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Hey, I'm not the world's best car trader, but I sure used to get a LOT of practice!
You can read about my buying experience here...
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~tsjay51/thelma.html
You will see how there was $3400 difference from the worst deal to the best deal among the three closest Jeep dealers to me! I was going to factory order exactly the same Jeep at each place, and, of course, my trade-in vehicle was exactly the same one at each place. We have apples to apples to apples here!
Arm yourself with knowledge before you even begin shopping! Don't let the dealer talk "sticker," just make him talk price in relation to INVOICE. Find out how close other people's deals have been to invoice. Know what is a reasonable amount to expect to pay in relation to invoice.
You can get the invoice price for a Jeep equipped exactly as you want it right here in Edmunds, but be warned that the true invoice cost to the dealer will be higher than Edmunds will list. There are advertising fees that Edmunds does NOT include when they give invoice price. These are legitimate fees that the dealer has to pay, and they are line item costs listed on the real invoice. There is a national ad fee and a regional ad fee, and they totalled somewhere close to $300 on my Thelma Jane, if I remember correctly. The regional ad fee is higher in highly populated areas, since air time on TV and radio is higher there.
Don't let them start trying to deal with you on your trade-in until you have first gotten their best price on the new vehicle. They will confuse you by claiming to be allowing you so much on the trade-in that they cannot come down on the new vehicle, or they will tell you that they have cut so much off the new one that they cannot come up any more on your trade-in allowance.
Get the best deal on a no trade-in basis first. IT's OK to tell them that you don't want to discuss trade-in until you have gotten their best deal on the new vehicle. That's just part of YOU BEING IN CONTROL instead of THEM!
Be realistic about your trade-in when the time comes for working on trade-in allowance. If you have done a good job negotiating the price of the new vehicle, then the dealer is only making a few hundred bucks on it. He needs to get your trade-in vehicle at a price that allows him to make a profit on it. Remember, if he wanted a vehicle like yours on his lot, he could go to an auction and get one for wholesale price.
Find out what average trade-in value is for your vehicle, and be fair in what you give it for a rating on its condition, since this makes a big difference in its value. If you have held the dealer's feet to the fire on the new vehicle, then don't be ridiculous on what you expect him to give you for trade-in. You always have the option of selling it yourself, and you will always get more for it that way, but it can be a REAL hassle trying to sell one!
Good luck, and keep us posted!
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
http://autoshow.edmunds.com/news/autoshow/articles/103626/page012- .html?tid=edmunds.e.autoshow..leftnav.13.*
I copied this from a post in the Gladiator forum.
Pretty cool stuff. The "backseat/bench folds down to create a longer truck bed.
I'd love to see this truck built.
-Dan
Steve, Host
I thought about just removing the carpet. However I went to Home Depot and got a moving blanket and try to keep the dogs on that. Some of that carpet powder made for removing smells helps from time to time. And finally I made a manly potpourri of sagebrush wrapped in cheesecloth and stuck it by the heater vent to overwhelm the dog smell.
Anyway, I am looking for a little info:
My wife asked me if the height of the windshield would be a problem for me seeing out as 1. this would be my daily driver and weekend player (yea!!!), 2. I am 6'3", and 3. have never owned a Jeep only ridden in two CJ-5's a few times.
Today we stopped at our local dealer who was closed, and looked at their only TJ-L, an '04, and my wife thought the top of the windshield where the visors fold up would be my primary field of view...any thoughts?
I plan on getting the stick, and was wondering what people thought of the new 6 spd...
Also the 2005 brochure shows and mentions only medium grey or body color fender flares - what happened to black? Is it truly not an option?
Finally, I have researched a few buying options but was looking for feedback on what online sites people might recommend - specifically has anyone used the site that starts with jeep and ends with warehouse? If so does anyone know delivery charges to the east coast?
Anyway, I will keep you posted as I continue my journey towards my first Jeep (I can hardly wait)!
Thanks!
I understand that the grey was so disliked that they have gone back to offering the black.
I can't really help you with on-line sights. When I bought my Unlimited, I used Edmund's email to dealers option and then bought from the first one that offered me what I wanted to pay. It worked really well.
Praise GAWD! The BLACK IS BACK! I believe that starting December 1, 2004, they went back to black tops and flares. I'm not sure of that date, but I AM sure that Jeeps are being built with black flares and tops again. I DID NOT care for the grey AT ALL.
Good luck, Jbone, and ask all the questions you want to. Keep us posted on your progress. We're all rootin' for you to get a great Jeep and a great deal on it!
You might want to take advantage of the time before your actual purchase to have any dental work that you might need taken care of. At least get your teeth cleaned, BECAUSE EVERY TIME YOU GET BEHIND THE WHEEL OF THAT JEEP, YOU ARE GONNA SMILE FROM EAR TO EAR!!!!!!!!! Of course that smile returns during your day at work, when your mind drifts back to that Jeep. Your co-workers will think you are awfully happy in your work all of a sudden.
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
http://www.jeep.com/autoshow/gladiator/gallery.html
-Dan
Last I heard, today is the big day, right?
POST PICS! And, tell us all about your first impressions of that Rubicon Unlimited!
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
-Dan
in what order should I upgrade things?
p.s. noticed a lot of cb's on rigs, should i buy one? where should i install it?
What you do to your Jeep depends on what kind of use it will see. Do you plan to off road that baby?
CB's are essential when you go out with a group on the trails. You have to be able to communicate with the other Jeeps.
Depending on the type of trails you will run, you may not really need to do any modifications. Stock Jeeps are amazingly capable.
A winch is always a good investment, since it can get you out of some jams.
Just take it slow, do some wheelin' stock, if you can find some guys to wheel with. Don't go out alone.
Maybe my little website would help ya.
http://home.earthlink.net/~tsjay49/
Read lots of old posts, and feel free to ask all the questions you want to.
CONGRATULATIONS ON THAT JEEP!!!! There ain't nothin' like 'em!
Is this your first short wheel base Jeep?
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
I also have a Columbia Edition (2004) which I bought last September. It's red with the graphite flares and matching wheels, soft top and half doors.
I haven't done much to mine but I think some of them are a good start for anyone. First I bought a set of tow hooks for the front. Then I added a receiver hitch to the back and put a rear tow hook in it. I also bought a recovery strap. That way if I need to be pulled out of anything or if I can help pull someone else out of something, then I'll be prepared.
I also bought some little things like locking lug nuts, a tire deflator, a receiver hitch bike rack. Your's probably came with locking lug nuts but I bought mine used and they had been removed.
Then there's the roof rack. That was a real pain to install but mostly because of mistakes I made and bad luck. I've posted lots of stuff about that experience previously so you can read about my pain if you want to.
We're supposed to get a dusting of snow today which shouldn't pose any problems directly. It will just make everyone else drive like there's a foot of snow on the road. They're calling for snow again this weekend. Maybe that will be enough to play in. Only time will tell.
Enjoy your new Jeep and keep us posted on what you decide to do to it, if anything.
Yours in Jeep Coolness,
Dave
;--)
Thanks for your help.
I would ask the parts guy at your local jeep dealer.
Sorry I could not offer any useful help.
Glen
I know that at some point (03, I believe) they went to a plastic header over the windshield. This could effect the way a hard top would fit, but I don't know if it did or not?
Can someone help out beachbum?
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
jeff
If you bought a soft top from a dealer, then you should not need any kind of header, but you will need the hardware for attaching it in back (the pieces that connect to the vertical portion of your sport cage). It should have that, unless you already have it.
Hope this helps.
-Paul
thanks for the info!!
jts
i had a sahara 01' for 3 months (used) when my sis crashed it into a tree :-( but now i got a new baby so i guess i should thank her :-)
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Share your vehicle reviews
-Paul
We had some ice here (like much of the country, I guess) recently. Anyway, almost made it to work before I hit a serious patch on a curve (had just popped out of 4WD due to drier pavement). There were already a couple of cars waiting to hook onto the tow truck (waiting next to them), when I started sliding toward the curb. Not really high speed, mind you, but no tendencies toward control. No problem about missing the other cars and tow truck, but not enough reaction tie even for this slow motion slider. WHAM! Pretty much a direct, side-walls-first slam into the 10" high curb. Maybe 5 mph, maybe 8 - - the speedo didn't register too accurately. Still, a pretty good jolt. Got out, looked at the still inflated tires and backed out and into the next driveway. The tow truck guy asked if I was OK, which I was. I even commented that the Jeep seemed OK; which he mentioned wasn't likely - - had to be some damage with the impact we'd suffered. He was right - - I had to get an alignment job (obvious since the steering wheel was no longer square with the world). Still, I saw several other vehicles at that same intersection - - most had wheels neatly tucked up under their chassis.
Anybody else have the opinion that Jeeps are pretty tough little vehicles?
Yep! I'll sure go along with that. They are just plain amazing.
When I think about how much time Thelma Jane has spent on the trails and how I have had to repair/replace almost NOTHING, I am truly impressed. One bent control arm and one front hub/bearing assembly. She's only been on the trails for three years, but I go wheelin' so often, she probably has seen more trail time than most fifteen year old Jeeps!
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
One thing happened yesterday when the family took our first drive. My son 2 1/4 years old was in the back in the car seat. He had his hands behind his head like he was just kickn back and was bobbin his head to the tunes. I turned around and asked him if he was having fun and he said yes daddy. He has not done this before in any vehicle we have been in, it must be a Jeep Thing....LOL.....
Tom, ive been in and out of this forum for years and you even made some phone calls for me a while back on a used jeep. I appreciate your help as well as all the others that also steered me the right way. The rubi is an over kill for my needs but man do i like it. I just wish turkey bay was much closer as i would like to meet ya Tom and hit some trails....Thanks, Jeff
Yeeeeeeeeeeeehawwwwwww!!!!!!
You are most welcome for any help I might have been to you in your quest for a Jeep.
Aren't you glad you waited and got a BRAND NEW Unlimited, and a Rubi to boot?
Now, you need to get some pics posted!
And, I am sure with ya on the Turkey Bay hook up. Wish it could happen.
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
The body shop put on a used roof, rear hatch, driver side door, quarter panel, etc...
To my amazement, I never had a problem with it do to the accident. About a year and a half later I hit a black bear while driving through PA. Drove the rest of the way to Ohio, without the need of a tow-truck. The bear did about $3500 worth of damage. It was a solid vehicle from the day I bought it to the day I sold it.
Thank God I don't have a stories like that about my TJ (knock on wood!) Maybe one of these days I'll put it's toughness to the test on some trails!
-Dan
anyone know how to make the axles lock?...as in the tires spin at same speed + torque regardless of traction
You should be aware that lockers can have some annoying side effects for street use: they are really best suited for off road use.
When you take a corner, your tires have to spin at different speeds, since the outer tire must travel a longer path than does the inner tire, but it has to travel that distance in the same amount of time.
The outer tire has to be able to turn faster than the inner tire, so the direct connection between the two tires must be interrupted during turns. This is accomplished by the locker releasing in corners and re-engaging once the turn is completed. The release occurs upon deceleration, and the re-engagement when torque is re-applied when the vehicle accelerates after resuming a straight path. (One adjustment in driving style that is necessary when you have a rear locker is that you do not get back on the gas quite as quickly coming out of a sharp turn.)
Lockers vary in the smoothness of their operation. A Detroit Soft Locker will normally disengage and re-engage very smoothly, once a person learns to wait just a split second longer to get back on the gas after a turn. Even with a Detroit, you will know it's back there. To me, the benefits are well worth it, but then I go off roading every weekend. For a Jeep that will see duty only on the street, I don't think I would recommend a locker.
There are selectable lockers, but they are expensive. A selectable locker can be turned on and off. The Rub icons have selectable lockers front and back.
There are after market selectable lockers, like the ARB, which uses compressed air to engage the locker. You have to buy an onboard air compressor as part of the system, if you want ARB's. There is also an Ox brand locker that is cable actuated. There are also some electric selectable lockers out there.
Instead of a locker, what might be best for you is limited slip. Limited slips cause no problem on the pavement: they do not have the quirks of a full locker. For a limited slip to make both tires pull, there has to be at least a little bit of traction on both sides. If one tire is completely off the ground, as often is the case off road, then a limited slip will not make the other tire pull, like a full locker would do. However, a limited slip can sometimes be "fooled" by applying a little brake while the gas pedal is being pushed down. The resistance from the brake can be "interpreted" by the differential as traction, and the tire with better traction will pull.
Hope this helps.
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
P.S. I also have a front locker on Thelma Jane, but it is a Lock Right locker. It is not as expensive and not as smooth as a Detroit, but in 2WD it doesn't do anything, so smoothness of operation is not really a factor on a front locker. I hear some clicking noise in tight corners, but that's it.
Some people run Lock Rights in the back, but I'm glad I spent the extra bucks for a Detroit in the back.
It's got limited slip diffs at both ends and a locking rear, just like a Rubicon, and it rolls on 37" tires. It has a considerably tighter turning circle than the Jeep, 26' vs. 35', and 16" of ground clearance. It's only a couple of inches taller than my Wrangler, but it's longer and wider. However, even though it's coil sprung and has comfy heated leather seats, the ride makes the Wrangler seem like limo.
If I gave more details it would be too easy, but I must say that my wife, who shared the driving, absolutely loves it!
thanks for the help guys
I can say that it's an '03 in stock factory trim, and it has seat belts and ABS but no airbags. Does that help any?