsettling, but when it’s done well, it really elevates driving pleasure. It’s the difference between a superior powertrain and a science experiment.”

    I assume this is the same engine as used in the 2010 Fusion/Milan hybrid. While I personally have no use for hybrids, Ford will likely get some very good press when the Fusion hybrid rolls out and that could create a ripple effect for other Ford products. Follow up the hybrid with the Ecoboost and the future brightens up in Dearborn.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    Actually, it is not exactly the same. It is further improved for use in the Fusion/Milan with, for example, the ability to go further on batteries alone. It certainly bests the hybrids offered by Camry, Altima, and Civic. Of course they are all moving targets.
  • bigtbigt Member Posts: 412
    Any ideal what the orange outdoor plug and cord is doing as show in some of the Milan pictures. Does it have to be plugged in to recharge?
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    No it does not. Perhaps it has an optional engine heater for colder weather.
  • bigtbigt Member Posts: 412
    They have done a great job on this vehicle. I am starting to get really interested:

    http://www.mercuryvehicles.com/2010milan/
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,308
    FFH review
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • coldcrankercoldcranker Member Posts: 877
    43 MPG in a Fusion hybrid. Oh.... yeah....
    Styling looks OK, too.
    Just to clear up earlier posts in this thread, the 2.5L 4-cylinder engine is the same one in the latest Escape hybrid, but the rest of the Fusion hybrid (batteries, etc.) is improved over the Escape hybrid.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    41 mpg city, 36 hwy. Beats Camry by 8 mpg city and 2 hwy.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Looks like Ford must have paid the EPA VERY well to get those numbers.

    (jk)

    No, actually, that means they optimized the components very well.

    Good job, Ford !!!

    (never thought I'd say that)
  • milkman1milkman1 Member Posts: 80
    I keep reading about the official EPA estimate for the hybrid, but what about the other engine and transmission options? Are they not out yet?
  • coldcrankercoldcranker Member Posts: 877
    milkman1, I heard the 4cylinder non-hybrid Fusion will beat Accord and Camry in fuel economy.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    No official numbers yet but Ford says the 2.5L I4 should get 34 mpg highway which beats Accord and Camry by 1-2 mpg.
  • iwant12iwant12 Member Posts: 269
    Akirby, do you know if the '10 Fusion will be on the same chassis as the '09? Isn't it based on the Mazda6's chassis? Thanks.
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Member Posts: 9,372
    Check out Edmunds coverage on Straightline

    http://blogs.edmunds.com/straightline/2008/11/2008-la-auto-show-2010-mercury-mil- an-hybrid.html
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Sort of......

    The original chassis for the 06 Fusion was a highly modified Mazda6 chassis (they lengthened and widened it among other things). For the 09 Mazda6 and 2010 Fusion it appears they're sharing an updated version of the Ford CD3 chassis (that's why the 09 Mazda6 is longer and wider). So it started as a Mazda6, was modified by Ford for the 06 Fusion, then updated for the 09 Mazda6 and 2010 Fusion.

    But each company does their own engine controls, tuning, suspension design and tuning, etc. Just look at the fuel mileage of the 2010 Fusion I4 and the Mazda6 with basically the same engine.
  • iwant12iwant12 Member Posts: 269
    Okay, thanks for the info. I'm kind of liking the '10 fusion; have to wait until I see it in person.

    Have a good one.
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 10,707
    Just got my CD, and the Fusion hybrid won the comparo over (in order) the Camry, Altima, and Malibu hybrids. They really liked it, thought it was the best driving one, and it got the best mileage. Estimated EPA city/hwy is 39/37. A Milan version will also be available, but no MKZ.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Ford said today that its new 2010 Fusion hybrid has been certified by the EPA at 41 mpg/city and 36 mpg/highway, with a combined rating of 39 miles per gallon. That beats the hybrid versions of its competitors in the mid-sized sedan segment (at least based on their 2009 EPA ratings): the Toyota Camry (33 city/34 highway); Chevy Malibu (26/34); and the Nissan Altima (35/33).

    http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/uptospeed/2008/12/ford-hybrid-rol.html

    The 2009 Fusion/Milan get real high marks from owners. That should be a good sign for Ford. Ford already has the best CUV hybrid for mileage.
  • coldcrankercoldcranker Member Posts: 877
    The Ford Fusion Hybrid is very good. However, I think the new Honda Insight being sold for $20,000, and the more roomy Prius that gets better MPG are going to be most people's first choices in hybrids. Moving targets there. To me, the Fusion has the advantage of being the most "normal" car amongst the hybrids, a selling point, but it won't equal the MPG of the more roomy Prius or be as cheap as the new Insight.
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 10,707
    "but it won't equal the MPG of the more roomy Prius "

    I don't think the Prius is more roomy than the Fusion - do you?
  • coldcrankercoldcranker Member Posts: 877
    texases said: "I don't think the Prius is more roomy than the Fusion - do you? "

    No, I meant the 2010 Prius will be roomier (slightly) than the previous 2009 Prius, meaning it will get into the range of acceptable interior dimensions for more people. The Fusion is roomier than either the '09 or '10 Prius. In fact, the 2010 Fusion will grow slightly, although I'm not sure by how much.

    Here is one comparison that favors Prius: 50 MPG for '10 Prius, and 40 MPG for '10 Fusion Hybrid.

    I did an interior dimensions comparison between the '09 Prius and '09 Fusion just to see how close the jelly-bean shape of the Prius gets to the conventional layout of the Fusion (Note: front Hip Room is the most important to get a roomy feeling, so its in bold letters below.):

    2009 Prius (2010 model will expand by about 1" in most measurements.):
    Interior
    Front Head Room: 39.1 in. Front Hip Room: 51 in.
    Front Shoulder Room: 55 in. Rear Head Room: 37.3 in.
    Rear Shoulder Room: 52.9 in. Rear Hip Room: 51.6 in.
    Front Leg Room: 41.9 in. Rear Leg Room: 38.6 in.
    Luggage Capacity: 14.4 cu. ft. Maximum Seating: 5

    2009 Ford Fusion:
    Interior
    Front Head Room: 38.7 in. Front Hip Room: 54 in.
    Front Shoulder Room: 57.4 in. Rear Head Room: 37.8 in.
    Rear Shoulder Room: 56.5 in. Rear Hip Room: 53.3 in.
    Front Leg Room: 42.3 in. Rear Leg Room: 37.2 in.
    Luggage Capacity: 15.8 cu. ft. Maximum Seating: 5

    Either hybrid vehicle would be especially great as taxi cabs, where high usage and city driving really make the MPG figures save a bunch of money. The Ford Escape already is used a lot as a taxi, and the 2010 Fusion hybrid should make a great taxi with better MPG, and the new Fusion will be just as big inside as the Escape, although without as big of a luggage capacity.

    '09 Ford Escape Hybrid:
    Interior
    Front Head Room: 40.4 in. Front Hip Room: 53.3 in.
    Front Shoulder Room: 56.6 in. Rear Head Room: 39.2 in.
    Rear Shoulder Room: 55.9 in. Rear Hip Room: 49.1 in.
    Front Leg Room: 41.6 in. Rear Leg Room: 35.6 in.
    Luggage Capacity: 29.2 cu. ft. Maximum Cargo Capacity: 66 cu. ft.
    Maximum Seating: 5

    I was surprised how the front hip room of the Fusion is better than the boxy Escape's!
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 10,707
    Thanks for the info! My brother has a Prius, loves it, gets about 48 mpg in his commute. I've been seriously considering the Camry hybrid, but the CD article has me interested in the Fusion hybrid. Problem might be the Ford dealers wanting to get some extra $$ for it. We'll see.
  • iwant12iwant12 Member Posts: 269
    Do you know if the '10 Fusion will be built in Mexico like the '09s?
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Yes. CD3 production is still in Hermosillo. The Fusion is also exported to South America and Ford can export from Mexico with no tariffs. Exporting from US to SA carries high tariffs.

    If they get sales high enough to warrant another plant I'm sure it will be in the U.S.
  • coldcrankercoldcranker Member Posts: 877
    Markets are small in S. America. Not much money down there. The kinds of cars that do well there are minimal vehicles, built without emissions and safety standards that the Fusion has. Therefore, the Fusion is just not selling well in S. America.

    Whats funny is that I can buy a Sonata, made in the USA, whereas if I buy a Ford Fusion, its made in a foreign country. Weird.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    If Ford was allowed to build cars in the U.S. the way Hyundai does (and all the other imports) then there would be more U.S. production. But they can't, and I don't want to get started on the reasons why.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    I also wanted to point out that the 2010 Fusion uses NO Toyota licensed patents - none. The Escape only used 22 out of hundreds anyway, but they've redone whatever was infringing on the Toyota patents.

    So no more "they bought it from Toyota" crap. Cause if they did then it would only get 33/34 mpg just like the Camry.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    So no more "they bought it from Toyota" crap. Cause if they did then it would only get 33/34 mpg just like the Camry.

    It is good to see Ford doing some innovation that leapfrogs the Imports. It may be what they need to keep out of Bankruptcy.
  • milkman1milkman1 Member Posts: 80
    They make the Fusion in Mexico to avoid the UAW. The Japanese automakers open their plants in right to work states and avoid labor unions taking hold in the first place. The US makers get knocked around by the union when they try and step out of line, example GM and their Saturn plant. US makers are better off importing their own cars. You know, there used to be one brakeman for each rail car on a train. Those jobs went away too because a more efficient means of completing the work was invented. You know, like the cotton gin etc. Teach your kids to do something new auto workers, your compensation is out of line with your skill (mostly). Thanks, The Management
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Yes for the present the FFH has the lead by a good margin in the FE race for the midsized autos. It's a great step and good timing by Ford.

    Now the ball is in Toyota's court to respond. We all benefit by this. Thanks Ford.
  • mtnman1mtnman1 Member Posts: 431
    Yeah, but the Prius and Insight won't be as classy or as fun to drive either. I'd happily give up a few MPG to drive a car that in my opinion is so much better looking. I guess my experience with talking to a couple of Prius owners is their smugness and a "I'm smarter than you" attitude they have that totally turns me off toward the car..
    2012 Highlander Limited AWD V6 and 2015 Ford Fusion Hybrid SE
  • jd25jd25 Member Posts: 43
    Until now I have not considered a hybrid because I thought we have to wait couple of more years for the technology to mature. But after reading about Fusion Hybrid '10 now I'm seriously considering it if it is available in next couple of months. Does anyone when it would be available for sale and the approx. pricing?

    Thanks in advance!
  • bigtbigt Member Posts: 412
    I received a sopec .pdf file from the dealer on the Milian, I am impressed but still no info on how to pre-order. Should I just wait?
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Job 1 is first week in February - hybrids may be a bit later. We should know more next week. My guess is they'll hit dealers in April-May.

    All you need to do to pre-order is talk to the dealer, agree on a price (e.g. MSRP) and have them put in the order whenever the order banks open.
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    the CD article.. pass it on in other forums...
    http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/hot_lists/car_shopping/green_machines/2010_f- ord_fusion_hybrid_short_take_road_test
  • coldcrankercoldcranker Member Posts: 877
    jd25 said: "Until now I have not considered a hybrid because I thought we have to wait couple of more years for the technology to mature."

    I think you're right to go ahead and buy now, because Ford has a ton of experience with the Ford Escape hybrid in the marketplace for about 5 years now. Lots of New York taxi experience in there, too. The Fusion improves on the Escape's hybrid system, evolving the design further. I'm an engineer, and your perception is correct that the engineers need time to evolve something, to get the bugs out. The Escape is generally well thought of in the market, and the Fusion will take it to a whole new level. Very exciting for us engineers, too.

    In that same Car and Driver issue (Feb. 2009) that the glowing Fusion hybrid article is in, notice the editorial column about hydraulic hybrids. That is awesome, game-changing tech for current polluting, gas-hog urban trucks and SUVs. Hybrids don't have to mean ANY electric motors or batteries!
  • coldcrankercoldcranker Member Posts: 877
    scape2 said: "the CD article.. pass it on in other forums...
    http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/hot_lists/car_shopping/green_machines/2010_f- - ord_fusion_hybrid_short_take_road_test "

    Thats a nice test, but remember Car and Driver (the paper Feb. 2009 issue) has a full test and comparison of the Fusion hybrid against Camry, Altima, Malibu hybrids. Guess how the Fusion came out in that test? Notice the colorful language the normally-cynical Car and Driver writers use on the Fusion. Wow.
  • jd25jd25 Member Posts: 43
    Thanks for the reply!

    April-May seems a little too far away for Fusion Hybrid, I was hoping it'd come out in March time frame...

    Also the MSRP $28K of the base Hybrid is a little too steep compared to the gas only Fusion base price $20K... is there any tax rebate that we would qualify for the Hybrid? Do we get such tax rebate deducted from the purchase price or is this a tax rebate adjusted in 1040 filing for 2009?

    Thanks in advance!
  • coldcrankercoldcranker Member Posts: 877
    Its true hybrid cars have never been a great economic decision, unless you put over 15,000 city-driving miles on the vehicle each year. Taxi service qualifies, and some other heavy-use stuff. The premium is just too much for most people. That said, some people see a victory over foreign oil there.

    It looks like Honda, with their newest Insight hybrid, to be out sometime in 2009 or early 2010, will make a $20,000 small hybrid, within reach of more people. If you want a car bargain now, its hard to beat a new 2009 Ford Fusion S 4-cylinder, which I think you can get for around $17,000 now, with Ford discounts. It will get good MPG, and the cost is not that much compared to a $24,000 Prius. Thats $7,000 worth of difference, which buys a lot of gasoline.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    March is theoretically possible, if they start hybrid production on day one and there are no launch delays. But remember - when Ford launches a new product they require 5 consecutive days of error free builds before they start shipping. One error on one vehicle and the 5 day clock starts all over. So it could be end of February before they really start shipping.

    We should get more details at the Detroit auto show starting next week.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Its true hybrid cars have never been a great economic decision, unless you put over 15,000 city-driving miles on the vehicle each year.

    This is not competely accurate. The first part is correct in that unless you drive a goodly number of miles such as 15K or 25K or 35K it really doesn't matter which vehicle you drive. The second part about they being only good for city driving is a common misconception, for two reasons.

    1. The current hybrids as well as the new FFH will get at least 20% better fuel economy on the highway as a non-hybrid version.
    2. This is almost always misunderstood, the pricing often has little or nothing to do with the decision. Why? Buyers that are on a tight budget normally don't look at $28000 vehicles. Buyers that expect to pay $25000 to $35000 for a vehicle see no problem with a hybrid in this range. That's what they normally spend.

    This is the real question that you have to ask. 'In the $25000 - $35000 price segment what vehicle can you buy that get the fuel economy of this new Fusion hybrid.' The only one close is the TCH. Nothing else qualifies. That's a nice position to be in....for both manufacturers.

    Ford and Toyota are making vehicles for this demographic segment. They are not making vehicles for the under-$20K segment...that's Honda's territory. That's also not a coincidence.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    The current hybrids as well as the new FFH will get at least 20% better fuel economy on the highway as a non-hybrid version.

    Camry I4 - 21/31
    Camry I4 hybrid - 31/34

    That's only 10% better. The Fusion numbers will be higher for both but the ratio should be similar. The improvement for city driving is so much higher than the highway improvement that people focus on the city MPG.

    As for the pricing - I've seen countless owners of $50K+ vehicles who use regular instead of premium just to save 20 cents/gallon. People who buy a $30K Fusion are just as likely to be concerned with fuel mileage and fuel savings as someone in a $20K vehicle.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    TCH has combined MPG of 33 and the non-hybrid I4 has a combined MPG of 26.

    That's a 26.9% improvement.

    Just Sayin'.
  • bigtbigt Member Posts: 412
    Does anyone think the extra 5k will be worth it to get the Milian hb?
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    It is not $5K more than the Fusion hybrid. Equipped the same, the two will be at most a couple hundred dollars apart, and in real world sales prices, they will be the same (comparing Fusion and Milan hybrids). If you mean the hybrid over the 4 cylinder Milan, then it depends on what you want. I'd get the hybrid myself...uses less petrol--whether or not it ever pays me back that way--is a quieter car with more gadgets, has more panache, and will have much better resale.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    kdhspyder said the highway mileage was at least 20% better on the hybrid vs. non hybrid. The example I gave showed 31 vs. 34 for the TCH which is a 10% improvement, not 20% - on the highway.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    The realworld number for all TCH's according to GreenHybrid is about 36+ mpg day on a day-in day-out driving, both highway and city. Most customers that have the TCH report 38-41 mpg on long highway trips ( 500 mi or more ).

    Of the 4 Camrys I've owned the lifetime averages have always been about 31 mpg. 85% of my driving is Highway.

    I'd expect both the TCH and certainly the FHH to approach 40 mpg all the time on the highway. The two that I've driven for more than 300 mi at Interstate speeds both got 38-39 mpg. From the available data and my own personal experience I think that the difference is about 20% on the highway, I'm pretty certain that I could push that towards 30%.

    YMMV.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    As for the pricing - I've seen countless owners of $50K+ vehicles who use regular instead of premium just to save 20 cents/gallon. People who buy a $30K Fusion are just as likely to be concerned with fuel mileage and fuel savings as someone in a $20K vehicle.

    Yep that was precisely my point. Buyers who expect to pay $25000+ for a vehicle with certain amenities will not flinch a bit at the FHH or TCH in the $28000 range. This is the demographic toward which these vehicles are aimed.

    These vehicles are NOT airmed toward the budget conscious buyer limited to vehicle prices in the $20K or lower range. That's Honda's territory.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    There is WAY too much variability in "real world" numbers to do a comparison. The EPA tests are highly controlled and exactly repeatable and I'll believe those over "real world" tests unless the "real world" tests are conducted in a similar manner - both vehicles tested exactly the same way - same weather, same route, same driver, same acceleration, speed, duration, same type of fuel (E-10 or E-0, etc.).
  • bigtbigt Member Posts: 412
    I thought the Milian HB was more than a Fusion HB?
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