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Pontiac GTO



  • b4zb4z Posts: 3,372
    But the GT0 weighs 600 more lbs than the 911.
  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 20,578

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • The CT dealer I first saw two weeks ago calls yesterday and tells me he'll deal a GTO for 35M to 37M, and it'll be here in 6-8 weeks. I bought mine from a NY dealer, 25 minute from CT on for 31,190, and it'll be here end of Dec.

    Re extended warrany: my dealer didn't offer a GM warranty until I asked about it. He had a non-GM company warrant package lined up, which I'm not going for because: Who's less likely to go bankrupt, GM or brand X? GM will cost more, but some of that will be recovered in re-sale.

    Questions: What weight oil does she use? Use synthetic oil, and when? Break-in instructions are generic, so any thoughts on break-in techniques?

    Why waste a set of rear tires finding out that a challenger -- can't? What I need is a lamenated list of 0-60's for comparable units like the GTO. That way I'd avoid going against some of these powerful looking monsters, like the four-banger Mazda with an exhaust about the size of a drain pipe that blows you away (with noise).
  • b4zb4z Posts: 3,372
    I never raced somebody I thought was faster.
    I did beat a 300ZX Turbo up to 50 mph 1 time.
    Jumped him off the line and it took him that long to catch up.
    215 hp can beat 300hp under the right conditions.
  • if u wanted to see what the full pontential of the gto is got to this website
    we aussies have been working on this car for a few years now and we also have a all wheel drive model on the way wich u guys in the states wont have for quite a while our models seem 2 have alot more features than the us model and the hsv's have a fair bit more power to up to 300kw at the moment and 19" wheels satnav and dual zone climate contol for our fussy ladies
  • garnesgarnes Posts: 950
    yeah - keyboard racing. As for any correlation tot he real world???????

    BTW - the street start "5 to 60" for the GTO is not quicker than the 0 to 60 times. It is slower. Although for some automatics is can be almost the same as the "0 to 60 " number.

    Maybe I missed it, where did those numbers come from anyway?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    Hmmm...I just keyboard raced the GTO with my favorite used dream car...a 1993 Mazda RX-7 TT.
  • garnesgarnes Posts: 950
    A keyboard contest has a Cadillac DTS getting to 60 in 6.1 and an STS needing 7.0. Hmmmm.
  • garnesgarnes Posts: 950
    Thanks for the site link. It's fun, but there are some goofy numbers in there and the "street start" is going to be a slower. So I wonder just what is the basis. An "actual DTS" getting to 60 in 6.1? No way. Same for some other cars there.

    "factory freaks or specially prepared vehicles............I'd trust a third party before I'd trust a manufacturer's claim or magazine article."

    Could you be relating these two points? If so, you are pretty sharp. And then you see all these tv commercials quoting the magazine performance test numbers (magazine cited very small at the bottom of the screen).

    Do you have a G-tech or something that you are using to measure acceleration?
  • I went into the Pontiac dealer in my town in the Boston area last Friday. I told the salesman who was sitting at his desk doing nothing that I was interested in the GTO. He looks at me, shakes his head, and says "no." I asked "Do you have anything else to tell me?" He said that they were only making 400 (every car magazine says 18,000 a year), that they were very hard to get and didn't try to engage in any discussion about ordering one when I asked what I would need to do to get one. Unbelievable! By the way, I'm 46, I make a good living and dress nicely! I was so pissed off that I haven't called or gone to another dealer. Probably end up buying a Japanese car. Just another piece of the overwhelming puzzle of issues that GM has to fix to simply sell cars!
  • I am struggling with some similar issues. It seems that many Pontiac sales reps have not been trained in how to build relationships rather than just shove a car off of the lot. The guys that can push an 18 year old's buttons to buy his "hot deal of the week" may not be the correct guys to sell a GTO to those of us correctly targeted by GM for the GTO and/or CTS.

    For the first time in 20 years, GM has 2 cars that I am actually considering, the CTS and the GTO. In the next 12 months, they may have a decent volume of these interesting performance oriented sedans and coupes available, but they must treat those of us used to buying premium Japaneese and European brands a bit different from the customers that have been buying Sunfires and DeVilles. I really, really want to see GM succeed, but they still have lots of work to do. The good news is, they seem to be finding ways to make more interesting cars available in this market (build CTS or import GTO). The bad news is, they still need to work on many of their dealers.
  • My guess is the 400 number is for the Boston area dealers. Was talking with a dealer on Tuesday and they are only getting one this year. The salesman's reaction is no different then you would get in any other industry were they can't get you what you want.
  • This sounds like the behavior of a future unemployed salesperson in any industry. He might be flipping burgers in 90 days. If his attitude is reflective of the dealership, it may cease to exist (I think GM is still trying to reduce their dealer network). Order takers (and GM dealers) are a dime a dozen. Professional sales people (even car sales professionals) work to cultivate long-term relationships with their clients.

    If GM wants to regain momentum with the people who have been buying BMW, MB, Audi, Lexus... They need to avoid the behavior described in the earlier post. The professional sales people at the better dealerships are constantly selling their brand, their dealership and themselves, even if they don't have the model you are looking for today. GM needs to make sure their salespeople realize they are representing themselves, the dealership, Pontiac and GM.

    Affluent, educated people tend to expect a different buying experience than the shift workers at the local plant. (There will always be individual exceptions to demographically-based behavior assumptions.) This is obviously reflected in very different advertising campaigns targeting different types of buyers. This situation presents a bit of an enigma to a Pontiac dealer who has not invested the effort to understand how to build profitable long-term relationships with buyers/clients from different demographic pools. If GM is going to have a successful high-end business in the future, they need to capture the upwardly mobile buyers in their 20s and not lose them to the premium imports in their 30s and 40s. The GTO and CTS are good potential weapons in this war, but they still have work to do with the dealers.
  • mlm4mlm4 Posts: 401
    The disinterested reaction of the sales rep is typical (I have found). They live off commissions and want to sell you a car out of their own stock. If they can't do that then second choice is to try and locate one nearby. Third choice is to order one but only if they know it can be ordered. The turnover rate is extremely high and the commissions are very low. Their sales manager calls all the shots anyway. The only product training they get are videos to watch in the conference room, and maybe some hands-on training in the lot (I have watched this from the service waiting area and it is amusing to say the least). Maybe a little more for a new product but usually not until after it has already hit the showroom floor. There is no incentive for these guys to build any sort of relationships and if they can't sell you a car today (or soon) then they don't waste their time talking to you -- a better prospect might walk in the door at any minute!

    A few years ago I ordered a Tahoe from a sales rep who was still green and enthusiastic. He thought he would do better selling cars than as a manager at Target, a job he had just quit. By the time I took delivery of the Tahoe 12 weeks had elapsed and almost the last four of those were trying to track down the vehicle which turned out to be in "no man's land" in the Jacksonville transit yard. When this guy finally got his piddely commission for all this effort, he told me he would never order a vehicle for a customer again. A few weeks later he was gone.

    I suspect with the GTO it is not so much an "order" as it is an allocation, since Pontiac is determining how to configure the GTOs it builds (colors and that one transmission option) because of the lead time issues (this is what the Japanese do with Japan-built vehicles imported to the U.S.). GM still says "late December" but the year is almost out and no sign of any GTOs yet?
  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 20,578
    some retailers will be better off than others. Allocations are typically determined by sales volume, CSI scores and perhaps by performance in special incentive programs. Possibly this dealer did not rate well in any of those and so only gets one unit or possibly has presold all but one of his allocation.

    In any case there's no excuse for the salesman's indifference to this prospect, it was unprofessional.

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • I don't doubt that you are describing the dysfunctional sales environment in many dealerships. Many of these dealerships are also almost as unstable as their salespeople. That is why I place the burden of fixing the problem with GM and the dealers. If GM wants to again compete head-to-head with the more premium brands (and win), they must address these issues in all of their brands that will attract these targeted buyers.

    With the GTO, GM is clearly targeting buyers they want to turn into long-term clients. By itself, the GTO will not justify the effort to modify it and import it. It pays off big time if they can create a happy client that comes back to GM for more performance/luxury oriented cars in the future. They have been slowly loosing this market for 30 years and they really need to make major moves ASAP.

    GM is spending billions in their attempt to reposition themselves in the market. Better-positioned products (like the GTO and CTS) are about 1/3 of the story. The remainder of the fix must come by reshaping their distribution and services network. This must include changes in both training and compensation packages to encourage behavior that results in establishing long-term clients for GM. Part of the solution will probably include more Internet-enabled ways of avoiding the dealer's salespeople altogether. The changes will not be easy, but the described behavior only results in reinforcing the negative image GM has gained within markets it wants to re-enter.
  • b4zb4z Posts: 3,372
    We have a dealership where I live that started out in a rural area but that has become a suburban area for Chas. SC.
    In 2001 they sold 1200 trucks and only 70 cars.
    I asked my salesman how Chevrolet allocated them vehicles.
    He said that Chevrolet worked with them because of their situation.
    I imagine that there are several Pontiac dealers that have special deals with allocations.
    Plus they can always trade amongst each other.
  • orwoodyorwoody Posts: 269
    I suspect that Pontiac is having a hard time in the beginning with trying to allocate the first shipments of vehicles. And as said in several postings, the dealership makes a big difference. I've dealt with one of the largest and best rated GM dealers in the Western region. They are having trouble getting their GTOs promised several weeks ago. They are up front about it but don't discourage anyone from asking or ordering. They will tell you they can't promise a firm delivery date right now.
    I'm thinking things will settle down in a couple of months; several sales folk I know don't think the GTO will be as popular as Pontiac management thinks. Personally a GTO w/ 6 speed is quite appealing, but I'll wait and see.
  • garnesgarnes Posts: 950
    Those dealership experiences are sad and I've had them too. I highly suggest you call the manager/owner - whoever and share your underwhelming experience with them. They should be unemployed - period.

    I had a very negative experience at a Cadillac dealer in the recent past. I just had some questions and this older salesmen treated me like crap. I'd probably pass for early 30's, and was dressed in shorts. Maybe that was it. However, everyone should be treated seriously. I called the dealership and had a nice conversation with the owner and shared my experience and suspicions about their particular salesman.

    Some of these guys on the floor are death to GM. And yes, very few of them know crap about the car either. Pathetic. The salesmen need to be bumped up several notches IMHO.
  • fjm1fjm1 Posts: 137
    Crappy salespeople is not exclusive to GM. Last time I went car shopping the utmost worst two salespeople AND manager worked for Lexus. Total jackals.

    The BEST example of trying to work something out of nothing came about a year ago at a Honda dealership. I wanted to try out an Accord V6 coupe STICK. The salesguy blinked a few times and said "They are as scarce as hen's teeth but I can try". Some time passed and I lost interest. This past summer I found my way back into the dealership and bought a sedan instead.

    The moral is don't be a jerk. I'll never step foot onto that Lexus dealership again but I'll shop first at that Honda dealership.

    Reality slap: I've NEVER shopped a GM dealership for ANYTHING. The GTO looks enticing though......
  • Pontiac has said that allocation is based on New Pontiac sales Jan 1, 2002 to Dec 31, 2002. That each dealer will get atleast 1 during the first model year. That there are extra allocations for prime target areas and areas where Pontiac traditionally sells well.
  • My Subaru Xt also goes 0-60 in 5.3 seconds (check Car and Driver's review), costs less, and is AWD to boot.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    You and GTO buyers are a breed apart.

    Perhaps they put more emphasis on looks (they don't like SUV-looking vehicles), on that V-8 rumble, and some don't like the driving characteristics of a highly boosted turbo engine. They like low end torque and how that feels.

    Cars on paper and cars in real life are very different things, so people should respond to the real life experience if they are shopping wisely, and get what feels and looks good to them---not just by reading 0-60 times.
  • obiwanobiwan Posts: 57
    The only way to get a 5.3 second 0-60 in a turbo 4 like that is a 5,000 RPM dump. I guarantee the drivetrain won't hold up to that kind of abuse for very long. Once I get practiced at a 2,000 RPM launch for the GTO's 5.3 sprint, I'll be able to do it all day long and still drive the car home.

    That's the difference between the Subaru and the V8 pony/muscle cars.
  • No Onstar or Satellite radio as options on this car? What gives!
  • ruskiruski Posts: 1,566
    how fast does your Xt roll after a sharp curve?
  • Sorry, meant to add:

    I walked into my dealer, asked what they had coming in, how many were presold. Had six inbound, five presold, four of which had no color preference. Said I'd pay MSRP if he had the color and trans I wanted. They had to change the interior color on their incoming silver one, he took my deposit and gave me my receipt. Whole deal, 15 minutes. Sorry a lot of you are getting the runaround...and sorry dealers, but 18000 is a LOT of cars, and MSRP is the best you're gonna get from all but the most impatient and inexperienced buyers. $3000 markups went away with the Miata ... and there was NEVER a Pontiac built worth a nickel over MSRP. (well, except 20 years later!!!)
  • 18,000 is alot of cars. Unless you divide them by 12 months and 2,800 dealers. Or you are one of the hundreds of dealers that will only be getting one. But atleast you should have a little of summer left to enjoy your new GTO.
  • blh7068blh7068 Posts: 375
    "Sorry a lot of you are getting the runaround...and sorry dealers, but 18000 is a LOT of cars..."

    Uh, NOT! :) Thats a flat 6.42 cars per dealer
    (working with montana's # of 2800 pontiac dealerships). The allocations, based on the sales volume mentioned here, some will get a few more than six...a lot of dealers less than 6.

    fbrussee you got what you wanted at at msrp...I could be wrong...but I don't think that will be the case with a lot of folks who want one these cars. Congrats on your purchase and keep us up to date.

    Can anyone shed some light on this...
    I heard each dealership will get at least one...but I also heard from a fellow pontiac nut that in my area where there are 2 pontiac dealers- one is getting 8 and the other is getting none.
  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 20,578
    may not be alot. Over on the Mustang board they're talking about 180,000 a year. Even if 25% were V8s (that's probably a low %-age) that's way more than GTOs.

    I know they aren't direct competitors but it gives an idea of the potential numbers involved.

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

This discussion has been closed.