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And what would that accomplish? I like my Expedition just the way it is. An Ecoboost v6 or better yet 4-5L diesel option would be perfect. I don't want it any smaller. If I wanted something smaller, I'd buy the current Explorer or something like it.
Yeah, I'm sure $70+k Explorers that only seat 5 that will get at most a whopping increase of 1-3mpg will just fly off the lots.
After Plump Feb, Automakers Party Like It's 1999 (AutoObserver)
I guess I harp on Ford because I've always been a fan and just expect more.
Ford clearly knows how to build a DFI, Direct Fuel Injection, engine as that's one of the two main features of the "EcoBoost" moniker. So why are we stuck with a N/A V6 with SFI when DFI would allow it to have a 12:1 compression ratio and therefore not seen a gas-guzzler in comparison.
It's bad enough that the "EcoBoost" engine series runs most of the time in Gas-guzzling detuned/derated mode but why must the N/A V6 also suffer..?
Ford has the design and manufacturing capability to builb N/A DFI engines so why not put it to use across the board...?
Factory in Mississippi..?
Ford says that they want to populate 80% of their fleet with the EcoBoost engine within the next 2-3 years. And charge a $4000 to $7,000 premium for same...?
Good luck with that...!
Well, considering the few competing vehicles that are similar in size weight that do use DFI, the difference in FE is negligible.
Use the base Cayenne for example. It's similar in size and weight and power to the Explorer. It uses a 300hp DI 3.6 v6. The Explorer uses a 290hp 3.5 v6 with SFI.
The Cayenne has an 8speed trans, weighs 4400lbs and is 191" long. The Explorer weighs over 4,700lbs, is a 197" long, has a 6speed trans and the fuel economy for the Explorer is 17/23 vs 16/23 for the Porsche.
I ask how is one considered a gas guzzler and the other not?
While I'm all for the latest and greatest technologies that improve both efficiency and performance, I don't see DI being the silver bullet you claim it to be. Sure it has the potential to improve FE. But it's certainly not enough alone to make a gas guzzler a fuel sipper. Not going to happen w/o other types of changes.
Good luck with that...!
Where do you get your info. According to Ford's website. Going from a 3.7v6 to an Ecoboost v6 from the 5.0 v8 can be as little at $1,500 depending on the config of the truck.
But yeah, if you look up a base regular cab, short bed XL trim f150 with the base v6 and want to get the Ecoboost it will cost $4,300, but that also means going to an 8' bed.
If Ford decides to charge $4k plus to go the an Ecoboost 4cyl from the v6 in the Explorer, they simply won't sell many.
Local dealer had 7 a couple of weeks ago, now down to 2.
Those 2 are a Limited for 48k+ and an XLT 39k, no moonroof.
They sold their last 2010 which I sort of had my eye on.
msrp was 43k+
Compare the Cadillac DFI V6 with the non DFI V6.
I have. In the CTS, the DI 3.6 gets a whopping 1 mpg increase on the highway and the same city rating versus a non DI 3.6. It does provide about 50 more HP.
Going down to GM's 3.0 DI v6 gets the same mileage as the DI 3.6.
I've yet to see an example where a DI alone gets anywhere near a 20% increase in fuel economy.
The DI 3.0 in the Cadillac SRX AWD gets the same mileage as the "gas guzzling" Explorer w/o DI in AWD form has 265hp vs 290 in the Explorer and weighs 400lbs less.
What am I missing here?
Bias.
What you get is no where near a 20% increase in fuel economy that I've seen.
Why am I doing all of the work;) But I'll bite one last time.
Okay, I'll do it your way. The closest example I can find would be to compare a Honda Accord with a Hyundai Sonata. They both use 4 cylinder engines displacing 2.4L. As many know, the Hyundai uses DI and produces 198hp and 184 ft-lbs of torque.
The Accord's 2.4L 4 cylinder is not direct injected and produces 190HP and 162 ft-lbs of torque. So the Hyundai produces a little more power. As for FE the Accord has a 5speed auto and the Hyundai uses a 6 speed. The Accord appears to weigh a 100lbs or so more than the Sonata. That aside, the FE is:
Sonata 22/35
Accord 23/34.
Using your logic, the Sonata should be getting 26/42.
And.. I'd like to hear about the actual vehicle...
Thanks!
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My name is Seni from Ford Customer Service. I see that you are having a hard time finding an Explorer. We would be happy to find a dealer near you that has one available. Please feel free to call the Customer Relationship Center at 800-392-3673 at your convenience. We are unfortunately unable to address your concern on a public forum.
Kind regards,
Seni
Ford Customer Service Division
I'm looking for an SUV as my next vehicle. I still love my 2001 Honda Prelude Type SH that just hit 138,000 miles on my way home from work last night. I need something with more space (I've got a house & 2 boys now), 3 rows of seats, and 4 wheel drive.
I'm really just in the research stages right now & am probably not going to buy anything until the end of next summer. The 3 trucks I'm most interested in are the Ford Explorer, Dodge Durango, & Honda Pilot.
I think the Pilot is going to be redesigned sometime in the near future, but I like the fact that it is 1st and foremost a Honda. I like the boxy shape, flat folding floor, & the fact that the 3rd row has LATCHes for car seats. The EX-L with Navigation (4WD) is priced just right.
The Explorer is beautiful as far as trucks/SUVs go. Has a gorgeous interior & a loaded XLT has all the gadgets I want (Except HID headlights).
The Durango is very manly. The optional HEMI V8 must rock. The interior is finished well & I love all the chrome on the Citiadel Model (especially those 20" Chrome Wheels). Unfortunately the Durango Citadel is priced close to $50,000 which is out of my league.
My favorite SUV out right now is the 2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee. I'd buy one in a heartbeat except that it doesn't have 3 rows of seats.
Looking forward to lurking for a while & seeing how people like their new 2011 Explorers.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
We've also looked at the Acadia - very nice but pricey and the Mazda CX9 -felt dated inside. We're also going to check out the Veracruz.
Based on reading your post and my own other thoughts, I am thinking I probably won't buy one.
My kids are college age, so it probably makes more sense to keep my '02 going for a while.
The new one is close to the size of an Expedition. Had one of those and didn't really like driving it on a daily basis.
The 3 row feature is great. Originally each kid had their own row.
As they grew up, they were more willing to sit in the same row.
My favorite was them both sitting in the 3rd row seat and folding up the 2nd row seats so they could stretch their legs straight out.
My wife had 2 Explorers, An Expedition and an Aviator before going to the Edge 2 years ago. Night and day.
At least test drive the Edge and Explorer before you decide.
Ford's sad experience with this type of F/awd system, Escape, Mariner, does not bode well for use in the must heavier Explorer. For at least ten years now Ford has been experimenting with various fixes, PATCHES, to alleviate the premature failures in those drivelines.
And the "beat" goes on....
To that end they have added cooling to the new Explorer's PTO assembly and maybe even the rear clutch/diffl assembly.
Even Honda (Ridgeline), with their version of a pre-emptive F/awd system, the VTM-4 system, has had its share of problems with driveline component failures. In their case the weakest link seems to have been the torque converter lock-up clutch. Honda switched to the SH-AWD system for the Ridgeline and quite possibly revised the control firmware to lower the stress/HEAT on the various driveline components.
If the new Explorer's driveline components begin to fail that will undoubtedly be Ford's first move for a "fielded" fleet fix, a reflash to lower the F/awd functionality.
Personally my fix would be to fully disable the rear clutch coupling EXCEPT in KNOWN low traction conditions. In low traction conditions individual wheelslip/spin would alleviate the driveline stress/HEAT from driveline windup and/or tire "scrubbing".
I did drive an Edge for about a week once, and I liked it.
My issue is with the size of the Explorer. For me, I realized it's a bigger vehicle than I want as a daily driver.
I've been searching local inventory (central Maine) for about four weeks now, and there are only four Explorers available.......... I've contacted Ford to ask about inventory. I've also asked the dealers, who of course said "they just fly off the lot"; of course these same four vehicles haven't flown anywhere.
Is there a production slowdown?
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
This is Seni with Ford Customer Service. Since you are only in the research stages, I would like to let you know that the 2012 Explorer can be expected late summer. The 2012 Explorer will feature improved fuel economy over the 3.5L V6. We are very excited about this Explorer and again expect that it will be available late summer 2011. When you begin the shopping stage, please be sure to visit www.Ford.com/Incentives, at your convenience, for incentives in your area.
Seni
Ford Customer Service Division
Wow, the 2011 Explorer isn't even dry behind the ears and you're already pedaling the 2012...?
Does that mean something went awry with the 2011..?
Does that mean the upcoming 2012 Explorer will getting a more fuel efficient N/A V6 with DFI..? With the performance gain of DFI you could even downsize the engine displacementvolume to get even better FE while still holding the HP/torque at the current V6 level.
Or are you still in the mode of foisting off the DETUNED/DERATED GAS-GUZZING GASHOGISH EcoBoost (TwinForce) I4 as being environmentally conscious and fuel efficient...??
With gas prices headed north of $4 I would think you would begin reconsidering marketing to the "boy-racer" mentality types as that market is getting smaller by the moment.
Supply fewer fully optioned out explorer's and people will buy not wanting to wait for their custom order.
seeing 1-2 in AUstin, mostly optioned out.
Anyway, if I had my way, I'd be hauling my family in an 84-85 Olds Custom Cruiser wagon with the diesel V8 and 200-4R transmission. 30+mpg and 8 seat belts. Governors and injector pumps were faultless by then.
But the wife says no minivans, no station wagons, and most especially nothing with woodgrain.
So the Explorer gets the best mileage of any vehicle that seats seven and still has primarily US content. 85% according to this month's issue of C&D. Sadly the outgoing 2010 Explorer was 90% US content. But 85% is better than every other SUV available today. Talk about setting the curve!!!
I sincerely hope not...
But it is the current next step...or one of....
I'm voting for SuperCharging as the new step.
Have you not noted that diesel is now "value-priced"...?
Every little bit helps...?
3.6L V6 SFI 17/26 263HP
3.6L V6 DFI 18/26 304HP
Simple math indicates the 3.6L DFI engine could be reduced in displacement volume by >15% and still match the HP of the non-DFI engine.
15% savings at the gas pump...?
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
Even less the F/awd system weight the new Ford Explorer is still simply to big and heavy for a 4 banger, and certainly not one running in detuned/derated mode.
So I suspect that configuration will never see the light of day in a dealer's showroom.
Nice looking, the Jeep, but Chrysler has about 5th from the BOTTOM quality in the new JD Power initial quality list. Ford is close to the top. I wouldn't chance a Jeep. Just my opinion.
Problem is the dealer does not know how far it should open either. No explores on the lot to compare and no service manual (?!).
Anybody have a moonroof ? Does it open far enough to see out of or can you stick your hand out of it?
All I get is a little more road noise and no air.
-Martin
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
Only had it for 30 days and 3 days of service already. So much for buying my first 1st Ford
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bn0t1J-haf4
It doesnt open very far when tilting - 6:15 into the video
I only see a little crack of daylight in the corner
Not the best way to "restart" the Ford Explorer market...
Price it in the class of the Lexus SUV but it still says....
FORD
Look at how Lexus "started" with the under-market-priced LS400....