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Pontiac GTO



  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    18,000 isn't a lot for an introduction vehicle, as that number is low enough to raise prices for a short while, until the pipeline fills up anyway. But 18,000 is a whole lot for a "collector" car and will drive the price down once eager initial buyers are satisfied, I think.
  • Keep in mind that the '05 Mustang will be out soon, with both a coupe and convertible offered, mega-fast, stronger brand following and retro styling. In GT trim, it may outrun the GTO, although the GTO has a usable back seat. That 18K may seem like a lot when we get new cars from Ford and Chrysler's Hemi sedan. Again, don't be too impatient (like me), since I'll be there are rebates and low interest financing on the GTO by 2005.
  • blh7068blh7068 Posts: 375
    "since I'll be there are rebates and low interest financing on the GTO by 2005."

    I seriously doubt it. If GM were to offer those incentives on the GTO that would be a result of large inventory/slow sales. At 18k copies a year a large inventory pretty much would say the car is a total dud- which I dont think it is or will be.

    Now I agree availability may improve once the novelty wears off, so a better deal could be had.
  • Gee, I hope you're right. That would bode well for resale on mine once I get bored with it and something else is my new 'must have'. I sold my first two PT Cruisers for almost exactly what I paid for them, but this third one can't seem to find a new home, and trade in values are lousy. Wonder if the '04 GTO will be worth five times it's original value 20 years from now like the 70 GTO's were in 1990! I'll bet there's dealers that will get at least one to mothball, just like happened with Eldorado convertibles, Miatas, even found one dealer with a 64 1/2 Mustang on his showroom floor, 39 (yes, that's thirty nine) original miles in Nebraska last year.
  • blh7068blh7068 Posts: 375
    Even if you get bored with it...are you sure you would want to sell it? As far as future value goes...who knows. The fact you are getting one puts you a in a good starting position, if nothing else.

    The person the who ordered a judge in 1970 decided for a few hundred dollars more the ram air 4 motor would be a nice option. He probably wasn't thinking about future value either!

    FWIW- I have an old pontiac myself. 71 firebird esprit. Original(sans one correct code repaint)65k car. Wish it were a TA or formula...oh well.
  • garnesgarnes Posts: 950
    Mr. Shiftright and Obiwan are right. What did that Subaru do in the street start (5 to 60)? Give us those numbers. I remember the first WRX C&D got accelerated to 60 in 5.5 seconds. One they got later needed 5.9 seconds. Gee, I wonder why. The C&D "street start" 5 to 60 was 7.4 seconds. In a word - ridiculous. The car basically gives up a huge amount unless "dumped" like obiwan said.

    So you can look at those magazine numbers all you want, and I suggest you cut them out and paste them to some foam board or something. You might want to share them with the guy in the GTO when you catch up to him at a light or something.

    I guess it'll keep happening, but the GTO/pocket rocket comparisons are silly.
  • Has anyone been to the NAIAS? Did they show any evolution to the GTO, like what may be available next year (heated seats, roof, ram air, etc)?

    Just curious. Here in St. Louis we'll be lucky to get a production vehicle, the concept cars generally blow us off for the bigger shows.

  • Well for me, the debate is over! No Onstar, so what. No Nav. system, so what. Ordered my GTO on the first day available (June 20th). Took delivery on 12-16, received one of the first ones in the country (Silver w/black). This is some car! I love the styling, the build quality is great, the ride is very nice for a sports car, the seats are awesome (both front & back), and it has the best radio ever in a GM car. And of course, the speed is there and the handling is great. With only 18,000 built a year I feel extremely lucky to have one.
  • Did you get the automatic or stick? Tell us more- what you paid, likes and dislikes, what you had before, and how the rear seat headroom is (where the G35 coupe really falls down). Thanks and congratulations on your new car!
  • I got the automatic. I paid $500 under MSRP (I have bought a number of cars from the same dealer). I had a 2000 Monte Carlo SS (it was a great car). I like almost everything about the car, the comfort, handling, power, and as I said, the radio. The front seats are very comfortable and supportive. The rear seats are true buckets and are almost identical to the fronts with the exception of the side supports.
     I would change a few things: 1 - Separate the exhaust pipes. 2 - Use a real GM tilt wheel (Mine has the European kind, where the whole wheel comes down and goes in and out). 3 - Get rid of the power assist to move the seats up to get into the rear. As for the new Mustang, it still has a live axle. If I wanted a "retro" car that only goes real fast straight, I would have bought an old GTO or Camaro
  • You folks are kidding yourselves if you think any modern GM/Holden vehicle will be worth more than you paid for it in 20 years.

    Not sure about rebates but within 6 to 12 months they will be discounting off of msrp. Doesn't matter if they make 1800 or 18000. That's just the market position GM is in.

    I was very interested in this car at one point, but between the bland styling, no trunk, and miserable experiences at more than one St Louis dealer, I've moved on.
  • I drove an automatic today (I ordered the six speed). Superb ride and handling, plenty fast, but the styling and rear seat access leave a LOT to be desired. Bottom line, it rides and drives better than I expected, but the ergonomics and styling make me wonder how fast I'd get bored with it. Still comparing with Infiniti G35, which also has lousy rear seat access unless you get the four door (ugh). Maybe I'll just put $5k more worth of 'go fast' parts in my PT Cruiser and wait.
  • Don't know where your miserable St. Louis experiences have been, but both dealers here I've worked with have been very easygoing, up front and eager to please! They're not all bad, you may just need to shop around more!
  • Doesn't anyone else think that the new GTO looks like the front end of a sunfire meeting the rear end of a cavalier... GM, your "sleek" styling is to boring for me. Ford stomped the firebird and camaro into the ground with the retro mustang... Why can't you learn from your past mistakes?? Give a car like the GTO some character.
  • orwoodyorwoody Posts: 269
    No, I think it looks like a Monaro... part of the trade offs with trying to get a car converted in 17 months to meet USA requirements. Style is a personal thing and everybody has their preferences. I rather prefer a vehicle that looks nice enough but doesn't attract too much attention, and has the power and performance to be a "sleeper".
    (My grandfather used to love cruising through downtown on his way home late Friday nights, just so he could blow the doors off most of the high school kids cars at the stoplights in his '64 Buick Wildcat)
    From some articles I've seen, Pontiac is going to change a few styling cues for the 2005 release. For me, much of a car's character comes from the performance and driving fun.
  • Yes, it looks bland...but like a Monaro, not a Cavalier or Sunfire! That's the price for getting it to market in under 24 months. In person, it looks a lot better. From behind the wheel, looks don't matter. This car ROCKS!
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 26,096
    just read back through this board. Plenty of discussion regarding the cars looks.

    '10 Equinox LS; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '14 Town&Country Limited; '18 BMW X2. 49-car history and counting!

  • imontyimonty Posts: 13
    orwoody you have it so right. Not only did it take 17 months to make it a Pontiac it was less than 24 months from dream to release as a Monaro. This thing didn't even go through clay models it was built direct from CAD design so it is remarkable that it is as good as it is. I am glad people who have driven it are liking it. That is why you buy a car, not just for looks. I am sure that the General will respond with changes to the next model as the experience in turning a dream to an Australian car then to a US car in in 3 years means they can probably do whatever they can dream up for the next model. I have seen how our auto industry can work if it puts it mind to it and it would freak you US guys out. we have to work with very small teams and make it happen. We don't get many second chances. I hope you enjoy the GTO for what it is a great drivers car that looks good. It ain't supposed to be a brute. That job is for the Coupe4 which is the 4 wheel drive version soon to be released here!
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 11,077
    From which dealership did you purchase, and what color did you order? I'm just around the corner from you, so I'll keep my eye out for you blazin' by.

    I also agree that St. Louis domestic dealerships are pretty reasonable to deal with. midwesttrader, I recently had two trouble-free transactions and am really pleased with my service department, so maybe you've been shopping in the wrong places!

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  • white6white6 Posts: 588
    for the first time. Local Pontiac dealer had a black/black on the showroom floor with a big sign: "Do not touch!" Car looks much bigger in person. This is not a little car. Anyone that says this car looks like a Cavalier or Sunfire needs to see one in the flesh. I couldn't look inside (they were closed on Sunday) so I will reserve my total judgement until such time, but what I saw was impressive. This car looks so much more aggresive in person than in pics. Rear window looks almost horizontal! Not a fan of the wheel style, though; just not to my taste.
  • Dealer #1 B-------- Pontiac South (closest to my house); initially spoke with a fairly green salesman who said "sure we can order one for you at msrp no higher, we don't treat our customers that way." He also promised to mail me a brochure when they came in. Never heard back from him so after a few weeks I stopped by again. This time I talked to him and another jerk who was doing the actual ordering. Suddenly it was how much are you willing to pay we are selling them at thousands over msrp.

    Dealer #2 S------ Pontiac (outside metro area); sales mgr would not even discuss the car over the phone other than to say be prepared to pay well over msrp on whatever we get in, not taking orders at the time

    Dealer #3 B------- Pontiac GMC (near the airport); would sell at msrp, all but one car was presold. It was an auto and I wanted a stick.

    Those were my three experiences late last summer. All three dealers acted like they were doing me a favor by selling to me at msrp or higher. None had any brochures. Follow-up was poor. Little respect for me as a customer only looking for a sale on their terms. Interpret as you see fit.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 11,077
    midwesttrader, sorry you've had such a lousy experience. It doesn't sound like you've been treated as a customer. I've never dealt with a GMC dealership in StL, but I know which ones you're talking about. Unfortuntely, from the TMV reports, it looks like you're after a high-demand vehicle that's selling for MSRP right now, so it may be worth a wait.

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  • Well, my dealership was polite and cooperative (M-----) but now the build date they've been given is third week of March!!!! I was told I'd have the car late February, now they're saying it's 90 days past build date, or mid to late JUNE! Shopping for another in my color (silver, red, stick) but there ain't none out there....I heard there's one in Louisville, any Kentuckians care to confirm? I don't mind travelling to get what I want, and will wait if I have to....but after driving a six speed today, I DON'T WANT TO WAIT!!!
  • Okay guys, I need your help.

    Last year, I had been thinking that my next car would be a foreign brand, but now I’m really torn between the ’05 Mustang and the GTO.

    I know the Pontiac guys will say, “Mustangs suck,” and Ford guys will say the same about the GTO. But try to help me with some USEFUL comments – something I can think about in my decision-making process.

    From my perspective, each has strengths.

    GTO Pros:
    - Simple, elegant styling derived from Monaro
    - Luxurious European-style interior
    - Super-powerful, proven LS1 engine
    - 6-speed transmission
    - Great sounding exhaust
    - 4-wheel independent suspension

    GTO Cons:
    - Considerably more expensive than the Mustang
    - Simple styling also a bit bland
    - Many people think it’s just a Grand Am
    - Uncertain resale value due to limited following

    Mustang Pros:
    - Beefy, muscular styling that is uniquely “Mustang”
    - Looks great in silver with white stripes
    - Strong positive response among the public
    - Improved interior
    - Everyone knows it’s a Mustang

    Mustang Cons:
    - Center stack still looks cheesy – cheap looking radio, HVAC
    - Hard-to-read retro gauges
    - Questionable reliability of Ford 4.6 V8
    - Significantly lower HP & torque than GM’s bigger V8
    - Wheezy sounding exhaust
    - Only has 5-speeds vs. 6-speed in GTO (29 mpg hwy)
    - Old fashioned solid axle

    This is tough. I wish Ford wouldn’t wait to re-issue the Mach 1. That’s probably the Mustang that I will really fall in love with. I’m still not a fan of the Ford Modular V8, though.

    The Mustang looks great on the outside, but it seems like the GTO is superior when you get underneath the skin (albeit for a higher price). Your opinions are welcomed.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 26,096
    you mentioned the questionable resale of the GTO as a con. People aren't exactly selling their souls for used Mustangs. So I think, at the very least, you could erase that from the list (although, in reality, i think the limited availability of the GTO will carry the resale a bit more than the typical GM product).

    Otherwise, I think being able to drive both would be a big help in determining, and that's just not possible yet.

    Alot of folks are going to say its not a fair comparison because the GTO is made to be much more "substantial" than the Mustang. But, given the typical Ford vs. GM comparison, I think you're decision will be a rather common one.

    '10 Equinox LS; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '14 Town&Country Limited; '18 BMW X2. 49-car history and counting!

  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 20,564
    What an odd combo, I don't think I've ever seen it on any car. Make mine Electric blue with the white LeMans stripes (like a GT-350).

    Seriously, Crispeegee that's a good analysis based on what we know so far.

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • ruskiruski Posts: 1,566
    GTO would be a freat moron detector - whoever thinks that it looks like a Grand Am is a moron.
  • ruskiruski Posts: 1,566
    the solid rear axle turns me right off
  • Or you could wait for the new Mustang Cobra...
  • Why is everyone complaining about this GTO. I think it looks awsome, just because you old timers want it to look like it did back in the day, let us the youth of today have our own stlye of the GTO. Besides its not the style you buy it for its what is under the hood.
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