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Pontiac GTO
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Though not in the market, I'd like to slip behind the wheel of one of the new ones, if for no other reason, to see how far the modern muscle car has come.
My long departed (and still missed) '67 didn't have the "tri-power" (something about GM brass withholding that for only the Corvette at the time), but it did have the 400 c.i.d. with the 4bbl carb. It was Gold with a black covertible top.
The Marauder was stillborn....it could have been so much more. That's what happens when the car companies only want to stick their toes in the ocean instead of jumping in headfirst.
Shifty...off topic but think it's worth mentioning, I just saw a "for sale" sign on a '72 914 with the 1.7. Sign said they'd take the first offer over $3K. It looked to be in dandy shape. You know how that goes, though. You can't tell a book by its cover.
an edgy look like Caddy's with a really retro
nose treatment featuring a recessed split grille
and stacked headlights.
CAR(UK) seems to have good sources.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
Also agree on the Marauder. Could have been much more than what it was. The wait, due to an improved frame and suspension, didn't really justify the approx. 2 year period for the car.
I'm curious too as to where the GTO design is going to go. I mean, the shape really wouldn't take too kindly to spoilers and an ground effects kit. It would probably turn out to look like an Opel/Saab or maybe a Beretta Z26 in the front. I wouldn't go beyond maybe a functioning hood scoop.
WHOA, I can't let that one slip by....the 65 Buick Riviera with the clamshell headlights, the 64 Lincoln with the longer wheelbase, eggcrate grille and suicide doors, the 66 Galaxie 500 XL convertible 7 litre, all gorgeous cars, IMHO.
Sure the GTO was a knockout, but it wasn't alone.
I have rarely seen a GM design improve with age, with some rare exceptions (Corvette and ...er...er...Corvette).
Compared to today, cars back then looked great. But the muscle cars didn't really stand out all that much from the coupes and sedans of the day. Sure, the enthusiasts could tell at a glance but they were the only ones.
In addition to being able to tell what kind of car it was by the sound of the "rumble" coming from under the hood and out the back, it was very easy to spot a performance car....even ones based on their more mundane and vanilla counterparts. There was no mistaking a plain jane LeMans for a GTO....or a Cobrajet from a 6 cyl Mustang. Even with my ears covered, I could tell the difference in a heartbeat. Hood scoops (most of the time functional), different front/rear treatments, Chevy "cowl induction" hoods, etc. There was plenty to tell a muscle car from it's more sedate cousins.
small badging to distinguish them from their ?LeMans siblings. If a Goat went by you at WOT or you were standing right next to it, you could tell it from a 326 LM but a non-enthusiast wouldn't know the Goat from a glasspack equipped 326.
Similar principles apply to pony cars and other factory hot rods until they started really setting them apart in the late '60s.
BTW there was a period when you could get
4-speed, 427 powered big Chevies and Fords in plain Jane pillared sedan (Biscaynes and Customs)bodies with dog-dish hubcaps. Talk about sleepers
Only small fender badges gave these away visually.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
We still have stylistic cars today, but not the giant shopping list of yore!!!
That said, I can remember as a "tot" riding around with my Father and immediately being able to distinguish a Chevelle SS 396 from a regular 'ol Chevelle....or a GTO from a LeMans....or a "Super BEE" from a regular Charger....or a Mustang GT from a plain Jane Mustang....or a Road Runner from a its Plymouth bretheren.
First car I bought with my pennies, was a used 68 Polara Sport w/383 HO. I still have fond memories of stomping the floor peddle and hanging on for dear life. Most of the rigs were awesome off the line and down the straight. Handling and cornering generally required rebuilding the suspension, springs, shocks, roll bars....
I'm looking forward to driving a new GTO, not only for the deja vu, but for the thrill of winding it through twisty roads and touring that wasn't possible back then. (well it was, but it was very tiring work)
I recall making a "GTO" out of the 1/25 scale AMT '64 LeMans kit. It was easy enought to do. I took a 389 from a Grand Prix kit. Painted the grilles black added small badges and splitter exhausts.
The only thing I couldn't duplicate were the hood scoops
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
When I was a kid, I'm sure I could tell a louder car from one that was more sedate. But to me they were just cars. Two cars with small visual cues like hood scoops or rally wheels, while noticable to the enthusiast, were barely visible to me. They sparked no interest in me as I sat around with the baseball cards, comic books and candy cigarettes, or even as I grew older and was more focused on finding "dirty" magazines and beer.
I'm sure many who read this and other car message boards would be in the class of people who can identify early muscle cars from ordinary cars merely at a glance. But the world is primarily composed of people like my parents. People concerned merely with transporting the family tribe from point A to point B than with the journey between. Or, worse yet, people who, when asked, only know that they want a "pretty red one". To them terms like SS396, Hemi, Fastback, etc. may as well be in greek.
Car enthusiasts are a rare breed. That's worth remembering when you try to comprehend why the GTO is the car it is today.
The GTOs gave birth to my early interest in those types of cars (and, as some say, the birth of the muscle car era).
While it may be a bit of wishful thinking on my part, it was my hope that the General would have done something a bit more to make the return of the GTO something with more "panache" in the looks department.
As it stands, at least on paper, it looks like the performance of the "new" GTO will carry on as a worthy succssor to those fire breathers of yore.
Perhaps the next generation will bring back some of the style of the originals...not retro, per se, but something more recognizeable as a purely American performance icon.
40 years later, the general is defining a whole new segment of cars with the GTO name. It's plain but it will evolve. Yet another reason why this car is every bit a GTO through and through.
If it was just a new GM offering with no name on it, you wouldn't hear any cries of, "This isn't a REAL GTO!" The quality and finish are spot on, and the seats coddle you. I think GM has a world class high performance coupe, regardless of what you name it.
Nice work, Aussies!
P.S. The '05 Mustang GT, by the way, was quite a looker too. It made the '04 Mach 1 that was sitting next to it look like a shipping crate.
The board of tourism in Oz should try to capitalize on the interest generated by the GTO. Maybe GM could offer "Homeland Pick-up," similar to BMW's European delivery program.
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The car is at Southtown in Worthing SD, AND THEY WOULDN'T LET ME DRIVE IT UNLESS I BOUGHT IT. Also, as you all can see, the price was marked up $3,500 over MSRP. Absolutely ridiculous. I told the salesman so, and he said it's the first GTO in the region, so they felt marking it up was fine in this case. He said any other GTOs they recieve later this year likely won't be marked up. Uh huh.
Anyways, my impressions.
The car is just as fine as it was when I saw it at the Dream Cruise last August and posted my pictures for everyone here to see.
It's a sleek, well proportioned car in person. Pictures seriously don't do it any justice. Exterior gap tolerances are all very tight with the exception of the trunk lid, and nothing was misaligned.
The grille and lower bumper are fiberglass, as is the wing and mirrors, the rest of the car is steel. The hood is especially heavy, which surprised me, it reminded me a lot of my Grand National.
Under the hood is the LS1, the same as it looks in any other car that's had it. The GTO covers are thick, beefy plastic, they don't flex at all when pushed on. All the familiar GM accessories are there, like the AC Delco battery, Delphi stickers and so fourth.
The trunk is very small, it should hold two medium sized suitcases, and perhaps a set of golf clubs, but nothing more.
Torrid Red isn't the same red the GTO show cars were wearing. It isn't even dark. It's bright, in your face, ticket-my-[non-permissible content removed] red. It's practically flourescent. It's not metallic either, it's flat. I don't like it, I think the darker metallic red should have been offered. But at least the finish wasn't full of orange peel like it was on the GTOs I saw at the Dream Cruise.
The doors open and close with a high quality thunk, but they don't have the heavy feeling of the old G-bodies.
The interior of the car is wonderful. The leather is sumptious, the seats front and back are prefectly bolstered and comfortable the instant they grip you. Head and legroom in the back is exceptional. All controls are perfectly placed once you know where they are. The switchgear has a nice smooth motion with no clickety clacking, and they're soft coated to boot. The Blaupunkt system sounds incredible, much better than I thought it would and the separation is theatre like. The gauge cluster is awesome when lit. The gauges themselves glow white, flourescent white, not yellow-ish white, and they're very bright. The driver information windows are large, and easy to read and adjust.
My minor quibbles are the gauge cluster faces should be offered in black with grey stitching on the wheel and shifter instead of red. Getting into the backseat is a chore too. You have to hold down a button to make the seats power forward, and the motors are *slow*. There should be a second speed to make them move faster.
Otherwise, the car is pretty cool.
Now, if only I could actually drive one. >:(
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
I just saw the GTO at the Detroit Auto Show and it looked 100 times better in person, though I have a red car now, so I wouldn't get that color. I wish they had used the dark metallic red too.
Thanks for posting the pics, though. Did you drink much coffee beforehand?
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
I have thousands of car brochures dating back as far as the 1960's, and you could buy a garden variety Plymouth in any one of about 24 colors. You name it: Four shades of blue, three shades of green, two or three shades of white/cream/ivory; Two yellows, merging into beige, copper, tan and brown.
Yep, those were good times... with the exception of the crappy quality of the actual vehicle...
I only have a few gripes. I was a little disappointed in the gauge cluster also but in the sense that there aren't enough. There should be gauges for the oil temp and batt voltage IMO. And that trunk, forget it. I'm thinking a couple of duffel bags, that's it. But in seeing the vehicle itself, there is more room in the engine bay than I thought since before I only saw pics of it in the mags. All in all, I think the car is decent.
And unfortunately, that red is pretty close to what it is.
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Mine was promised for February when I put my deposit down, now they're saying May-June!!!!!!!
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
Once you've got that figured out, you use this string, but use < and >, not the ( and ) that I have used:
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that should do it.
Host
I ordered my GTO on Dec. 5. It was already inbound as a dealer issue. It's still not here (Western Connecticut) and I've not seen one yet. Maybe it's the weather. I figure I'll live another week or so if it doesn't arrive soon.
Another GTO site is LS1tech. Not as good as this one.
Thanks trishield for the pictures.
So why is the trunk so small, on the GTO for such a big car? This car is 10 inches longer than a S4, but has half the trunk space and only two doors. The GTO is also 7 inches longer than a CLK55 & 50% smaller trunk. I guess the extra space is around the engine?
In spite of all this, I might get one, the price is right and the GTO emblems are easily removed. Maybe I can put a Saturn emblem on it?
Don
The only other problem with the GTO, other than what I mentioned, above, is the four speed automatic. The car really needs a 5 or 6 speed automatic, then they could get rid of the gas guzzler tax. I think Ford is considering a 5 speed auto on the mustang, but GM has not made any noise about creating a 5 or 6 speed automatic, which is unfortunate.
Now if Ford had the 2005 body style mustang, with a Cobra engine, 5 or 6 speed automatic and the IRS, that would be a fun car.
Don
FAST has 2 versions of a 2-piece intake that's really slick. Not only is it improved over the stock LS1, it has small notches in the lower half in the port area that allow you to open them up the ports on the intake and heads at the same time, allowing perfect port-matching. You basically bolt the lower half of the intake to the heads, make sure everything is straight and hit it. Again, this allows the ports of the intake and heads to be matched while the notches allow you to make sure you don't take away too much material. The intakes come in 73mm and 90mm throttle body openings. Add to this a Comp Cams bumpstick, roller-tip rockers, then re-reoute that exhaust so that there's a pipe on the left and one on the right and the tiger really would be in the tank.
In terms of the trans, I haven't heard anything new about the GM/Ford five- and six-speed auto. I know back in late 4th quarter '02 and again in 1st & 2nd quarter '03, they were talking about a JV to make the 5 and 6-spd auto, especially since Ford has the industrial park in at the Torrence Ave. plant and that ZF has a facility there. Add to that the fact that Borg-Warner and SPX are here also and it kind of made sense, in a nightmarish sort of way. But again, haven't heard anything since early 2nd-quarter '03.
Reason the trunk is so small, that is were the gas tank ended up.
Since the GTO only comes with a spoiler, this solution is not as workable, unless one of the other pontiacs uses the same deck lid.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
Sorry about not posting for the last day or two. I've been having WAY too much fun in my new silver/black 6 speed GTO.
First impression: HOLY COW THIS CAR IS [CENSORED] AWESOME!!!!!
Second impression: HOLY COW THIS CAR IS [CENSORED] AWESOME!!!!!
Third impression: The skip shift is really annoying. This thing corners like it's on rails. This car has way too much power. Wait. No it doesn't. These tires aren't going to last long.
Build quality is superb. Materials are top shelf. The sound system is fantastic. Much better than the Monsoon system from the old F-body.
I have several pictures arranged in a thread on another message forum. Can I post a link to that thread without getting my hand slapped by a moderator?
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