I like getting a little over 20 MPG. Is there any way to get a little more MPG out of these beasts? Maybe a K&N air filter and dual exhuast, or one of those MPG increasing oils.
There are all kinds of gas mileage improvement "gimmick" products out there to waste your money on. They don't work. And, if you mess with you factory air intake system, be careful that you are not sacrificing dirt- trapping ability (efficiency) for higher air flow!
Jeeps do not get good gas mileage. You just have to realize that going in and be willing to live with it.
The best way to get the most gas mileage out of your Jeep is to drive it slowly. The aerodynamics are like those of a brick. Speed increases wind drag, and costs you on gas mileage. I have read that as much as 80% of the engine's power is used to overcome wind drag on a vehicle cruising at highway speeds.
Just wanted to say Welcome to all of the new posters. Don't be afraid to ask questions or just talk about what's happening. Lou I just hope you are willing to give that Jeep up in 15 years. I plan on keeping my Rubi until I can't put her back together again.
Thanks for the feedback on the halftop, I think I am going to wait a little longer to see if bestop is going to put out a new top for the 03's. If not I will just have to do a little fabrication, I am probably going to cut out the rollcage anyway and make a new one. By the way, on the mileage thing, add a throttle body spacer, I have seen improvments by about 3 miles a gallon and a little better throttle response.thanks again-scott
Towards the end of April I will order my new Wrangler. My son came home driving his 95 Wrangler, 4-cyl, 5-speed; and driving it around town is a ball, so much that I decided to get one.
It's funny how some things stay with you. It was around 1979 or so, we were driving across Iowa on I-80. We were cruising at about 80 mph, heading into the setting sun. A Wrangler blew by us, a guy and a girl in it, it had one of those half-tops, the girl had her leg out on the running board, and it had California plates. The girl's hair was blowing in the wind, and the guy had an air of both confidence and unconventionality at the same time. That image projected a sense of freedom, and of fun, Then and there I knew I would have a Wrangler someday.
I will order a Sport, 6-cyl, 5-speed, and everything else. As in much of life, there are some inexplicable rules - why can't I have a Traction-Lock rear axle with a leather wrapped steering wheel? Only Jeep knows.
An increase of 15%-20% in gas mileage with an inexpensive throttle body spacer? Truly amazing!
Seriously, if increases like this were available at such a minimal engineering cost (less than a buck at manufacturing level), DC would already be doing it. Just look at the hoops they already jump through to meet C.A.F.E. requirements.
If you want to see real improvement from the throttle body go with one of these http://www.jeepersandcreepers.com/gear/pages/throttlebody.htm It's a stock throttle body that they bore out. I haven't put one on my Rubi but many people that have admit that it makes a difference. I saw one and it definitely had a little more "get up and go" then the stock one.
As for cutting out the roll cage. There's no need to, the stock one just bolts in. There are several after market cages that you can get. Everything from bolt ins that reinforce the front of the cage to complete replacement cages.
I've got 950 miles on my new Rubicon. Averaging 13 to 14 MPG. But that is in Minnesota, still cold and I got the Automatic this time. My other wranglers got 18-21 (6 cyl) and 5 spds.
An increase of 15%-20% in gas mileage with an inexpensive throttle body spacer? Truly amazing!
Are you serious about that or are you being sarcastic. Because 15 to 20% increase would be around 20 to 22 miles city, and 25 to 27 highway. Well I am just guestimating those numbers, but that would be sweet.
My personal experience with a Poweraid TBS is that it is mostly snake oil. I did notice a slightly better throttle resonse with it installed, but mileage was completely unchanged. It also introduces a whistle at certain throttle positions while driving. I'll make someone a great doeal on it :-)!!!
I do not have any experience with a bored out throttle body, but doubt there would be any significant gains in mileage. With modern engines, many times the ECU will adjust to intake changes, reducing or even negating any perceived gains within a short time span after the changes are introduced.
Anyone that is concerned with MPG, the Wrangler may not be the vehicle for you. I get a consistant 15.5 today, but was only getting about 17 in stock form. I have a relatively heavy foot, but never got more than high teens, even with sedated driving. The only time this is really a pain is on road trips. Stopping every 250-275 miles can be a drag but is a good excuse to stretch your legs.
Did you read all my post, or the one (#12722) that I was replying to?
To reiterate, IMHO, throttle body spacers, bored out throttle bodies, spiral grooved throttle bodies etc., etc., are pure snake oil on a fuel injected Wrangler. They can however, have a place on carburetted engines at WOT, i.e. at the dragstrip and racetrack.
Again, if such amazing increases could be obtained with such inexpensive engineering, DC would already be doing it.
Welcome to the board to all the new posters..Keep us informed on those JEEPS. I will be taking the hard-top of tazz next week. Its getting jeep weather here. Hey TOM.. sorry about those wildcats.. looks like ALABAMA will be the new basketball state UAB & Bama both in sweet 16!! KEEP JEEPIN BAMA!
Had to get some work done on the Jeep today. Tomorrow is the 3 year anniversary which ends DC picking up the cost on repairs... My rear main seal started a small leak about 8 months ago, but I figured I'd wait until the warranty was almost up to have them fix it since it may buy me a bit more time before it goes again. While they had it, I asked them to check out everything else to see if they could find any hidden problems. Turned out they found a bad O2 sensor and replaced that as well. Free to me, but the cost back to DC was listed as $260 on the rear main seal and $83 for the O2 sensor. This is at a relatively small dealership that has pretty reasonable labor rates, but may give a reference if anyone else needs to have similar work done. I was pleasantly surprised they had everything done by 1:30 this afternoon. Back home in the garage and ready to go.
Good to hear a story of things going the way that they should.
Ironically, it's often the small 'mom & pop' dealer that provides the after sales experience we all hope for. Despite the surveys, the advertising, the staff training, and of course the money spent on the expensive sign out front, a lot of the 'all singing, all dancing' Five Star Dealers fall way short in that respect.
I read a post somewhere, I can’t remember where, that said something along the lines that tube bumpers don’t hold up. I bought steel tube bumpers for Ellie’Mae because someone I know has them on his CJ, and they have held up very well. He was even rear ended by a Lexus. The Lexus had several thousands of dollars of damage and his CJ had a scratch on its bumper, not requiring repair. Considering what he has done with his CJ, including rolling it about a dozen times, I believe the steel tube bumpers are a great value.
I've heard the same story, but have no evidence to back it up. After seeing some of the offroading while I was with Tom at TB, the flatter ones are easier to pound back into shape after scraping the rocks.
I didn't expect to have this much of a response to the ole' throttle body spacer thing. I guess it could be placed in the same category as that cheezy tornado quimck. The obvious point is that you do not buy a wrangler for gas milage. It does offer slightly better throttle response and gas mileage for me. By the way Tony, I guess I should have not used cut out as my choice of words when it came to my roll cage. If you want to check out a cool web site check out poisonedsyder.com, very cool stuff and very cool roll cages.-scott
I was looking more into the Toys by Troy bolt in cages. They use the entire stock cage and add front supports like the PSC and cross bars. Very effective and not nearly the same amount of work. PSC is incredible quality though.
Check out my buddies web site, asshogger.com. They do some amazing work and located in St. Louis. There web site isn't as cool as poisoned spyder's web site but they meet and exceed poisoned spyder's work. -scott
Does anyone know of a site or OEM parts page that I can find the body colored fender flares (like the Saharra)? I found one buy they did not have for the Sienna Pearl Coat finish.
I hope I don't have to go through the Jeep Parts department. Thanks
Ok..i need some help. My engine light is on AGAIN. this makes the 4th or 5th time this light has came on. I make the trip to my dealer wait ALL day for them to turn it off.. then like clockwork 5 months later its on again. Am I doing something wrong? I know they have said to make sure the Gas cap is on good. But im sure i am. Any suggestions? GO BAMA!! ELITE 8!! KEEP JEEPIN!! BT
When that light comes on it also sets a code in the computer, which indicates the cause of the problem.
Check your paperwork, or contact the dealer, to see if this is a recurring problem or a variety of different problems. The dealer won't have just turned off the light, they will have fixed the cause of it as well.
Either way, it should provide an indication of what you need to do to prevent it happening again.
Mac, isn't it very often something about the emissions system when the light comes on? One of the very most common would be a problem with the EVAP system, which could mean a leak in a hose or something that is part of the system to capture and recirculate fumes. Think this one would be indicated too, if the gas cap weren't on good.
Guess you are close to runing out of warranty, Bama? I would want it fixed right before the warranty expires, if I were you.
Yup, it's always about an emission problem. However, the evap sys isn't the only thing that can cause it. Misfiring plugs or injectors will trigger it too, or anything that causes the O2 sensor to read out of spec. However, a loose gas cap or a pinched hose are probably the main causes.
I'll have to check the Jeep FSM, but on other vehicles we have, the check engine light is triggered by a certain number of "incidents" or occurences of the out of spec condition. If it takes 3 consecutive starts or running conditions to engage the light, the system may clear if it throws a code twice and then doesn't occur on the third run. Starts over, etc. I there is also a diagnostic sequence of turning the key that will display the codes in the odometer. I'll see if I can find it and post a link.
Here's a quote from the FSM that details what twylie was saying.
.......If any of these monitors detect a problem affecting vehicle emissions, the Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL) will be illuminated. These monitors generate Diagnostic Trouble Codes that can be displayed with the MIL or a scan tool. The following is a list of the system monitors: ² Misfire Monitor ² Fuel System Monitor ² Oxygen Sensor Monitor ² Oxygen Sensor Heater Monitor ² Catalyst Monitor ² Leak Detection Pump Monitor (if equipped) All these system monitors require two consecutive TRIPS with the malfunction present to set a fault. Refer to the appropriate Powertrain Diagnostics Procedures manual for diagnostic procedures.......
TRIP DEFINITION The term “Trip” has different meanings depending on what the circumstances are. If the MIL (Malfunction Indicator Lamp) is OFF, a Trip is defined as when the Oxygen Sensor Monitor and the Catalyst Monitor have been completed in the same drive cycle. When any Emission DTC is set, the MIL on the dash is turned ON. When the MIL is ON, it takes 3 good trips to turn the MIL OFF. In this case, it depends on what type of DTC is set to know what a “Trip” is. For the Fuel Monitor or Mis-Fire Monitor (continuous monitor), the vehicle must be operated in the “Similar Condition Window” for a specified amount of time to be considered a Good Trip. If a Non-Contiuous OBDII Monitor fails twice in a row and turns ON the MIL, re-running that monitor which previously failed, on the next start-up and passing the monitor, is considered to be a Good Trip. These will include the following: ² Oxygen Sensor ² Catalyst Monitor ² Purge Flow Monitor ² Leak Detection Pump Monitor (if equipped) ² EGR Monitor (if equipped) ² Oxygen Sensor Heater Monitor If any other Emission DTC is set (not an OBDII Monitor), a Good Trip is considered to be when the Oxygen Sensor Monitor and Catalyst Monitor have been completed; or 2 Minutes of engine run time if the Oxygen Sensor Monitor or Catalyst Monitor have been stopped from running. It can take up to 2 Failures in a row to turn on the MIL. After the MIL is ON, it takes 3 Good Trips to turn the MIL OFF. After the MIL is OFF, the PCM will self-erase the DTC after 40 Warm-up cycles. A Warm-up cycle is counted when the ECT (Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor) has crossed 160°F and has risen by at least 40°F since the engine has been started..........
To summarize, it takes two consecutive starts with something 'gone bad' to set the light, and three consecutive starts after it's been corrected to turn the light off, then forty consecutive 'good' starts to erase the fault code from the computer's memory.
Of course, if one has the appropriate scan tool the resets can be done at will.
Oh, and turning the key to the 'ON' (not START) position three consecutive times within five seconds will display any codes on the odometer. This works for some, but not all, model years.
Thanks for taking the time to pull out the details from the FSM. Also, the key on 3 times in 5 seconds was exactly waht I remembered for showing codes!
Actron scanners AutoZone sells. I know it's not as precise or comprehensive as the more expensive models, but at least it does point me in the right direction. A decent wiring diagram, a volt/ohm meter and some basic troubleshooting skills are all you need to pinpoint most problems. Oh, and a few hours to kill.
These pics were actually from today's run in Buttpucker, and I had a lot more trouble getting through there today than I did yesterday.
You can see the problem. The wall of the gully on the drivers side is just too straight up and down for any side bite of the tires. What I had to do was get the left rear tire over more to the left (to the right from the perspective of the photographer). I had to do that to get the rear differential from hanging on the hump in the floor of the gully.
Congrats - that's quite the gulch! I suspect I'd chicken out with taking Buffy down that anytime soon... now, give me a few years and maybe, just maybe! Pretty cool pics though. :-)
Thanx for all the help guys. I didnt drive TAZZ on sunday. This morning went to work & the light didnt come on. I think it has a mind of its own. Getting close to end of warrenty. Got 27,500 on TAZZ now. June 14th will be 3 years too. TOM- Looking good out there man. One day I will get to ride with ya. KEEP JEEPIN BAMA!
I love Steve's suggestion about bringing a bucket of gravel each time you try it. Does that mean that if I don't re-gravel my driveway for a few more years, I could have a 4x4 trail in front of my house? Of course, my driveway is level and it rarely gets muddy around here, so I guess it would take generations to wear down to what BP looks like.
Paul - did you ever make it over to Hungry Valley? I haven't been there in a while - in fact, my poor Noble Black Steed is just sitting there, looking reproachfully at me - we took the Taco to NorCal this past weekend, and it looks like we'll take it to Vegas this weekend. Maybe I'll talk my other half into driving it to work one day this week - I don't think it is a good idea to let a vehicle sit without starting it for 3 weeks, is it?
Well gang, I'm getting ready for the annual trek to the Easter Jeep Safarie in Moab, Ut. This year will be the 38th annual. If you have never seen it,it's awesome!! Last weekend we put on the Warn front diff skid plate and the Trilby gas tank skid. Got the CB installed and ready. I'm going with 2 other Jeeps, 1 is an older CJ. The other is a TJ set up similar to mine. It should be a blast. I can't wait. We will drive over Tuesday the 6th and return the 10th.We are going to camp the first two nights and get a motel for the last two nights. If anyone else from this board is going let me know and maybe we can get together for a beverage.
Comments
Anybody know what could help?
Steve, Host
Jeeps do not get good gas mileage. You just have to realize that going in and be willing to live with it.
The best way to get the most gas mileage out of your Jeep is to drive it slowly. The aerodynamics are like those of a brick. Speed increases wind drag, and costs you on gas mileage. I have read that as much as 80% of the engine's power is used to overcome wind drag on a vehicle cruising at highway speeds.
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
Tony
Tony
It's funny how some things stay with you. It was around 1979 or so, we were driving across Iowa on I-80. We were cruising at about 80 mph, heading into the setting sun. A Wrangler blew by us, a guy and a girl in it, it had one of those half-tops, the girl had her leg out on the running board, and it had California plates. The girl's hair was blowing in the wind, and the guy had an air of both confidence and unconventionality at the same time. That image projected a sense of freedom, and of fun, Then and there I knew I would have a Wrangler someday.
I will order a Sport, 6-cyl, 5-speed, and everything else. As in much of life, there are some inexplicable rules - why can't I have a Traction-Lock rear axle with a leather wrapped steering wheel? Only Jeep knows.
Seriously, if increases like this were available at such a minimal engineering cost (less than a buck at manufacturing level), DC would already be doing it. Just look at the hoops they already jump through to meet C.A.F.E. requirements.
As for cutting out the roll cage. There's no need to, the stock one just bolts in. There are several after market cages that you can get. Everything from bolt ins that reinforce the front of the cage to complete replacement cages.
Tony
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
Are you serious about that or are you being sarcastic. Because 15 to 20% increase would be around 20 to 22 miles city, and 25 to 27 highway. Well I am just guestimating those numbers, but that would be sweet.
I do not have any experience with a bored out throttle body, but doubt there would be any significant gains in mileage. With modern engines, many times the ECU will adjust to intake changes, reducing or even negating any perceived gains within a short time span after the changes are introduced.
Anyone that is concerned with MPG, the Wrangler may not be the vehicle for you. I get a consistant 15.5 today, but was only getting about 17 in stock form. I have a relatively heavy foot, but never got more than high teens, even with sedated driving. The only time this is really a pain is on road trips. Stopping every 250-275 miles can be a drag but is a good excuse to stretch your legs.
-twylie
To reiterate, IMHO, throttle body spacers, bored out throttle bodies, spiral grooved throttle bodies etc., etc., are pure snake oil on a fuel injected Wrangler. They can however, have a place on carburetted engines at WOT, i.e. at the dragstrip and racetrack.
Again, if such amazing increases could be obtained with such inexpensive engineering, DC would already be doing it.
-twylie
Ironically, it's often the small 'mom & pop' dealer that provides the after sales experience we all hope for. Despite the surveys, the advertising, the staff training, and of course the money spent on the expensive sign out front, a lot of the 'all singing, all dancing' Five Star Dealers fall way short in that respect.
-Paul
Steve, Host
Tony
I hope I don't have to go through the Jeep Parts department. Thanks
(Sometimes I kill me.)
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
BTW: How's the "no smoking" thing going? Still smoke free I hope.
This past Wednesday night marked twelve weeks on the smokin' thang. Still on the wagon, but barely holdin' on at times.
When we wheelin' again????? This Saturday?
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
Check your paperwork, or contact the dealer, to see if this is a recurring problem or a variety of different problems. The dealer won't have just turned off the light, they will have fixed the cause of it as well.
Either way, it should provide an indication of what you need to do to prevent it happening again.
Guess you are close to runing out of warranty, Bama? I would want it fixed right before the warranty expires, if I were you.
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
I know I'll be glad when things get back to normal so I can join you guys again!
BTW: Now the starter has gone out on the Jeep.
-twylie
.......If any of these monitors detect a problem affecting
vehicle emissions, the Malfunction Indicator Lamp
(MIL) will be illuminated. These monitors generate
Diagnostic Trouble Codes that can be displayed with
the MIL or a scan tool.
The following is a list of the system monitors:
² Misfire Monitor
² Fuel System Monitor
² Oxygen Sensor Monitor
² Oxygen Sensor Heater Monitor
² Catalyst Monitor
² Leak Detection Pump Monitor (if equipped)
All these system monitors require two consecutive TRIPS with the malfunction present to set a fault.
Refer to the appropriate Powertrain Diagnostics
Procedures manual for diagnostic procedures.......
TRIP DEFINITION
The term “Trip” has different meanings depending
on what the circumstances are. If the MIL (Malfunction
Indicator Lamp) is OFF, a Trip is defined as
when the Oxygen Sensor Monitor and the Catalyst
Monitor have been completed in the same drive cycle.
When any Emission DTC is set, the MIL on the
dash is turned ON. When the MIL is ON, it takes 3
good trips to turn the MIL OFF. In this case, it
depends on what type of DTC is set to know what a
“Trip” is.
For the Fuel Monitor or Mis-Fire Monitor (continuous
monitor), the vehicle must be operated in the
“Similar Condition Window” for a specified amount of
time to be considered a Good Trip.
If a Non-Contiuous OBDII Monitor fails twice in a
row and turns ON the MIL, re-running that monitor
which previously failed, on the next start-up and
passing the monitor, is considered to be a Good Trip.
These will include the following:
² Oxygen Sensor
² Catalyst Monitor
² Purge Flow Monitor
² Leak Detection Pump Monitor (if equipped)
² EGR Monitor (if equipped)
² Oxygen Sensor Heater Monitor
If any other Emission DTC is set (not an OBDII
Monitor), a Good Trip is considered to be when the
Oxygen Sensor Monitor and Catalyst Monitor have
been completed; or 2 Minutes of engine run time if
the Oxygen Sensor Monitor or Catalyst Monitor have
been stopped from running.
It can take up to 2 Failures in a row to turn on the
MIL. After the MIL is ON, it takes 3 Good Trips to
turn the MIL OFF. After the MIL is OFF, the PCM
will self-erase the DTC after 40 Warm-up cycles. A
Warm-up cycle is counted when the ECT (Engine
Coolant Temperature Sensor) has crossed 160°F and
has risen by at least 40°F since the engine has been started..........
To summarize, it takes two consecutive starts with something 'gone bad' to set the light, and three consecutive starts after it's been corrected to turn the light off, then forty consecutive 'good' starts to erase the fault code from the computer's memory.
Of course, if one has the appropriate scan tool the resets can be done at will.
Oh, and turning the key to the 'ON' (not START) position three consecutive times within five seconds will display any codes on the odometer. This works for some, but not all, model years.
-twylie
Yeeeeeeeeeeeeehawwwwwwwwwww!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I did it, I did it, I did it!!!!
That was the fourth attempt, and that was yesterday. I ran it again today, but had a lot harder time.
I will post some pics as soon as I get them hosted somewhere "acceptable." I think I have some room on my free webspace from Earthlink.
I already have pics in "you know where," but I ain't allowed to post links. Oh, by the way, Gill's mom died today.
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
These pics were actually from today's run in Buttpucker, and I had a lot more trouble getting through there today than I did yesterday.
You can see the problem. The wall of the gully on the drivers side is just too straight up and down for any side bite of the tires. What I had to do was get the left rear tire over more to the left (to the right from the perspective of the photographer). I had to do that to get the rear differential from hanging on the hump in the floor of the gully.
Thanks, Steve.
You know, if you and your buds would just take a few buckets of gravel in every time you go to the Gulch, you'd have those ruts filled in no time ;-)
Steve, Host
tidester, host
It was a BLAST! Wish you guys could come ride with me sometime like Paul did.
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
Andrew
Looked a lot drier there than when I was there. I leave for Huntsville tomorrow and fly back home Thursday night or I'd join ya again.
-Paul
Paul - did you ever make it over to Hungry Valley? I haven't been there in a while - in fact, my poor Noble Black Steed is just sitting there, looking reproachfully at me - we took the Taco to NorCal this past weekend, and it looks like we'll take it to Vegas this weekend. Maybe I'll talk my other half into driving it to work one day this week - I don't think it is a good idea to let a vehicle sit without starting it for 3 weeks, is it?
So yes, send him to work in it, but don't just start it for five minutes because it's sat for three weeks.
Last weekend we put on the Warn front diff skid plate and the Trilby gas tank skid. Got the CB installed and ready.
I'm going with 2 other Jeeps, 1 is an older CJ. The other is a TJ set up similar to mine.
It should be a blast. I can't wait. We will drive over Tuesday the 6th and return the 10th.We are going to camp the first two nights and get a motel for the last two nights.
If anyone else from this board is going let me know and maybe we can get together for a beverage.
dewars
Would that be some kind of hat?
:--)