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Comments
-------> Then why do off-roaders want bigger tires? Why don't they get like 13-inch tires, and want to get them as big as possible?
I would think the X-REAS might hamper suspension articulation off road.
-------> Or, it can prevent serious vehicle damage by not allowing the vehicle to lean on the side and strike obstacles
We should have some off-road experts here, what's your opinion?
Very smooth vehicle, good handling for a truck.
V6 plenty of power.
This is the same issue many of the Land Rover Discovery folks are having. With the '03 Discovery SE, Land Rover mounted 18" wheels with high speed low profile tires. Folks that have taken those vehicles off-road have posted on that board about experiencing flats. They have since looked to purchase 16" wheels and higher aspect ratio tires to maintain the same overall diameter for off-road use.
I'm on the fence with regard to X-REAS. It will limit vehicle articulation in off-road situations which is bad. Articulation is not so much allowing the body to lean over and strike obstacles as it is trying to keep all four tires planted on the ground when crawling over rocks, logs, etc. Good suspension articulation is a must have in those conditions. Also, I should think the system would make it more difficult or expensive to "lift" the truck or modify the suspension package for heavy duty off-road use. A simple upgrade to Old Man EMU springs for instance, might be impossible with X-REAS.
I am under the impression X-REAS is more meant for limiting body roll in cornering on-road. It tightens the truck up, makes it feel more like a sports sedan than a SUV. Like I said, I'm on the fence on X-REAS.
X-REAS and offroad, here's my take. I know you want articulation, and I'm not arguing that, but I am arguing that X-REAS really interferes with the benefits of articulation. In my opinion (and with my experience in this vehicle off-road) X-REAS helps keep all 4 wheels on the ground more than without. Since the shocks are cross linked, and most off-road techniques teach to go over high-centering objects at an angle, the cross linked shocks actually help. When the front-right tire for instance is going over the high object (being a rock or steep whoop-di-woo) then the back left is pushing against the lower ground, which is keeping the vehicle nice and stable (rockcrawler has a good section on the X-REAS in their review of the 4runner). I loved the X-REAS for medium rated terrain offroad. I'm sure if you are doing harcore rockcrawling where you need tons of articulation, you wouldn't be using a new '03 4runner anyway, but rather a '92 or something like a rubicon heavily jacked up, so that point is moot.
-Jared
As for towing and whether to choose the V6 or V8, I'd suggest considering how much load and how often you expect to tow. If the trailer is substantially less than the max rating for the V6 (say 3000 lbs or so) and you don't expect to be towing for the majority of the time, the V6 should do very well. A proven transmission is a plus when towing, as towing seems to kill transmissions more often than engines. However if you expect to be towing much of the time and/or you want to tow heavy loads, it seems like the V8 (especially with the new upgraded hitch, whatever that is) is the ticket. I'd be comfortable assuming that Toyota has done a good job with the new 5-speed transmission. Also, heed the recommendations of others here previously in terms of towing and shifting practice. I've towed and pulled and driven heavy trucks a bunch in a previous life, and it can be a whole different form of driving if you're very heavy overall or near vehicle limits.
As far as towing boats, I've also seen big problems at concrete boat ramps with 2WD vehicles. As a poster stated, having rear wheels on wet and on mossy concrete is a recipe for slippage and onlooker (but not driver!) entertainment. The limited-slip functionality provided by the traction control feature through braking of the lower-traction wheel will help, but having two front wheels pulling on dry pavement (even if they're not very heavily loaded) has got to be a plus. In addition, 4WD lo-range might be helpful in terms of a slow, easily-controlled start and pull. I haven't tried this myself, though, and the more-abrupt shifts in 4-lo (discussed previously here) might be a problem as you pick up speed on a slick ramp.
Fuel grade and mileage: Please do some searches on this thread and you will find lots of good information. As a summary, though, I'd say that premium gets you the full rated horsepower of these high-compression engines (especially the higher-compression V6), but costs you $ and a little mileage. The engine is spec'd to adapt well to octanes as low as 87, so you should be fine there, if max HP is not a requirement. As far as mileage goes, I'm getting around 20 on a V6 in mixed driving, with a slight bias toward highway.
To me it seems like Toyota doesent really care for those who paid top dollar for their trucks and just worried about sales. This was my 1st Toyota and it will be my last if Toyota doesent offer us the option to upgrade soon.
You may not think it matters if i never buy toyota but im sure im not the only one who feels this way.
What I know about the X-REAS is what I've read in reviews, on this board, and talking with the boys at the 4x4 after market shops. Guess I need to read the Rockcrawler review
Point well made about where would you take your new 4Runner. Definitely NOT going to Moab with it to rock crawl, get the old CJ out for that. So, your point about the stability of X-REAS in moderate conditions is well made. Just curious, and trying to get a point of reference, have you had your 4Runner on any trails in Colo.? For that matter, has anyone had their '03 4Runner on trails in CO, AZ, UT? If so, which ones? I would like to know where folks have taken their 4Runners off-road.
corancher,
Thanks. The whole thing about large wheels and low profile tires can be confusing. They are great on road, terrible off. The manufacturers really don't know which way to jump. Do they please the folks that want good on-road handling, or do they please the off-road crowd? There doesn't seem to be a good compromise. But, the 17" wheel and tire combo on the 4Runner is pretty close.
Thanks for steering me to the thread on towing. I hadn't seen it before and find it interesting.
Steve, Host
It's interesting about the "standard" for the cladding on the '03 SE. The information I received showed it not being available for '04. I'll have to check into that. I ordered the SR5 because I thought the SE had that gray cladding.
The engine / transmission options for '04 are the same as '03', at least that's the information I have.
>did you see anything about memory seats or hid headlights as a 2004 option ???
No, I dont' see either of those as options.
>Also, is the interior fabric changing in any of the models?
No change; same interior colors
I would rather go with the smooth fenders like that of the limited than to have my current fenders just painted.
Toyota needs to do its best to offer this package to existing gray cladding SR5's. This will help sales i think. Most of the general public assume that the SR5 come only in gray and the colored only in limited. Not to many people can afford the limited so they dont even bother with the 4runner. The more the toyota can wash out the gray cladding SR5 owners...the faster the public can be aware that the cladding is gone
XREAS shocks are MONOTUBE high-pressure. Therefore, they are more fade ressistant in off-roading (better cooling & faster acting) than standard shocks (which are twin-tube low-pressure). The ride in XREAS is firmer due to this fact. Handling is better due to cross-linking and high-pressure/montoube system in XREAS.
I also agree with Jaredmsd in the off-roading situation he described.
This past weekend I went west of Boulder to the Switzerland Trail and from there continued on the Sugar Loaf Mountain Trail west to highway 72. These aren't super challenging, with mostly just ruts, bumps, and rock fields that don't stick up from the trail more than about 6 to 8 inches in a few places. Still, I didn't get much over 10 to 15 mph on any of the trail. Both of these trails are listed as 'Easy' in the guidebooks I have. There were a couple minivans near the start of the Switzerland trail, but I'm not sure I'd want to take a minivan further on down where some of the rock fields are. Only saw a Jeep Grand Cherokee on those parts.
It was fun, but I don't think it was challenging the ability of the 4Runner at all. There were some interesting side trails going up (and back down) a steep hill near the start (towards Gold Hill) that I elected not to take. I can't claim I'm all that experienced off-roading yet.
I want to try the Jamestown-Ward trail (listed as moderate difficulty) sometime soon.
this is all a myth to pad the already overstuffed pockets of oil companies. even if it were true, i doubt that it would be more than one or two horsepower. i'd love to see dyno tests that prove this with the 4Runner engines or any others for that matter. octane has always primarily been related to engine knocking and compression ratios rather than measured horsepower at the driving wheels.
for those who think it's worth the extra 20 cents a gallon for premium fuel because they will gain horsepower and performance, i am of the opinion that they are simply throwing money away. 87 Octane is just fine.
As far as X-REAS, looks like no one really knows if it helps or hurts off-road
As far as 17-inch rims, it appears people here generally agree that 16-inch rims would be better due to more rubber contact with the road, but at the same time 17-inch tires may have enough rubber to still be quite adequate off-road
Would that be a correct summary of the discussion?
If the engine can run without preignition on 87 octane, then running on higher octane fuel provides no benefit. If your enging requires 89 or 93 octane fuel and you run it on 87 octane, you will loose hp because of the retarded ignition timing.
I have heard that changing fuel octane and monitoring your gas mileage will indicate if you are running the optimum octane fuel. Retarded timing from inadequate octane will lower your mileage. Put in a couple of tankfuls of 93 octane and see if your mileage increases over what you get with 87 octane. If you see no difference, then you are fine with 87 octane. If you see an improvement, then trying 89 octane for a few tanks and seeing if your mileage improvement remains. If it does, and it is better than what you get with the 87 octane fuel, then your engine needs 89 octane gas to get optmimum performance. However, your engine with the detonation sensor will run perfectly safely on 87 octane if your owner's manual says so.
In addition to looks, the cladding is a wonderful protectant against scratches and dings (whether they come from a parking lot or shrubbery on the trail.)
Personally, I would be concerned to have the matching cladding as it is still vinyl and looks as though it would not be as scratch resistant.
Are people pointing fingers and laughing at me driving down the road in my gray cladded vehicle???
(By the way - It has side air bags)
i also feel that that the cladding provides a break to and cuts down on the monochromatic paint's tendency to make the 4Runner look like a fat slab from the side. Thin is in!
Dude! Our Cladding is cooooooool.....
so-cali, I think Toyota is being honest in what they say in the operating manual about the fuel to use in the vehicle, and why. The high-compression engines (the V8 and especially the V6)can produce more horsepower if they can use the optimum ignition timing advance. That's the reason for designing a high-compression engine: higher specific output. Of course, this only affects the driver in terms of max HP available. Most of us don't use (or need) full throttle very often, and might not detect the difference otherwise.
Normally, using lower-than-optimum octane fuel (which is easier to ignite than premium) would cause knock or mild detonation, and that would be bad (or very bad). These engines have knock sensors, though, and retard the timing enough to cause the knock to go away. This retaded timing causes an appreciable drop in HP (nobody has said just how much) but I doubt it's a dramatic one, as long as the octane is above the recommended minimum of 87. These engines, after all, are designed to run on a range of octanes.
rogers12 and I are on the same page about the situation so far, but I have heard differently about mileage and octane. I suppose it depends on whether the engine has a single "right" octane it prefers, or if it's designed for a range of operation, like these 2 engines. High-octane gas actually has less energy/gallon, and so these engines should produce more horsepower and fewer MPG on premium. I haven't tested it, though.
As for the engine noise, I hear a very noticeable clicking noise from the engine area. The service advisor said the TSB is for engines that are making a squeaking noise so it doesn’t apply. Basically I have to live with it. Anybody with input on this?
Final one I hear a low hissing sound when I step on my brakes. It only happens when the truck is in motion. Some sort of air leak. There was another person in this board posted the same issue. Service advisor said it’s a normal sound. Thanks in advance!
!!Color keyed cladding on ALL 4Runners!!
Gray cladding is no longer available. '03 or '04, makes no difference. Not an option, no way, Jose. Ain't gonna be no more.
As the 'body colored' cladding is plastic, I would like to hear from a few after one year when it is scratched. Grey cladding, I feel, will be much more durable.
FYI - I have a neighbor with a late 90's 4-WD 4-runner that tows a 25 contender w/twin 200's. That combination has an all up weight of 6,500 lbs +. Seems like it would kill his truck, but 170,000 miles and counting says it can handle it easily. Thanks all. . . .
Well, BMW not only includes front and side airbags on all models, but it also includes head protection airbags, even on their SUV.
Cladding - with vinyl, non-painted cladding on the overfenders, the lower sills and the bumpers, it is much easier and faster to wax, for a big vehicle!
Octane - I've run 3 tanks of fuel using premium and 3 tanks with mid grade. My mileage is better with the mid grade fuel. However, this could also be caused by break-in, or driving habits, etc. - so not very scientific. I can not notice any difference in power between the two types of fuel. I also intend to try at least a couple of tanks of regular grade gas.
cladding on my silver sport v6. i think it looks great and it really prevents door dings. this is the only car i have that has no door dings yet
even after 6 months of ownership.
They took care of that problem by dropping both of those colors for '04; no jade green or red pearl. They also dropped the charcoal gray interior on the SE and replaced it with the sand from the SR5. Now the SR5 and SE both have only one interior option. (option? doesn't sound like an option. Sounds like Henry Ford..."They can have any color they want, as long as it's black")
I would like to have gotten the side bags, but I never ever saw an SR5 with them, and don't remember them in any Sports, either.
I'm not too concerned about the lack of side bags, though, particularly on a vehicle like this. Its mass and frame should reduce the lateral acceleration from an impact, and its height should mean that the bumper and hood of even a high-riding vehicle (pickup or tall SUV, say) won't be impacting my chest and head, respectively.
BTW, Toyota gets kudos from me for making the bumpers on this vehicle compatible with most passenger cars, and keeping the front end "soft" to avoid pedestrian injury as much as possible. I chose a body-on-frame SUV like the 4Runner rather than a unibody crossover like the Highlander because (among other things) I'll need to do some towing. But even though I had to choose a higher, heaver vehicle, I'm happy I could choose one that is, compared to some others, a better citizen of the road.
The vehicle came with side air bags, moonroof, running boards, factory rack, X-REAS (standard on Sport), 6-CD stereo, floor mats and the incredible First Aid kit. I paid $200 over invoice....$32600 in January.
Whew...thanks everyone for the input on cladding. I will drive with a smile now!
Thanks for the info. I’ve already called the number twice and was given 2 case numbers. When I ran the TSB by the Service Advisor, he suggested going with the fix anyway because the symptoms are the same. The only difference is the noise but it’s coming from the same are of the engine. I don’t think the fix will harm the truck or am I wrong to assume that?