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Would you care to go back to my previous post and then answer my question?
BTW, if you feel you are not bound by the manufacturer's recommendations, would you mind telling us why?
You're saying that if Glycol was contaminating the oil that 3-5K oil changes versus 25K changes would have had no effect?
I find that hard to believe. See, say you change your oil every 5k vs 25K. That means that in 25K miles, if there IS a coolant leak that your oil will be subjected to five times as much coolant contamination. Perhaps enough to cause a problem.
Sort of like if your engine is overheating. If you drive an overheated engine for 5 miles, it might be OK. 25 Miles might do serious damage.
See where I am coming from?
Bill
#1 Toyota has a sludge problem.
#2 Toyota owners are sensitive.
#3 Toyota won't honor its warranties.
#4 This topic is like the Audi badge,it just keeps going in circles.
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since Gimpy won't answer my question, i'll tell what i learned from my dad, (whom managed a toyota parts department for 12 years). when oil manufacturers say "25,000 between changes", they are using optimum conditions. that meaning that the engine is in perfect condition. it is also a consideration of an engine that isn't used for a stop and go operation, in which the engine sees a lot of stop and restart situations. think of it another way-(told to us by an Amsoil rep), if you leave a light bulb on, it should give you a service life as indicated on the package. put the same bulb through a series of on/off cycles, and the life of the bulb is dramatically reduced.
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Gimpy- i understand that your responses are an indication of how frustrated you are, but i had no intention of poking a needle at you, besides, i'm on your side. i only meant that at some time during the extended service interval you use that there should have been an indication of a problem. no matter how good an oil is, it is still being used in a gas burning engine that subjects the oil to combustion chamber leakage during cold starts, that in my opinion break down any lubricant. seems that you are going to have to have Amsoil at your table to convince the court that there oil and prescribed intervals are not at fault for the engine being trashed, and that there is a legal reason for which the vehicle manf. to honor the claim and repair/replace your engine. i will talk to the guys i know and see if anything is documented to help you.
peace
Sorry if I act like an ILL gut.
major....My drain interval has NOTHING to do with the coolant leak. Without the leak ALL would be fine. My other lexus customers have zero problems. My SC-400 & LS-400 had no problems, still run sweet.
Sold them to friends, 120,000 miles on both. Same drain intervals.
Sorry to you too major.
The question remains, do you think that someone can ignore the recommendations of the maker?
If yes, why?
Lubricant/extended interval has to be direct cause of failure to void warranty.
And it is NOT. The glycol is the issue, if it were not present, the oil would still be in fine condition. Just like ALL my other customers oil. SLUDGE has never been a problem. Toyota has the problem,not me,not Amsoil.
1. the specified maintenance as outlined in the owners manual must be followed.
2. owners may do their own maintenance provided they keep records and receipts.
3. they do not stand behind the use of extended oil change intervals, even though there are oil products that last beyond the recommended change interval.
one of the techs i talked to this morn. said the same thing i have said all along. if you change oil at(or before) the recommended interval, coolant leaks would be spotted, and the appropriate action would be taken to rectify the problem.
hope this helps you Gimpy....<:)
Time will tell.
Gimp has posted on this subject and I would just like independent verification or denial.
In this case Gimp bought a Toyota. They don't care whether you change the oil per recommendation or not, they aren't honoring the warranty if ANYTHING goes wrong with the engine and there's sludge.
It is typical for an automaker to make this move in order to "quiet the storm" if it begins to get out of hand. Oftentimes, this works. Owners are happy to get the offer especially when they are made to feel the guilt of creating the problem.
When things heat up for the automaker, and more evidence comes out to point to a widespread problem, the automaker will attempt to LIMIT its problem by finding that only a certain number of vehicles are involved...e.g. a certain VIN number sequence, or vehicles made in a certain plant.
The issue of sludge bears watching for this. "Ignorance is bliss" is the Toyota motto right now. As longs as the owner doesn't try to convince the dealership that there is a widespread problem, will he/she be assisted in a "Goodwill Gesture." As long as Toyota can continue in a healthy state of denial, will the owners be appeased? Don't know. Post your experiences.
autoresearcher@hotomail.com
It does make sense though, that if you have coolant leaking into the oil, the more frequently you change your oil, the longer your engine will last. Let's suppose, just for an example, you have a leak that puts one ounce of glycol per 1000 miles into the oil. Well, if you change your oil every 3,000 miles, you'll only have, at worst, 3 ounces of glycol in your oil. Extend that interval to 10,000 miles, you're going to have 10 ounces, and so on.
The question I would be asking though, is how did the glycol end up in the oil in the first place? Bad head gasket, warped head, crack in the block, or what? While letting the oil go for too long between changes exacerbated the problem, could an engine defect still be responsible for what started the problem in the first place?
[In reply, in #2039 you referred me to Amsoil.com's website, and called it a "stupid" question.]
I don't think it is a stupid question, and I'd like to know your answer. So here is my question again:
If the owner's manual says "recommended" (not "required") oil change intervals, do you take that to mean no oil changes are required? Ever?
Scott
27,000+ miles on my 2000 Sienna, still going stong.
I guess we will just have to answer it for him and say that yes, he feels that manufacturer recommendations can be ignored.
http://www.foxtoyotaclinton.com/servdpt.html
How does QuikTrip know if you have used their gas or not?
http://www.lexus.com/showroom/warranty/maintenance.html
Hey Gimp, if you had a 2001 Lexus and read what it says above, would you still feel it was okay to exceed the manufacturer's recommendations?
Read slowly...... RECOMMENDATION! That is all that it is. They can not MAKE YOU use a specific oil,only if it is supplied free of charge to you in the terms of the warranty. Therefore the consumer is protected by LAW.
Failure must be caused by LUBRICANT to void vehicle warranty. Glycol will cause ANY lubricant to fail..... DAMN! DID YA GET IT YET?
The GLYCOL ruined my OIL! Thanks to the good oil it went as far as it did with glycol in it. As you can see, the others are sludging up even faster. With more frequent oil changes.HMMM???
csandste...The last time I checked Amsoil did'nt come with GLYCOL added. GET A CLUE!
Glycol added by FAULTY ENGINE.
We are not talking about your having to use a specific oil or filter. We ARE talking about having to follow a schedule of maintenance.
Now, care to explain to us how you felt justified in ignoring the maintenance schedule and still think Toyota aka Lexus should still be on the hook?
Yes, Toyota should be on the hook if you followed their maintenance schedule, but you didn't.
If it is a problem with nasty consequences, it is nice that they warn people to watch out for it.
I just think they should have said on the same page what sludge looks like.
intervals were not adhered too.
for those who decided to trust their approach to maintenance, and go beyond the manf. recommendations, you are out of luck.....
Typically, the 11th position in the VIN is reserved for the assembly plant location.
In bold type: "MAINTENANCE REQUIREMENTS." Then it says:
"Your Lexus vehicle has been designed to have fewer maintenance requirements with longer service intervals to save both your time and money. However, each regular maintenance [sic] as well as day-to-day care is more important than ever before to ensure smooth, trouble-free, safe, and economical driving.
"It is the owner's responsibility to make sure the specified maintenance, including general maintenance services, is performed. Note that both the new vehicle and emission control system warranties specify that proper maintenance and care must be performed. See 'Owner's Guide', 'Owner's Manual Supplement' or 'Warranty Booklet' for complete warranty information."
Looks like someone's out of luck. Time to move on, everybody.
I just think someone should have to follow the dealer's requirements on the performing of routine maintenance although they don't have to buy a part or use an oil mandated by the manufacturer.
There is a difference between the two, but that seems to escape Gimp.
following these recommendations will also keep your warranty in full coverage.
I would infer that as effectively saying that if you dont follow Lexus' reccomendations that you also may be denied warranty coverage.
And, if you had changed your marvel mystery..err.. Amsoil every 3-5K, I HIGHLY doubt that a coolant leak would have caused sludge. Was there a coolant leak? You claim there was. If it was a slight coolant leak, proper oil changes would have likely prevented sludging.
And I think that Synthetics are a waste anyways. I just drove a 1994 ES300 that I took in on trade this morning. Oil changed every 5K (TWO Stamped service books), 195,000 miles. Car runs absolutely beautifully. No sludge. However, it is a bit of a dog cosmetically (Looks nice but lots of paintwork and bad stereo and HVAC displays and bad sunroof motor so this little $3,500 piggy goes to the junk auction).
Irrespective...
I'd like to see an actual response.
Bill
MARVEL? WHAT AN IDIOT! "
This is not needed here. Do you react this way every time someone disagrees with you?
I know that the failure to change the oil would not be an issue if coolant seeps into the engine and caused sludge, it would be a head gasket issue and non oil related. I concur that extended drains can be a problem if one does not check the oil every week or two but I must agree that coolant in the oil which caused sludge is not a failure of the oil it is an engine component failure as in gasket or cracked block. So even if the oil were changed every 3000 miles would sludge have been prevented given that the leak would also continue, we don't know! To deny a claim because oil schedule not followed is not proper to me. Especially when manufacturers play with the recommendations based upon who is paying, ie: BMW used to say 3000 when owner was paying now with first 3 years paid by BMW they say you can go 15,000 miles. Sure, and what changed may aI ask.
I think it is time to kill the debate on the glycol issue, those that swear by manufacturer recommendations are not going to alter their opinions and that is fine, whatever floats their boat, with others, I am very willing to go beyond recommendattions with a product I believe in knowing that the manufacturer must show the failure of any compnent was casued by the oil failing (not lubricating, which is different from not lubricating due to coolant in the oil. My new Buick with the oil indicator light recommends to change oil when the light comes on but never exceed 7,500 miles. Well, I am now at 8000 miles (recently changed the filter only) and will proceed to 12,000 before changing. Personally I don't care about the recommendations, I am williing to fight that battle later if it ever occurs but in my last 7 cars over the past 10 years (currently service 5 family owned vehicles) I have not had that issue.
So, to each his/her own and let's move on to sludge and Toyotas or sludge period which does seem to be going nowhere by the way!
Nothing good to add,just a bunch of smack talk.
They don't even have a sludge problem, just opinions.
And ya know what they say about them.
Instead of answering my question, he just hurls back off-track insults. Oh well.
He thought he was smart, and had found a better way to go; he was going to save big-time on oil changes. Looks like he out-smarted himself.
On the plus side, he has kept this thread lively. Call it entertainment value-added.
Thought this one might be interesting since it details a potential class action lawsuit:
forums.vmag.com/mvsienna1199/messages/88.html
Posted by Ernest Rillman on June 20, 01 at 20:05:56:
WE need to get together and file a class action lawsuit for this sludge sienna problem. Same problem as described in most sludge cases. They blamed me at the dealership for lack of maintenance. My engine only
has 24,000 miles. My car mechanic has exactly the same problem, with the exactly the same mileage and superb maintenance with sinthetic oil.
Follow Ups:
Re: 2000 Sienna Sludge Don Michaels 04:49:44 8/12/01 (1)
Re: 2000 Sienna Sludge Pat Treadway 13:20:14 10/14/01 (0)