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Pontiac GTO



  • Now that you are actually building these cars...

    1) Confirm how much they will cost (including gas guzzler tax if I have to pay it).

    2)Tell us what brand and size tires we will get.

    3) Announce how many have been ordered so far.

    I wonder if 1 and 3 are related. Hmmmmmmm.
  • garnesgarnes Posts: 950
    - if launched just right, from 0 only..... And that's the one "sent" to the magazine.

    Real world?

    Real or not, I would not want one either.

    I never understood the mentality of the "pocket rocket" crowd interrupting the discussions of various boards with their magazine "0 to" numbers.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 13,726
    bet the gto will be 'a special' too. they're all like that.
    hate to keep the svx thread going but(15 minutes, no seconds, of fame?) from this site; '97 stats; 0-60 8 secs, 60-0 127 ft, roadholding .87g's.
    2017 Ford Fusion SE 2017 Ford F-150 Limited
  • garnesgarnes Posts: 950
    I don't think everybody does that. I recall an issue of C&D not too long ago where they tested the G35, CTS, 330i, W8 and some others in a comparison test. The CTS performed pretty much up to other reported numbers while the G35 and most of the others weren't nearly as fast anymore. That same issue featured the new Accord first drive and it's numbers to 60 and in the 1/4 beat every car listed above (actually all of the cars in the comparo). They got a lot of mail about it and said they got "bad gas" for the comparison test. Well, the CTS did not seem to be affected by the gas, and they went ahead with the article never mentioning this in the first place - blah blah blah. Anyway it was a lame attempt to cover for the fact that the Accord was so fast, and many of the sport luxury cars choked miserably compared to earlier "first drives". Oh yeah, C&D also claims to compensate for atmospheric conditions and such.

    So, I do think it's widespread but if anything GM probably doesn't have a clue how to cheat. For crying out loud, they're still stuck in this mentality that they have to down-rate many of their cars so as not to "compete" with other lines. Pretty stupid.

    In short, I don't expect the GTO to be a "ringer" or whatever. If it performs too good, people at GM will be upset that it's too close to Corvette times.

    It'll have significantly more torque throughout the curve than the standard Corvette LS1, but will also be 3700+ lbs which is a good 400+ lbs more than a Corvette. I guess that 5.5 number sounds about right.

    The aftermarket stuff available should be exciting too.
  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 20,461
    anywhere close to the Corvette it will only mean one thing, the 'Vette is too damn heavy.

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • b4zb4z Posts: 3,372
    Gm can throw in a ringer with the best of them.
    '96 Impala SS 0-60 in 6.5 seconds.
    has anybody ever seen a stock Impala SS go this
    '93 Z28 Camaro 0-60 in 5.0 seconds. 275 hp.
    9 years later 345 hp Camaro SS still couldn't reach that time.
    Can you say balanced and blueprinted?
    All times are from Car and Driver.
  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 20,461
    when Jim Wangers and David E Davis conspired to have Car& Driver test a Royal Oak-prepped '64 GTO with re-jetted carbs etc
    and got a 0-60 time of 4.9 sec.

    To be fair the mods were mentioned in the article but they were minimized and "zero-60 under 5 sec" became a part of GTO lore.

    The test purported to compare a Goat with an actual 3 liter Ferrari GTO, LOL!

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • b4zb4z Posts: 3,372
    There's more....
    That GTO had a 421 in it!!

    Also they used hand held stopwatches back then.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 11,077
    In todays market with such large discounts, one can get a Corvette for that price.

    Please let me know when you find a dealership that will actually sell the new Corvette for $35K. In theory, they start at $44K, but the least expensive one on any lot within 50 miles of me is $47K. If you can find me a dealer giving at 25% discount, I'm there.


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  • garnesgarnes Posts: 950
    Thanks guys. I guess it can come from anywhere. The bottom line is that the magazine numbers are often a poor place to look for real world performance. But so many people invest so much of their ego in those numbers. It's sad.

    Actually, with so much on the line with performance, I think it's criminal to send anything to a magazine that's a bit "special" and then quote the magazines performance results in an advertisement.

    I think this goes on a lot.
  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 20,461
    Wanger's confession that it was a 421, IIRC he blabbed it just a couple years ago.

    Just goes to show that O-60 or 1/4 mile times are poor reasons to buy a car. If it feels fast it IS fast enough.

    Back off Valhs! You're crowding the start line again, let her idle down for a bit, eh.

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 11,077
    Congrat, valhs. What color did you end up with? And, OK, *you* can get a Corvette for $36K, but I can't :)

    It would be great if we can focus this discussion on the GTO, rather than making it a "my car can beat up your car" discussion. Those tend to have a short lifespan, with lots of deleted posts along the way.


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  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 25,942
    can't wait to hear some driving impressions around here.

    '18 BMW 330xi; '67 Coronet R/T; '14 Town&Country Limited; '18 BMW X2. 47-car history and counting!

  • I don't know how much snow falls in your part of VA in December. Lots of HP, rear wheel drive, new car excitement, four inches of snow. Whooooops!

    Seriously, good luck and be careful to all of you with winter deliveries.
  • ezraponezrapon Posts: 348
    This board has some serious issues (snakerbill) Isn't this about cars, GTO's in particular? Personal attacks reveal volumes about one's character. I previously mentioned or compared the new GPX and GTO... I believe most of us here can make the leap between these cars. Subarus and other rice grinders are not even worth mention in this forum...apples and oranges. The GTO premise which was to shoe-horn a giant engine into a cheap small car (tempest)so every regular guy could become a week end warrior, has been lost here. Pontiac has gone upscale. A good idea this new car, but not a true GTO, remeber what killed the GTO? It was the roadrunner. Watch Mopar drop a hemi into a cheap rear wheel intrepid class car and kill off the goat again. Stranger things have happen. AND I didn't need to attack someone to get my point across, how bout them apples.
  • b4zb4z Posts: 3,372
    if the Roadrunner(beep beep) killed the GTO.
    Contrary to popular belief the GTO was never the fastest musclecar. It might have been in '64 or '65, but everyone else had caught on to their formula and had their own competitive offering.
    Not sure if you can directly compare a Plymouth to a Pontiac. Pontiacs were noticeably more luxurious and more expensive too.
    You are correct that the Roadrunner was a big success it's first couple of years.
    But that car was stripped down to the bare bones.
    And had a price too match. I'm talking bench seat, rubber floormats, etc.
    I think the smaller ponycars had a bigger impact on GTO sales.
    Camaro, Mustang, Cuda, Nova etc.
    Lighter weight was a bigger factor in low E.T,s than big HP.
    The smaller cars were cheaper too and were sportier than the midsize offerings.
  • ezraponezrapon Posts: 348
    Goats did start out pretty stripped down. The 64 tempest was pretty lowly. Only the Nova was nastier. You are right though, I believe the gto run was short and mostly folk lore. I belive Chey was doing some quick little chevelles with 370 HP 327/350's and some potent big blocks that NO gto could ever touch. Lets not forget the 442 and gs 455. I think there were some Hemi R/T's around back in the day too. GTO may have started something but it was on top for only a year or two at best. 1967 was pretty much the end of the bad boys....too much competion and too much complacency; that was the real killer of the GTO.
  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 20,461
    with help from the U.S. Congress (emissions regulations). They killed all the muscle cars, large and small.

    Then OPEC administered the coup de Grace in 1973.

    by 1974 it was all over for the Goat, the RRunner, the real Mustang, the Malibu SS, the 442, the 'Cuda....

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • There is one vehicle I'd love from the 70's or early 80's. A Jeep CJ7. But I already have a 1984 model getting a ground up rebuild. Of course, the 4 cyl is coming out and a freshly rebuild AMC 360 is going in it's place. But that's my other hobby.

    A lot of things killed the muscle cars. Emissions, insurance, styling. They all played a part in the demise of American muscle.
  • blh7068blh7068 Posts: 375
    "Try to remember a good looking American automobile from 1973. You can't because there isn't one."

    73/74 Trans Am SD-455 comes to mind real quick...
  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 20,461
    to mess up the looks of the T/A. By '76 or so it was a mess. Again the '70 was by far the best looking and IMO most desireable. Ditto the Camaro and the GTO (I had a '70 Goat convertible).

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • b4zb4z Posts: 3,372
  • ezraponezrapon Posts: 348
    The guys here are what we call motor heads. If you are not one... dont let the door hit you in the tail on your way out. More cubes, fatter tires, and neck snapping acceleration..."tim the tool man; huh huh huh yeah." Oh yeah, when it comes to not being able to take it, I recommend a long look in a mirror. BTW, the red or brewster green SD-455 T/A, the lt1 Z/28, and the 351 Mach 1, 454 vette rag top in 73 were probably the best of the last real muscle cars. 1975 was the real end of the era, cat converters, un leaded, etc etc.
  • You need to slow down a little. You're thinking faster than your little fingers can type.

    mac struted?
    loose your cars?
  • b4zb4z Posts: 3,372
    I was always a Camaro man. I have owned 5.
    The 70 LT1 was a good looking car. Split bumpers and small ducktail spoiler.
    '69 was the best looking of all.

    But most of the cars were not super fast.

    Take a '97 Z28 with 285 hp and a '70 with 360 hp and the '97 will beat it. period.

    Not sure about the SD455, but those were '73 and '74 with lower hp. Right?

    I had a friend with a '76 trans Am (400 cid)and it couldn't spin the tires without power braking it. probably had a 2.56 gear in it. LOL.

    There were just a handful of cars with the high horsepower option from each manufacturer that were really quick. Most of the others were 15 sec cars.

    Also the overall gearing on those cars is worse than today. 4 speed cars were running 2.20 first gears. Autos were 2.48s.
    Today we are running 2.66 to 2.97s in our manuals and 3.06s in our autos. That is 20-30% more torque multiplication in first gear.
    3.45s are common for the rearends today. Back then very few musclecars left the factory with much more than 2.7s or 3.08s.
    3.55s and 3.73s would have been special ordered or aftermarket.
    The Z28 did have stiffer gears but that small high winding engine needed them.

    The new GTO will be quicker than just about any musclecar. And get 2 times the gas mileage.

    This is truly the golden age of the automobile.
  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 20,461
    there has never been so many cars available with so much power factory stock. Let's enjoy it while we can.

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • riezriez Posts: 2,361
    andys120... And that brake, steer, or handle as well. Today's cars can run rings around muscle cars of the glory years. They could accelerate quickly in a straight line on a flat track and that was about it. Just compare braking distances and slalom times.
  • garnesgarnes Posts: 950
    I have to agree with you guys, this a great time for car performance.

    I just hope nothing happens to ruin it like the early 70's. I started driving in the early 80's and for a long time all you could do was look back at the 60's for power. Finally things have changed and keep getting better. I hope it lasts.
  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 20,461
    I'm afraid gas at $2-3 bucks/gal is what'll kill the current wave of high performance cars. IIRC new Goat buyers will incur a "gas-guzzler penalty" in addition to the purchase price.

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • ruskiruski Posts: 1,566
    maybe the killing will start with SUVs first.
This discussion has been closed.