Photo Radar

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  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Yes, me too. That's why I ARE one.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Yep, if that law is acceptable to society and my peers, it will be accepted by me.

    There are lots of laws I don't particularly LIKE, but I obey them as I should, and as you should.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 54,090
    I guess it is easier not making oneself think...this broken society surely can do no wrong, so if society wants it, society will have it. That mentality has produced wonderful results in Russia and Germany over the years.

    Please, stick to telling your kids what they "should" do and limit the damage, don't try to distract people who aren't born to defer.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,457
    Here's a Wikipedia link with speed limits by country. It came up in the Should the US government bring back the 55 mph max speed limit again? discussion back in the summer iirc. If anything, the US is in the higher end of allowed speed limits.

    Looks like the Arizona cameras around Phoenix are going to lower the grace number to 10 mph instead of 11. There's probably an extra $100 million there. :shades:
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    "aren't born to defer?" What the heck does that mean? Is that something like, "Dude, you go ahead and do what THE MAN tells you, but not me, dude, I'm too cool to let other cats tell ME what to do, dig it?"

    Right and wrong is not a gray issue.

    Speeding is illegal, and just like another other illegal act, doing so WHILE it is illegal is not right.

    Anyone who tells their kids otherwise is a fool.
  • oregonboyoregonboy Member Posts: 1,653
    So you never exceed the posted speed limits? That's the law, right? Not 5 over, not 2 over, not 0.0001 over. In fact you probably have calibrated your speedometer to insure that you are not unintentionally speeding. Right?... Right?...
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Of course I have.

    Every driver has.

    But the point of this forum: Is Photo Radar good/bad/evil etc.

    If people get snapped at 11+ over the limit, they need to pay their fine and shutitup.
  • oregonboyoregonboy Member Posts: 1,653
    I was just trying to clarify a point that you made regarding strict adherence to the letter-of-the-law. So that I might better understand your mindset, you see. :)

    You didn't really answer my question. Do you, as a rule, attempt to always drive at, or below, the posted speed limit?
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    oregonboy asks, "Do you, as a rule, attempt to always drive at, or below, the posted speed limit? "

    Absolutely, about 95% of the time. In fact, one of my personal irritations when driving is having someone "zoom by" me. They are wasting fuel, probably not saving an instant of time (since I usually catch them at the next red light) and are taking a chance that any accident they might have (their fault or not) will be more damaging to their car and their body.

    The other 5% of the time is when I take long trips to Texas to visit my roots. I usually drive 5-7 mph over the limit to try and reduce the 14 hour drive to as short as possible.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 54,090
    Right and wrong is not black and white.

    Breaking laws is not automatically a "wrong". This nation was founded upon breaking unjust laws set by brain dead politicos. And now we have a new set.

    Drop your false moral high ground.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 54,090
    Compare the US to nations of like economic and roadway development. It lags, as it does in so many other regards.

    It's all about the money, and the lawmakers who know quite a few sheeple will defer and conform to anything they decree. If (a dying hypocritical) society deems it acceptable, it must be followed!
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 54,090
    Why is 11+ a magical number when breaking a "law" changes from a tolerable vice to a punishable sin?

    People who preach blind deference need to "shutitup" and get the hell out of any society that wishes to seek progress.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    There is no "false moral high ground" to drop from my perspective.

    If I honestly believe what I say, and I do, and you believe it to be moral high ground, then from your perspective I must be standing on that ground.

    And:

    Speeding by over 11+ mph is an unjust law now?
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    So you are saying that allowing people to drive 11+ mph over the speed limit is "seeking progress?"

    In what way?
  • euphoniumeuphonium Great Northwest, West of the Cascades.Member Posts: 3,425
    "Americans and the moral high ground...think about why the world hates you.

    Were you an American citizen, your sentence would have ended with the word "us".

    It is not criket to complain about a nation whose laws you choose to regard as a cafeteria selection for your selfish purpose while a guest in our country. Perhaps you would be happy living elsewhere. If so, GO, if not submit to our laws.
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    11+ a magical number? Make a suggestion. Should it be 5, 6, 8, ?

    Anyone that cannot control their vehicle velocity to within 10 or 11 mph of the speed limit probably needs to stop driving because they are incompetent, immature or both. Why not just comply? What is so hard? Maybe some folks are just not organized enough to leave early, with plenty of time, so that they do not have to go 11 over. A phsycological (sp) problem?
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    Could you list all the laws, traffic and otherwise, that you found regressive that you then followed up with letters, attended meetings, organized groups, etc., to get these bad laws rescinded or changed. Then, what is your success rate.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 54,090
    I don't take advice from the silent generation. My generation gets to clean up the mess you and your peers made. Sorry.

    You also lack the knowledge and insight to guess citizenship...there is no "us" in this country...
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 54,090
    Keep your red herrings in "rural" Illinois with the rest of the flag waving chickenhawks in their shockingly foreign cars and shoddy mcmansions. Thanks.

    55 took how long to repeal again? That was as regressive and asinine as humanly possible. And as the nation dumbs down, a lot of the sheeple no doubt would like to see it again. Changing these idiots is like fighting bad policy in 1944 Germany or 1953 Russia...good luck.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 54,090
    Why not make it zero? A law is a law, right?

    Why comply with people who are inept in every facet of life? As the song goes...you can't even run your own life, I'll be [darned] if you'll run mine. Why should the government who is inept at everything else be trusted to competently manage speeds and enforcement?

    Those who lack formal credentials in psychological venues shouldn't hazard guesses about said problems.
  • oregonboyoregonboy Member Posts: 1,653
    I'm sorry, but I cannot make the mental contortion necessary to reconcile the idea that the letter-of-the-LAW is to be obeyed regardless of its value or intent with the notion that driving 5-7 over the limit is acceptable on long trips, to save time.
    :sick:
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 54,090
    If you've broken a single law at any time in your life, you forfeit the right to lecture about the ideal of blind deference and submission you somehow embrace.

    Seeking more logical traffic regulations is indeed progress. Maybe the self-righteous who live in the desert and drive turtles at the speed of turtles can't recognize it.
  • oregonboyoregonboy Member Posts: 1,653
    I love that song: "Sunshine", by Jonathan Edwards

    Sunshine go away today
    I don't feel much like dancing
    Some man's gone, he's tried to run my life
    Don't know what he's asking


    :D
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 54,090
    That's the one ;)

    Somehow, it seems even more relevant today, in this time of centralizing nanny-state Orwellian government than it did during that difficult era 40 years ago.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    How about a little Buffalo Springfield For What Its Worth:

    There's something happening now
    What it is ain't exactly clear
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,457
    Wow, another Jonathan Edwards fan.

    Compare the US to nations of like economic and roadway development. It lags

    I guess we'll have to disagree Fin. I try not to drive on vacations outside the US and Canada though - I got lost close to the Nicaragua border once, and almost got a Neon stuck in deep sand a mile off the pavement in northern Baja another trip.

    Civil disobedience is alive and well in Arizona (or at least peaceful protesting is):

    More freeway speed camera protests planned (AZCentral.com)
  • vinnynyvinnyny Member Posts: 764
    "I'm sorry, but I cannot make the mental contortion necessary to reconcile the idea that the letter-of-the-LAW is to be obeyed regardless of its value or intent with the notion that driving 5-7 over the limit is acceptable on long trips, to save time"

    That's what thinking people call "hypocrisy". "Speeding is wrong unless I want to go to Texas". How absurd is that argument?

    It reminds me of the joke about the priest who asks a woman if she will have sex with him for a million bucks. The lady replies that she would have sex with him for a million bucks. The priest responds: "How about sleeping with me for five bucks?" The woman says:"What kind of woman do you think I am?" To which the priest replies: "We already know what kind of woman you are, now we're just haggling over price!"

    (No offense to priests intended, that's just how I heard the joke. I suppose you could change it to IL governor or democratic former President from AR).
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    Apparently letters, citizen meetings, meetings with government officials, other efforts to change or rescind onerous laws or enforcement, such as photo radar is believed to be, never had been initiated or done. Very easy to complain and complain, but takes more effort to actually initiate and follow through with actions to get reviews and adjustments on actual or perceived bad/unfair laws.

    Not really that hard to get laws such as speed limits changed if one tries. Through the years, I have read of numerous instances where citizens unite and petition government officials to change speed limits - wanting to get them lowered, and they suceed. I have also worked with community groups by attending meetings, doing actions, making speeches, giving presentations, etc., to then petition various government bodies on issues affecting my neighborhood.
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    Merely raising a question (with an appropriate "?") about psychological problem is not hazarding a guess. It is just a question.

    +11 or +10 for photo radar speed is in line with actual practice of police officers "giving" some leeway or fudge factor with either manned radar or police car "clocking" a driver by following behind. A state trooper living in my neighborhood told me years ago that he gives +10 on interstates and rural highways. I did not question him whether his colleagues give the same or that that is an unwritten police procedure.

    I have heard from others that +10 is usually given. There might be conditions where +10 is given, such as dry road and daylight. Maybe less is given for lesser conditions. Maybe zero if someone is trying to go at speed limit on an icy road.
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    Read that article. Believe that there is a time and place for everything. Standing on an overpass and distracting drivers below is irresponsible. The protesters need to reviisit their strategy, if they even have one.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    fintail says, "If you've broken a single law at any time in your life, you forfeit the right to lecture about the ideal of blind deference and submission you somehow embrace. "

    Wrong.


    People can adjust their attitudes. I am a long way attitudinally from myself at age 24, and many men are like that if it takes them a while to mature.

    I had broken many laws in my youth. In my stupidity, in my ignorance, in my lack of understanding as to how things should work in a civilized society.

    As I grew up, I began to understand how things should be.

    I have many lawmen in my family. Most of them have done traffic patrols. They tell me that in most cases, people doing 5-7 miles per hour over the limit are not going to get pulled over.

    And in my opinion, having an accident at 80 miles per hour is not going to be much different than having an accident at 75 miles per hour. But when you start talking 86+ miles an hour, the differences magnify.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    vinny says, "That's what thinking people call "hypocrisy". "Speeding is wrong unless I want to go to Texas". How absurd is that argument? "

    Well, I have never said "speeding, even if only 1 mile per hour over the limit is a capital offense."

    I have said "If you drive 11+ miles per hour over the limit and get snapped by photo radar, then pay your fine and shaddup yer piehole about it. You made your own bed, now get your [non-permissible content removed] to sleep in it."

    And even when I go to Texas, and I drive 5-7 miles per hour over the limit, SAFELY, there are hundreds of people an hour passing me, HUGE NUMBERS of them going more than 11 miles an hour over the limit.
  • vinnynyvinnyny Member Posts: 764
    "Right and wrong is not a gray issue. Speeding is illegal, and just like another other illegal act, doing so WHILE it is illegal is not right. Anyone who tells their kids otherwise is a fool." Your words...

    So, what you really teach your kids is that right and wrong IS a gray issue--if I agree with the law, then it is right. If I disagree with the law, then it is wrong. Furthermore, if I partially agree with the law, then the part I disagree with is wrong and it is right to only obey the part I agree with (i.e. "speeding is illegal and therefore wrong--unless I'm going to Texas, which makes it OK for me to violate the law, but only if I don't violate it by more than 10 mph").

    I wouldn't dream of telling you how to raise your kids. However, I will say that my kids understand that breaking the law is wrong. Unless the law itself is wrong--in which case they have a responsibility as citizens to try to affect a change to that law.

    Referring back to the million dollar lay: it sounds to me like we know what kind of citizen you are--we're merely haggling over how many miles-per hour.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Right. And my kids know that driving 5-7 mph over the limit is illegal. Black and white. No gray.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 54,090
    "Wrong. "

    You are entitled to your opinion. Please keep right and have a good day :P

    Civilized society? Give it a rest.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 54,090
    It's much easier to go backwards than forwards...

    "Doing actions"...

    The vague award goes to...
  • euphoniumeuphonium Great Northwest, West of the Cascades.Member Posts: 3,425
    "Civilized society? Give it a rest."

    Anarachy is a political theory holding all forms of governmental authority to be unnecessary and undesirable and advocating a society based on voluntary cooperation and free association of individuals and groups.

    In the USA government is made of Laws, not individual or independent opinion of behavior.

    The "speed limit" sign trumps the "keep right" sign & they are printed in Black & White. Get used to it down here. :P
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 54,090
    In the USA, government is made of cronies and the ideal of who one knows trumping what one knows, all working for special interest groups who have nothing to do with the well being of said country.

    The USA was founded upon independent behavior trumping unjust laws made by people who deserve the same horrible fate they have given to too many people in this world. The USA was not founded in blind deference to laws made by credential-free cronies and embraced by wannabe-authoritarians of a dying overrated generation.

    Keep your butt in the right lane, and there won't be any trouble :P
  • fezofezo Manahawkin, NJMember Posts: 10,379
    I'll hate myself for getting in here but finding out that there were other Jonathan Edwards fans made it too much to miss.....

    Just setting aside the perfectly valid privacy issues for the moment, when the heck did we give these cameras the power of guilty until proven innocent?

    In NJ we've had some photo enforcement cameras around for quite some time. They are sprouting all over at traffic lights now.

    well, back when they were hitting the owners of the cars caught even when the owner could prove he wasn't here at the time. You had hundreds of folks that could prove they were out of state the entire day that the camera supposedly nailed them but to no avail. The one guy who was able to get a not guilty through was one who was able to prove that no only he but the car in question never left Virginia that day and thus could not be in New Jersey.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    Many complainers never do anything constructive to get change, address possible grievances. Just complain, complain, talk, talk, talk and are unwilling or incapable of mounting inquiries and seek corrective actions.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Speeding is illegal, and just like another other illegal act, doing so WHILE it is illegal is not right

    Didn't Thoreau indicate civil disobedience is sometimes a necessary step to reach rational laws?
  • oregonboyoregonboy Member Posts: 1,653
    The "speed limit" sign trumps the "keep right" sign

    You can't be serious, can you? That is a REALLY dumb poorly reasoned statement. :sick:
    Using the same logic, murder trumps armed robbery, so robbery must be okay, as long as you don't kill anyone.... brilliant! :shades:
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 18,881
    "...What is a good reason for anyone to be driving 11+ miles per hour over the speed limit?..."

    Interesting question, since you ask me to defend something that I rarely do and usually am opposed to for others.

    How about this. Near where I live there is a section of I-87 where the speed limit drops from 65 to 55 for no real reason before increasing to 65 again a few miles down the road. The guvmint (as you call it) says that this is because the road is close to an urban area and this is one of the reasons a state may choose to set limits lower. The trouble is that a few miles down the road where the speed increased to 65 is CLOSER to urban areas than where it is 55.

    Also our local boys in blue always have a radar trap at the point where the limit drops to 55. they catch a large number of people who after traveling perhaps hundreds of miles at 65 don't notice the unexplained change to 55. They get nailed for doing 66-67 in a 55 zone and good old NY state nicks them for fines, surcharges and safety assessments to the tune of several hundred dollars.

    It is scams like these that make me suspisous of photo radar as anything other than a money grab. They just don't want the police officers judgment or kindness to screw up their shakedown.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2004 Chevy Van, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • fezofezo Manahawkin, NJMember Posts: 10,379
    I'll bet that is right about where they nailed my brother. Classic just past the speed limit sign trap. Cop had an attitude and hit him for every little mph he might have been going.

    My brother went to court to fight the ticket. since he came from out of state to fight it the prosecutor was stunned. He reduced it to a parking ticket. Yes, you can go over the speed limit and be considered parking in the eyes of the law.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 18,881
    "...when I take long trips to Texas to visit my roots. I usually drive 5-7 mph over the limit..."

    Isn't that like a Senator who preaches "family values" 95% of the time spending the other 5% trolling for sex in the men's room? Virtue is not a sometimes thing. ;)

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2004 Chevy Van, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 54,090
    "when the heck did we give these cameras the power of guilty until proven innocent?"

    The same day we decided to submit to the surveillance grid, big brother, new world order....a natural progression.

    Time to get some polarized license plate covers, perhaps.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 54,090
    And keep deferring and conforming, you'll get the future you deserve ;)

    Incapable...exactly. The masses are incapable of creating change if they as a whole stick within the lines of what the yellow hypocrite authoritarians deem to be "proper". Words can incite...and with any luck they will.
  • vinnynyvinnyny Member Posts: 764
    "The "speed limit" sign trumps the "keep right" sign & they are printed in Black & White. Get used to it down here."

    Incorrect. In many states impeding the flow of traffic carries as many points as a 10 mph over-the-limit violation. Besides, if you have no place to go, why not have the courtesy to move right for a few moments and let them pass? It will only hurt for a little while and may keep you from getting shot by some maniac. You might even be surprised by the pleasant wave you're likely to get from the person passing.
  • euphoniumeuphonium Great Northwest, West of the Cascades.Member Posts: 3,425
    I'll have the courtesy when you have the sensitivity to adhere to the S.L.

    "Courtesy" is another ruse of the driver who wants nobody in front of him.

    The better driver can pass on the Right while those driving as fast as the law allows may remain in the far Left lane, driving as fast as the law allows.

    As for the maniac with a gun, when I'm within his range, he's within mine.
  • euphoniumeuphonium Great Northwest, West of the Cascades.Member Posts: 3,425
    Again, OB you have displayed screwed logic. Neither exceeding the SL or robbery is OK.

    Trump = ranks more important. Conforming to the Speed Limit is more important than Keeping Right.
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