Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Pontiac GTO
This discussion has been closed.
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
Perhaps they put more emphasis on looks (they don't like SUV-looking vehicles), on that V-8 rumble, and some don't like the driving characteristics of a highly boosted turbo engine. They like low end torque and how that feels.
Cars on paper and cars in real life are very different things, so people should respond to the real life experience if they are shopping wisely, and get what feels and looks good to them---not just by reading 0-60 times.
That's the difference between the Subaru and the V8 pony/muscle cars.
I walked into my dealer, asked what they had coming in, how many were presold. Had six inbound, five presold, four of which had no color preference. Said I'd pay MSRP if he had the color and trans I wanted. They had to change the interior color on their incoming silver one, he took my deposit and gave me my receipt. Whole deal, 15 minutes. Sorry a lot of you are getting the runaround...and sorry dealers, but 18000 is a LOT of cars, and MSRP is the best you're gonna get from all but the most impatient and inexperienced buyers. $3000 markups went away with the Miata ... and there was NEVER a Pontiac built worth a nickel over MSRP. (well, except 20 years later!!!)
Uh, NOT! Thats a flat 6.42 cars per dealer
(working with montana's # of 2800 pontiac dealerships). The allocations, based on the sales volume mentioned here, some will get a few more than six...a lot of dealers less than 6.
fbrussee you got what you wanted at at msrp...I could be wrong...but I don't think that will be the case with a lot of folks who want one these cars. Congrats on your purchase and keep us up to date.
Can anyone shed some light on this...
I heard each dealership will get at least one...but I also heard from a fellow pontiac nut that in my area where there are 2 pontiac dealers- one is getting 8 and the other is getting none.
I know they aren't direct competitors but it gives an idea of the potential numbers involved.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
I seriously doubt it. If GM were to offer those incentives on the GTO that would be a result of large inventory/slow sales. At 18k copies a year a large inventory pretty much would say the car is a total dud- which I dont think it is or will be.
Now I agree availability may improve once the novelty wears off, so a better deal could be had.
The person the who ordered a judge in 1970 decided for a few hundred dollars more the ram air 4 motor would be a nice option. He probably wasn't thinking about future value either!
FWIW- I have an old pontiac myself. 71 firebird esprit. Original(sans one correct code repaint)65k car. Wish it were a TA or formula...oh well.
So you can look at those magazine numbers all you want, and I suggest you cut them out and paste them to some foam board or something. You might want to share them with the guy in the GTO when you catch up to him at a light or something.
I guess it'll keep happening, but the GTO/pocket rocket comparisons are silly.
Just curious. Here in St. Louis we'll be lucky to get a production vehicle, the concept cars generally blow us off for the bigger shows.
Thanks.
I would change a few things: 1 - Separate the exhaust pipes. 2 - Use a real GM tilt wheel (Mine has the European kind, where the whole wheel comes down and goes in and out). 3 - Get rid of the power assist to move the seats up to get into the rear. As for the new Mustang, it still has a live axle. If I wanted a "retro" car that only goes real fast straight, I would have bought an old GTO or Camaro
Not sure about rebates but within 6 to 12 months they will be discounting off of msrp. Doesn't matter if they make 1800 or 18000. That's just the market position GM is in.
I was very interested in this car at one point, but between the bland styling, no trunk, and miserable experiences at more than one St Louis dealer, I've moved on.
(My grandfather used to love cruising through downtown on his way home late Friday nights, just so he could blow the doors off most of the high school kids cars at the stoplights in his '64 Buick Wildcat)
From some articles I've seen, Pontiac is going to change a few styling cues for the 2005 release. For me, much of a car's character comes from the performance and driving fun.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
I also agree that St. Louis domestic dealerships are pretty reasonable to deal with. midwesttrader, I recently had two trouble-free transactions and am really pleased with my service department, so maybe you've been shopping in the wrong places!
kirstie_h
Roving Host & Future Vehicles Host
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
Share your vehicle reviews
Dealer #2 S------ Pontiac (outside metro area); sales mgr would not even discuss the car over the phone other than to say be prepared to pay well over msrp on whatever we get in, not taking orders at the time
Dealer #3 B------- Pontiac GMC (near the airport); would sell at msrp, all but one car was presold. It was an auto and I wanted a stick.
Those were my three experiences late last summer. All three dealers acted like they were doing me a favor by selling to me at msrp or higher. None had any brochures. Follow-up was poor. Little respect for me as a customer only looking for a sale on their terms. Interpret as you see fit.
kirstie_h
Roving Host & Future Vehicles Host
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
Share your vehicle reviews
Last year, I had been thinking that my next car would be a foreign brand, but now I’m really torn between the ’05 Mustang and the GTO.
I know the Pontiac guys will say, “Mustangs suck,” and Ford guys will say the same about the GTO. But try to help me with some USEFUL comments – something I can think about in my decision-making process.
From my perspective, each has strengths.
GTO Pros:
- Simple, elegant styling derived from Monaro
- Luxurious European-style interior
- Super-powerful, proven LS1 engine
- 6-speed transmission
- Great sounding exhaust
- 4-wheel independent suspension
GTO Cons:
- Considerably more expensive than the Mustang
- Simple styling also a bit bland
- Many people think it’s just a Grand Am
- Uncertain resale value due to limited following
Mustang Pros:
- Beefy, muscular styling that is uniquely “Mustang”
- Looks great in silver with white stripes
- Strong positive response among the public
- Improved interior
- Everyone knows it’s a Mustang
Mustang Cons:
- Center stack still looks cheesy – cheap looking radio, HVAC
- Hard-to-read retro gauges
- Questionable reliability of Ford 4.6 V8
- Significantly lower HP & torque than GM’s bigger V8
- Wheezy sounding exhaust
- Only has 5-speeds vs. 6-speed in GTO (29 mpg hwy)
- Old fashioned solid axle
This is tough. I wish Ford wouldn’t wait to re-issue the Mach 1. That’s probably the Mustang that I will really fall in love with. I’m still not a fan of the Ford Modular V8, though.
The Mustang looks great on the outside, but it seems like the GTO is superior when you get underneath the skin (albeit for a higher price). Your opinions are welcomed.
Otherwise, I think being able to drive both would be a big help in determining, and that's just not possible yet.
Alot of folks are going to say its not a fair comparison because the GTO is made to be much more "substantial" than the Mustang. But, given the typical Ford vs. GM comparison, I think you're decision will be a rather common one.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
Seriously, Crispeegee that's a good analysis based on what we know so far.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
kirstie_h
Roving Host & Future Vehicles Host
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
Share your vehicle reviews
The new Mustang is retro but clean, but the GTO is nice looking. It all depends on what kind of attention you are looking for.
What's happened to them?
The Prowler was cancelled years ago. The T-bird is on the chopping block. Cruisers and Beetles are piled up on the dealer lots.
"Style" and "curb appeal" are fleeting. Once the hype dies down, the car better have it where it counts if it wants to last.
Look at the Porches. They haven't done much to evolve the style but they have it where it counts and so they sell. Ferrari certainly has style but it also has the rest of the package. The Mustang has the style. But it has a lot more under the hood than the recent T-bird did and that will keep it afloat.
What does the GTO have? The same thing that the original had. A hot engine under the hood of a generic looking midsize coupe. No one will ever convince me that the old GTO had cutting edge style. Sit one next to a Cutlass, Chevelle, Skylark, GS, and most importantly the Tempest/LeMans and try to tell me it was unique.
The GTO has what it takes under the skin to keep it around for a long time. Let the others show up and look "cool".
Answer me just this one question: What good is a flashy paint job or gaudy styling when all they see is your tail lites dissapearing over the horizon?
When I was much younger, I spent every dime I had for a used (but well cared for) '67 "GOAT" (wish I had it today).
While it's true that the General had stuffed a big engine in a run of the mill car at the time, it put Pontiac on the map as far as a forward thinking brand with forward thinking styling. Those GTOs of bygone days had hood scoops, dual exhaust pipes and wood dashes/consoles. They definitely didn't have the look of the more mundane cars of the day, even based on the more generic of Pontiacs. Further on in the GTOs development, they also "morphed" into "THE JUDGE" and sported some crazy color schemes, too. Yes, they were considered "unique" at the time.
If the current GTO is indeed a "limited production" run as GM says it is, I would think that would be all the more reason to give it more "style" than as a thinly disguised Grand Prix.
The car already has the "steak" with the performance crowd. It just doesn't have the "sizzle" with the current styling.
Considering what I see on the road today, with big flashy spoilers, big exhaust cans, flashy chrome wheels, etc. I would think the "younger crowd" would like a bit more "flash".
It would be my guess that the "older" crowd (which I guess I'm now a part of) would prefer more of that type of "sizzle" for their $30K+ large. I would also think that the "younger" crowd would appreciate some of the same. Considering where the GTO is priced, Pontiac is trying to tap into some of that nostalgia since that same "older group" will be the ones most likely to be able to afford it.
As for the Mustang having more low end power - I'd like to see that comparison with actual power curves. Where did that come from? I doubt it. The LS1 is a low end torque monster.
The problem is that you cannot develop a strongly retro design. What can you do, make it look OLDER every year?
So it's an evolutionary dead end and almost guarantees that your product line will not have brand identification year after year, say as BMW or MB does so well.
Retro can be amusing and fun, but as a major design trend it cannot hold water because it's so hard to get the interpretation right.
Probably the only viable retro design these days is the new Mustang, but we'll see about that, too.
If you start out as a copy of a current car (in this case, the Grand Prix), where can you go except to continue with the same design themes currently in place?
I wonder if the GTO will face the same fate as Marauder and Impala SS or if it will develop a little niche for itself?
I was just curious so I went to look at an original GTO coupe the other day and I must say it is still very very "period attractive". Forunately, there were other competing mid 60s cars in the showrrom as well, and the GTO stood out as quite handsome among them. Aside from a '65 Mustang coupe, none of the mid 60s cars on the floor looked anywhere near as good as the GTO. The '64 Chev was a big brick, ditto Ford and Chrysler, but the GTO has a kind of "pouncing" look to it---the skin on the body almost seemed to stretch a bit. Very dynamic styling, good job for the times I thought. No wonder this old restored coupe was selling in the mid $20Ks!
I'm not sure we could say the same about the new GTO, although it is certainly not an offensive design.
Do agree with you, the cars of the period (mid-'60s) were mostly a "brick", whereas the Pontiacs (in particular, the GTO) were sleek-looking. That is, until they went to the big "endura" bumper period.
Too much $$
Too little performance
Too late to market
I think if the car wasn't called GTO, it wouldn't get as much flack as it does. I don't think the Poncho will have problems selling because of having a limited run, but it still has the front-end of a 97-03 GP. But again, considering GM only spent a short time on the changes it still looks ok, but not to make me want one or rush right out and buy one. Make mine triple-black and 389 Tri-Powered or the sleeper one Wangers & DeLoreon built for the mag reviews with the 421SD.