Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
Options
Pontiac GTO
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
I assume this price was after the $2500 rebate?
Sounds like a great deal to me, given my experience. The deal I have in the works is for a more expensive MSRP, but after taking that out of the equation, it sounds like your deal, at 27600, is still about $200 better than my deal.
I would really be interested to know if he would accept an even lower offer, or if "we" have hit bottom. My dealer won't budge at this point any lower. (Maybe I can negotiate to get "more" for the deal, like one of those really nice GTO jackets?
http://www.motortrend.com/future/spied/112_0508_future_gm/index.html
With no plans to build the Zeta platform in the US, I'd say any Buick or Chevy RWD mid-size is dead, unfortunately.
Not sure about Camaro. Rumors are still for base model with V6, Z28-type model with LS2 with displacement-on-demand.
I, for one, would like displacement-on-demand in today's GTO. I'm not waiting for the 2008 or 2009 model, because I really don't care for the styling of the concept images we've seen in this forum.
I think they dress up the hood scoops some. But, I'll bet they are vinyl decals instead of paint, which means they will dry out and crack over time (happened with my factory-installed orange stripes on the 1997 Camaro Z28 30th Anniv Edition).
This is why I would be amazed if GM offered a Z28 or SS Camaro with the LS2 since they would need to list it at a similar price as the Mustang GT, around $26K. True you're not likely to buy one for that price but still, you're talking a high-end, low volume engine used only in a few places; the 'vette and possibly some caddies in the near future. (The SSR being dead meat). The engine used in the mustang is a much higher volume unit (both the 4.6 and blown 5.4 in the shelby).
If I remember correctly the LS2 is only built in the US and so needs to be crated and sent to Holden to be installed thus adding more to the bottom line costs. Ultimately this is why I believe that the LS2 is unlikely for the Camaro and why I think IF the GTO returns (and thats a mighty big IF) it will either be priced above $40K or will not have the LS2 and will also be de-contented to make the price fall more in the $30K range and still be profitable.
The Monaro has a longer warranty then our GTO does. 3yr 100 kilometer warranty. Here that is 3yr 62k miles. Nice!
Besides, I think the Gen III LS2 is a lame duck anyway. Gen IV V8's are just now starting to come on-line (these have cylinder cut-off and variable valve timing capabilities). The 6.2 Gen IV will probably be the primary performance engine for the immediate future at GM (going in the Escalade as standard; probably into the Vette soon) and there is a 5.3 version coming as well (I believe a variant of this, sans VVT is in the 2006 Impala SS). If GTO returns in 2008 it would probably have the 6.2 and either 6-speed manual or the new 6L80E six-speed auto, since this is the combination going into the all-new 2007 Holden Commodore, on which the next Monaro/GTO could be based (just like the current models).
The LS2 is NOT a Gen III, it's a Gen IV. How is it a lame duck? 400hp engine that turns in nearly 30mpg highway in the Vette, same or better then most 200+HP V6 cars. Even in my GTO the LS2 turns in 26+mpg highway. DOD gives about an 8% increase in the trucks in mpg from GM.
Of course you could just charge $40K for a Camaro and hope someone buys it.
BTW: I was unaware a 5.3 all aluminum variant of the GENIV was under condsideration. The current 5.3 is not the same family as the current 6.0 and I beleive is a version of the Northstar but I could be wrong.
As was pointed out by a previous poster, the current GTO does not carry the same options as the holden. Even so, its still hard to beleive they could ship the engine to Austrailia, install in the car, ship the whole thing back still pretty decently equipped, and sell for under $30K and still make money.
And an all-aluminum GENIV 5.3 is currently installed in the Impala SS and Grand Prix GXP. This 5.3 is an OHV engine, not even remotely related to the Northstar, which is an OHC design. This is one reason why the full-sized Impala SS can be priced about the same as the smaller Mustang GT.
Main cost disadvantage I see for Camaro is the independent rear suspension. Mustang uses old solid axle, which saves them hundreds of dollars per car. But with the less expensive OHV engines, perhaps this would cancel out that cost disadvantage.
What goes our "Forum Guru Robert" say????
Point I was trying to make is can GM produce a Camaro with an LS2 and compete on price with the Mustang? Or will you end up with a go fast motor and a chevette interior?
With the GTO based on the Holden they could have the motor, the interior, all the gadgets price it at $42K call it a Cadillac and still make money. With the LS2 they'd have to get volume up to 150K+ per year (remember Ford uses the same 4.6/5.4L V8 everywhere) to get the price down to something reasonable for a Camaro or have the base price north of $30K.
Personally I vote for the GTO. At least the Aussies still know how to build a car.
Yes, even the GTO website says so....
I guess the LS2 is only used in 4 vehicles now? The GTO, the 'vette, the SSR, and the TrailBlazer SS...
And I think there is plenty of room for three performance vehicles in GM's lineup. In fact, I'd say it's darn near a requirement to fill the market they are trying (or should be anyway) to address. Camaro on low-end, GTO in the middle and Corvette at the top, with a bit of overlap in pricing depending on option levels. In other words, a fully optioned Camaro SS might cost a bit more than a stripped, base GTO, etc.
I know that Ford uses the same 4.6L engine in both trucks and cars and the main difference is in tuning (exhaust, intake and maybe cam profile) but otherwise are identical.
I had thought that the LS2 (and LS7 is it?) were premium exclusive limited production engines thus justifying premium pricing in something like the Vette or high-end Cadillacs. Apparently they've become just another run of the mill engine with some performance tuning like the 4.6L or blown 5.4 in the mustang. In that case it should meet the cost goals of a $26K base list on a Z-28 Camaro and GM should be able to make money.
Chevy uses both in 5.3litre for '06 silverado. A 295 hp cast iron like in my truck and same diplacement in aluminum block putting out, I thinking, 315 - 325 hp same torque,+/- 5lbft..
“There are some changes in the federal regulatory standards. One is an airbag deployment standard that would require some very expensive re-engineering of the car,” says Jim Hopson, Pontiac spokesman. “Since the architecture of this car is being phased out around the world it’s not economically feasible to continue this car.”
very nice dash, great seats, good radio, but the trunk?
still waiting for the spring to see if better deals come along.
If you want to see expensive cars, check out some countries in Europe, especially Denmark - Australia pales in comparison. For an average American who thinks Mexico is to the North (45%), and New York is our capital (30%), knowing what them foreigners pay is meaningless ;-) We don't have an extensive social support network and our healthcare is not free, so our stuff can and should be cheaper.
I'm not happy with Pontiac's awful service and parts availability to say the least but if there are some nice rebates and GM card promotions in December I will go for another GTO. Otherwise, it's a Honda Pilot or Mazda6 station wagon for me... Much more practical and I won't have to negotiate with my wife :-)
I beleive the Commodor/Monaro is a more upscale line. As someone pointed out to me the Monaro in Australia is very well optioned. Even in US trim its still pretty well outfitted. Some content was probably not provided in order to keep the price down. Still, I suspect GM lost money on the car.
As to the GTO only selling 10K/yr this is more due to the absolute dis-interest (and disarray) at GM more than anything else. When Ford announced the new Mustang I think GM felt they had to do something for a short time. Bob Lutz led the effort but the only thing available was the Holden that could come close to the expected price of the Mustang. GM had no other rear drive platform in NA (and still doesn't) that would have been cost effective.
It seems that the GTO was only meant to fill a gap until some kind of replacement could be developed. Now its ending and there is no replacement except on the far horizon. GM is still in disarray, maybe even more so now. And they are still appear to be confused on if/when/what the rear-drive/front-drive model mix is really going to be. Just that the answer is somewhere over the rainbow.
We went inside, and I told him I wanted a Cyclone Grey, 6 speed, 17" wheels. He sputtered, and told me that he wasn't sure he could come up with one. I said okay, I would find one on my own. About 3 hours later, he calls me at work, tells me he found one, and then gave me the OLD MSRP, and then has the balls to offer me the car at 500 below the old MSRP. I decline, come home from work, and find 4 cars in the SE optioned out the way I want.
I call the internet saleman the next day, who turns out to be an old friend from 15 years ago. I tell him what I know, and he told me he would get back to me. He calls back, and offers me the car for 900 above invoice. I counter with 400, and we finally agree to 600 above invoice. Maybe not the best deal in the world, but given the fact that the cars are rare as hens teeth( I have only seen 6 on the road in 2 years, and I drive for a living), I am happy.
Why the GTO? Because I am a Pontiac man 1st of all. Then, I have always liked sleepers. If you take a quick glance at the GTO, it looks just like just about any old econobox out there, until you either A) See the hood scoops coming, or
As for the wheels, I have 18's for the summer and 17's for the winter with Blizzaks. Except for having to change wheels twice a year it works out fine. I've been thinking of swapping out the P235/18's for P245/18's but am concerned with the rubbing problem thats been reported. Anyone out there have any experience with P245's on the 18" wheels?