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The numbers are phenomenal. Acceleration and braking beat not only the old spec.B, but also the MazdaSpeed6. And keep in mind those were both special edition tuner cars, this 2.5GT Limited is not.
Watch the video, then the video of the Speed6. vs previous Legacy GT comes up. Watch both.
The new Legacy has significantly less body roll in the slalom. Braking from 60mph is 13 feet shorter. They say the shifter linkage has improved.
Yet the tone of the article is critical. I don't get it.
I'd be curious as to how it compares with a Garmin. I think you may have mentioned that before, but maybe not in too much detail? Obviously any portable NAVI units will be significantly cheaper, and the maps may be more up to date, as with the POIs. Can you elaborate a bit more on the portable vs. in-dash Subie NAVI units? It's easy for those of us who have not "lived" with an in-dash unit, to scoff at it, but I believe you also have a portable GPS unit. So your hands-on experience with both would be very helpful. Thanks.
I have a 3-year old Garmin Nuvi 360. I couldn't possibly put in writing here every difference, and each person has different needs anyway, so I'll try to summarize....
First off, someone coming from a Garmin is going to hate the Outback nav -- at first. The user interface appears to be not as elegant or refined. After playing with it for a while (hours), what I found is that different is not necessarily worse. It's just, well, different. The user interface and menu structure requires a learning curve because it's not copied from Garmin, so Garmin users will at first feel it in unintuitive. Once you learn where everything is, and figure out how to program points of interests and waypoints, and decipher all of the meanings of the different icons on the screen, and learn the quirky way to set up your favorite destinations and select a state to search in, it actually works very, very well.
The Subaru nav excells at quick startup, loud and friendly speech, and a feature called "QuickPOI" that shows common nearby destinations on the screen that you can click on while driving, like gas stations, and get detailed info about them and even call using Bluetooth. It also benefits from the giant screen by having split screen features and a handy zoomed-in inlay for your next turn.
The POI database is extensive, consuming 3 DVD's, so there's more types of POI's than a Garmin. It's more like the yellow pages.
The voice activation capability is also extensive, but the instructions on use are really, really poorly documented in the manual so you just need to play with it to understand. The voice activation lets you do most functions even when driving.
So the only things I liked better with my Garmin are the text-to-speech (not a big loss since the road name is in front of you in the Outback), 3-D view (turns out I'm starting to like the 2-D view better anyway), and of course the portability.
Price remains a factor, but as I've said many times on these boards -- if you can afford the $2000, you'll appreciate the complete integration of audio with the nav, bluetooth, MP3, radio as well as the rear camera, all playing nice through the speakers and using the steering wheel controls. It's still expensive though but with technology trickle-down, I bet we start to see systems like this closer to $1300 in the next few years now that Bluetooth and rear cameras are starting to become standard equipment in many cars.
OK, I've said as much as can. I totally need to get back to my day job! :shades: \
Peace out,
Elliot
The 1490T is pretty good. It does have Bluetooth and free traffic. The Bluetooth is really appreciated—but there's no phonebook, which I find really frustrating, The free traffic is just so-so at best. I could subscribe to an MSN (?) traffic source, but I'm too cheap. It's also got an "Eco Drive" function, which so far seem more like a gimmick than a useful feature. Finally, it's nowhere as elegant as having a built-in GPS, that's fully integrated with the car's functions.
I too just started using the 2-D viewing, and I seem to prefer that over the 3-D screen.
Bob
It was a shame because it was a nice-looking vehicle, the step-in height was perfect for me and the amenities inside the car were excellent, but all of that was diminished by the awful ride.
I came back to the Outback. Two more weeks until my new car arrives, just in time for the November incentives. Anyone know if Subaru will start offering cash incentives in November on the current model year?
Bob
The surprise was that ordering navigation system is a 4 month affair. In fact they showed me an order from June that they still were waiting for delivery! In our discussions about lock-out features they were surprised that Acura does/did not.
I'll test drive soon, hopefully.
I have one comment for Elliot's remark: "It's still expensive though but with technology trickle-down, I bet we start to see systems like this closer to $1300 in the next few years."
I'm not sure this will happen...soon. In 2005 the Navi on the TSX was $2k vs. paying $800 for an after-market. I thought it was worth it for the looks, size and interface. In hindsight not worring about getting broken into for the portable ones was an added bonus. For 2009, the price for Navi is the same (Acura) but a good portable is down to $200-400. After 4-5 years auto manufacturers have not bothered to reduce prices. I'm sure it's high margin.
Thanks.
Anyhow, to answer so many questions/remarks about reduced features and cheaper finish on this and many other blogs, the answer (mostly anyhow) is the falling US$ as a currency vs. other mayor countries. The Japanese yen appreciated 30% since late 2001. This means J auto makers make little money from selling cars to americans due to our horrible currency. The euro is up over 65%.
Competition is tough and raising prices much is not an option, thus the cost cutting moves (eg. non folding side mirrors)
Anyways, not trying to insult anybody with the headline but sometimes the obvious escapes us, especially U.S. centric mentality
I am hoping that with my new Outback and the MPG gauge right in front of me, I will learn how to be a better, calmer driver - except for the people in the DC area who don't know how to drive - except drive me crazy by going the speed limit in the left lane!
Some of the Outback consumer reviews complained about having the MPG gauge instead of a temperature gauge, but I think I will find it helpful. I am looking forward to computing my MPG after my first fill-up.
CARS101.com (I found it by accident by typing Subaru Research) was the site I relied on most for my research, specs, options and comparisons to similar vehicles before deciding on the 2010 Outback Limited.
Subaru, OTOH, is intelligently utilizing 17" wheels on its Outback. They are acceptably large cosmetically and much more functional.
Subaru has 3 different engines (2.5i, 2.5T, and 3.6R) and 3 different transmissions (CVT, 5EAT, 6spd MT) and at least 3 different models (i, Premium, Limited) of each of those in 2 different body styles (sedan, crossover).
You need a PhD to keep it all straight, and that's just Legacy/Outback.
In Europe? It gets even more complicated. Add more engines to deal with (diesel) and one extra body style (wagon).
Toss in Forester, which many people compare, and you add 2 more transmissions (4EAT, 5 spd MT) and a different turbo engine (224hp) and a PZEV option on the non turbo (with differnet power ratings) and by the way they don't come in all combinations, only some.
It's tough to keep it all straight, so I can't blame people for coming for help, we should welcome them and try to help. :shades:
Toyota's Venza? You have one choice to make: 4 banger or V6. Period.
With that said, there is enough research material available on the internet to answer some, not all, of the questions posted. I guess you just have to know where to look. Sometimes it does take precious time and patience to find what you are looking for.
The CARS101 website was extremely helpful to me while I was researching the Outback. It was very clear in explaining what was new for the 2010 models, what options were available, and how they were packaged. There are loads of pictures so you can see what the different options look like before you decide to buy.
I am not sure that every car manufacturer has such a dedicated salesman as Subaru has in Joe Spitz for developing and maintaining that website. It was truly invaluable to me in making my decision.
Also, the on-line tools don't always make it simple to see what equipment each model adds. It will just list a huge, long list of equipment and features.
For instance, what does the Limited package add?
It's easy to list all of the features, sure, but what if someone wants to know just what it adds over the 2.5i model, to see if they think it's worth the difference?
Not to mention it changes year by year. It used to include a moonroof, but not any more. The Premium package always had the all-weather gear included, but that's not always the case any more either.
It's just a complex task to keep track of it all.
Changing gears...
In the Miata community, something funny happened. Mazda used to have a base model, then Touring, then Sport, then Grand Touring. They flip-flopped. Now the Touring model is better equipped than the Sport. It's confusing like crazy to someone shopping for used cars. An 06 Sport = 07 Touring, 06 Touring = 07 Sport.
Try keeping that one straight.
No cars101 for Mazda, either.
http://cars101.com/
then went here
http://www.cars101.com/outback.html
then here
http://www.cars101.com/subaru/outback/outback2009photos.html
then here
http://www.cars101.com/subaru/outback/outback2009.html
and found it:
everything the 2.5i SE has, plus...
new Dark privacy tinted glass (2.5i and SE have standard tint)
new Power Passenger seat, 4 way
new Passenger seat lumbar support
new 2.5i Limited alloy wheels now the same 'turbo design' that has been on the 08 XT and 3.0R LL Bean models
new Audio controls on steering wheel (also has cruise controls)
Automatic Sportshift 4spd transmission (no manual available)
Leather interior, 3 spoke leather wrapped steering wheel, parking brake, shift knob
Woodgrain shift knob
Woodgrain patterned interior trim
Windshield dark shade band across top of windshield
Climate control, dual zone front, 6speed fan, auto and manual functions
Body colored door handles
Body colored outside mirrors
Rear seat center fold down armrest
17" 'turbo design' alloy wheels that have been on the XTs
Steering wheel, leather wrapped, with Audio Control and Cruise Controls
Dual pane power glass sunroof with auto open/close (deletes sunglass holder)
Stereo: AM/FM/ 6 disc CD changer. Plays MP3, R/RW discs. Auxilliary input in center console. Pre-wired for XM or Sirius satellite radio. Panasonic.
new Harman Kardon audio system, 440-watt, 9-speaker, 8 channel amp/equalizer, subwoofer under front passenger seat, subtle speed sensitive volume control.
Optional Navigation System (model code 9DH), Kenwood 7" touch screen, GPS
Disc updates only available from store.kenwoodusa.com
It's a similar number of steps for the 2010, and then I'd have to compare. So more than double that much work.
Ask here and someone will say "pretty much the same except the moonroof is a la carte". You'll get an answer in seconds.
I guess - only if someone happens to be on-line at the same time you are asking/posting your question.
Maybe it's just the way my mind works. I would still want to do the research myself to confirm any information I am given. Probably my suspicious NY nature. :-)
First you do some general research on the models you like, and create a short list.
Once you have a short list, though, there's nothing like asking an expert on that particular brand/car for advice. They're the ones that can help you identify which model may be the best value, or one that may fit yours needs best. They can also tell you what to look out for.
For instance, I know plenty about Subarus, but I was new to Toyota when I went minivan shopping. The pros warned me about the run-flat tires, especially the cost of replacement after their short lifespan. You couldn't read that on any specs list.
So even if I thought I knew what model I wanted, I'd still ask in the Sienna threads for expert opinions.
Any how, cars101 is extremely useful and should not be ignored.
Yeah, I know, it would serve me right if you told me to go look it up on the internet. :-)
Run-flat tire
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A run-flat tire is a pneumatic vehicle tire that is designed to resist the effects of deflation when punctured, and to enable the vehicle to continue to be driven at reduced speeds (up to 90 km/h or 55 mph),[1] and for limited distances of up to 100 miles (160.9 km),[2][1] or even 200 miles (321.8 km) depending on the type of tire.[3] First patented in 1892,[2] run-flat tires were re-developed in 1978 and offered as an option in the 1990s mainly for two-seat sports cars with little room for spare tires and jacks. They have grown in popularity for other vehicles, such as high-end luxury cars,[1] because of their safety and convenience,[4] costing double the price of sports tires.[1][3]
Basically it's a tire with a reinforced sidewall, that can run without any air pressure, usually at limited speed and distance. But donuts also limit speed and distance.
The idea is you could limp home and make it.
Advantages? You don't need to pull over in that narrow shoulder and change a tire and risk your life. It also eliminates the need for an on-board spare tire, leaving more room for cargo space. You save on the cost and weight of the actual spare tire, as well.
Disadvantages? They tend to ride harshly. That same rigid sidewall can mean a hard ride. They tend to weigh more, and it's unsprung weight, too, where you want it least. They cost more, a lot more, and they tend not to last as long. Finally, only certain shops are equipped to change them, and may not even carry them at all, if you slash a sidewall and need one exchanged - you could be stranded in the middle of nowhere.
On the Sienna, they're $800 a set and last 20k miles, if that. I can replace my tires at half that cost and they last twice as long, cutting my tire budget by 75%.
Honda offers them on the Ody and it's the same problem - plus they come in 17.5" rim sizes so that really limits replacement tire selection.
I think they're a good idea, but I certainly hope Subaru waits until they iron out the kinks, and get costs down, before they start offering them.
I would pull over and let my husband change the tire. :-)
If he's not with me, that's what USAA road-side assistance is for. If I can afford it, I always pay a professional.
On top-of-the-line models only, I believe.
Bob
The saleswoman looked it up on the factory brochure and some other special dealer info package they had and all she could find was that it was voice activated with blue-tooth and I-pod control, but oddly it didn't mention the back up camera capability as it did on the Tribeca brochure. I'm probably going to go for NAV but it will be a special order. There are none available in the mid Atlantic.
The cars101.com site did mention that nav had backup camera.
http://www.subaru.com/content/downloads/pdf/brochures/2010_outback.pdf
"We have a 2010 OB with the 2I.5 engine and CVT . We recently towed our pop-up camping trailer (GVW 2,600 lb) about 600 miles round-trip over some winding coastal mountain roads. Electric trailer brakes certainly provide a measure of confidence. The rig climbed well. I suspect that Subaru, like every other company, tries to manage their liability by posting conservative limits on something covered by their warranty."
I love the Edmunds Subaru forums - home of lots of helpful folks & information. However information freaks such as myself often check multiple forums. In addition to Edmunds subaruoutback.org is very helpful, especially lots of good discussions on the 2010 Outback
Amen. These tires good for European cities with short distances but PITA for US.
This is the best shift linkage ever from a Subaru, so our in-house Subie expert tells us, with more positive action and smoother engagement, and yet you still need help from the GPS to find the shift gates when you're going quickly.
...
And shifts were so smoothly executed, unlike in past Subies I've piloted, I forgot what car I was driving.
...
Shifter feels far better (with more positive action and smoother gate engagement) than any previous Subaru.
So they were generally happy with the 6MT? I thought most opinions of it weren't good.
Bob
Have any of you used the bluetooth? Have you had any issues? Did it pair fine with your phones? Is it as easy as using a headset? Any advice you have would be greatly appreciated. Was hoping to get a Palm Pre, but now I am not sure if it will work. Still can't wait til my new car comes in!
That's the main reason I got a FWD model. We still have a Subaru for snow days and my wife works at home, so I'm the only one that really needs to go out.
And if you look at the Nissan Altima which seems to be a disaster in terms of owner feedback, it scores well above average and almost twice as high as the Legacy.
What gives? Is the 2010 Legacy a a problem free or a problem prone vehicle?
Join TrueDelta if you get the chance, they're very innovative and are coming out with new ratings methods soon. I cannot discuss due to a confidentiality agreement, but Subaru ratings there have been very promising.
What is "True Delta"?
I've had two Legacy wagons and found both of them to have been really good in the short term, and over the three years I've had each of them (03, and 07). The only thing I've found is that at around 60000km, I've had to redo the front brakes. I drive a lot in a big city, but still the brakes are not a strong point, and really expensive to fix. Otherwise I've been very pleased with the cars.
I doubt I'll get another one though since they've dropped the Legacy wagon. I don't want the sedan, and certainly don't want the OB. I also think they've cheapen the cars with the kleenex box sized sunroofs, hi/lo seat heaters instead of the dial, no turn signals or folding mirrors and such. I might go for a Forrester, but I don't think it's as solid as the Legacy was. So I'm looking at the competition seriously.
Subaru hasn't left me mucy choice :mad:
cdndriver
How does the RAV4's AWD system compare to that of the Outback?
I can't wait for the new scoring system to go public - I think it will be very well received when it does.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yp1PkXizeQ
I own a Sienna and it was the run-flat tires that made me shy away from AWD, but it's not thought of as a particularly strong system.
I wonder how much stability there would be to a bike rack with a couple of bikes up there.
The idea is clever to have one that folds away, and I'm sure it's their way of discouraging people from buying after market racks, which is what I bet most people do. But it's a clumsy large bulky fixture up there, not sleek like the past ones have been.
I don't know if they hired new engineers there or what, but it just seems to me like they've cheapened so many things on this car. I'm disappointed, and checking out other makers more closely for my lease renewal in two months.
Be sure to also inspect the Forester: Sleeker roof rails, same passenger space, shorter to park and folding side mirrors. Only chintzy items seem to be mouse fur headliner and thin carpet. The 4-speed versus CVT auto trans is a personal call; I drove the CVT Outback and the 4-speed Forester and preferred the Forester. The prices are not very different unless you would choose a stripper version of the Forester which could be a transportation bargain.
http://www.automotive-business-review.com/news/display.aspx?alias=toyota_goodyea- r_sued_over_runflat_tires&
I doubt it's "their way of discouraging people from buying after market racks". I'm not even sure it's cheaper than previous racks or other options. I think someone just thought it was really cool and didn't check it with real rack users.
I will check out the Forester. that may be where I end up if I stick with Subaru. I don't think I'll go with the OB. I'll keep writing them and tell them to bring the Legacy wagon back. :P
Going to another maker has its own set of problems: getting to know those cars, what their pros and cons are...and I don't have that long.
My wife loves the Saab style, but I don't even know how long they'll be around, not to mention the service costs.
:surprise:
http://rackattackportland.wordpress.com/2009/07/02/new-series-cars-of-the-future- -a-rack-installers-opinion-part-1-2010-subaru-outback/
My 2001 Outback and 2004 WRX wagon both had simple, elegant side rails with easily removed crossbars that your could configure any way needed to handle the load. The best part was how easily you simply unbolted the bars with all the accessories in place and stored it, leaving a clean, uncluttered roof. That's just not possible with the 2010 Outback design, and it just looks SO bulky and plasticy too boot.
The aftermarket solution (link above) certainly looks like it SHOULD have come from the factory, but at an additional $1000 it's a pretty steep modification. I'm a huge fan of Subarus, but this latest design is a big FAIL in my opinion.
Brian
I fully agree with you Brian. That new rack was change for the sake of change rather than improvement.