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2012 - 2013 Toyota Avalon

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Comments

  • finfin Member Posts: 594
    edited June 2012
    The latest article from CNet shows a hybrid is coming for the Avalon and also has a nice picture of the 2013. Yes, the grille is as we have seen it, like it or not. The 2013 Avalon is only 2 inches longer than a Camry and 100 pounds heavier. Much too similar, this is not a good sign even though the Avalon will probably have a softer ride for us "older" drivers... :)
    Here's a link:
    http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13746_7-57460257-48/2013-toyota-avalon-gets-the-cam- rys-v-6-hybrid-engines/?part=rss&subj=news&tag=title
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 15,856
    Gentlemen, I believe the Avalon as we know and love it is gone. RIP :cry:

    It just gets worse with every new picture, etc

    What is Toyota thinking?

    Oh and the article is wrong. The 3.5 268HP V6 is NOT direct injected. The 300HP version in the Lexus IS and GS is DI.

    2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve

  • nceencee Member Posts: 419
    :( You're right. Not sure if there is going to be enough difference to really spend the extra bucks for this over a Camry?

    Some days I like it and some days I don't.

    color will make a big difference for me, but not as big as:

    - Ride
    - Comfort
    - Quietness
    - Over-all feel when driving

    Boy I'm sure my local dealer isn't going to be happy if I get my deposit back and go and buy a used LS 460 L

    Skip
  • ushy66ushy66 Member Posts: 366
    edited June 2012
    Yep. Looks like Toyota may be staying with the unpopular grill design. Additional 2013 Hybrid Avalon info posted here at Autoblog.com:

    http://www.autoblog.com/2012/06/26/toyota-avalon-gets-40-mpg-hybrid-model-for-20- 13/.

    If you go there, click on press release.

    Since the main difference between the Camry Hybrid (TCH) and the Avalon Hybrid (TAH) will be the slightly larger Avalon, it will be interesting to see what the pricing differential will be. If the price differential for the TAH vs non-hybrid Avalon is large (like the price disparity between the fully loaded non-hybrid Highlander LTD and the hybrid Highlander LTD, ~$7-9K), the choice will be easy--->TCH will get most of the sales, or the non-hybrid Avalon will be the big choice, in spite of the unattractive front-end design.

    Jake
  • p0tatoep0tatoe Member Posts: 8
    Thanks for telling us to click on press release! Unless I missed it, even the press releas doesn't say wat the hybrid's transmission is. A quick look at Edmunds sys the 2012 Camry hybrid has a CVT. I've never owned a CVT, and Im not sure I want to.

    Also, Edmunds says the
    2012 Camry XLE V/6 starts at $30,115
    2012 Camry XLE Hybrid starts at $27,500

    So, does that tell us the Avalon hybrid will cost less than the V/6? Several thousand less?! Then yes, I agree, hybrids will sell more.

    I like the looks of the new Avalon, grille and all. But, if they're making it smaller and trying to be sportier with it, then it becomes more like every other car. For the money, I'd rather have a Lexus ES, etc.
  • finfin Member Posts: 594
    About the CVT... my kid put 65k highway miles on a 2009 Nissan Altima 4 cyl w/CVT and it worked fine. Hard to get the feel of a CVT at first, it just keeps revving and nothing seems to happen but you get there just fine. And passing was not a problem so my kid bought another one, a 2012. Do not fear a Toyota CVT, they should be as good as Nissan...... :)
  • p0tatoep0tatoe Member Posts: 8
    Thanks and yes, it's probably just fear. CVT is an excellent idea, just feels weird.

    Fiat says their 500 is EPA rated 30 city/ 38 hwy. The Avalon hybrid is supposed to be 40/39 right?

    Looks like Toyota's going to deliver on the "better mileage than a Fiat 500" promise.
  • ushy66ushy66 Member Posts: 366
    To get a better idea on what the guts and performance of the 2013 Avalon hybrid will be (until a good review article does come out), we can check out the info/reviews already out there on the 2013 Lexus 300h and the 2012 Camry hybrid, both of which the hybrid Avalon is based, having identical or nearly identical hybrid drive trains. The following articles should further help in that regard:

    1.) More info on 2013 hybrid Avalon from Automobile magazine:
    http://rumors.automobilemag.com/toyota-unveils-powertrains-for-2013-avalon-v-6-a- nd-hybrid-options-available-150073.html

    2.) 2013 Lexus ES 300h Car and Driver review article:
    http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2013-lexus-es300h-hybrid-first-drive-review

    3.) And 2012 Camry hybrid Car and Driver review article:
    http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2012-toyota-camry-hybrid-test-review

    In my opinion, these three hybrids will all perform about the the same, but the advantages as I see them are as follows:
    1) Camry hybrid in XLE trim is a really nice car, and will be the least expensive of the three, and has a fairly decent front-end/grill design;
    2) Avalon hybrid will be a little more roomy and comfortable than Camry, but will cost a couple grand more, but will have the most generous room in the rear seat compared to the other two;
    3) ES 300h will be most plush, and has a better grill design than the Avalon (unless Toyota surprises us and changes it for the final version; let's hope, but not hold our breath), but will cost a few grand more than the Avalon.

    What do you all think?

    Jake
  • bwiabwia Member Posts: 2,913
    The newly introduced 2012 Australian version of the Toyota Avalon is called the Aurion. http://www.toyota.com.au/aurion.

    If only Toyota would use that grill on the Avalon it would have a perfect car with the looks of a supermodel. Perhaps if we write to Toyota and suggest the Aurion grill they might listen. So start writing.
  • nceencee Member Posts: 419
    I for one, won't be (likely) getting this version.

    1) You have to drive better / different / more carefully to get high mileage
    2) It will cost more then you might recoup in a reasonable time period
    3) The cost in general
    4) Repair cost(s) down the road (although I trade ever year or so, so it won't likely concern me)
    5) - Add on here your thoughts

    I'd like to see the web site show the color options for both interior and exterior (I want to pick out my color combo:))

    Skip
  • nceencee Member Posts: 419
    Agreed, but then again, I'd rather have seen an older LS grill / front end then this current one.

    And I for one, wanted the car to be a bit bigger (making the comparisons to camry a bit harder)

    No one, not even me, wants to be buying a glorified camry, when purchasing an avalon.

    Skip
  • finfin Member Posts: 594
    Nice looking car, thanks for the link and post... Why did we get this front end and the Aussie's get the LS460 look? This is rediculous..... it's a beauty down under, for us it's.....something else. What were they thinking? Maybe we will get the other front end the second year, if slow sales don't kill off the line completely. And, as I have posted before, the ONLY thing that keeps the Avalon in production is the fact it is not expensive to make along side the Camry. It's just a little more gravy on the mashed potatos... any other way, the car would have been history long ago, trust me..
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 15,856
    No one, not even me, wants to be buying a glorified camry, when purchasing an avalon.

    Well some would argue that the Avalon was always a glorified Camry. IMHO there was always enough differences (especially size) that it was worth it. Heck, I've owned two of them and loved them both. This new model is doing nothing for me, what a shame.

    2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve

  • nceencee Member Posts: 419
    And another nice feature of the Aurion, is the 60/40 split rear seat, although the interior on the New Avalon looks better then the Aurion to me.

    Skip
  • jeffm5jeffm5 Member Posts: 123
    Having owned a 98 Avy XLS and, currently, an 05 Avy Limited, I was so looking forward to the 2013 Avy as a replacement for my 05, which has been the best car I have ever owned. Sorry guys, but my wife and I just can't get past that front grill. Considered a Taurus, LaCrosse, CTS, ES350, Acura TL, VW CC, Azera. Ended up with a loaded 2013 Volvo S60 T5, which was not even on my radar 3 months ago. I take delivery next month. Believe me, I'll be sad and my wife will be in tears when we hand over our Avy remotes.
  • nceencee Member Posts: 419
    And with all the other options you listed, how did the Volvo end up the winner?

    Skip
  • bwiabwia Member Posts: 2,913
    edited June 2012
    And, as I have posted before, the ONLY thing that keeps the Avalon in production is the fact it is not expensive to make along side the Camry.

    The 2013 Avalon needs to be a winner to reverse the sales slide of the past dozen years. The hideous grill certainly won't help matters as expressed by many in this forum. Here are the sales data for Version 2.0 and 3.0 respectively:

    2000---104,078
    2001-- -83,005
    2002--- 69,029
    2003--- 50,911
    2004--- 36,460
    2005--- 95,318
    2006---88,938
    2007-- -72,945
    2008--- 42,790
    2009--- 26,935
    2010--- 28,390
    2011--- 28,925

    Source: http://www.answers.com/topic/toyota-avalon#ixzz1zC69Tc5r
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 15,856
    The sales slide as the model gets stale. It happens to a lot of makes/models.

    2000 (Gen 2) had its best years early in the run. 04 was a very light year knowing Gen 3 was coming and was a huge difference (including an all new engine, the 2GR V6).

    The current Avalon basically dates back to 05 and IMHO is very long in the tooth (while still being a damn fine car).

    If Toyota was serious about keeping a large floaty car in the lineup they would have brought a heavily refreshed version around 2 years ago. If it were me I would have brought the DI version of the 3.5 (from the IS/GS 350) and changed up the looks while keeping the size and ride.

    They unfortunately are trying to please everyone and are playing the hybrid game and making it too close to the Camry. I don't know how they plan on selling it. It already overlapped with the ES350 in terms of price, now that it's smaller what's the point? The main reason I bought my Avalons over an ES was the fact it was roomier.

    All this is a moot point anyway, as again IMHO the photos we have seen show the new Avalon to be butt ugly with a face only a mother could love.

    2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve

  • nceencee Member Posts: 419
    Numbers don't lie, but they can be a bit deceiving.

    - The Economy?
    - High Gas Prices?
    - Lower Used Car Prices?
    - Increased pushing of Camry
    - New exciting models from the competition?
    - Folks keeping their cars longer?
    - Leasing Options?
    - Other car sales for same periods?

    I see A LOT more Avalon's on the road in the last year, then I use to see. Are all 28,000 being sold on the East Coast?

    All interesting questions.

    Will the New Avalon sell more / better É YES! Will it be enough to turn it around?

    They can't make sweeping changes next year, as this is a pretty big change and new body changes aren't cheap or practical to make the next model year.

    Skip
  • jeffm5jeffm5 Member Posts: 123
    Skip,
    The short answer is that the S60 meets our needs and I wanted something a little different. We wanted a car that is smaller than thr Avy, but did not want to sacrifice, comfort, ride, fuel economy. The front seats in the S60 are very comfortable. Plenty of power and I'll get around 30 MPG on the highway on regular gas. Also, while we both have outstanding driving records, I'm the first to admit that at 62 my vision/hearing/reflexes aren't what they used to be, so I appreciate the numerous safety features the Volvo has. The LaCrosse is a very nice car, but those thick A pillars were a deal breaker. The ES350 is also a great car, but I see them all over the place here. I've always felt that European cars were more expensive to maintain than American or Japanese, but Volvo has free maintenance and covers repairs, including brakes, for 5 yrs/50K miles. The dealership also offers free loaners for the life of the car. The service dept. is also more "upscale" than any Toyota dealership in my area. So all of this factored in.
  • nceencee Member Posts: 419
    Sounds like all great reasons to me.

    I had considered Volvo's some time back, and then got hooked on Toyota's (plus the dealer buy's a TON of promotional / marketing stuff from us), and because of that, I went with Toyota's. So far, glad we did. 3 Avalons, 3 Camrys, a 4 Runner, and 2 Tercels, later, no problems with any of these.

    I'm hoping the new Avalon grows on me.

    Enjoy the Volvo.

    Skip
  • nceencee Member Posts: 419
    I know it's not a great job, but here is the 2013 with the top grill red, the bottom grill red, and both grills red (or whatever color the car would be)

    - http://www.flickr.com/photos/vonstringcaldinkal/7521273270/in/photostream
    - http://www.flickr.com/photos/vonstringcaldinkal/7521273254/in/photostream
    - http://www.flickr.com/photos/vonstringcaldinkal/7521299128/in/photostream

    And the winner is?

    Skip">
  • finfin Member Posts: 594
    This calls to mind the question: "If a glass is half filled with water, is it half full or half empty?" We all choose one response, or the other, depending on our personal thoughts.... except the IT guy in the office who responds, "The glass is too big..." :)
    Thanks for posting the links.....
  • ushy66ushy66 Member Posts: 366
    Let's face it, as much as I and countless others try to warm up to the front end design that the so called design experts at Toyota in Michigan and California have come up with, I cannot warm up to the 2013 Avalon terrible front end design execution. It is extremely offensive! It is terrible design execution! Do the people with decision making abilities at Toyota have the cahoonas to admit they are wrong, that they screwed up in accepting this poor excuse of contemporary line design on paper that looks so ugly in real form, or will they let their egos ruin an otherwise good looking car go down the tubes and make a lot of people extremely unhappy, and not buy their product? You guys at Toyota, I thought one of your main goals is to sell product, right? Well how do you expect to do that with such a polarizing, offensive, ugly front end? Don't you guys at Toyota have any common sense...at all? Yes, initially I thought the design was cool, but I made a mistake and am willing to admit it. Aren't you?

    Jake
  • nceencee Member Posts: 419
    Well not AS bad once you put a front plate on it?

    - http://www.flickr.com/photos/vonstringcaldinkal/7583263288

    Skip
  • finfin Member Posts: 594
    edited July 2012
    Ok.. so the largemouth bass caught a minnow... It still doesn't work. :P
  • nceencee Member Posts: 419
    Works better É I think.

    Also figuring Toyota isn't going to change the grill for the 2013 model, I just want to convince myself it's better:)

    Skip
  • nceencee Member Posts: 419
    I'm still hoping a painted lower grill (painted the same color as the car) will look better. I've talked about it with my local paint shop, and he's sure he can do it, and it will look nice, just not sure if it will be the answer.

    Skip
  • douglas1douglas1 Member Posts: 130
    I guess I'm the only one who likes the grill. I thought it was a little over the top at first but then I thought the Audi grill was a little over the top too.
  • ushy66ushy66 Member Posts: 366
    edited July 2012
    Thanks, but no thanks.

    If Toyota remains bullheaded and does not change/reconsider the 2013 front end/grill design, I just may jump ship too like Jeffm5. I will now start to seriously look at the competition over next 12 mos: Nissan Altima (2013 SL), Nissan Maxima (2014, when it is introduced in ~ 12 mos), Hyundai Azera (2013), Hyundai Genesis (2014 MY change due in ~ 12 mos), etc. I have been a loyal Toyota owner in past, but...the design wonks at Toyota are changing that. Even dumb politicians have the common sense to appeal to their base, but apparently not Toyota. I am frustrated with the lack of leadership and bad design execution at Toyota. Reminds me of the poor design decision-making that was done at Acura with their polarizing 'bagel cutter' looking grill design that caused many previously loyal Acura followers to look and go elsewhere, jump ship, for the last several years.

    Jake
  • nceencee Member Posts: 419
    edited July 2012
    This makes for interesting wondering?

    - http://pressroom.toyota.com/releases/lexus+pricing+2013+es350+es300h.htm

    So will the avalon be less, and if so, how much? Because to close, will have a lot of folks jumping ship to Lexus??? Is this their plane all along?

    Anything less then $4,000.00 lower, will make it VERY hard for me not to switch.

    Skip
  • nceencee Member Posts: 419
    isn't a lot lower.

    This will be interesting to see what happens. For me, being on the inside and driving 40,000 miles a year, the inside is REAL important to me, and well, the Lexus looks a lot nice, as well it should, but at a base price that's less then a LTD Avalon???

    ">http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8289/7593248110_6e6e7c20dd_c.jpg
  • kenb757kenb757 Member Posts: 149
    I like the wood in the Avalon better. But, did anyone else notice the seat styles look identical in these shots? My guess is the Avalon will ride a little softer, but the Lexus will be a little quieter. Observations are based on current models.
  • potat0epotat0e Member Posts: 12
    What am I missing?

    Lexus 350 - 36.1
    Lexus 350h - 38.85

    So, Lexus's hybrid version costs @ 2.75 MORE.

    Edmunds says

    Camry XLE V6 - 30.1
    Camry XLE Hybrid - 27.5

    So, the Camry hybrid costs 2.6 LESS than the V6.

    Aren't they essentially the same car? Same platform, identical power trains? With the Avalon, that makes 3 versions of the same car. Didn't GM get a lot of criticism for "badge engineering" the same car over and over, for Olds and Buick and Pontiac? Guess Toyota still thinks it's a good idea.

    But, the main thing that I can't make sense of is the cost of the hybrid. Can it be right that it costs more in one case and less in the other? Then, maybe it will cost the same in the Avalon?

    I can say one thing: If the Avalon's hybrid comes with a Lexus-like surcharge, it would be extremely hard to pick it over the Camry hybrid.
  • nceencee Member Posts: 419
    Not sure but I think ILike the placement of the GPS screen more in the Avalon, then the ES? But the overall dash appears to be much nicer in the ES.

    Skip
  • marv15marv15 Member Posts: 32
    I visited with my Toyota Dealer today and met with the owner of the dealership. He told me one car will be delivered to the dealerships in Oct. Then he told me something I haven't read anywhere. He went on line and was surprised that he couldn't find it anywhere as well. Well unless he has been lied to, the Avalon as you all know will be available in a hybrid version, but guess what, a RWD (rear wheel drive and an AWD (all wheel drive) for more money will also be available, no more front wheel drive. I said it couldn't be possible that it hasn't been listed on the internet or anywhere at this point, but he assured me its true. If so, they have me definitely as a buyer, even though I'm not in love with the grill. Just thought I would pass this information on.
  • douglas1douglas1 Member Posts: 130
    Sorry to disappoint but at the April 5 introduction at the New York Auto Show Toyota specifically said the Avalon would still be front wheel drive. Your dealer is mistaken.
  • nceencee Member Posts: 419
    And after 45 minutes or so at my local dealer, accessing the "Dealers Only Web Site" we (the owner and I) couldn't find anything about RWD and or AWD:(

    Skip

    PS His dealer rep said they should start seeing more information, pictures in the next month or so.
  • lntlnt Member Posts: 192
    I have always hated the seats in my 05 Limited Avalon, but loved everything else about it. It only has 54,000 so really can't see trading it, but just returned from 8 hour drive and swore that would be the last time! I am wondering if the '13' seats will be improved. Can'y really stand the grill either. Thinking about trading for an 2012 that is same color as mine that has 15,000 miles, but they want $30,000 - it is not a Limited. I know others have complained about the limited seats. The only thing about the non-limited seats is that they are so short and don't have the seat extension. Anyone have any suggestions as to what I should do? Has anyone solved the problem of the horrible seats on the limited? At least the driver's side. I think the cooling fan is the problem plus the seam across the back is uncomfortable.
  • jeffm5jeffm5 Member Posts: 123
    I just traded an 05 Avalon Limited for a 2013 Volvo S60. The front leather seats are very comfortable. They are heated but not cooled. The Volvo is very comfortable in front, but the back seat is tiny compared to the Avalon.
  • nceencee Member Posts: 419
    In-there lays the problem, resolve, issues.

    Do you buy a car with great seat for the driver, and all other seats and space, is what it is.

    There is and always will be a compromise.

    Seeing you (or the driver) drive the car ALL the time seems to make sense that you get that seat as comfortable as possible. And hope the other seats and space in the car works ok of the passengers É or the drivers seat is ok, as is all the other seats and space.

    AND OR

    You spend a lot more money to hopefully get the best of all worlds, and everyone is very comfortable and there is a ton of space to relax and enjoy the ride.

    While Volvo's are great cars, for me they are just 2 small, so I get by with the seats in my current Avalon. I say Current, because I too, hope the DRIVERS seat in my 2013 Avalon will be more comfortable on LONG drives (500 miles or more a day).

    Skip

    PS My rear passengers have NEVER complained about the rear seats, hell they all rave about them.
  • jeffm5jeffm5 Member Posts: 123
    I agree Skip. The rear of my 05 Avy was limo like. It's just that my wife & I don't need that much room back there anymore. As I've said in other posts, my Avalon was the best car I've owned to date.
  • nceencee Member Posts: 419
    Please don't misunderstand me, Volvo's (Not Ford models:)) are fine vehicles and of the choices out there, likely to be one I too, would go with.

    I travel a lot (I think a lot 35,000 miles a year), and like the space the Avalon offers, as do the passengers on those occasions when I have them. But I also like the space for carrying inventory and orders.

    My friends say I should get a truck as much as I use my car for delivering, but not if it means - Truck and no car.

    Enjoy (as I'm sure you are) your new ride.

    Skip
  • nceencee Member Posts: 419
    It appears that I can change the route of a trip, by simply touching on the screen in the area that I want to go, is it that simple?

    Skip

    PS I'll be heading out to my car to trying this and other things, as that would make the Nav a whole hell of a lot better then I first thought.

    Now I know it will pickup where I am, and if I change directions, after a while it will finish the trip from my new point of entry, but if I can change and know it's now taking my new route, this will be cool:)
  • chrispepinchrispepin Member Posts: 3
    edited August 2012
    Photos and videos are available available online
    http://www.toyota.com/upcoming-vehicles/avalon/

    All 2013 Avalons will be FWD. A hybrid option will be available. 2013 Avalon pricing hasn't been announced but expect pricing less than the 2013 Lexus ES 350 which shares the same body and engines ($36,100 for the base, $38,850 for the hybrid)
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 15,856
    Interesting how Toyota now refers to the Avalon as "premium mid size". The previous models were "large" classified vehicles.

    I really don't understand this car. It has a front end that is just awful. It's also now smaller so even more overlap with the Camry and ES.

    Have engines been announced? I certainly hope they give it the direct injected version of the 2GR V6. 300 ish HP vs 268 of the regular 2gr.

    As of right now I'll take the 05-12 version any day.

    2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve

  • djrc08861djrc08861 Member Posts: 52
    edited August 2012
    i would easily trade it in for a 2012.seats are ridiculously comfortable.30,000 for a non limited is kind of steep though
  • lntlnt Member Posts: 192
    My 05 Avalon is in the body shop now. A lady in a truck with a trailer hitch backed into me while I was getting gas at the gas station. Nice round hole in front bumper. Anyway, I drove a 2012 Avalon while riding around in my rented camry. The seats in it felt just like mine. If I had of had my eyes closed, I wouldn't have been able to tell it wasn't my car. So guess I'll get a cushion and put in the seat!
  • kenb757kenb757 Member Posts: 149
    If the new Avalon is rwd, then the Lexus ES 350 will be rwd also. Nein on both counts.
  • potat0epotat0e Member Posts: 12
    You mention putting a cushion in the seat, so I have to tell you my story. I bought a new 2000 Avalon XLS with bench seats. The driver's seat looked identical to the ones that came with the console and I didn't think to check the adjustments. Well, it turned out that the seats that came with the console had adjustable lumbar support, but the bench seat models had fixed lumbar support. From hell. Well, at least my bad back didn't like it. At all. PAIN.

    OK, I found just the right pillow and put it in just the right place and everything was fine. Really comfortable. A few years pass and I'm at the dealer, getting an oil change. Another customer asks me about my pillow and the dealer's service guy overhears my story. He steps up big. "You shouldn't pay over $30K for a car and then have to use a pillow like that." He called Toyota. The car was 3 years old (out of warranty). Didn't matter. He got Toyota to agree to customize the seat for me. He sent me to a local auto upholstery shop. The guy pulled the seat, took it apart and re-contoured the lumbar area. Didn't cost me a penny. Did the trick, too.

    I sure was impressed. Still am. With the dealer and with Toyota too.
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