Having read your message it seems like your talking apples versus oranges and they simply are not the same. First, I didn't know Jeeps had good lumbar. I'm 6'3" and never found a comfortable jeep seat yet. Doesn't stop me, however. I, too, think it is easy to read between the lines...you love the Wrangler! With hard decisions, especially practical versus want, I always ask myself "Am I going to live forever?" "What guarantee do I have that I don't die in a car wreck tomorrow or develop cancer?" You only have the present moment...it doesn't hurt to plan, but you cannot make the plan granite. I operated a retirement village for two years and the one constant I heard from everyone of those seniors was "don't wait, live your life now, if you want something or to do something, do it now!!" Good advice from people with a lot of knowledge. You don't get a second go around...live this one to the fullest. I have a picture of a graveyard on my desk with words under it. "Imagine all the concerns about money, prestige, careers, what people think...what does it matter now?" Live your dreams and your life now. If your Jeep Junkie then be a Jeep Junkie and have fun doing it. Leave the Prius to your neighbor who is going to live forever..and who envies your freedom. Best of luck in your decision and enjoy the Wrangler, Jeepman!
How's that Sheryl Crow song go? If it makes you happy, it can't be that bad.
Personally, the Jeep is the most enviromentally friendly car I've ever owned. My other cars, everything from a Monte Carlo to a Prelude, leaked gallons of oil (and transmission fluid, and steering fluid, and coolant, and freon, etc.).
More to the point, here in California there's talk -- and right now it's just talk -- that so many people are driving fuel economic cars like the Prius that the state is losing gas tax revenue. So, there's a plan in the works (drafted by the current head of the DMV I think) to enact a mileage tax. In other words, it won't matter how much or how little gas you use, but how far you drive. You'd pay as much as the guy driving the 8 cylinder SUV. And, you would get further penalized for driving during peak hours.
(Those of us living in L.A. know that "peak" hours are 24/7. I think there's a 15 minute window around 2 a.m. Sunday when the freeways move relatively well.)
Well you will NOT be getting the Jeep Wave in a Prius, LOL....Also, if you keep your current jeep you will not have to pay TT&L as you would for the Prius. I had an Xterra and traded it due to the gas mileage issue and went with a honda civic back in 2001. Oh the gas mileage was nice, however, i felt like i was sitting on the ground in a cramped tin can and every large vehicle behind me just felt like it was on my back. I traded the civic in 6 months no joke, Hated It!!
The wrangler to me is like being in a very large extended family. Lots of waves and smiles its a great feeling and worth the extra few $$ a month in gas to drive for this alone for me...
Do what ya have to do and whatever ya drive be happy with your choice cuz its your hard earned $$$ being spent on the vehicle. While im trading my time for the $$$ i like to ride with my extended family, LOL...take care, Jeff
Do the wind deflectors on a wrangler really work? Im catching every bug in a 100 miles radius and using more washer fluid than niagra falls, LOL....If they improve the bug situation im buying, just wanted opinions from those that use em on their wranglers.....Jeff
I doubt you can expect DC to fix the bug issue in D/FW. Anything that helps the air up and over the windshield can help, but don't expect it to help TOO much. You're driving a brick.
I sure hope they DON'T tax based on mileage. I haven't heard that horrible talk in a while, so I'm hoping that it has gone away.
It really erks me - I can't afford rents anywhere close to work, I can't afford mortgage payments anywhere within about 40 miles of work, and then they are going to tax me on my mileage because I finally found a house I could afford?! All of a sudden I wouldn't be able to afford to live at all.
It's always struck me as a short-sighted way for the state to grab some more of MY money, and the only people who win are the property management companies who will start charging ever higher rents.
Sorry to get on my soapbox, and to get back to Jeeps - I've been thinking of replacing the carpet in the '98 Sport. It looked to me like I'd have to take out the seats to get the front carpet out - is that so? The Unlimited's owners manual talks about taking the carpet out without removing the carpet. I was wondering if the current SWB Wranglers that have front carpet that could easily be replaced (thinking of getting that for a replacement, if possible).
What about the people that drive alot for their job. Like me i drive at 50K a year in my own vehicle as a real estate appraiser i would be eaten alive by this tax on top of all the other taxes of being self employed, like...drum roll....The Self Employment Tax.....woohoo thats a fun one to calculate and a huge chunk of my income goes to this one.....
On my '01, I can pull all the carpet with a few snaps and tugs, removing it from under the console and around everything else. It's actually a few separate pieces of carpet so it's relatively manageable. I would think yours is the same as Jeep has always advertised the Wrangler as having a hose out interior. If yours isn't too worn, you might bring it back to life with some RIT dye and something to soak it in.
Tom, you're never going to live that down. However, it's nothing to feel bad about. You're getting maximum fun from your Jeep, and you now have better health to enjoy it. A few marks in the paint and an empty ashtray are a small price to pay.
Have things ever changed in a few years! From wiping bugs off twice a day to honorable dings and dents well earned off-roading.
Thelma Jane is still a great looking vehicle, and it has certainly provided you hours and hours of incredible enjoyment. Can't ask for anything better than that, can you?
There's a lot wrong with it. For one thing, L.A. public transportation is a joke. There isn't a metro stop within ten miles of my house. We take our cars (and Jeeps) and taxes very seriously here. The recent triple car tax is what got Gray Davis in trouble, and why we now have Gov. Schwarzenegger.
Here's a link to a pretty good article about the plan. They sugggest SUV drivers would pay more of a tax because their cars are tougher on roads. Wonder if that includes Jeeps?
My college roommate is a civil engineer who designs highways for Illinois, I've learned way more than I ever intended about concrete over the past 20 years. Cars and normal passenger vehicles are not even considered, roads are built based on the damage done by 80,000# semi tractor rigs. Passenger cars, Jeeps, and even those Hummers don't create any significant wear on a road.
jeff
If no one has ever waved at you in your jeep,, its time for you to start the trend,, wave at every jeep you see,,
quote from embeeduece
Here's a link to a pretty good article about the plan. They sugggest SUV drivers would pay more of a tax because their cars are tougher on roads. Wonder if that includes Jeeps?
I rarely get Jeep waves when I'm in LA, but often get waves around Frazier Park and elsewhere in SoCal. I wave most of the time, my husband rarely waves - he just doesn't quite understand.
So they would put a tracking device and then I suppose you have to have a computer to store the info, and while it supposedly doesn't transmit your location back, at some point it would have to be downloaded, so they could tax you. Since it would report your location, it could conceivably monitor time also. That means they could not only tax you for your miles, they could also compute your speed and give you speeding tickets for any time you exceeded the speed limit. The enforcement options could go on and on. Yuck!
That sounds a little too Big Brother-ish. You Cali folks should protest in the streets if Mtngal's prediction comes true. How would that not be an invasion of privacy?!?!
It's none of the government's business if I drive 10 miles a week or 10,000 miles a week!
I realize that Cali has series traffic issues, but offer rewards rather than punishment.
I believe it's a revenue issue more than a traffic one. And I think Oregon came up with the idea first (link). Although charging high fees would get people off the road and make the commutes easier (trying for a positive spin there, lol).
If you decide to protest, you can have a sing-in:
"Jeep is sponsoring a three-year initiative that starts Thursday to reteach Americans "The Star-Spangled Banner."
Well, now I know why my ears were burning while I was on that business trip!
OK, so I used to be a little fanatic about Thelma Jane's appearance. Well, I got over it, didn't I? Now she gets in the mud and out in the bushes every weekend.
Like I have told you guys about those bugs that have hit Thelma Jane's grill... they didn't have the guts to do it again!
I enjoyed Thelma Jane more than any previous vehicle, even when I kept her spotless and drove her only on the pavement. Then, when I took her off road the first time and saw how much fun it was, I began to enjoy her even more.
To those of you who never get off the pavement, hey, that's OK. Jeeps are fun even just driving on the road all the time. I encourage you, though, to try off roading after some of the new wears off. It is an absolute blast, and you ain't gonna believe the places that Jeep will go!
I was surprised what my little TJ SE would do, and I'm essentially a stock suspension (but do have disconnects for the front sway bar) on 30" tires with Canyon wheels.
Really impressive stuff is doable and it is SO much fun. Yes, I'm still paranoid about getting body damage, but there are way to protect yourself - Armor! I have some pics, but they have a logo of another site that probably shouldn't be posted. Let me know if you want to see them and I can try to point you to them.
Thought it was interesting Jeep would think Americans don't know the words to the Star Spangled Banner. Not only do I know the words, at one point I knew the words to Oh, Canada. I knew them better than someone at an L.A. Kings game who was trying to sing both national anthems and messed up the words. The entire audience knew the words better than she did (not suprising I guess for a bunch of hockey fans). While I think it's great they are doing that, I somehow don't think it will sell more Jeeps.
I had a flashback of Ray Charles (iirc) wanting to change the US anthem to something musical and easier to remember. Purple mountain majesties and all.
Aside to Tcmoose/Jeff; your emails continue to arrive empty.
That is a sweet looking Unlimited. Don't spoil it with tube bumpers or anything from Smitty. I'd also ditch the mud flaps. To make the front bumper more presentable, take off the plastic ballast. First, you'll need to go out and get a set of torx heads, which you'll need anyway. Then start looking at the following bumpers: Toys by Troy Rokmen Jeeperman Hanson M.O.R.E. Big Daddy ARB
Google is your friend and any of those bumpers would look great on your rig. Don't buy any bumpers from any of those Jeep catalogs...I myself am leaning towards Mountain Offroad's (MORE) "Hi Clearance" bumper.
Nice looking jeep - the silver really looks good. Love the snow - sure wish we had some (well, there is still some higher up). On the other hand, the Gorman hills are dusted with yellow flowers, the lower hills are dusty blue/purple with the best display of lupine that I can remember. Spring is definitely HERE!
Yeah you should get em. You stole my window sticker though! Here is my jeep with the Jeeperman bumpers installed (and with integrated winch plate).
Very sturdy, ready for a winch, and look good. Easy installation too. The TbT bumpers are VERY nice too, but for what I do, these made more sense and gave me the protection I wanted/needed.
I know this has prolly been discussed before, but what size tires can I fit on without a lift - I have a 97 SE (4cyl). Any recommendations on tires? I drive 60% highway and medium trails - no real muddin! thanks again.
I have ben spending every spare diem on my new"used" jeep and loving it!
31x10.5 is the max size w/o a lift. You MIGHT rub the lower control arms at full turn but you can add washers to the steering stops to stop that, but you lose a tiny bit of turn radius.
I have 30x9.5 on there with Canyons right now. See the pic above for what it looks like.
what I know now, I would not have gotten the Canyons. I should have gotten something with less backspacing than 5.5". 4.25" or so is ideal, especially if you want to lift it, disconnect the sway bar, and run larger tires. But I love how they look and can make em work. I know steel wheels can be had for under 50.00 each from a LOT of sources, but I wanted to keep the rotational weight on the axles lower (hence the alloy) and still allow me the heavier, bigger tires.
Sharp Jeeperman bumper. Is it powder coated? Did you get any sag on the front from the weight? Also, what sliders are you running there? They look like Rokmen's but it's very hard to tell from that angle...
i have steel wheels now - the ones with five spokes - i dont like the look. are they lighter than the alloy? sould i just keep em and get larger tires?
Steel is heavier on your Jeep, but costs less. Alloy is lighter on your Jeep, but costs more.
The bumpers on my TJ are powdercoated, as is the light bar. The rockers are Toys by Troy rockers and are VERY stout. They remind me of the AEV's and the Rokmen's. Adds a great look and great protection. Stu Olson has a write up on his website www.stu-offroad.com. That is what prompted me to get em.
My suspension is already sagging a bit after 98000+ miles. If it sagged, it didn't do it more than a 1/4 or 3/8". I plan to upgrade to an OME lift hopefully in a month or two, pending finance committee approval.
It is a straightforward job, but if you don't have the right tools, or are a bit uncertain, better leave it to a pro.
Regearing both axles, yes you have to do both, can run over 1,000 easy if you have somebody do it. if you can do it yourself, you can take your time to be sure you did it right. I have no problems getting into my differentials to do it, but I have no clue what I'm doing.
You could probably join a local jeep club and find members who have done it already and would willingly assist you. You get to learn new stuff, get to meet fellow jeepers, and you get to save some serious $$ for other mods, like lifts and/or armor and/or tires.
Since you have an SE, you'd probably just jump up to 4.88 gearing. You have the 4.10 now, just like me. Going to 4.56 would be cost ineffective, but 4.88 would be a good choice if you want to run 33 or 35" tires. What is the final tire size you want? Anything less than 33 (32 and under) should be fine unless you do a LOT of highway with it.
Keep in mind, with 4.88's your RPM's will be higher and may lose more fuel efficiency with the gearing and tire combination.
I just recently upgraded from 225x75x15 on 7 inch full face rims on my 04 "X" to Bridgestone Dueller Revo, the most superior all terrain tire according to Tire Rack. The size is now 30x9.50x15. I have post # 16017 for other details. The Revo looks very aggressive, and looks as tall as the 31 x 10.50x15, just narrower. Overall no regrets, because I have not noticed any performance problems at all, except gas mileage, still need more evaluation before I can confirm if I lost 1 mpg on average.
Hey everyone. This is my first post on here, and I have seen a lot of great information about jeeps. To start, I have a 97 wrangler, 4cyl...and I am looking to put a lift on it. Can someone guide me on the differences between spacers, and a regular lift kit? I'm guessing it's the durability factor, but I'm going for the looks, not to go off-roading. Any info will be great. Thanks a lot.
I don't know Steve, I think it might. Maybe not the members here, but there's lots of Jeep owners that are firm believers in K&Ns, throttle spacers, etc., etc.
Have to admit I feel an empathy with Jack Lanier, the author of that article.
I guess you're right. I was thinking more of lockers and lifts - those kinds of mods seem justifiable for a Jeep. The seat of the pants stuff is hard to quantify.
Pass me another pint of snake oil, will ya? Got more bugs to clean off the grill. :-)
Comments
Best of luck in your decision and enjoy the Wrangler, Jeepman!
Personally, the Jeep is the most enviromentally friendly car I've ever owned. My other cars, everything from a Monte Carlo to a Prelude, leaked gallons of oil (and transmission fluid, and steering fluid, and coolant, and freon, etc.).
More to the point, here in California there's talk -- and right now it's just talk -- that so many people are driving fuel economic cars like the Prius that the state is losing gas tax revenue. So, there's a plan in the works (drafted by the current head of the DMV I think) to enact a mileage tax. In other words, it won't matter how much or how little gas you use, but how far you drive. You'd pay as much as the guy driving the 8 cylinder SUV. And, you would get further penalized for driving during peak hours.
(Those of us living in L.A. know that "peak" hours are 24/7. I think there's a 15 minute window around 2 a.m. Sunday when the freeways move relatively well.)
The wrangler to me is like being in a very large extended family. Lots of waves and smiles its a great feeling and worth the extra few $$ a month in gas to drive for this alone for me...
Do what ya have to do and whatever ya drive be happy with your choice cuz its your hard earned $$$ being spent on the vehicle. While im trading my time for the $$$ i like to ride with my extended family, LOL...take care, Jeff
-Paul
It really erks me - I can't afford rents anywhere close to work, I can't afford mortgage payments anywhere within about 40 miles of work, and then they are going to tax me on my mileage because I finally found a house I could afford?! All of a sudden I wouldn't be able to afford to live at all.
It's always struck me as a short-sighted way for the state to grab some more of MY money, and the only people who win are the property management companies who will start charging ever higher rents.
Sorry to get on my soapbox, and to get back to Jeeps - I've been thinking of replacing the carpet in the '98 Sport. It looked to me like I'd have to take out the seats to get the front carpet out - is that so? The Unlimited's owners manual talks about taking the carpet out without removing the carpet. I was wondering if the current SWB Wranglers that have front carpet that could easily be replaced (thinking of getting that for a replacement, if possible).
-twylie
tsjay, "Jeep Wrangler" #1931, 10 Apr 2001 5:41 pm
Steve, Host
-Paul
tsjay, "Jeep Wrangler" #1931, 10 Apr 2001 5:41 pm
Steve, Host"
You beat me to it Steve!
Tom, you're never going to live that down. However, it's nothing to feel bad about. You're getting maximum fun from your Jeep, and you now have better health to enjoy it. A few marks in the paint and an empty ashtray are a small price to pay.
Congratulations!
:--)
Thelma Jane is still a great looking vehicle, and it has certainly provided you hours and hours of incredible enjoyment. Can't ask for anything better than that, can you?
Steve, Host
Here's a link to a pretty good article about the plan. They sugggest SUV drivers would pay more of a tax because their cars are tougher on roads. Wonder if that includes Jeeps?
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6529501/
BTW, I've never been waved to once in my Jeep.
It's good that it doesn't seem to bug you
-Dan
tidester, host
jeff
If no one has ever waved at you in your jeep,, its time for you to start the trend,, wave at every jeep you see,,
quote from embeeduece
Here's a link to a pretty good article about the plan. They sugggest SUV drivers would pay more of a tax because their cars are tougher on roads. Wonder if that includes Jeeps?
So they would put a tracking device and then I suppose you have to have a computer to store the info, and while it supposedly doesn't transmit your location back, at some point it would have to be downloaded, so they could tax you. Since it would report your location, it could conceivably monitor time also. That means they could not only tax you for your miles, they could also compute your speed and give you speeding tickets for any time you exceeded the speed limit. The enforcement options could go on and on. Yuck!
You Cali folks should protest in the streets if Mtngal's prediction comes true. How would that not be an invasion of privacy?!?!
It's none of the government's business if I drive 10 miles a week or 10,000 miles a week!
I realize that Cali has series traffic issues, but offer rewards rather than punishment.
-Dan
If you decide to protest, you can have a sing-in:
"Jeep is sponsoring a three-year initiative that starts Thursday to reteach Americans "The Star-Spangled Banner."
Oh Say, Can You See Automakers Getting Musical? (Inside Line)
Y'all wave now, ya hear?
Steve, Host
OK, so I used to be a little fanatic about Thelma Jane's appearance. Well, I got over it, didn't I? Now she gets in the mud and out in the bushes every weekend.
Like I have told you guys about those bugs that have hit Thelma Jane's grill... they didn't have the guts to do it again!
I enjoyed Thelma Jane more than any previous vehicle, even when I kept her spotless and drove her only on the pavement. Then, when I took her off road the first time and saw how much fun it was, I began to enjoy her even more.
To those of you who never get off the pavement, hey, that's OK. Jeeps are fun even just driving on the road all the time. I encourage you, though, to try off roading after some of the new wears off. It is an absolute blast, and you ain't gonna believe the places that Jeep will go!
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
Really impressive stuff is doable and it is SO much fun. Yes, I'm still paranoid about getting body damage, but there are way to protect yourself - Armor! I have some pics, but they have a logo of another site that probably shouldn't be posted. Let me know if you want to see them and I can try to point you to them.
-Paul
Aside to Tcmoose/Jeff; your emails continue to arrive empty.
Steve, Host
Stock bumpers gotta GO!!
Dunno If I should get double tubes or get some Smittybilt rock bumpers.?.?.? Leaning towards the rock bumpers but then i need a winch
Toys by Troy
Rokmen
Jeeperman
Hanson
M.O.R.E.
Big Daddy
ARB
Google is your friend and any of those bumpers would look great on your rig. Don't buy any bumpers from any of those Jeep catalogs...I myself am leaning towards Mountain Offroad's (MORE) "Hi Clearance" bumper.
Good luck!
She's drop dead gorgeous! Once again, CONGRATULATIONS!
Yeah, take those sissy plastic jugs off the bumpers, at least the front bumper anyway.
I'm not a fan of double tube bumpers, but she's YOUR Jeep, so do what YOU like.
Good luck with that baby!
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
Very sturdy, ready for a winch, and look good. Easy installation too. The TbT bumpers are VERY nice too, but for what I do, these made more sense and gave me the protection I wanted/needed.
-Paul
Anyone know what happend to its a jeep web site? its been down for some time....Tom? Ya know?
I have ben spending every spare diem on my new"used" jeep and loving it!
I have 30x9.5 on there with Canyons right now. See the pic above for what it looks like.
-Paul
Steve, Host
Tom
Have you hugged your Jeep today?
-Paul
Alloy is lighter on your Jeep, but costs more.
The bumpers on my TJ are powdercoated, as is the light bar. The rockers are Toys by Troy rockers and are VERY stout. They remind me of the AEV's and the Rokmen's. Adds a great look and great protection. Stu Olson has a write up on his website www.stu-offroad.com. That is what prompted me to get em.
My suspension is already sagging a bit after 98000+ miles. If it sagged, it didn't do it more than a 1/4 or 3/8". I plan to upgrade to an OME lift hopefully in a month or two, pending finance committee approval.
-Paul
It is a straightforward job, but if you don't have the right tools, or are a bit uncertain, better leave it to a pro.
Regearing both axles, yes you have to do both, can run over 1,000 easy if you have somebody do it. if you can do it yourself, you can take your time to be sure you did it right. I have no problems getting into my differentials to do it, but I have no clue what I'm doing.
You could probably join a local jeep club and find members who have done it already and would willingly assist you. You get to learn new stuff, get to meet fellow jeepers, and you get to save some serious $$ for other mods, like lifts and/or armor and/or tires.
Since you have an SE, you'd probably just jump up to 4.88 gearing. You have the 4.10 now, just like me. Going to 4.56 would be cost ineffective, but 4.88 would be a good choice if you want to run 33 or 35" tires. What is the final tire size you want? Anything less than 33 (32 and under) should be fine unless you do a LOT of highway with it.
Keep in mind, with 4.88's your RPM's will be higher and may lose more fuel efficiency with the gearing and tire combination.
-Paul
-Dan
Zach
Interesting story on Inside Line today, but somehow I don't think it really applies to Jeep mods too much.
Friends Don't Let Friends Modify Cars
Steve, Host
Have to admit I feel an empathy with Jack Lanier, the author of that article.
Pass me another pint of snake oil, will ya? Got more bugs to clean off the grill. :-)
Steve, Host